Preview BWRG on Amazon

[Ron]

That's not to say Brian Wilson isn't a great songwriter, he of course is... but he's hit and miss.  George and Ira Gershwin are not hit and miss.

Unless you're as familiar with the Gershwin catalog as you are with Brian's, I'm not sure you can say the Gershwins hit it out of the park with every song they wrote. Most of us (me included) are only aware of the best stuff they did. The Gershwins might have had some clunkers along the way. The other thing is that G. Gershwin had formal musical training--more than Brian did. However, I will say that overall, based on the songs I've heard, it's hard to beat the Gershwins as songwriters, and of course Brian having the problems he did had all those little snippets of songs instead of whole songs.

That's a good point.  Time has done to Gershwin's music what it's starting to do to Brian's, nobody plays the worst Beach Boys songs on the radio, so anybody listening now would think they were all very good.  Of course really though, Barbara Ann excluded much of the early stuff WAS very good.  I'm largely talking about Brian's songwriting and performing in his solo career, however.

I don't know anything about Cliff Richard, but i'll assume he's not in the same league as Frank Sinatra   I was talking about Frank's 'hits', but I feel he was in nearly as good 'form' as he was in his early career.  Has anybody heard those live versions of "Mack the Knife" he did at the end of his career, where he called out the other people who had sang it, and the band, and everything?  Great stuff.  Of course 'My Way' was amazing too.  I'm way off topic.  Sorry.

[the captain]

That's a good point.  Time has done to Gershwin's music what it's starting to do to Brian's, nobody plays the worst Beach Boys songs on the radio, so anybody listening now would think they were all very good. 

You've just hit exactly on my problem with the ever-present complaint that "music today isn't as good as it was in the [60s / 70s / 80s / 90s / whenever complainer happened to be a teenager]. These days its all just [money / image / whatever.]" And my response would always be that the music business is always a business, and the vast majority of it is about the money / image / whatever. But over time we filter out what was less valuable and keep the best (more or less, with the occasional forgotten gems or kept trash). To truly recognize the greats, you need to let it breathe a few decades or more ... which is tough for us in a very immediate world.

[Myk Luhv]

What about Rhino's George and Ira Gershwin in Hollywood, released in 1992, a two-disc compilation that features many definitive versions of Gershwin songs made for movies from 1932-58?

Cub Koda, of allmusic, opines:

Although George and Ira Gershwin  were already well established as Broadway's hottest and finest writing team, they had to wait until the movies started talking to come westward to work their magic in films. This two-disc, 40-track deluxe anthology is largely produced through the auspices of Turner Classic Movies, which now owns the enormous MGM library. Along with pre-recorded soundtrack acetates -- free from dialogue and sound effects -- from RKO (the first pre-recording playback discs from A Damsel in Distress and Shall We Dance), this collection brings for the first time to compact disc items like "Delishious," "Summertime," and "135th Street Blues (Blue Monday)," Oscar Levant's "Third Prelude," and Ray Heindorf's original "Overture" from Gershwin's biopic Rhapsody in Blue. With the original film appearances of "Swanee," "Love Is Here to Stay," "Fascinating Rhythm," "The Man I Love," "Embraceable You," "They All Laughed," "A Foggy Day," "But Not for Me," "Let's Call the Thing Off," "Nice Work If You Can Get It," "Strike Up the Band," "Oh Lady, Be Good," and "I Got Rhythm" aboard, this compilation stands as textbook American popular songwriting of the highest order. Produced by Michael Feinstein, George Feltenstein, and Bradley Flanagan, this was a labor of love, and the work put into finding the rare one-of-a-kind playback discs was the extra mile gone in making this such a thorough overview within the confines of a two-disc anthology. And no, they really don't write them like that anymore.

I don't know whether this material would have been especially familiar to Brian, but it would be an authentic representation of Gershwin's (popular) songwriting style, would it not?

[Ron]

I was thinking about that the other day, somebody asked me why I listen to old stuff and I told them that the songs they play on the 60's channels and things (I listen to a lot of XM) have proven to be great, or they wouldn't be playing them.  

I'm a Libra (I'm not a huge astrology fan, but some of it makes sense!) and I try to have a 'balanced' look at things.  When I was a little younger, I was much more critical of the new music... but like we were saying on the other post, popular appeal says a lot, even if I can stand to listen to some of it








To O: I wonder if Brian ran through some popular recordings before arranging the album?  I'll bet he did.  He apparently worked with the Gershwin family, and that would have been one of their semi-recent compilations, so they may have shared it with him.  They keep saying they made 100 unreleased unfinished songs available to him, likely they made a few good colections of the standards available to him too.  Also, if differences between the original and the interpretations were important, the estate would definately be the folks to know that!

[Andrew G. Doe]

To O: I wonder if Brian ran through some popular recordings before arranging the album?  I'll bet he did.  He apparently worked with the Gershwin family, and that would have been one of their semi-recent compilations, so they may have shared it with him.  They keep saying they made 100 unreleased unfinished songs available to him, likely they made a few good colections of the standards available to him too.  Also, if differences between the original and the interpretations were important, the estate would definately be the folks to know that!

