The Smiley Smile Message Board

We are days away from Love & Mercy being released at the Toronto Film Festival, it's first showing is on Sunday the 7th of September. John Cusack is expected to attended, no word on Brian.

I'm happy to say that the film has already received a rave review from the festival co-director, ""Dispensing with staid biopic conventions, director Bill Pohlad nimbly intercuts between two key periods in Wilson's life, shining a double spotlight on his rise to stardom with the Beach Boys in the sixties and his remarkable eighties solo resurgence. As the younger Wilson, Paul Dano gives a superb performance that conveys the artist's prodigious gifts as well as his increasingly precarious mental state; the scenes of creative exploration during the Pet Sounds sessions are exhilarating. John Cusack is equally compelling, burrowing into himself as Dano's middle-aged counterpart."

We'll follow it's showing in this thread, reviews, pics etc.

Everything points to this movie being amazing - the incorrect woodie has not destroyed the film!! - and I can't wait to see it.

Only 2 more weeks! If only I lived in Canada or near Toronto. However, I'm still hoping they find a distributor and release it soon here in the US.

Hey I hope it does well but surely the role of a 'festival co-director' is to promote and sell tickets so I take any review from within the TIFF with a pinch of salt.

Fingers crossed though.

Very true. I just found the comment "the scenes of creative exploration during the Pet Sounds sessions are exhilarating" pretty interesting. It's nice to known the Pet Sounds sessions get some screen time.

No matter how bad the movie is those scenes should be good.

Several stills of these '66 studio scenes have appeared on Twitter and such via the actors and musicians playing the musicians (what???  ;D  ), a few are in the BW film thread. I'm very much looking forward to seeing (and hearing) those scenes on the big screen.

 i hope it gets worldwide distrbution and preems in denmark. if danish tv could show the beard movie, surely there must be a market for something so clearly better. if jersey boys can get danish distribution, i don't see why love and mercy shouldn't have a market. only the older generation of danes remember the four seasons at all, but beach boys span the generations, as they do all over the world. isn't there also a dennis movie in production?

Interesting to see that the film isn't structured chronologically. Should make for an interesting experience watching it.

Dying to see the director's cut version with the BW/Alice Cooper/Iggy Pop "Shortenin' Bread" scene taking up one straight hour right in the middle of the film.

And the day before ....


Roger Waters The Wall
Rue 21 Productions Presents
A Film By Roger Waters and Sean Evans
ROGER WATERS THE WALL
World Premiere September 6, 2014 Toronto International Film Festival

http://www.tiff.net/festivals/thefestival/programmes/specialpresentations/the-wall

I hope this film manages to be interesting. Statements like "remarkable eighties solo resurgence" sound a bit weird to me. I'm curious how dark and accurate the Landy portrayal (not just the Landy character himself, but the whole situation) is going to be.

But I do like the idea of dispensing with a chronological movie trying to hit all the points. Invariably, what seems to happen in those cases is mostly covering the 60's, conflating the 70's into one or two key things (spaced out Brian, etc.), and barely touching on the 80's. This will be different, so that could be good.

I was wondering if maybe they are playing this at the film festival so that they can find someone to distribute it... also why doesn't Capitol distribute it, or at least find a studio that they have worked closely with in the past? after all they have worked with movie companies before.

Not for some time. It was shelved last year.

Really ?  Such as ?

Well, there's this one: https://www.facebook.com/BiggerThanTheBeatles (https://www.facebook.com/BiggerThanTheBeatles)

I don't think Capitol does movie distribution these days. Obviously, their parent company Universal does. I don't suppose it's out of the realm of possibilities that due to Brian's relationship with Capitol/Universal, they could try to catch the attention of Universal or some sort of indie subsidiary if they have one.

I think they want to get the thing into theaters. I'm sure there are plenty of home video distributors that would put this thing out on Blu/DVD. I don't think we should worry about that so much. It's a matter of whether they can get a good distributor to give this a real push in theaters, and if so, how long they will take to see that out and then run it in theaters.

It could well be another year before we can buy a DVD or Blu-ray of this film. If/when they get a distributor, it will probably run a bunch of festival circuits and then do the arthouse circuit, limited runs, etc. There doesn't seem to be a big chance of this getting widespread, 3,000-screen distribution.

Here's a scene from the BIGGER THAN THE BEATLES film...

http://www.imdb.com/video/demo_reel/vi2592385049

...as you can see, this is very "indie" with an obvious low budget (I'm trying to be nice).

