Spanish Guitar/Secret Smile "Untitled Instrumental"

[Andrew G. Doe]

He declined to comment. I think I'm entitled to form an opinion from that.

Then be upfront and indicate that it's simply you're opinion, not fact. 

I have to ask this - is English your first language ?  Look at what I wrote again, this time carefully.

"I think I'm entitled to form an opinion from that."

"I'm", meaning me, not you, not anyone else, just me... "opinion", the very word you requested I use.

Btw, in this context it's "your", not "you're".

[Beach Head]

Yes, this time you stated it's your opinion.  In the past, you haven't been so guarded, instead stating as fact that Brad was involved in putting out the first SMILE boot.

As for why I'm so convinced he wasn't ... When that boot came out, he was unable to find a copy after hearing about it through the fan grapevine.  I went out and bought and shipped 2 copies to him, as I could find them easily at a local shop.  Why would he need somebody to do that if he was the guy who made them?

[runnersdialzero]

TIRED OF BUTTFUCK

[Jason]

TIRED OF BUTTFUCK

You sure love that word, don't you?

[runnersdialzero]

TIRED OF BUTTFUCK

You sure love that word, don't you?

Be nice to me. Day's been hard and I'm so tired and this shirt irritated my nipples to the point that they're red and extremely sore.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yes, this time you stated it's your opinion.  In the past, you haven't been so guarded, instead stating as fact that Brad was involved in putting out the first SMILE boot.

As for why I'm so convinced he wasn't ... When that boot came out, he was unable to find a copy after hearing about it through the fan grapevine.  I went out and bought and shipped 2 copies to him, as I could find them easily at a local shop.  Why would he need somebody to do that if he was the guy who made them?

Same reason as I've postulated regarding the 'outing' of the Davis track - good cover. Also, I find it very difficult to believe that Brad Elliott, who was at the top of the fan tree in 1983, couldn't lay hands on a copy of a new US boot. I managed it with little trouble, and I live in England.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Also..."Peter lies"...? I think those of us who have talked with him over the years beg to differ, as *nobody* here but you, Bra-uh..."Beach Head" would question his integrity.

[Beach Head]

I find it very difficult to believe that Brad Elliott, who was at the top of the fan tree in 1983, couldn't lay hands on a copy of a new US boot.

Since boots weren't exactly the kind of thing stocked in every corner record store, they could be quite difficult to find at times, depending upon where you live.  Distribution could be quite spotty.  Something available on the East Coast might never show up on the West Coast, and vice-versa.  And the heartland of the country was always the worst!  Brad moved around quite a bit in the '80s and '90s, and there certainly were times when he had to rely on others to find him the latest stuff.  Not only me, but you could check with a certain athletic-type up in the Pacific Northwest to verify that.  (If you don't know who I mean, AGD, I'll gladly PM you the name.)

[Beach Head]

Bra-uh..."Beach Head"

Hey, Fear.  You're a moderator, right?  Surely you can look up my profile and see my e-mail address (though a real ISP, not a gmail or hotmail account), and my real name is right there in it -- and it's not Brad Elliott.  So cut out the insinuations!  I'm just a long-time fan and collector, who's seen a lot of stuff go down over all the years I've been on the sidelines.

[Andrew G. Doe]

you could check with a certain athletic-type up in the Pacific Northwest to verify that.  (If you don't know who I mean, AGD, I'll gladly PM you the name.)

I know who you mean, but right now I'm not going to bother him: he's got a lot on his plate and doesn't need this kind of frippery as well.

[B-Rex]

This heated discussion is really warming the cockles of my heart.

Thanks for keeping it professional...and very entertaining!

[Andrew G. Doe]

I find it very difficult to believe that Brad Elliott, who was at the top of the fan tree in 1983, couldn't lay hands on a copy of a new US boot.

