Mike Love on Love & Mercy: ‘Poor Brian, He’s Had a Rough, Rough Time’

[filledeplage]

Wow, now I am being insulted over my actual BBs musical tastes. So what if  I am not a big fan of CATP and Holland's songs, they are lacking from BW's touch.

Even ML on a good day would admit BW was the creative force driving the BBs.

No Brian involvement on Holland and So Tough?

Sail on Sailor - co authored by BW - released in 73 and 75 as a single and on The Departed sound track.
With BW / T. Almer/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley/ VD Parks

Funky Pretty - B. Wilson/M.Love/J. Rieley
Mt. Vernon and Fairway - BW
I'm the Pied Piper - BW/CW
Better Get Back in Bed - BW

Magic Transistor Radio - BW
Radio King Dom - BW

Vocals on Cal Saga - BW

CATP - So Tough

You Need a Mess of Help - BW / J. Rieley
He Come Down - A. Jardine /BW/ M. Love
Marcella - BW/Tandyn Almer/ J. Rieley

It appears that BW had a great deal of involvement on both Holland and So Tough...

Hey, SB has his opinion and you have yours.  Quit the endless parsing of album credits and learn try to learn to tolerate all viewpoints.  Facts do not matter, opinions matter, especially when repeated over and over again with no supporting statements.  I am calling for an end to needless attacks on SB's opinion regarding Brian's involvement on these records.  It's pathetic how someone would attack SB on the basis of facts.

Empire of Pure Love And Equality for All Opinions Even Those Not Supported By Facts

Please see #487 Moderator Billy's commentary above.

This is not a opinion.  It is a declaration that BW was not involved in either Holland or So Tough.

That he (SB) doesn't like it is fine.  That is opinion. But stating that BW did not have his "touch" on those albums is another matter.  Factually incorrect.

And I support GF and the other great mods 100%.  GF explains any concept as a fine teacher would.

[guitarfool2002]

Hang on, I just need to open a window to let some of this hot air out...

OK I'm back.  Show me anywhere where a poster is agreeing with Evan Landy's version of events. Where any poster is siding with Landy justifying what his father did. Put *your* cards on the table.
Don't confuse people respecting Evan's right to give his viewpoint with people thinking it invalidates the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  

Respect? That has to be earned in order to give in return. It hasn't been earned in this case.

[Mike's Beard]

Here are my cards:

Evan Landy was a paid employee who was involved in all of this. He was one of the "watchers", the Surf Nazis as some called them, who was shadowing and monitoring Brian during Gene Landy's treatment. He was a firsthand participant and eyewitness to what Gene Landy was doing.

Now, if we accept that Gene Landy's actions were wrong on the most basic level, or even to the point the various courts and legal/ethical organizations did when they acted to remove Brian from Landy entirely after stripping him of his license to practice in California...

At some point when you're witness to and aware of activities that are taking place that are on anyone's standards wrong, unethical, immoral, and even illegal, you have a choice to either speak up and act to stop it, or continue to be paid to do your job and go along with the program.

There was the issue of the over-medication and administration of certain medications and prescription "cocktails" which harmed Brian. There were other purely health-related issues with the treatments and various regimens prescribed by Gene Landy that jeopardized the health of his patient.

Then there was the legal elephant in the room of changing the man's will, which on any standard is beyond wrong, it's illegal.

When Evan Landy comes forward in an interview the same week a film comes out about Brian Wilson, attempting to defend his father's (and his) actions yet refusing to even acknowledge at least one of the key issues that ended up sinking his father legally, there is no reason to point to that interview as worthy of consideration if not - again in my opinion - suggesting the word and defense of Landy should be on equal consideration with Brian's own wife and family. That - again - is absurd.

In my opinion, someone who was a paid employee that refused to take action at the time this was happening, and decades later refuses to admit there was wrongdoing at all but rather an atmosphere of love and caring has forfeited the right to be taken seriously, if not heard in general.

We're going around in circles here trying to defend the indefensible. By pointing to the interview with Evan Landy as something interesting to consider or on equal footing with those who were actually on the right side of history, it removes any sense of weighing what was right or wrong.

