Ouch!....Al Opens Up Again.

[Mike's Beard]

C50 for me was an Indian Summer, nothing more, nothing less. We'll always have all that great music from the past; unless the day comes when I become totally played out on that I'll remain a hardcore BB fan.

[Mikie]

I've accepted the fact that the C50 lineup is probably never getting back together again for the exact same reasons AGD mentioned perhaps in this thread because there were just too many compromises necessary to facilitate the reunion the first time around.  Maybe money will eventually talk and change some minds but even that is doubtful.  As a fan right now I don't know where I am with this band.  I have most (if not all) of their catalog, will likely continue to buy archival releases in the future but can honestly also say that I'm not as high on them as I was prior to and during the C50.   The aftermath of the C50 really bummed me out to the point where I can honestly care less about what the individual band members are doing with their lives right now.  To me both M&B and BAD are poor man's versions of "The Beach Boys" and unless Brian Wilson releases a real stunner of a record next year I'll probably save my money to go and see someone else.

I share your sentiments. I probably wouldn't go see Brian this time if they hadn't added Jeff Beck. I've seen Brian with Al (and Ricky!) in '07 and I saw Blondie way back when he was a Beach Boy. And I saw Dave at the the C50 last year. It may have swayed me to go see those guys right there, but with Jeff Beck........I hope he lasts until the end of the tour and it doesn't fall apart before then. Brian looks bored shitless during the first gig and ain't talking to Beck much it seems, which is unfortunate. And Brian's back, from looking at the pictures, doesn't look 100%. My good friend is a huge Jeff Beck fan, so we'll go up to Oakland and check it out.

What I don't need at the moment (or quite frankly at any time) is some petty marionette constantly chiding and backbiting towards me for expressing how I feel.  The truth of it is, my prediction is at some point I'll just walk away from this message board entirely and that will be the end of my hardcore fandom regarding The Beach Boys.  No I won't be putting up my collection for sale at a yard sale anytime soon but a big part of who I was as a Beach Boys fan died with the end of the C50.  

Nah, you don't wanna do that. We need more knowledgeable hardcore fans here like yourself, otherwise the board'll be boring.

So while we all are entitled to our opinions and viewpoints it just seems to me that the whole fucking thing doesn't even matter anymore.  At the heart of things I guess what has happened is I got pissed off to the point of apathy.  I come back here every once and awhile mainly to check The Beatles thread or see what guitarfool has posted but beyond that the whole fucking thing to me is just sad.  I'd rather embrace and support bands that you know are still together.  Unfortunately the band that for a long time meant so much to me personally no longer qualifies in that regard.  So you maybe f*** it all should be my final word on the matter, at least I hope it is.

Understand the feeling and agree except that it still does matter a lot. Some of us are real passionate; maybe TOO passionate. But we can't throw in the towel yet - I think these guys still not only have their independent shows to go see, I think there'll be more music coming down the pipeline. Just got a feelin'. Now wipe that tear off your cheek and go knock back a brewski or two!  

[ontor pertawst]

Well put, Mikie! If I ever need to be talked down a ledge, I'll reread your post.

[Bicyclerider]

People are entitled to feel whatever they want about the Beach boys and the end of the reunion but to let the end of C50 so disillusion you to the Beach  boys as a family to give up on wanting to see the individual members or enjoy their music makes no sense.  This has ALWAYS been a dysfunctional family with members coming and going, suing each other, Brian going into hibernation for years at a time, family factions fighting physically and breaking into alliances of members against other members etc.  but it's ultimately not about the personalities but about the music.  There's been so many ups and downs with the group and with Brian but that's never affected my appreciation of the music.

[HeyJude]

And I thought people had retired the set end date canard. Even AGD admits that Mike put the kibosh on the whole thing, and that the other parties wanted to continue.

I did ? Damn, the short-term memory loss is worsening - care to remind me of where and when I said that, please ?

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense, all parties agree Mike put the kibosh. They certainly disagree on the reasons, fairness, ramifications, and importance of the decision, but not the fact that the decision was made. Thus, the "set end date" bit is BS on the order of "I burned all the Smile tapes" or "Carl mixed drink and prescriptions on the 1978 Australia tour."

[Lowbacca]

You know, maybe I'm just not cynical enough for this board.  So, since I'm so darn blissfully naive, Im just going to go on believing that maybe Al and Brian and David actually did enjoy playing together in a band again. And, I'm going to keep thinking that they like making music and just want to keep on going., making new albums and touring together. And, I'll just suppose that maybe they were more than a bit disappointed that Mike decided otherwise. And, maybe that's  all Al's saying.

In my world, I can  think what I want.  

Good post!

Seconded!

[Dancing Bear]

Oh gosh, since everyone's spanking the dead horse... Again.... My turn.

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

2. If Brian had split after the pre-set C50 dates had ended, I doubt there would be 20% of all this whining. Well, there would be a lot of speculations about how he was mistreated by certain bandmates, making him lose his heart and wanting nothing to do with the Beach Boys ever again.