As to THE DRUMMER: that project was initiated by Randall Miller who probably won't be directing anything soon after being charged with manslaughter and criminal trespass during the shooting of his Greg Allman biopic. It's probably a good thing to keep him away from Dennis; his CBGB is one of the worst music-oriented films I've seen.

will the movie have a cd with remakes of BB songs performed by Brian?

::) Good crew (/creative team), inspired cast.

Should we expect a trailer before the premiere or not? I think i'm waiting anxiously in vain.
I recently read that a trailer is usually released 2/3 months before cinema debut, so maybe we'll have to wait another 2/3 months to see a trailer :(
(of course sometimes depends on the promotion strategy and the demand, but this one doesn't feel like being a top anticipated movie)

Are we ever getting a trailer?

Of course there'll be a trailer. Should be soon now.

I want a trailer!

(That scene from the independent Dennis-movie looked actually pretty good, even though it propably isn't even a scene in the actual movie, what so ever. A billion time better than any scene from the Summer Dreams-fecal festival).

No.

Well, the movie is finished, has top actors in it, it's about to premiere a major festival and it's ranked 153 in the 200 most anticipated films of 2014, so yes, I think we are getting a movie and of course a trailer; when and how is the question.

I think someone said before that it's premiering at the festival to pick up a distributor - then we'll get a trailer.

Ideally it'd be coming out at the same time as the details on the B-Dubs album.

A new film about Wilson's battle with what is euphemistically called his "demons" is set to premiere Sept. 7 at the Toronto International Film Festival. Titled "Love and Mercy," it stars Paul Dano and John Cusack as the young and old Wilson, respectively, and Paul Giamatti as Dr. Eugene Landy, the late psychotherapist who took control of Wilson's life as a financial conservator, musical collaborator and 24/7 counselor. It follows Wilson in the mid-1960s as he suffers psychotic episodes and struggles with drug abuse and obesity.

Wilson has actively been involved in fine-tuning the film, which has been in development since 1988. He went to a recent table reading, his publicist, Jean Sievers said, and provided the production team with some notes. It already has an international distribution deal from Lionsgate.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/life/entertainment/music/2014/08/27/beach-boys-brian-wilson/14716185/

Not related to L&M, but he also speaks on Foskett leaving his band, depression, and some other things

Some interesting quotes from the article:

Wilson says flat out, "The Beach Boys band is not as good as my band.

"The Brian Wilson Band is younger and has better musicians," he said. "They play better, they sing better. They are really just excellent musicians."

and

Asked when the other material he recorded with Beck will be released, he said, "Not soon."

Very reasonable and interesting article, but someone really needs to do better research: of those "ten lesser-known songs", three were US Top 20 hits and two more went US Top 40: in all, six charted, and that's not considering the foreign markets.

 :rock :rock :rock

This is all that matters. Now where's my trailer

Brian was obese in the mid 60s?  I also didn't know Sail On Sailor was a beautiful ballad. Who wrote this sh*t?

Edit

And a video link to that infamous 1981 performance? ! Thankfully GoK and not Dont Worry Baby, though.

Someone finally asks questions that we want answers to, and we can only complain about the two facts he got wrong.

Who wrote this sh*t? Someone who's not as obsessed with Brian Wilson as we are.

Has nothing to do with being obsessed or not. If you're a journalist and you make several mistakes (calling a rocker a ballad, calling several well-known hit songs obscure, placing Brian's weight problems in the wrong decade) that could very easily have been prevented by checking Wikipedia for two minutes and by actually giving the songs you're talking about a quick listen, than you're kinda doing a poor job.

Exactly. 

He didn't write obscure. He wrote "lesser-known." And lesser known is, quite frankly, in the eye of the beholder. And I'm sure the general reader of The Desert Sun probably can't immediately recall Hawaii, Please Let Me Wonder or Wild Honey.

As a journalist, I understand that the mistakes about Sail On Sailor and Brian being obese in the 60s shouldn't have happened, but I also understand that they DO happen, no matter the writer, process or editor.

It's just odd to me that someone finally churns out a decent interview, asking Brian questions we want to hear, and now we're talking about the two things he got wrong more than any new information. I suppose it's the problem with the internet, though. All anyone wants to do is complain.