Since boots weren't exactly the kind of thing stocked in every corner record store, they could be quite difficult to find at times, depending upon where you live.  Distribution could be quite spotty.  Something available on the East Coast might never show up on the West Coast, and vice-versa.  And the heartland of the country was always the worst!  Brad moved around quite a bit in the '80s and '90s, and there certainly were times when he had to rely on others to find him the latest stuff.  

I repeat - I live in England and back in 1983, I laid hands of first pressing copies of the Smile I, Landlocked & Made in USA (complete with 3D chimp) boots with the minimum of trouble... and back then the fan circuit was just as active - just not as fast in those pre-internet days. Were I pressing up such items, the first thing I'd do would be to mail 'review' copies to the name fans of the day. If you're in the loop, these things tend to fall into your lap. So, sorry, but that excuse doesn't pass muster.

And, much as I don't want to resort to the "he did too !" level of exchange, labelling Peter as a liar while defending Brad Elliott is a little rich as, aside from repeatedly lying to the investors in his various unrealised projects, he made some off the record claims about fellow fans that were as untrue as they were unpleasant.

Finally, here's a prime reason why I tend to regard certain things Brad has claimed as dubious in the extreme. When he was being pursued by fans trying to reclaim the bucks they'd sent him for First Wave, or one of the books, he stated that he'd been admitted to hospital for a renal complaint and that the medication prescribed had induced a heart attack. Now, I've had a similar condition since 1975, but just to be sure I asked my doctor about it, and he assured me that there is no known medication for this condition that could possibly induce a cardiac arrest. Further, knowing how litigious the US medical sector is, I cannot see any doctor administering any medication without first (i) explaining the possible consequences (and getting a waiver signed): and (ii) doing a battery of tests and background checks. Again, it just doesn't wash.

Do I still believe Brad was the source for those boots (and probably some others of recent vintage) ?  Yes, because enough folk had told me that was the case, and because I gave him the chance to deny it, and he passed on it. A good lawyer in court would have a field day with that.

[The Shift]

FYI, when I last talked with him (admittedly, a couple of years ago), Brad was sporadically sending out reimbursements as he was able.

Did he tell you this himself? Great stuff -  I'm really looking forward to receiving my refund real soon!

[Andrew G. Doe]

He got saddled with over $40,000 in legal expenses when Bruce Morgan and Original Sound sold him a bill of goods when he licensed the Hite Morgan tapes for release and then got him sucked into The Beach Boys' lawsuit against them!  At the time I talked with him, the damn case was still bouncing around the court system and still racking up lawyers' fees for him!

Just to prove I'm not a complete bastard, in this respect Brad has had a totally raw deal - he completely legally licensed the tapes from Bruce Morgan, and in any event, those tracks have been on literally hundreds of compilations (often low budget) since 1969 and the band didn't say word one... then suddenly they're claiming they own the tapes (wrong - Hite Morgan bankrolled the sessions) and also claiming something like $80 million in lost royalties on those sales. Excuse me ??!! No way are those handful of primitive recordings responsible for that much income.  I've heard it said that the suit was brought with malice aforethought, as an example. It's possible.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Sounds like karma to me.

[Jonas]

lol billywheres that quote from??

[Beach Head]

Well, I obviously opened a can of worms!  My apologies to all.

For what it's worth, though, I'm certain that Brad had nothing to do with any of the SMILE bootlegs.  I think several people, one of whom I pointed AGD to (and I understand his reluctance to contact said person), can attest to the fact that they had to secure copies of various boots for Brad back in the day.  I certainly can; I know there were others.

The only boots I ever knew Brad had anything to do with -- and that was inadvertant -- were those terribly cheap "Bamboo" and "Brian Love You" records.  He was upfront that those were made (without his prior knowledge) from tapes he'd compiled for a circle of friends/fans/collectors.  (Compare that to the fact that Peter Reum was the one who actually pressed the legendary long-ago "Beach Boys Collectors Series" boots.)