3. While a full scale reunion is probably not gonna happen again, I don't think they were faking it in the rooftop event or all through the C50 celebration. With the exception of Al vs Mike there isn't any great animosity between the survivors. Mike and Brian may very well enjoy each other's company in a Thanksgiving Day or something like that. But touring is HARD WORK, it's a JOB and it took lots of compromises by all parties involved. C50 was a success and a great way to close the saga. That it didn't last longer than scheduled is only a footnote.

[HeyJude]

Oh gosh, since everyone's spanking the dead horse... Again.... My turn.

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

2. If Brian had split after the pre-set C50 dates had ended, I doubt there would be 20% of all this whining. Well, there would be a lot of speculations about how he was mistreated by certain bandmates, making him lose his heart and wanting nothing to do with the Beach Boys ever again.

3. While a full scale reunion is probably not gonna happen again, I don't think they were faking it in the rooftop event or all through the C50 celebration. With the exception of Al vs Mike there isn't any great animosity between the survivors. Mike and Brian may very well enjoy each other's company in a Thanksgiving Day or something like that. But touring is HARD WORK, it's a JOB and it took lots of compromises by all parties involved. C50 was a success and a great way to close the saga. That it didn't last longer than scheduled is only a footnote.

One area where I think too much conflating is going on is on the issue of who ended the reunion. I for one would be criticizing anyone in the band who stopped it from continuing in the face of all the other members wanting to continue. If Brian had been the only holdout, I'd be criticizing him just as much. Truly. The reunion was too good for any of these guys to F it up.  That's why it's a tragedy within the context of their career.

[Sheriff John Stone]

And I thought people had retired the set end date canard. Even AGD admits that Mike put the kibosh on the whole thing, and that the other parties wanted to continue.

I did ? Damn, the short-term memory loss is worsening - care to remind me of where and when I said that, please ?

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense, all parties agree Mike put the kibosh. They certainly disagree on the reasons, fairness, ramifications, and importance of the decision, but not the fact that the decision was made. Thus, the "set end date" bit is BS on the order of "I burned all the Smile tapes" or "Carl mixed drink and prescriptions on the 1978 Australia tour."

Cryptic interview comment?

[Jim V.]

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

Here's the problem though, Mike didn't go "solo." He's not out there touring as Mike Love, and if he was, I'm sure he'd sell about one-twentieth of the tickets  he sells as "The Beach Boys."

[Dancing Bear]

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

Here's the problem though, Mike didn't go "solo." He's not out there touring as Mike Love, and if he was, I'm sure he'd sell about one-twentieth of the tickets  he sells as "The Beach Boys."

Yeah, it's a BRI business arrangement that suits Mike, Brian and Carl's estate. Don't worry, the "Beach Boys" playing Sea World is not hurting the legacy.

[Stephen W. Desper]

----

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:

FELLOW FANS !!  YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN !!

[KittyKat]

BUT THE BEACH BOYS AREN'T CALM! THEY'RE BRINGING IN THE LAWYERS, AGAIN!

In a perfect world, they'd see the wisdom of opening a Beach Boys Theatre in Branson, MO. They could all live in a big house together and have a reality show on the Discovery Channel showing how they fight and make up behind the scenes. Brian could get to avoid travel and Mike could play his 100+ gigs a year. The rest of the schedule could be filled up with California Saga gigs. They could open a restaurant and theme park in the same area.

[Jim V.]

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

Here's the problem though, Mike didn't go "solo." He's not out there touring as Mike Love, and if he was, I'm sure he'd sell about one-twentieth of the tickets  he sells as "The Beach Boys."

Yeah, it's a BRI business arrangement that suits Mike, Brian and Carl's estate. Don't worry, the "Beach Boys" playing Sea World is not hurting the legacy.

Then I ask you not to say he went solo then. Because he didn't. And I bet he would have been just fine to stick with the real Beach Boys if he wasn't allowed to tour with the name without them.

[Lonely Summer]

BUT THE BEACH BOYS AREN'T CALM! THEY'RE BRINGING IN THE LAWYERS, AGAIN!

In a perfect world, they'd see the wisdom of opening a Beach Boys Theatre in Branson, MO. They could all live in a big house together and have a reality show on the Discovery Channel showing how they fight and make up behind the scenes. Brian could get to avoid travel and Mike could play his 100+ gigs a year. The rest of the schedule could be filled up with California Saga gigs. They could open a restaurant and theme park in the same area.

Actually, I imagine them renting a beach house in southern Cal, and struggling to pay the rent, taking any kind of gig they can get....oh wait, that was the Monkees!

[Pretty Funky]

COMMENT:

FELLOW FANS !!  YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN !!

Hmmm. Are we building this thing up to be bigger than Ben Hur maybe?

