Guess You Had To Be There

[CenturyDeprived]

Not to derail things too much here, but are you familiar with the piece CenturyDeprived is referencing?

Yes I did read it. But there's two things that bug me: First, CentDep postulates Mike's behavior when he gets to benefit himself from using Autotune and takes that as further evidence of how low down a person Mike is. Had he actually found an interview in which Mike praises Autotune, CentDep would have a legit point, but in fact he just imagines a scenario. Second, it has nothing to do with the ongoing discussion at all. He only brings the subject up to accuse Mike once more. That's what gets on my nerves. Good that Pinder didn't read that, this thread would derail instantly.

I'm with Micha. Why on earth should the fact that Mike is supposedly unable of praising NPP be brought up in this thread?

It's not random and for no reason other than to "bash" Mike, as some people would like to think. And now for some reason, we're debating my right (and others' rights) to dare mention specific items in particular threads as they relate, however peripherally, to the thread at hand. Someone else brought up autotune as it related to Mike. I replied with my take on that, and apologies if it got too off on a tangent, but my true wish (which I'll restate as lightly and refraining from "bashing" as much as possible, as I am guilty of sarcasm in some posts) is that I wish all the BBs would take an anti-autotune stance, or at least a stance against the overuse of autotune, and **not just when it suits their own political needs within the context of the band itself**. I think I have every right to mention it, sorry if my sarcasm got out of hand since I feel strongly about Mike's autotune mention being way uncool in its original interview context. The only thing less cool than that is the very overuse of autotune itself. Hope that clears things up. That is all.

[Micha]

And now for some reason, we're debating my right (and others' rights) to dare mention specific items in particular threads as they relate, however peripherally, to the thread at hand.

No we're not. You have the right to invent scenarios, derail internet forum threads, and annoy people, as long as you don't get into conflict with legislation, but you don't HAVE to do it.

[GoodVibrations33]

4.  The link from Esquire seems to have gone away.

Still there, still working. Listening to it now.

It's on the VEVO youtube channel now too:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgSU2rnMR_k

[HeyJude]

While I would hope that if we all tried saying things like “it sounds like….” or “I think….” rather than “it is…” that it would eliminate the arguments/debates, I fear it probably wouldn’t. For me, I do make the assumption that most folks here weren’t there when the stuff was mixed, so I think it’s kind of implicit in any discussion that we know we don’t know much of anything for certain.

I just weigh all the available evidence accordingly, and given everything we know, I find it very difficult to eliminate the possibility of autotune to the point of not even raising it as a topic for discussion. I also weigh opinions accordingly, and also look at the internal logic of those opinions. Sometimes experts who know their s**t offer some very tenuous assertions in terms of logic. Anything to do with audio (to say nothing of music as an art) is almost painfully subjective; sometimes I’m amazed discussions can be had on the topic at all. I think we do pretty well here.

I also think autotune is a bit like those “invisible eye” 3D posters that became trendy in the 90s; I think some people simply aren’t seeing/hearing the effect. That makes discussion on the topic even more difficult and potentially divisive, as I suspect some who don’t hear the anomalies that result from digital pitch correction are still weighing in on the discussion.

I also don’t think those who bring it up are trying to flame or troll (or whatever the current lingo is). In most cases, they’re fans to the point of being interested enough to preview a BW track on the web and go to a message board and talk about it. It’s not a terribly popular thing to do apparently to suggest autotune. They seem to get criticism from multiple angles; there’s the “there’s no autotune because….” argument, as well as the “so what if autotune is on it?” argument, as well as the “I don’t know wtf autotune is and I don’t care” argument.  So I don’t mind if people have some b***s and stick up for their simple opinion. I also think sometimes what appears to be certitude (e.g “now *this* has autotune”) is more just a case of putting stylistic emphasis on what is inherently nothing more than an opinion. I know the person that says “this has autotune!” wasn’t there and doesn’t really know for certain.

[CenturyDeprived]

And now for some reason, we're debating my right (and others' rights) to dare mention specific items in particular threads as they relate, however peripherally, to the thread at hand.

No we're not. You have the right to invent scenarios, derail internet forum threads, and annoy people, as long as you don't get into conflict with legislation, but you don't HAVE to do it.

I'm legitimately sorry if I annoyed you, and/or derailed the thread, and that was not my intent.  I've admitted I went too far with the sarcasm. At least I was talking about members of this band; real derailing would be if I started talking about something with zero connection to the band. One could also argue that getting into a long public discussion of thread postings (in and of itself, like this discussion of yours I'm replying to) is much more annoying than any derailing I may have inadvertently done.

