SMiLE and what would have happened

[H Robinson]

I know, I know. This thread has been made a million times, but I won't bother to traipse through the archives. So, the question(s): What do you think would have happened if SMiLE was released? Would it have been a success? Dawning a new Beach Boys-led era of music?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. 

[shelter]

I'm not sure if it would have been a commercial success.
1. 'Pet Sounds' was, by Beach Boys standards at the time, somewhat of a commercial failure. And 'Pet Sounds' was a much more commercial album than 'Smile' would have been.
2. The 'Heroes and Villains' single kind of flopped as well.
3. A few hit singles can do more for an album than good reviews. Despite the presence of 'Good Vibrations' and 'Heroes and Villains', 'Smiley Smile' still didn't sell.

My guess is that 'Smile', had it been released in 1967, would not have been a top 10 album. Top 25 probably, but I don't think it would've kept The Beach Boys on top. Maybe it would have competed with 'Sgt. Pepper' on an artistic level, but not commercially.

And besides that, would Brian have been able to come with a suitable follow-up to 'Smile'?

[The Shift]

I'm not sure if it would have been a commercial success …

My guess is that 'Smile', had it been released in 1967, would not have been a top 10 album. Top 25 probably, but I don't think it would've kept The Beach Boys on top. Maybe it would have competed with 'Sgt. Pepper' on an artistic level, but not commercially.

I've got to think that any album that bore Prayer, Vibes, Heroes, Surf's Up, Cabinessence and Wonderful would have been a smash, even if it didn't sell to the Beach Boys traditional audience, and even if Worms, Fire, Veggies and others seemed too bizarre/esoteric.

[hypehat]

IDK, the only reason H&V flopped relatively is that it came out ages (relatively) after GV, and subsequent press hooplah - and then in a pretty shoddy mix/not the 'originally' intended structure. If it had come out in January or February, it might have been different.

(although when was the Cantina mix made? My mind says March. But my mind is also hungover).

Depends when it would have been released. As Capitol would have had it - ie, January 1967, I think it would have been akin to Pet Sounds, but the way these things go is that everyone is hearing about pop genius Wilson before the record came out,  not after (like with Pet Sounds) and thus initial reception would have been stronger. It would have certainly destroyed SGT. Pepper, which was in it's infancy.

However, if it came out when Smiley Smile did, it might not have been so successful - post Pepper, idiots will think The Beach Boys didn't get there first (although to anyone with ears Smile wipes it's dick on The Beatles curtains) - or it's obvious quality/unique sound might have pushed it as the other great psychedelic album.

Brian probably would have recorded Wild Honey anyway. He starts going for the stripped down aesthetic during Smile, after all.

[doinnothin]

I've got to think that any album that bore Prayer, Vibes, Heroes, Surf's Up, Cabinessence and Wonderful would have been a smash, even if it didn't sell to the Beach Boys traditional audience, and even if Worms, Fire, Veggies and others seemed too bizarre/esoteric.

Man, reading that list reminds me that, in a way, SMiLE is less than the sum of its parts. Like each of these songs requires the level of attention you'd give an album, and playing them all back to back robs them of their full effect. The way I feel about SMiLE is nothing compared to the cumulative feelings I have about Surf's Up, Cabinessence, Heroes & Villains, Good Vibrations, Windchimes, Prayer, Fire, I Love To Say Dada, Child is Father of The Man, Do You Like Worms, and Vegetables.

[Jaspy]

After the success of "Good Vibrations", the genius-press after 'Pet Sounds', Derek Taylor and the promotion Capitol already did for SMiLE, I think it could have been a good selling album in early 1967. After 'Pet Sounds' the BB were already the uncrowned kings of the 1966 pop music landscape and influenced other revolutionary bands significantly. SMiLE in early 1967 would have been the coronation.

[bgas]

The Capitol Records Spokesperson stated in their promo that they'd sell a million copies, and I have to take them at their word.

[pixletwin]

The Capitol Records Spokesperson stated in their promo that they'd sell a million copies, and I have to take them at their word.

Not quite. He said The Beach Boys plus whatever else they werew promoting were sure to sell a million. The full track on TSS makes that pretty clear.

[onkster]

I still think that, post-SMILE, there would have been something very much like Smiley Smile: an acoustic, rootsy throwback. That seems to be the pattern with a lot of groups: big far-out trip, then return to roots. That would certainly be better than trying to arse one's brain into out-Smiling Smile.