What say Brian already has some Gershwin on CD ? I'm thinking Occam's razor applies here.

[Wirestone]

Unless you're as familiar with the Gershwin catalog as you are with Brian's, I'm not sure you can say the Gershwins hit it out of the park with every song they wrote.

Absolutely right. They did not. The Gershwins wrote many, many songs, and most of them did not become hits. Brian may have had a higher hit average for the short amount of time he was writing as prolifically as George.

Some GG tunes were cut from shows and replaced with other, new songs that he wrote. Heck, one of his masterpieces -- the nearly operatic Broadway show "Strike Up the Band" -- was almost entirely rewritten after a disastrous first production. (Most people feel the first version is much better, but less commercial.) Even Porgy & Bess was cut way down for its '30s productions -- GG liked his original, full version, but he only ever saw it performed that way once or twice.

What about Rhino's George and Ira Gershwin in Hollywood, released in 1992, a two-disc compilation that features many definitive versions of Gershwin songs made for movies from 1932-58?

This would be a good reflection of what the Gershwins heard at the time. And because they were in movies, they were heard by the wider public, too. So it could be a good choice! Some of those songs didn't debut in the movies, though, so you're still hearing re-interpretations. But a young Brian could have seen or heard music from these films, too. (My bet is still on the jazzier, popular versions, though.)

[Ron]

To O: I wonder if Brian ran through some popular recordings before arranging the album?  I'll bet he did.  He apparently worked with the Gershwin family, and that would have been one of their semi-recent compilations, so they may have shared it with him.  They keep saying they made 100 unreleased unfinished songs available to him, likely they made a few good colections of the standards available to him too.  Also, if differences between the original and the interpretations were important, the estate would definately be the folks to know that!

What say Brian already has some Gershwin on CD ? I'm thinking Occam's razor applies here.

Tru Dat.

[Don_Zabu]

You know, this is probably the first time I won't illegally download an album to hear it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

To O: I wonder if Brian ran through some popular recordings before arranging the album?  I'll bet he did.  He apparently worked with the Gershwin family, and that would have been one of their semi-recent compilations, so they may have shared it with him.  They keep saying they made 100 unreleased unfinished songs available to him, likely they made a few good colections of the standards available to him too.  Also, if differences between the original and the interpretations were important, the estate would definately be the folks to know that!

What say Brian already has some Gershwin on CD ? I'm thinking Occam's razor applies here.

Tru Dat.

OK, this is my understanding - Brian compiled a CD from his own collection, which included some Sinatra tracks, Ella & Louis' Porgy & Bess and others including The Four Freshmen.

[Alex]

Just listened to the previews...not too shabby. Though I wish Brian would've done a rock and roll album instead...not a knock at the Gershwin record...I guess I was just disappointed that Brian wasn't going to work on Pleasure Island.

[Ron]

To O: I wonder if Brian ran through some popular recordings before arranging the album?  I'll bet he did.  He apparently worked with the Gershwin family, and that would have been one of their semi-recent compilations, so they may have shared it with him.  They keep saying they made 100 unreleased unfinished songs available to him, likely they made a few good colections of the standards available to him too.  Also, if differences between the original and the interpretations were important, the estate would definately be the folks to know that!

What say Brian already has some Gershwin on CD ? I'm thinking Occam's razor applies here.

Tru Dat.

OK, this is my understanding - Brian compiled a CD from his own collection, which included some Sinatra tracks, Ella & Louis' Porgy & Bess and others including The Four Freshmen.

That makes sense.  I wonder if Brian was approached, or if he floated the idea to the Gershwin's, or if it was some kind of scheme Disney cooked up

[Wirestone]

I believe Brian was approached by the Gershwin estate first.

But it's interesting to hear he did some pre-production work on his own.

[TdHabib]

I think I'm off to make the same compilation CD as Bri

[Margarita]

You've just hit exactly on my problem with the ever-present complaint that "music today isn't as good as it was in the [60s / 70s / 80s / 90s / whenever complainer happened to be a teenager]. These days its all just [money / image / whatever.]" And my response would always be that the music business is always a business, and the vast majority of it is about the money / image / whatever. But over time we filter out what was less valuable and keep the best (more or less, with the occasional forgotten gems or kept trash). To truly recognize the greats, you need to let it breathe a few decades or more ... which is tough for us in a very immediate world.

Let the people say Amen!  I can't agree more.  I've tried to make this point with the complainers, but it never works.

Also remember that the pop songs of a particular time "belong" to the teens of that time.  So many dismiss today's songs as trash, but it's the soundtrack of the lives of my high school students.  Whether the songs were good or bad is irrelevant; the songs are there for them.  I grew up in the 80s and people said the pop songs then were trash, too...yet now they're heralded as brilliant.  Whatevs.

[buddhahat]

Was feeling a bit indifferent towards this upcoming BW release, partly as I thought this was just going to be a covers album, but finally got round to listening to these previews and there is definitely some great moments in here. I am really keen to hear the whole album now.