[startBBtoday]

Can anyone point to a specific part of Kacey's vocals when they're hearing autotune? Because I don't hear it at all. She sounds multi-tracked with a digital reverb.

[HeyJude]

1.  Brian was one of the first to pioneer the use of new studio technology - always pushing the envelope.  Whatever the tools.  Decades ago he'd cut vocals in a lower key and speed them up to make the voices sound younger, something the Beach Boys have continued to do (California Dreamin).  All kinds of tricks at play in Smile and everything else.  While I take exception to auto-tune on the recent live album (the live version of Don't Back Down wins the award for the worst BB live recording ever), if it's at play here, I don't care.

 *If* Brian was/is using autotune, I would argue he's probably not “pioneering” the use of it. It has been in heavy use for 10-15 years now.

And that may well be a small part of the unspoken subtext of some of these debates on the topic. Some people feel that implicit in the use of autotune (or, on the other side of the debate, that implicit in the accusation of the use of autotune) is that Brian would in this scenario be a follower, using something that was initially used in the industry to cover up for mediocre singers and which has subsequently become an overused, trendy effect. Let me be clear, I’m not prepared to lodge such a complaint against Brian. I think the evidence is too subjective and circumstantial, and believe it or not, I actually *don’t* care that much about it. Brian has already proved himself a million times over. I don’t particularly care if he uses autotune for whatever reason. But because that’s how I feel, I also don’t mind my brain absorbing the idea and coping with the idea that he has used it, nor do I have trouble finding that something that is not to my liking, while simultaneously still enjoying the work in question.

[CenturyDeprived]

1.  Brian was one of the first to pioneer the use of new studio technology - always pushing the envelope.  Whatever the tools.  Decades ago he'd cut vocals in a lower key and speed them up to make the voices sound younger, something the Beach Boys have continued to do (California Dreamin).  All kinds of tricks at play in Smile and everything else.  While I take exception to auto-tune on the recent live album (the live version of Don't Back Down wins the award for the worst BB live recording ever), if it's at play here, I don't care.

 *If* Brian was/is using autotune, I would argue he's probably not “pioneering” the use of it. It has been in heavy use for 10-15 years now.

And that may well be a small part of the unspoken subtext of some of these debates on the topic. Some people feel that implicit in the use of autotune (or, on the other side of the debate, that implicit in the accusation of the use of autotune) is that Brian would in this scenario be a follower, using something that was initially used in the industry to cover up for mediocre singers and which has subsequently become an overused, trendy effect. Let me be clear, I’m not prepared to lodge such a complaint against Brian. I think the evidence is too subjective and circumstantial, and believe it or not, I actually *don’t* care that much about it. Brian has already proved himself a million times over. I don’t particularly care if he uses autotune for whatever reason. But because that’s how I feel, I also don’t mind my brain absorbing the idea and coping with the idea that he has used it, nor do I have trouble finding that something that is not to my liking, while simultaneously still enjoying the work in question.

Autotune was used very, very, very tastefully on the Gershwin album. Whoever worked on that took their time, clearly cared to make it as invisible as possible (despite that I know some people can point out autotune as being detectable in a few isolated spots, which I can hear if I really listen for it, but becomes nearly invisible when just sitting back and enjoying the record).

Seriously, whichever mixer/production person was responsible for the near-invisible autotune sound on Gershwin... they were on point. Imagine if they were used for every record from that point on.. TWGMTR, NPP, and the dreaded C50 live album (which I don't even own). 

That would have been nice.

[HeyJude]

Can anyone point to a specific part of Kacey's vocas where they're hearing autotune? Because I don't hear it at all. She sounds multi-tracked with a digital reverb.

Someone else claimed it’s old-fashioned plate reverb. I think the use of digital reverb can be distracting as well (and too much of any echo/reverb isn’t to my liking sometimes). Is it considered crapping on Brian’s new album to talk about overuse of reverb?