After that, though...that's the harder part. I'm betting it still would have gone somewhat the way it did, with the others making larger contributions as time went on.

[Roger Ryan]

...I'm betting it still would have gone somewhat the way it did, with the others making larger contributions as time went on.

Exactly. The trade papers' story angle would have been that while SMiLE was an amazing achievement, Brian overestimated what his core audience wanted to hear resulting in an album that didn't do quite as well as PET SOUNDS even though it had the number one single "Good Vibrations" included. The band would have returned with WILD HONEY and FRIENDS, maybe with slightly altered track lists (one of them may have included "Can't Wait To Long", etc.). I suspect 20/20 through SURF'S UP would have remained about the same minus the SMiLE tracks. As for the rest of history, the lack of the unreleased magnum opus would have forced a different story arc for Brian who may or may not have been encouraged to do a song suite like "Rio Grande" on his first solo album. If THE SMiLE SESSIONS didn't get released in 1997 after the PET SOUNDS box set, it probably would have come out shortly thereafter...maybe in 2001 when Brian may have toured the original SMiLE album like he did for PET SOUNDS the year before.

One thing I'm confident about: THE SMiLE SESSIONS would not have been released in the declining music business climate of 2011 if the completed album had already been available for 44 years.

[Jcc]

SMiLE could have been huge...under 2 conditions:

1) It comes out in the winter (Jan-Mar) 1967
2) The Beach Boys put on a great show at Monterey.

If those things happen, I think SMiLE goes big.  I don't think it would be about "beating" Sergeant Pepper, but both albums would have been legendary, representing the two poles of the 1960's music scene, America and Britain.   They would have been held in equal stature, which is a major victory in itself.

Afterwards, I think Wild Honey would still be released, but it would be a much better album with perhaps a few different songs and overall better production.  1968-1969 timeframe I actually see something resembling TLOS in concept, with "Do It Again" being the leadoff single.   Of course, this also assumes that BW's mental issues and drug use don't catch up with him anyway. 

Nevertheless, even if they do, and Carl is forced to take the reins, then the 1970's would probably be very different for the band.   Sunflower, Surf's Up, So Tough, Holland would be much better received commercially, and the band would probably never lose its mid-1960's popularity.   So Capitol would probably never issue Endless Summer, which means no transition to nostalgia act.  The late '70's albums would be vastly improved, with a lot more Dennis and Carl, and a lot less filler tracks and "fun-in-the-sun" junk.

[keysarsoze001]

I think the album could have been a success on one condition: if the band had managed to tour it right then and there. If they had staged it as some kind of a happening, something visual to accompany the music. Treat it as an event. If you tell people something is a masterpiece often enough, they WILL think of it that way. We have enough examples of that in popular culture to know that to be generally true. You look at what bands like The Who or Pink Floyd did with their concept albums only a few years later (Tommy was '69), that would be the model which would've worked, if you ask me. Trying to break it down into singles or something wouldn't have worked. People would need to think of it like a classical piece of music, as a whole.

Thing is, no one in the band other than Brian (maybe Carl, depending on his mood) could have bought into the pretentiousness of doing it that way. There's just no way those six guys could've gone out on the road with that bear of an album and convincingly do interviews where they dissect it or talk about its spiritual component or any of that sort of stuff that Pete Townshend could do in his sleep and without a hint of irony.

So since that's an impossible alternate history, I think if the album had come out, it would've gotten a lot of attention and sparked a lot of talk among people who analyze music. And I think the general public would've gone, "Hm. Well, that's interesting, but it doesn't have any actual SONGS, does it." And it'd still build up a cult following a la The Clash's Sandanista or something like that, but I don't think it would've been a commercial smash at all. I think it would've done something a little less than Pet Sounds did. And that its failure to connect with the public would have led to basically the same trajectory for Brian. It still would've been the project of his which broke him and left the band forever playing catch up. He almost certainly would have gone with something stripped down like Wild Honey was as his next project, because that's common in that era. Abbey Road followed by stark stuff like Plastic Ono Band and McCartney. Paul Simon's self-titled after the orchestral scope of Bridge Over Troubled Water.

[ontor pertawst]

Van Dyke was right. They should have made a Smile cartoon to give it visuals, put it in a different context that worked to tell a story and brought in lots of eyeballs.