If you were neck-deep in what was going on, and you saw things happening that were questionable if not wrong on a basic level (like the changing of the will), yet you continued to collect a salary while ignoring all of it and not acting on it, then to come out 20+ years later defending those actions which by almost all standards were "wrong"...

You've forfeited the right to be taken seriously.

So point to Evan Landy's words as something worth considering. Equate them to what Brian's family saw and did. See how the legal and medical oversight/regulation channels dealt with Gene Landy. Weigh all the options. Then consider the sources. And see how absurd this push to point fans to an interview which is a defense of Gene Landy's actions really is in light of the facts.

There is another legal term to consider besides whistleblower, and that's "accessory". Plug that in and see how it fits.

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

[Mike's Beard]

Wow, now I am being insulted over my actual BBs musical tastes. So what if  I am not a big fan of CATP and Holland's songs, they are lacking from BW's touch.

Even ML on a good day would admit BW was the creative force driving the BBs.

No Brian involvement on Holland and So Tough?

Sail on Sailor - co authored by BW - released in 73 and 75 as a single and on The Departed sound track.
With BW / T. Almer/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley/ VD Parks

Funky Pretty - B. Wilson/M.Love/J. Rieley
Mt. Vernon and Fairway - BW
I'm the Pied Piper - BW/CW
Better Get Back in Bed - BW

Magic Transistor Radio - BW
Radio King Dom - BW

Vocals on Cal Saga - BW

CATP - So Tough

You Need a Mess of Help - BW / J. Rieley
He Come Down - A. Jardine /BW/ M. Love
Marcella - BW/Tandyn Almer/ J. Rieley

It appears that BW had a great deal of involvement on both Holland and So Tough...

Hey, SB has his opinion and you have yours.  Quit the endless parsing of album credits and learn try to learn to tolerate all viewpoints.  Facts do not matter, opinions matter, especially when repeated over and over again with no supporting statements.  I am calling for an end to needless attacks on SB's opinion regarding Brian's involvement on these records.  It's pathetic how someone would attack SB on the basis of facts.

Empire of Pure Love And Equality for All Opinions Even Those Not Supported By Facts

Please see #487 Moderator Billy's commentary above.

This is not a opinion.  It is a declaration that BW was not involved in either Holland or So Tough.

That he (SB) doesn't like it is fine.  That is opinion. But stating that BW did not have his "touch" on those albums is another matter.  Factually incorrect.

And I support GF and the other great mods 100%.  GF explains any concept as a fine teacher would.

He's being sarcastic. Don't take the bait.

[filledeplage]

Wow, now I am being insulted over my actual BBs musical tastes. So what if  I am not a big fan of CATP and Holland's songs, they are lacking from BW's touch.

Even ML on a good day would admit BW was the creative force driving the BBs.

No Brian involvement on Holland and So Tough?

Sail on Sailor - co authored by BW - released in 73 and 75 as a single and on The Departed sound track.
With BW / T. Almer/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley/ VD Parks

Funky Pretty - B. Wilson/M.Love/J. Rieley
Mt. Vernon and Fairway - BW
I'm the Pied Piper - BW/CW
Better Get Back in Bed - BW

Magic Transistor Radio - BW
Radio King Dom - BW

Vocals on Cal Saga - BW

CATP - So Tough

You Need a Mess of Help - BW / J. Rieley
He Come Down - A. Jardine /BW/ M. Love
Marcella - BW/Tandyn Almer/ J. Rieley

It appears that BW had a great deal of involvement on both Holland and So Tough...

Hey, SB has his opinion and you have yours.  Quit the endless parsing of album credits and learn try to learn to tolerate all viewpoints.  Facts do not matter, opinions matter, especially when repeated over and over again with no supporting statements.  I am calling for an end to needless attacks on SB's opinion regarding Brian's involvement on these records.  It's pathetic how someone would attack SB on the basis of facts.