I will say this: In my opinion, instances going back to the 60s/70s/80s of Brian double-tracking lead vocals with reverb *don’t* give off that autotune-ish sound in any way. So this creates a conundrum, because even some folks who advocate that Brian *isn’t* using an autotune will acknowledge that the way some of these vocals are tracked/mixed can make it sound a bit like autotune does (there was at least one poster some time back who claimed “From There to Back Again” does NOT have any auotune, and was accomplished entirely by multi-tracking Al’s lead and adding effects). So what’s the cause of that? A theory I posited a little while back is that an alternative to actually using autotune to give that “sheen” to a vocal that’s trendy these days would be to use other means (double tracking, strategic use of reverb) to give that same sort of sheen. Is there someone out there trying to get an “autotune-ish” sound without using autotune? I dunno. More food for thought, nothing more.

[startBBtoday]

Can anyone point to a specific part of Kacey's vocas where they're hearing autotune? Because I don't hear it at all. She sounds multi-tracked with a digital reverb.

Someone else claimed it’s old-fashioned plate reverb. I think the use of digital reverb can be distracting as well (and too much of any echo/reverb isn’t to my liking sometimes). Is it considered crapping on Brian’s new album to talk about overuse of reverb?

I will say this: In my opinion, instances going back to the 60s/70s/80s of Brian double-tracking lead vocals with reverb *don’t* give off that autotune-ish sound in any way. So this creates a conundrum, because even some folks who advocate that Brian *isn’t* using an autotune will acknowledge that the way some of these vocals are tracked/mixed can make it sound a bit like autotune does (there was at least one poster some time back who claimed “From There to Back Again” does NOT have any auotune, and was accomplished entirely by multi-tracking Al’s lead and adding effects). So what’s the cause of that? A theory I posited a little while back is that an alternative to actually using autotune to give that “sheen” to a vocal that’s trendy these days would be to use other means (double tracking, strategic use of reverb) to give that same sort of sheen. Is there someone out there trying to get an “autotune-ish” sound without using autotune? I dunno. More food for thought, nothing more.

I would guess there's another effect added, or it's simply the use of digital recording rather than analog that causes these songs to sound different than the 60s/70s/80s.

This is probably obvious, but the easiest way to detect autotune is to hear a voice unnaturally move from one note to another. I'm not hearing that on this song. There's a digital sound to Kacey's voice, but there doesn't seem to be any pitch correction.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending the production on these songs. I wish they sounded more natural, but I definitely don't hear auto-tune.

Here is a song with autotune: https://youtu.be/qet2VkEbcX4

I'm personally not hearing even one instance in Kacey's vocals like that.

[Ron]

This autotune thing is hilarious.  It's to the point that reverb gets called Autotune now.  "Oh, he put echo on the girl's vocals, he's touching up her stuff!"  I"m sure he was thinking about touching up her stuff but it had nothing to do with her great voice.

Kacey has a crisp, nicely tuned voice, and more importantly she knows her voice very well.  Most of her songs have little whistles, flourishes she adds in... she's doesn't have the world's greatest voice or even a voice that's anything special, but she knows how to use it competently and knows it's limitations.  Listen how inside the box it is, she's not singing a great range or anything that would need any kind of help with autotune.  It's clearly got a double tracked (triple tracked?) vocal behind the other vocal, with tons of reverb on it to make it sound like the old school reverb or 'slapback' they used in the 50's...  It's not just the effect because at times you can hear the backing vocal come in slightly different than the lead. 

Here's a great video of her singing one of her beautiful songs live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjeQtRn5euw

Listen to her style: minimal range (because her voice isn't incredibly expansive) but very solid, even tone all through her range, and sweet beautiful melody runs that she's able to keep the same dynamic volume as her other notes.  She has a 'crisp' sound to her speaking, and singing voice which is what you're hearing on Brian's record, covered in reverb to make it even more crisp. 

I'd agree with the other guy, she's proud and actually very technical with her vocals (even live).  To go around saying everybody related to Brian Wilson is slathering autotune on their vocals is insulting and you should be ashamed of it. 

[Wirestone]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

[CenturyDeprived]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Wow. I haven't heard a note yet, but those lyrics... totally spot-on about the topic. It's pretty obvious. Maybe Mike can write a song about his thoughts on C50 as a response/rebuttal. Let's hope he delves deep into himself to draw out his feelings as lyrics.

[Mikie]

This autotune thing is hilarious.  I"m sure he was thinking about touching up her stuff but it had nothing to do with her great voice.

Now that's hilarious!   

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Can anyone point to a specific part of Kacey's vocas where they're hearing autotune? Because I don't hear it at all. She sounds multi-tracked with a digital reverb.