On the other topic that AGD raised, I don't know all the details of Brad's medical problems, but I do know that he was quite ill for an extended period of time.  When I last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems, undergoing lithotripsy (sp?) literally every month, having had something like two dozen kidney stones in a year.  I would think that it's very possible that such a chronic condition could tax a body sufficiently to cause cardiac problems, but hey, I'm not a doctor, so what do I know?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

lol billywheres that quote from??

This board! I can't even remember who posted it, but I thought it was hilarious.

[Andrew G. Doe]

On the other topic that AGD raised, I don't know all the details of Brad's medical problems, but I do know that he was quite ill for an extended period of time.  When I last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems, undergoing lithotripsy (sp?) literally every month, having had something like two dozen kidney stones in a year.  I would think that it's very possible that such a chronic condition could tax a body sufficiently to cause cardiac problems, but hey, I'm not a doctor, so what do I know?

Lithotripsy is correct. I've had it - ultrasound is used to break up the stones. It's not at all pleasant, like being repeatedly punched in the kidneys. Much preferable to kidney stones, however.

But... fact is, he told several people (and I believe posted it on an MB) that it was the medication that caused his heart attack - and that's just not possible.

[Mr. Cohen]

This board! I can't even remember who posted it...

Me, me, me! Let's talk about how great I am some more!

[The Shift]

FYI, when I last talked with him (admittedly, a couple of years ago), Brad was sporadically sending out reimbursements...

When I last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems...

Now I'm really confused about those reimbursements... I guess they didn't start as recently as I first imagined!
 

[Beach Head]

Couple, several ... hell, I don't remember precisely when I talked to him!  I don't keep a diary, and I've long since tossed out the long distance phone bills from that time.  My best guess is that it was some time in 2007, but it may have been a year earlier.  Too much has gone down in my life since.

[Beach Head]

fact is, he told several people (and I believe posted it on an MB) that it was the medication that caused his heart attack - and that's just not possible.

I'm not sure I would be so quick to state that as fact.  I'm certainly not a doctor, but these days anybody with Internet access can be an "armchair physician."

Googling information on kidney problems, especially kidney stones, reveals that one of the most common kinds of meds prescribed in connection with them are NSAIDs (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) -- for pain.  If the pain is severe enough, prescription-strength NSAIDs are given.  One category of prescription NSAIDs is COX-2 inhibitors.  Back in 2004-2005, a number of such meds were withdrawn from the market, either by the manufacturer or by order of the FDA, because of (quoting from the Wikipedia article on Valdecoxib) "concerns about possible increased risk of heart attack and stroke."  Some of the brand names of NSAIDs removed included Vioxx, Ceoxx and Bextra.

Now I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds, but the time frame seems about right.  As to a possible malpractice claim if he had been and then suffered a heart attack, the Wikipedia article on Rofecoxib (Vioxx) notes that more than 10,000 cases and 190 class actions have been filed against Merck (the manufacturer) "over adverse cardiovascular events associated with Rofecoxib and the adequacy of Merck's warnings." However, the history of litigation that's cited is mixed and not clear-cut.  Of the six cases that are specifically discussed in the article, plaintiffs have won only two, while Merck has successfully defended against four.  So, even when there's a goodly amount of evidence against the drug and its manufacturer, it's no sure thing that a malpractice claim will prevail.  For all we know, Brad's one of the claims and even part of a class action suit, and he may be in limbo, like so many apparently are, waiting to see what comes of it.

[Beach Head]

One more piece of information (quoted from Wikipedia):

"FDA analysts estimated that Vioxx caused between 88,000 and 139,000 heart attacks, 30 to 40 percent of which were probably fatal, in the five years the drug was on the market."

[Beach Head]

And this sad piece of news from last September:

The claims administrator (read: law firm) handling the claims for settlement has reviewed 48,507 claims - and rejected 40 percent of them!

Winning in a malpractice case is no sure thing.