Empire of Pure Love And Equality for All Opinions Even Those Not Supported By Facts

Please see #487 Moderator Billy's commentary above.

This is not a opinion.  It is a declaration that BW was not involved in either Holland or So Tough.

That he (SB) doesn't like it is fine.  That is opinion. But stating that BW did not have his "touch" on those albums is another matter.  Factually incorrect.

And I support GF and the other great mods 100%.  GF explains any concept as a fine teacher would.

He's being sarcastic. Don't take the bait.

Not a chance... 

Just clarifying... 

[guitarfool2002]

Here are my cards:

Evan Landy was a paid employee who was involved in all of this. He was one of the "watchers", the Surf Nazis as some called them, who was shadowing and monitoring Brian during Gene Landy's treatment. He was a firsthand participant and eyewitness to what Gene Landy was doing.

Now, if we accept that Gene Landy's actions were wrong on the most basic level, or even to the point the various courts and legal/ethical organizations did when they acted to remove Brian from Landy entirely after stripping him of his license to practice in California...

At some point when you're witness to and aware of activities that are taking place that are on anyone's standards wrong, unethical, immoral, and even illegal, you have a choice to either speak up and act to stop it, or continue to be paid to do your job and go along with the program.

There was the issue of the over-medication and administration of certain medications and prescription "cocktails" which harmed Brian. There were other purely health-related issues with the treatments and various regimens prescribed by Gene Landy that jeopardized the health of his patient.

Then there was the legal elephant in the room of changing the man's will, which on any standard is beyond wrong, it's illegal.

When Evan Landy comes forward in an interview the same week a film comes out about Brian Wilson, attempting to defend his father's (and his) actions yet refusing to even acknowledge at least one of the key issues that ended up sinking his father legally, there is no reason to point to that interview as worthy of consideration if not - again in my opinion - suggesting the word and defense of Landy should be on equal consideration with Brian's own wife and family. That - again - is absurd.

In my opinion, someone who was a paid employee that refused to take action at the time this was happening, and decades later refuses to admit there was wrongdoing at all but rather an atmosphere of love and caring has forfeited the right to be taken seriously, if not heard in general.

We're going around in circles here trying to defend the indefensible. By pointing to the interview with Evan Landy as something interesting to consider or on equal footing with those who were actually on the right side of history, it removes any sense of weighing what was right or wrong.

If you were neck-deep in what was going on, and you saw things happening that were questionable if not wrong on a basic level (like the changing of the will), yet you continued to collect a salary while ignoring all of it and not acting on it, then to come out 20+ years later defending those actions which by almost all standards were "wrong"...

You've forfeited the right to be taken seriously.

So point to Evan Landy's words as something worth considering. Equate them to what Brian's family saw and did. See how the legal and medical oversight/regulation channels dealt with Gene Landy. Weigh all the options. Then consider the sources. And see how absurd this push to point fans to an interview which is a defense of Gene Landy's actions really is in light of the facts.

There is another legal term to consider besides whistleblower, and that's "accessory". Plug that in and see how it fits.

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

There were numerous people on this board suggesting Evan Landy's words are worth considering equally to the facts already on the table and listed in numerous legal documents and court filings. There is also a concept of giving tacit approval through actions and words, and trying to elevate this tabloid interview beyond what it really is feels like a case of that.

Just to restate, it's hard for me to respect a viewpoint or personal account that refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing at all, and I surely wouldn't try to defend it or point other readers to those words for consideration.

[Cam Mott]

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

What? I don't endorse anything Evan said, I called Landy a criminal more than once in this thread alone, but even he (criminals) has a right to be heard imo.

I said Mike mentioned it as something he HAD seen related to the movie (as opposed to the questions about the movie which he hadn't seen) and as has been pointed out repeatedly Mike is on the record condemning Landy. Thinking it is interesting or should be heard is not an endorsement.

[Mike's Beard]

There were numerous people on this board suggesting Evan Landy's words are worth considering equally to the facts already on the table and listed in numerous legal documents and court filings. There is also a concept of giving tacit approval through actions and words, and trying to elevate this tabloid interview beyond what it really is feels like a case of that.