I don't think you should have a whole lot of tolerance for lazy journalists who don't bother to check very simple facts. They get paid to inform and if they get their facts wrong, they're simply doing a bad job. How much trouble can it be to just listen to 'Sail On, Sailor' for a minute or to find out that songs like 'Cotton Fields', 'Do You Wanna Dance', 'Heroes and Villains' were actually fairly big hits?

I wouldn't call myself a journalist since writing is just a hobby for me, but I did write for a music magazine for nine years. And even if I had to write about some Austrian hardcore band that had just released a demo tape, I made sure that I double checked every little fact. If I could do that in my spare time with bands that usually played for 30-40 people, than why should I accept it if a professional doesn't do it with one of the most successful bands in music history?

The mistakes in this article are all pretty harmless, but still: there are several excellent Beach Boys historians on this board who've done tremendous amounts of work to set the record straight on many of the well-known Beach Boys myths. But there are still so many journalists who just keep recycling nonsense about Brian burning all the 'Smile' tapes, about Brian losing his mind after hearing 'Sgt. Pepper', about The Beach Boys not really doing anything noteworthy between 'Heroes and Villains' and 'Kokomo'... I think we, as fans, should complain about things like that. It's kind of our job, I suppose.

OT: Does your username have anything to do with Gorilla Biscuits?

I picked out ONLY two...there were plenty more in the article. What really bothered me, though, was the fact that:

1) They opened up with a question about Brian's depression, and how he felt about Robin Williams's suicide, which to me was bad form. You don't OPEN an interview with that...if I were Brian, I'd have hung up at that point

2) The linking to the 1981 performance of God Only Knows. Although that was probably the best performance from that show, that's like saying being shot is less painful than being stabbed. Why post a video from when Brian was at his nadir?! Tacky.

I just know how difficult it is to be a journalist in the digital age. I'm writing 6-8 articles a day, and mistakes slip through the cracks at times, no matter how hard I try for that not to be the case. Most of these articles are not researched, fact-checked and worked on for days, weeks or a month at a time. I'd blame the industry over the writer, but I also know why the industry changed. These sites and papers need to make money somehow.

And not to be super nit-picky, but just because songs were hits 45 years ago doesn't make them well known today. They're still lesser-known songs to people who only hear The Beach Boys on oldies satellite radio.

And yes, it is a GB reference.


I thought using the 1981 performance of God Only Knows was strange, as well. Why not use a clip from 1964 or one from the last 5-10 years?

I strongly suspect that, in this particular instance, "lesser-known" should be suffixed with "(by me)". Just because he's not au fait with them isn't grounds to assume that neither is everyone else.

I would say those songs are well known to Beach Boys fans and those who lived through the 60s and 70s, but not to the general public. I think we have trouble looking outside The Beach Boys bubble at times.

To the general public, Surfin' USA, California Girls, God Only Knows, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Good Vibrations, Kokomo, I Get Around, Fun Fun Fun, Help Me Rhonda, Little Deuce Coupe, Barbara Ann, Sloop John B and Surfer Girl might be the well-known songs, because they're still played on radio, commercials and in movies, and anything less might be lesser known.

"Eight Miles High" was a Top 20 hit for The Byrds, for example, and "All I Really Want To Do" was Top 40, and I don't know either one of those songs. Byrds fans would probably crucify me for saying they're lesser known, though.

Of course they are lesser known.
The normal people I know probably have never heard of them!  :)

The people surrounding me at both Hampton Court and Epsom Downs were stereotypical "normal people", and they were singing along to everything pretty much word perfect, even "Goin' To The Beach" and "Pisces Brothers".  :)

OK, I may have lied about those last two, but seriously, "Darlin'" got a huge response the moment Cowsill opened his mouth. The songs are known to the kind of person who comes to a Mike & Bruce show.

No offense, but that's a pretty terrible example. It's not very surprising that people who go to Beach Boys concerts know Beach Boys songs. Those are fans of the Beach Boys.

Categorizing people who go to Beach Boys concerts as "normal people" is pretty much the definition of having trouble looking outside the Beach Boys bubble.

I, a 28 year old, grew up on oldies music because my parents are baby boomers. My fiancee, who is also 28, didn't because her parents are younger, and she knows the hits and little else. That would apply to most of my friends, co-workers, colleagues, exes and enemies. They would almost certainly consider "Heroes & Villains" lesser known than "Help Me, Rhonda."