Someone else claimed it’s old-fashioned plate reverb. I think the use of digital reverb can be distracting as well (and too much of any echo/reverb isn’t to my liking sometimes). Is it considered crapping on Brian’s new album to talk about overuse of reverb?

I will say this: In my opinion, instances going back to the 60s/70s/80s of Brian double-tracking lead vocals with reverb *don’t* give off that autotune-ish sound in any way. So this creates a conundrum, because even some folks who advocate that Brian *isn’t* using an autotune will acknowledge that the way some of these vocals are tracked/mixed can make it sound a bit like autotune does (there was at least one poster some time back who claimed “From There to Back Again” does NOT have any auotune, and was accomplished entirely by multi-tracking Al’s lead and adding effects). So what’s the cause of that? A theory I posited a little while back is that an alternative to actually using autotune to give that “sheen” to a vocal that’s trendy these days would be to use other means (double tracking, strategic use of reverb) to give that same sort of sheen. Is there someone out there trying to get an “autotune-ish” sound without using autotune? I dunno. More food for thought, nothing more.

It was me, and actually I do think the reverb was a tad heavy, but it doesn't kill it for me.

[Wirestone]

As my sister was just telling me, whenever old rockers start writing about someone chasing gold, they're talking about fellow bandmates (or exes!).

[rab2591]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Holy hell. Thanks for writing the lyrics out, Wirestone. Just based on the last line, I knew this song was about a lot more than the bouncy/happy melody would have you believe....but I was so enthralled with the actual music that I didn't really listen closely to the lyrics yet. When considered in this context this song really packs a punch.

[Bud Shaver]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Holy hell. Thanks for writing the lyrics out, Wirestone. Just based on the last line, I knew this song was about a lot more than the bouncy/happy melody would have you believe....but I was so enthralled with the actual music that I didn't really listen closely to the lyrics yet. When considered in this context this song really packs a punch.

I thought the song was more about the Beach Boys rise to success in the 60s, but it totally applies to C50, too.

[thatjacob]

From Brian's Facebook:
"I am so proud of the song "Guess You Had To Be There" from my new album, No Pier Pressure. Kacey wrote some wonderful lyrics on the verses and her sweet voice blew me away. Thank you Kacey. Love & Mercy, Brian"

Knowing that Kacey wrote some of the verses, I suspect that either she wrote the verses with the C50 fallout in mind or that she wrote the second verse on her own and Brian wrote at least a good portion of the rest of the song first. The second verse is the only one that doesn't seem to directly reference the breakup.

"Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine"

[Wirestone]

I was thinking the chasing the shine was Mike ... lol.

[guitarfool2002]

An excerpt of the summer 2014 RS article on the session with Kacey, followed by engineer Wesley Seidman's interview from Mix magazine this fall describing the recording of the new album at Ocean Way:

Today, Wilson sits at the console at Ocean Way, recording Musgraves' vocals for "Guess You Had to Be There." He sips wheatgrass juice and munches on a chocolate doughnut. The song is lighthearted and fun, but the session didn't start that way. "Kacey said, 'Boy, he really tells you when he doesn't like your pitch,'" says Wilson's manager.
Wilson is often passive in social situations, but in the studio he barks instructions to musicians and creates complex vocal arrangements on the spot. "When it's good it's good, when it's not – do it again," he says. "But after three tries, Kacey nailed it. I like the way she just slides over the notes – she has a very cool sound."


http://mixonline.com/recording/artists_engineers_producers/brian_wilson_and_friends_at_ocean_way_studios/

Between Brian Wilson and Ocean Way Studios, Hollywood, you’ve got a whole lot of history, and a lot of musical possibilities.

Wilson began his latest project—an upcoming album of solo performances and duets with famous guests—in the three-studio complex a year-and-a-half ago. Now, fans are waiting with baited breath to hear the tracks, which at press time were being mixed by Bob Clearmountain.

“When Brian finished that last Beach Boys record [That’s Why God Made the Radio, 2012], he soon after began work on this one,” says Ocean Way’s senior staff engineer, Wesley Seidman, who recorded the new tracks. “Brian never stops writing. He’ll come in with a vocal idea, a piano demo that he made on his Dictaphone at home or he will just sit at the piano in the live room, and quickly those ideas become a song.”