[Dancing Bear]

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

Here's the problem though, Mike didn't go "solo." He's not out there touring as Mike Love, and if he was, I'm sure he'd sell about one-twentieth of the tickets  he sells as "The Beach Boys."

Yeah, it's a BRI business arrangement that suits Mike, Brian and Carl's estate. Don't worry, the "Beach Boys" playing Sea World is not hurting the legacy.

Then I ask you not to say he went solo then. Because he didn't. And I bet he would have been just fine to stick with the real Beach Boys if he wasn't allowed to tour with the name without them.

I said Brian went solo. He can, so he did. Mike and Al can't.

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:

The celebrities you have been posting about each have personal, unique, wide-ranging, and challenged, 24/7 lives. "The Beach Boys", or to them "The Beach Boys Corporation", is just one aspect of their complicated and sometimes convoluted daily thoughts.

Of course Bruce and Michael have gone on to a venue that pays the bills!  Michael has his share of expenses, and Bruce has kids in collage. I think one goes to Cambridge, England. Also both of them are business oriented. They are in control of The Beach Boys Corporation because of their business focal. So it’s no surprise that they would team up to promote the image of the "classic" The Beach Boys, and pay some bills.

When Brian’s brothers died, in a word, he realized his band was gone. Brian decided to act on his long-time desire to form another band of his own. He has his BB legacy, but continued to act on his talents in CD after CD. So it follows he ventured out on his own. He travels in one of those extreme class motor homes. Eats healthy.

Alan is alone in the mix today. If Carl and Dennis were alive, the band would have continued as The Beach Boys. But that’s not what happened. Al formed a new group and did some tours. That didn’t work out for Alan and would up in a court battle. Alan and Brian tried it out. That was short lived. He has done some albums but Alan in his interview speaks from a very different perspective – a perspective that should not be ignored.

~swd

[southbay]

COMMENT:

The celebrities you have been posting about each have personal, unique, wide-ranging, and challenged, 24/7 lives. "The Beach Boys", or to them "The Beach Boys Corporation", is just one aspect of their complicated and sometimes convoluted daily thoughts.

Of course Bruce and Michael have gone on to a venue that pays the bills!  Michael has his share of expenses, and Bruce has kids in collage. I think one goes to Cambridge, England. Also both of them are business oriented. They are in control of The Beach Boys Corporation because of their business focal. So it’s no surprise that they would team up to promote the image of the "classic" The Beach Boys, and pay some bills.

When Brian’s brothers died, in a word, he realized his band was gone. Brian decided to act on his long-time desire to form another band of his own. He has his BB legacy, but continued to act on his talents in CD after CD. So it follows he ventured out on his own. He travels in one of those extreme class motor homes. Eats healthy.

Alan is alone in the mix today. If Carl and Dennis were alive, the band would have continued as The Beach Boys. But that’s not what happened. Al formed a new group and did some tours. That didn’t work out for Alan and would up in a court battle. Alan and Brian tried it out. That was short lived. He has done some albums but Alan in his interview speaks from a very different perspective – a perspective that should not be ignored.

~swd

Well, yes,  but stop being a voice of reason and experience, ok?

[Mike's Beard]

[I said Brian went solo. He can, so he did. Mike and Al can't.

Sure they can. Just because one of them has about eight unreleased albums that no record label wants to touch with a barge pole and the other one spent 20 odd years making an album of mostly remakes and covers doesn't mean they can't have productive and fulfilling solo........ oh wait........

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

[Jim V.]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

Yep, the correct context was probably that the tour was tiring for Brian and that he wanted to chill. And then after a few months get back to working with The Beach Boys.

And Mike Love didn't wanna do that. He did what he was contractually obligated to do. And then he wanted to get back to his group. He chose not to work with the other guys.

Do I think the decision makes Mike look crass? Yeah. Fulfilling of his commerce over art view? Definitely. But whatever, it's his choice.

And I have to say that until Brian and Al put their money where there mouth is and force Mike to stop using the name, then they are complicent in the status quo. Personally I hope Mike isn't allowed to use the name anymore unless Brian, him and Al are all together. But we'll see. It's up to them.

[Nicko1234]

One area where I think too much conflating is going on is on the issue of who ended the reunion. I for one would be criticizing anyone in the band who stopped it from continuing in the face of all the other members wanting to continue. If Brian had been the only holdout, I'd be criticizing him just as much. Truly. The reunion was too good for any of these guys to F it up.  That's why it's a tragedy within the context of their career.

Honestly, I can't understand how anyone can feel like that.

'I don't care what your wishes are Brian. If the other guys want to tour as The Beach Boys then you must continue against your will or be damned for all eternity!'

They are all human beings let's not forget.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

Yep, the correct context was probably that the tour was tiring for Brian and that he wanted to chill. And then after a few months get back to working with The Beach Boys.

So... you agree that it was Brian who said "no more", just as Mike stated back in the summer ?  In fact the context I was imagining was more wide-ranging than that.