For pretty much anyone other than fans of music from the 60s and 70s -- which is a whittling population since that group is getting, ahem, older -- "Darlin" is a lesser-known song than say, "California Girls."

Just like "Eight Miles High" and "All I Really Want To Do" are lesser known than "Turn, Turn, Turn" and "Mr. Tambourine Man."

I'm not saying you guys are old or anything, but I can understand that you might be having trouble believing that there's an entire younger generation that couldn't hum a bar of Hawaii, Please Let Me Wonder, Marcella, or Shut Down if pressed.

Would we consider these deep cuts if included in an M+B show? No. But a Top 20 or 40 hit from 50 years ago isn't considered common knowledge to the general population. And The Desert Sun isn't an obscure Beach Boys fanzine. It's a newspaper written for the masses.

And therein lies a difference. Most journalists would love the luxury of being able to write stuff in their spare time, but a professional - doing it for a living - would probably have had to turn around dozens of stories in the time it would have taken you to write a piece about an obscure band that played for a handful of people. I'm sure if his editor would have been impressed if he had walked in to find the writer listening to a bunch of CDs in order to identify the rockers from the ballads, while the magazine or newspaper approached deadline with empty pages still to be filled. Once you start writing for a living, it often places demands that mean you have to structure your time in order to turn out volume. It's a terrible reflection of the modern day industry (or rather the proprietors' greed for income over quality, as if the two weren't related!) but it's a fact.

"...some pundits are already predicting it could be his next masterpiece.  Wilson said he wrote the songs and then found the artists that could perform them best.  'We lined up a few guest artists,' he said. 'We looked them up and checked them out and they checked out good.'...He considered using a recording he and Beck did of the Irish ballad, 'Danny Boy,' but, 'We didn't put it in the album. It just didn't fit the album very well.' Asked when the other material he recorded with Beck will be released, he said, 'Not soon.'"

This part brings out the cynic in me. 

Didn't Brian specifically want to work with Beck?  Now apparently all of that work has gone out the window.  Meanwhile, "we" decided that a trio of hot young chicks "checked out good" and will appear on the album...at least two of whom Brian had probably never previously heard of. 
 

Cool. That's one of my favorite bands.

Don't be cynical.  :)

And these same issues were hashed out in the new BW album thread.

Having said that, it does get under my skin just a bit to see the stuff again about Brian probably never hearing of such-and-such artist...Consider how many artists any of us as diehard music fans, not to mention musicians themselves, have *never* heard of let alone heard a note of music from until someone says the equivalent of "Hey, check this out..."

I read articles on a weekly basis especially in the guitar/musician universe where someone ends up working with, playing with, or even collaborating with a major artist from the most simple situation where that major artist heard something they liked and wanted to work with that person. Simple as that. And with social media, YouTube, Facebook, etc, it's as simple as someone posting a link to an online performance on their Facebook, someone else likes it and shares it forward, and who knows who may hear it and like it.

"Hey, check this out...". No different for Brian. Unless the standard for him is now different than pretty much the entirety of the popular music world.  ;D

Be thankful that Brian is being picky about what is going on this album....it says volumes about how much he cares about this project. The Beck collaboration didn't work out - if it's bad material I'm glad it won't end up on the album.

And ditto, Guitarfool - great post!

It's possible that they also decided to shelve it after seeing Jeff's reaction to it potentially being on the record. Don't worry, we'll undoubtedly hear the material at some point in the future. There's money to be made and if Capitol paid for it to be recorded, they'll want to maximize the return on their investment as much as possible in the future.

I often had very tight deadlines too (I might be an amateur, but I wrote for a professional magazine), plus I had to do all my writing in the evening, after I got home from my full time job.

You are assuming that Brian made the final decisions. That hasn't always been the case....for a long time actually.

I wonder if Ray Lawlor has seen the movie, what his thoughts are.

+1

It would be awesome to read any insight he may have.

Short article that mentions the movie: http://buffalo.com/2014/08/28/news/movies/tiff-5-radar-picks/ (http://buffalo.com/2014/08/28/news/movies/tiff-5-radar-picks/)

Man, the Mike Love hate is everywhere!  :-\

Whoa! A warning on the Al Pacino picture. Is that make-up or him for real?

It's making a lot of lists, nice to see some buzz is building.

If Brian wanted it on the album, it would be on the album.