Seidman captured the performances to Pro Tools in all three of the studios at Ocean Way (A, B and D), but the engineer says Wilson prefers to do live band tracking and orchestral sections in Studio B, a room that has also hosted sessions for award-winning albums by Green Day, Radiohead, and Eric Clapton with B.B. King: “It’s just the sound and feel of the room itself, and the [custom 56-Input 8068/8088] Neve doesn’t hurt,” Seidman says. “He did almost all of the work on his solo records in there. But he also likes Studio A, where we cut a few tracks and is my favorite room for strings. We also cut a lot of the background vocals and guest vocals for the new album in D.”

Though the final track list wasn’t available at press time, Seidman reveals that guests who cut with Wilson for this upcoming album include musician/producer/label exec Don Was on bass; guitarist Dean Parks; drummers Jim Keltner and Kenny Aronoff; and in-demand vocalists such as Zooey Deschanel, country star Kacey Musgraves, Nate Ruess of Fun., and popular singer/songwriter Lana Del Rey.

Wilson’s vocals were recorded in all three rooms with a Neumann U 47. In Studio A, his voice went through the modified Focusrite console to a Teletronix LA-2A. “In D, we would go through the remote Neve pre’s into an [Universal Audio] 1176, and then toward the last third of the record, I purchased a modified API mic pre, which has amazing bandwidth, and sent the 47 through that, into an 1176. And this is all flat—Brian EQs himself by moving around the mic, which he does naturally. We also used a plethora of [UAD] reverb and delay plug-ins. This enabled us to automate the delay and reverb times for each section of the songs where desired. Brian and I both like the FX to be just right.

“It’s always a pleasure to record such a talented and professional artist like Brian,” Seidman continues. “He also is actually a very funny person. He’s one of the few people able to make me laugh out loud on a regular basis.”

One of the advantages of working in a studio with Ocean Way’s history and reputation is the opportunity to audition new equipment, alongside the vintage. On Wilson’s sessions, Seidman tried out a batch of brand-new Sanken microphones.

“Jim Pace brought us these super-high-fidelity mics—the C0-100Ks,” says Seidman whose nine years and counting at Ocean Way were preceded by stints with Nathaniel Kunkel and Conway Studios. “We tried them on drum overheads, orchestra and horn rooms—they were really amazing. We also used them on a mandolin and acoustic lap steel. Another mic they gave us was the CU-55, which is my new favorite acoustic guitar and banjo mic. It really captures the instrument as it is. It complements the dynamics, so there was no need for a compressor. It’s one of my future purchases for sure.

“Ocean Way is one of only a handful of studios left where you get the opportunity to try the latest things in a controlled environment,” Seidman says. “I also think that musicians actually play differently when they’re there. I’ve worked with a lot of these same players in other places and they’re always amazing, but it’s almost like they get into a different zone when recording in these rooms. There is something very unique about the way the rooms sound and feel at Ocean Way, to the point where I’ve had friends call me up and ask, ‘Was this done at Ocean Way?’ They can tell. They’re getting some kind of overall picture of the rooms themselves and the way people play when they record in them.”

[Micha]

And now for some reason, we're debating my right (and others' rights) to dare mention specific items in particular threads as they relate, however peripherally, to the thread at hand.

No we're not. You have the right to invent scenarios, derail internet forum threads, and annoy people, as long as you don't get into conflict with legislation, but you don't HAVE to do it.

I'm legitimately sorry if I annoyed you, and/or derailed the thread, and that was not my intent.  I've admitted I went too far with the sarcasm. At least I was talking about members of this band; real derailing would be if I started talking about something with zero connection to the band. One could also argue that getting into a long public discussion of thread postings (in and of itself, like this discussion of yours I'm replying to) is much more annoying than any derailing I may have inadvertently done.

All right, we lay it to rest then.

[Ray Lawlor]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Sorry guys but I have to jump in here , as you could not be more off base with this interpetation. This song has zero to do with the C50 breakup , and everything to do with the 64-66 period in BRIAN's life.  When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

My recommendation is that you have a good listen to what I think is a great record, and all this distraction from enjoying it turns into a headache.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Sorry guys but I have to jump in here , as you could not be more off base with this interpetation. This song has zero to do with the C50 breakup , and everything to do with the 64-66 period in BRIAN's life.  When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

My recommendation is that you have a good listen to what I think is a great record, and all this distraction from enjoying it turns into a headache.

I'm glad you commented on that, Ray.  I remember reading an official statement that it was about an earlier period in Brian's life. but I couldn't find it.  Good to know I remembered correctly.

[runnersdialzero]

Edit: Whoops