Just to restate, it's hard for me to respect a viewpoint or personal account that refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing at all, and I surely wouldn't try to defend it or point other readers to those words for consideration.

But the thing is Evan was there for all those years so ultimately no matter how bias, one sided, selective, damage controlling or self serving his recollections may be they are still of interest for anybody with an interest in this case. It's down to the reader to decide their worth.

[Mike's Beard]

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

What? I don't endorse anything Evan said, I called Landy a criminal more than once in this thread alone, but even he (criminals) has a right to be heard imo.

I said Mike mentioned it as something he HAD seen related to the movie (as opposed to the questions about the movie which he hadn't seen) and as has been pointed out repeatedly Mike is on the record condemning Landy. Thinking it is interesting or should be heard is not an endorsement.

I think you've misread what I said Cam. I'm not saying you agree with the Landys at all. I said you may not think Mike was in the wrong to bring up Evan's interview when talking about the film.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Wow, now I am being insulted over my actual BBs musical tastes. So what if  I am not a big fan of CATP and Holland's songs, they are lacking from BW's touch.

Even ML on a good day would admit BW was the creative force driving the BBs.

No Brian involvement on Holland and So Tough?

Sail on Sailor - co authored by BW - released in 73 and 75 as a single and on The Departed sound track.
With BW / T. Almer/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley/ VD Parks

Funky Pretty - B. Wilson/M.Love/J. Rieley
Mt. Vernon and Fairway - BW
I'm the Pied Piper - BW/CW
Better Get Back in Bed - BW

Magic Transistor Radio - BW
Radio King Dom - BW

Vocals on Cal Saga - BW

CATP - So Tough

You Need a Mess of Help - BW / J. Rieley
He Come Down - A. Jardine /BW/ M. Love
Marcella - BW/Tandyn Almer/ J. Rieley

It appears that BW had a great deal of involvement on both Holland and So Tough...

Hey, SB has his opinion and you have yours.  Quit the endless parsing of album credits and learn try to learn to tolerate all viewpoints.  Facts do not matter, opinions matter, especially when repeated over and over again with no supporting statements.  I am calling for an end to needless attacks on SB's opinion regarding Brian's involvement on these records.  It's pathetic how someone would attack SB on the basis of facts.

Empire of Pure Love And Equality for All Opinions Even Those Not Supported By Facts

Please see #487 Moderator Billy's commentary above.

This is not a opinion.  It is a declaration that BW was not involved in either Holland or So Tough.

That he (SB) doesn't like it is fine.  That is opinion. But stating that BW did not have his "touch" on those albums is another matter.  Factually incorrect.

And I support GF and the other great mods 100%.  GF explains any concept as a fine teacher would.

He's being sarcastic. Don't take the bait.

Who is bring sarcastic. ..me?

[Mike's Beard]

No, Empire of Love.

[Cam Mott]

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

What? I don't endorse anything Evan said, I called Landy a criminal more than once in this thread alone, but even he (criminals) has a right to be heard imo.

I said Mike mentioned it as something he HAD seen related to the movie (as opposed to the questions about the movie which he hadn't seen) and as has been pointed out repeatedly Mike is on the record condemning Landy. Thinking it is interesting or should be heard is not an endorsement.

I think you've misread what I said Cam. I'm not saying you agree with the Landys at all. I said you may not think Mike was in the wrong to bring up Evan's interview when talking about the film.

Apologies. Yes, I don't think it is wrong to bring it up or discuss it. What Landy did was criminal and I join with Mike and anyone else in condemning him and his activity.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

No, Empire of Love.

Ahhh, ok.

[Empire Of Love]

But nobody here is disagreeing with any of that with the possible exception of Cam not thinking Mike was wrong to mention Evan as a valid counterpoint to Melinda's side.

What? I don't endorse anything Evan said, I called Landy a criminal more than once in this thread alone, but even he (criminals) has a right to be heard imo.