True...unless maybe Captitol didn't want to put in on the record, but that's clearly not the reason. It comes down to Brian.

Just because the songs they did together aren't coming out now doesn't mean they won't *ever* be released. My guess is Brian decided they weren't a good fit for his and is either saving them for later, or has just set them aside without much thought into the future. The point is, its Brian's decision.

That's too bad, their version of "Danny Boy" was beautiful (I have not heard the recording, but did see when they did the tune on Jimmy Fallon's show).  Maybe it will turn up as a bonus track somewhere.

Beck said Danny Boy WILL be on the record.

Indeed, I was impressed by that Fallon performance. Sadly, Beck said that none of the material they worked on was completed. They spent time in the studio, but went on tour before anything was finished. So I'm doubtful at we'll hear anything from these sessions. I would love to be proved wrong though!

If it's anything like the Fallon performance, I hope Danny Boy ISN'T on the record. I guess it sounded okay, but Brian wasn't even audible, and it's supposed to be his performance. No thank you. If I wanted to not hear Brian, I wouldn't be listening to Brian.

I agree. Danny Boy sounded nothing like Brian Wilson and I feel that there's artists that mesh better with Brian than Jeff Beck. When I heard about a possible Brian/Beck album, I wasn't exactly thrilled. However, Jeff Beck is an excellent guitarist but it just doesn't work for some reason on a BW record.

Agreed. I posted the below comment after watching it.


Give me a new Brian Wilson original over this any day of the week.

Given it was written (I'm pretty sure) by the guy who's collaborating with Brian on AutoBio2, a degree of cynicism is justified, I feel. Tagging anything as a potential "masterpiece" is, also, just begging for grief. It could well be - I hope it is - but I seriously doubt those pundits have heard one note of it.

Re case of "lesser known" vs. "Top 40 hits", I'm siding with startbbtoday. All his points sound logical.

Sheesh, you Kokomaoists are so damned sensitive. That little jab was mild compared to what Mike was getting during the 1980's and 90's.

I wouldn't classify myself as a "Kokomaoist," just making a general observation!  I lean more toward the old school Brianista camp.

Must say for a nano second , I got rather excited  ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVnj-5rv3CY

Is there a way to send that guy a virus?

I think the text came from the recent Desert Sun article, which is mostly just parroting the Jason Fine press-statements-dressed-up-as-journalism anyway.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/stephen-hawking-brian-wilson-among-subjects-toronto-film-130008643.html

"Love & Mercy": Brian Wilson, the troubled mastermind behind '60s American pop titans the Beach Boys, is portrayed by John Cusack and Paul Dano in his older and younger years in this feature from Bill Pohlad, the decorated producer behind "12 Years a Slave" and "Brokeback Mountain" who last directed a film in 1990. Paul Giamatti and Elizabeth Banks round out a talented cast, and God only knows there's fertile dramatic material here: Wilson struggled with serious mental health issues even as he pushed the Beach Boys to impossible creative highs.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/toronto-stars-power-15-hottest-728378

Love & Mercy (CAA/Lionsgate)

Director: Bill Pohlad

Stars: John Cusack, Paul Dano, Elizabeth Banks, Paul Giamatti

Buzz: This biopic about Brian Wilson of Beach Boys fame is the directorial debut of the respected financier-producer, whose credits include 12 Years a Slave. Dano's performance as a young version of the singer is said to be impressive.

Never say that again.

Say what? B-Dubs?

Watch your tone.

That's what his peeps call him, after all. His posse. The Pet Posse.

Is B-Pain ok?

How about "B-Wubs"

error

Watch your pone.

This is so dramatic. I won't reply to such drama any further.

:lol

Yeah baby, bought my ticket just now! I'll be there for the Premiere Sunday night  ;D

Anyone else coming?

If you can stop by and pick me up, I'll buy a ticket...

K I'll check with the train driver if its possible

Heck, if you've got your own train it shouldbn't be any problemo!!

 :lol

Heck!

Lucky man

Report back in detail!

Honestly, I have zero hope that this biopic is going to be any better than the previous attempts at telling the BB/BW story through film that isn't a documentary.

John Cusack is just so fuckin' John Cusacky that all his attempts at acting are just like "oh, wow, look at John Cusack pretending that he's not John Cusack."

Paul Dano has the potential to play a pretty good Brian Wilson, but John Cusack was the wrong choice. Sorry, friends.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Must_Love_Dogs.jpg)

He does the B-Dubs walk pretty well.

As the premiere is coming up soon, here's a mini-trailer from the script to whet your appetite (tiny spoiler alert):

Scene 3 INT. WESTERN RECORDING STUDIO FEBRUARY 1964

We come up on 16mm footage shot in the recording studio as THE BEACH BOYS lay vocals for "DON'T WORRY BABY"

From SCENE 40 (INT. MUSIC ROOM. MURRY WILSON'S HOUSE) Brian plays a "very rough, early version" of GOD ONLY KNOWS for his father:

Murry: Frankly, if you really want to know, I don't care for it. It's too wishy-washy. "If you leave me, why leave me? Life will go on. Why go on living?" It's not like a Beach Boys song. Your brothers are going to hate it.
Brian-Past (devastated): "It's a love song."
Murry: "It's a suicide note."

One more.

SCENE 46 INT. WESTERN RECORDING STUDIO 3 - DAY

BRIAN-PAST (to dogs):

"Stop barking! We got it!"

Sweet

Brian-Past "We gotta get out while we're young.  `Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run "

Unfortunately, the majority of actors end up being a case of “Oh, there’s so-and-so trying to act like he’s not so-and-so”, and often they don’t even try to act like they’re not themselves. Oh, there’s Brad Pitt. Nope, he’s not whatever character he’s supposed to be in the movie. He’s Brad Pitt shooting zombies. Oh, Morgan Freeman, he’s amazing, except that he’s just playing the same character in every movie he’s in: himself. I’m not being sarcastic. I end up often preferring unknown actors (as long as they have some acting talent of course) in many roles. There are a few really great well-known actors who can actually take you out of the headspace of just seeing that famous actor. But it’s pretty rare.

The actors with all the weird idiosyncrasies are the worst. Hell, some directors are that way too. Oh great, it’s Tim Burton, so we know the movie will have Johnny Depp, Helena Bonham Carter, will be emo and steampunk, and Johnny Depp will play a super quirky character.

I dunno, Cusack might actually be bland enough to make the movie a bit more credible. If they’re truly doing away with the strictly chronological format, that’s proably a good start. “Summer Dreams” and “An American Family” didn’t succeed with that format.

Meanwhile, perhaps someone will piece together a “Beatles Anthology”-sized Beach Boys documentary; get the surviving guys on camera for thorough interviews while they’re still alive. I can’t fathom why this hasn’t been attempted. “Endless Harmony” was just fine for what it was, but something longer and more epic is needed.

I will!

i have been hoping for to happen for years. EH just didnt cut it for what it needed to be

The Beach Boys story has so many layers to it that it needs to be told over a 3-4 doco

Use existing footage from previous interviews aswell like the Beatles Anthology but so much more needs to be told

Under the circumstances, Alan Boyd did a wonderful job directing Endless Harmony within the restrictions that were imposed on the project. I'm sure that he would have liked to have included more footage (chiefly, Add Some Music To Your Day from Get It Together) but time and budget constraints just wouldn't allow it.

With so much footage available (authorised and otherwise), one could “roll their own” documentary, although an official and comprehensive documentary would be most welcome!

Today's the day (Irish time  ;D)

Can't wait for the reports and pics. Hopefully this movie is Brilliant!

BW.com are all over it....


Admin Updates
Updates from BrianWilson.com administrator including news of interest to Brian Wilson and Beach Boys fans.      

USA TODAY Exclusive:
08/05/13 by ADMIN

 :lol

What a joke that site is. The last news deemed relevant was over a year ago. Some of the $400 for the Chase tickets could pay someone who can read and keep the site up to date.

Brian attends the premiere:


https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/photos/a.10150280134817241.345966.34250497240/10152681645217241/?type=1&theater

Very cool that Brian is attending

Ooh - the reviews should be in very soon...

-

My local legendary sports columnist, Sid Hartman (a nonagenarian still at it), mentioned the movie in his column this morning. Not exactly a natural topic for a sports blurb, but the Minnesota Twins baseball team are owned by the Pohlad family; Bill Pohlad is the director. Nothing especially exciting in the mention though. More just an unexpected mention.