I said Mike mentioned it as something he HAD seen related to the movie (as opposed to the questions about the movie which he hadn't seen) and as has been pointed out repeatedly Mike is on the record condemning Landy. Thinking it is interesting or should be heard is not an endorsement.

I think you've misread what I said Cam. I'm not saying you agree with the Landys at all. I said you may not think Mike was in the wrong to bring up Evan's interview when talking about the film.

Apologies. Yes, I don't think it is wrong to bring it up or discuss it. What Landy did was criminal and I join with Mike and anyone else in condemning him and his activity.

I would probably join with Mike in condemning it (if he reverts to his prior position of doing so, if not then I probably won't).

[Empire Of Love]

In all seriousness people, I need some help with a domestic squabble.  Ten years ago I told my wife I would always love her.  I made it very clear.  She asked me if I love her and I said yes.  She then asked me if I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, I said, hell yeah!.  But the funniest thing happened earlier today.  She asked me the same questions all these years later.  I was thinking of this thread and I answered accordingly.  Now I'm in trouble.  Here is how it went down:

Wife: do you want to go out to eat tonight?
EoL: yes
Wife: Oh good, I was hoping you would say that, I don't feel like cooking tonight.  Do you want to go to our favorite restaurant?
EoL: hells to the yeah!
Wife: do you love me?
EoL: (strange question but I answer accordingly): probably
Wife (with an unexplainable look of confusion): do you want to spend the rest of your life with me?
EoL: probably

And then she lost it.  She asked me what is wrong and why I'm not certain I still love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her.  I tried to explain that "probably" and "yes" have the same meaning.  She gave me some mumbo jumbo from the dictionary about the meaning of probably and how that contrasted with the certainty of "yes" and "hells to the yeah".  I tried explaining that my position was the same as it was ten years ago.  I've told her over and over for years that I love her and that I am still saying the same thing.  She said "so then you do still love me?".  To which I replied, "probably".  She broke down in tears questioning how I could call myself Empire of Love when my love for her is only probable and not certain.  I even tried explaining that she was just parsing words and that I felt she was bullying me, but nothing worked.

I thought I had a handle on all of this after reading through the arguments from filledpledge and Cam, but she doesn't seem to understand that my position hasn't changed from ten years ago, last week, etc.

Could someone help me understand where the miscommunication is coming from?   I could just admit I'm wrong and tell her I love her, I mean use the actual words, but then I would be doing so out of feeling bullied, so I'm not sure I want to go that route.  If anyone has any advice, please, I need help.

EoL

[Douchepool]

Your wife's a lost cause. Run and take all the valuables.

[Empire Of Love]

Your wife's a lost cause. Run and take all the valuables.

Point taken, but I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll probably stick around.



EoL

[Mike's Beard]

Any man that hasn't got the balls to get married at least five times isn't a real man. Probably.

[Douchepool]

Any man that hasn't got the balls to get married at least five times isn't a real man. Probably.

He's probably not a Doctor of Love.

[Cam Mott]

Your answer was correct and showed your continuing commitment to her, just explain to her she should have asked if you "wanted spend the rest of her life with her". Then duck.

[Douchepool]

There's probably going to be a long litigation in his future. He might end up on the world's longest carnival circuit with the alimony payments he'll have to make. Have the mic stands ready. They'll need a lot of adjusting.

[Empire Of Love]

Your answer was correct and showed your continuing commitment to her, just explain to her she should have asked if you "wanted spend the rest of her life with her". Then duck.

Cam, a more appropriate response from you would've been, uncle.

[Cam Mott]

Your answer was correct and showed your continuing commitment to her, just explain to her she should have asked if you "wanted spend the rest of her life with her". Then duck.

Cam, a more appropriate response from you would've been, uncle.

Back at ya.

[Douchepool]

Auntie EoL and Uncle Cam need to get a room.

[Dave in KC]

I think Mike probably agreed to do the C50 tour to help jump start his reputation rehabilitation in the rock world. I'm sure he thought about the ramifications of nixing it and that outcome was not acceptable. But now look what he has done. One step forward, two back.