"• Twins owner Bill Pohlad’s “Love & Mercy,” a biographical film about Beach Boys lead singer Brian Wilson, will premier at the Toronto International Film Festival on Sunday night. It’s the first movie Pohlad has directed since 1990 and is considered an awards contender. It tells two stories of Wilson’s life, one set in the 1960s and one in the 1980s."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/274237561.html?page=2&c=y

Several people stated that no BBs music is gonna be played in the movie. Im OK with that, but I think they really need to put well know music in the trailer, so the general public can be atracted by the movie. Some snippet of Wouldn' it be nice or California girls for example.

Has this been officially verified though?

They're wrong.

They are very wrong

Well I hope I'm wrong too! In fact, in my opinion, it would be impossible to make a movie about Brian/BBs without including their music, at least little snippets here and there. But I've read it in 2 o 3 places, for example from Wikipedia (soundtrack part):

English composer Atticus Ross was commissioned for an original score.[27] Of Wilson's music being incorporated in the film, director Bill Pohlad clarified, "We're not thinking about this as the hit parade—that would be the biopic thing."[13]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_and_Mercy_(film)#Soundtrack

Here's the full excerpt that Wikipedia doesn't show:

 :woot

Just a little over 7 hours away. I hope it's good.

 :ohyeah

Brian lookin good

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw-PTU3IEAAqDwx.jpg)

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/09/08/business/subPohlad/subPohlad-master675.jpg)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/business/media/filmmaker-William-Pohlad-pins-hopes-on-a-beach-boy.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/business/media/filmmaker-William-Pohlad-pins-hopes-on-a-beach-boy.html?_r=0)

Holy moly

There is something very strange about this photo.

Guitarfool will have a field day with that photo

Just logging in after the weekend away...yep, my field day is in full gear!  ;D

Columbia studios, circa 1966. They got the unique console Columbia had at that time, with the massive patch bay behind the board. Really cool. Can't wait to see the whole thing!

It can be tough to source original gear like that which is 50 years old and in many cases long gone or parted out...if not scrapped. Check out how many original Bill Putnam modular consoles/boards exist in 2014. I know Neil Young owns one, the board which Wally Heider used for mobile live recordings still exists, I believe Mark Linett owns a Western board from Studio 2, but apart from that they're not easy to find. Columbia's board setup was so unique, I'm thinking they could come close mocking it up without finding the original and that photo looks pretty good.

Did I hear it correct that they filmed studio scenes at Ocean Way because the location folks must have thought it had the best "vintage" look? Or was it another LA studio? Can't recall.

Looks like were going for a composite effect for the set and costuming in that frame: And it looks to be based on the Western and Columbia film footage from the GV sessions in '66, and I'm guessing also those still photos of Brian, Tony Asher, Terry Melcher, and Bruce at Columbia in '66 were a visual/historical reference. In those you can see that odd patch bay setup clear and in color. Finding a replica is another story...

Western showing Brian wearing that vest, then Brian working the Columbia Studio A board in '66:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianmarilyn.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/briancolumbiaboard.jpg)

Brian, Tony, Terry, Bruce at Columbia's board 1966:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/petsounds2.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/petsounds1.jpg)

Please tell me there will be a movie review with the title, "I wasn't sitting in a crummy movie with my hands on my chin."

:lol

Rave reviewing pouring in on twitter from people who attended the screening, standing ovations etc

Very good news

Twitter is loving this film!!!!!!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/arts-video/video-love-and-mercy-stars-at-tiff-on-depicting-brian-wilsons-life/article20464970/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

Awesome!

Hey guys, just got back from watching the movie...and I gotta say, it was amazing!

Overall, my rating is 2 very enthusiastic thumbs up. The film was not perfect, but it did a great job and I think a lot of people in the theater left with more appreciation towards Brian's life and what he had to endure.

So here's my review.

First, the production of the movie is incredible. They managed to recreate every single detail we've seen in photos and videos. Particularly good was the recreation of Brian (Paul Dano) performing Surfs Up solo on the piano for the Bernstein special. And I gotta say, Paul Dano did an amazing job singing and playing. In the end credits I read Darian was his music coach, so that explains a lot.

But aside from his singing (and a pretty good falsetto), he was the best in the cast. The mid 60s scenes were awesome and he did a fine job showing Brian's increasing mental deterioration. I think he has a great career ahead, top actor.

John Cusak was competent in the older Brian role. They didnt do much of an effort to make him look like Brian - actually that kind of sucked sometimes, since John is so John - but some of the scenes with Landy were very dramatic and he did good. Paul Giamatti (hope that's how its spelled) was a bit over the top, but then again from what I've read, Landy was like that in real life. You got to watch the scene when he's forcing Brian to finish up 'Driving to Heaven in my car'...its really tough and sad.

I saw Elizabeth Banks up close and personal when I was getting to my seat  ;D Not only she's pretty but carried the role of Melinda pretty well. Its obvious the script wanted to put Melinda as Brian's savior and make her the reason why the guy is alive nowadays and so Elizabeth played the part strongly.

But the rest of the cast and how their characters were presented was kind of weak. Van Dyke Parks for example hardly gets 2 scenes, doesnt talk much and seems like he's not really important. They changed the lyrics discussion from Cabinessence to Heroes and Villains (the snuff bit), so that was kind of lame.

Murray gets a big part and its shown in all his evilness. They even showed him hitting kid Brian and making him deaf...and to this day I dont know if thats true or not, since I've seen interviews of Brian saying he was born deaf...so...aucune idee la

The Boys are not really worked as characters. Mike gets to be the asshole, but in a justifiable way if I may say. He's always shown as worrying about the band and how Brian is losing touch with their public's interest. I mean, I (we) know a bit more of the story, but I can understand if people who dont know much about the band would side with him. Since the Van Dyke's characters was not really built up, Mike's kicking him away seemed rather appropriate in the context of the movie. Anyways.

There was a good scene with Hal Blaine talking with Brian in the parking lot and comforting him, saying the boys were going to love what he recorded for Pet Sounds. But aside from that and a quick scene with Carol Kaye complaining about bass keys, not much was discussed about the Wrecking Crew.

Carl and Dennis got a couple of lines during the early days, but not much after. Al and Bruce practically didnt exist. Marylin looked really cute actually, I wonder who played her? Checking later on IMDB.

But then again the movie was about Brian and Melinda, so 90% was Paul Dano/John Cusack and Elizabeth Banks. The last scene was when she almost ran him over and then took him to visit his old house on Hawthorne to find they built a highway on it. And as they hug and kiss, Wouldnt it be nice plays over.

A little nice detail though, the closing credits were played over Love and Mercy sang live by Brian, with concert footage. When the song was over, we all stood up and applauded Brian for almost 5 mins. Standing ovation!

But one thing I really, really didnt like, was how so stupid some people in the audience were. During some really sad scenes, like when Brian was saying stuff like 'I dont get to talk to my family' or 'like I got this mental problem...since 1963', some people were laughing as if it was something funny. John  Cusack did a good job in getting Brian's impersonal way of talking, so its sounds somehow comical, but for the love of God, the guy who suffered this ordeal is there, in the audience!!! Show some respect  >:(

Aside from that, the venue was cool, the screening and the atmosphere was Hollywood style. I recorded most of the Q&A session and Brian leaving the theater - it was funny everyone was there to take pics of John Cusack, and when he left, most left...so I could move up front and scream at Brian like a mad man  ;D ...actually I didnt, I'm a fan, not a crazy stalker  ::)

Anyways, hope this review gives you some insight to the movie. I recommended it completely, the focus is not the drugs but Brian's mental health struggle. I think it was a nice treatment of his life.

Gotta leave now and get some sleep, I'm catching the 6:00 am train back to Montreal. I'll share some of the pics and the Q&A session tomorrow night.

Bonne nuit a tous!

^^^^^^^

Awesome review schiaffino and thanks very much for sharing

cant wait to see at least the trailer for it

Should probably blank out spoilers.

I get we all know what happened in real life, but it is a film after all, not a documentary.

Many many thanks schiaffino, much appreciated and delighted you had such a great night.

Also delighted you're not a stalker… (did you grab me a lock of his hair?¿?¿?)

Hope we get to see this film in the UK and soon.

Did you say that in 1997 when Titanic came out?



Just bustin' your chops...no offense meant, more of a joke. :lol

Excellent review in Hollywood Reporter:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/love-mercy-toronto-review-730952 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/love-mercy-toronto-review-730952)

Probably because it WAS, released nearly three months after Pet Sounds.

Yup...probably was thinking of Rubber Soul

Thanks for posting the early, firsthand review! Looking forward to seeing it get a full release. If the reaction from the premiere so far is any indication, that won't be too far away.

Does it show Carl as being involved in removing Brian from Landy at all?

That would be my question to any who attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0MgXG29Chk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0MgXG29Chk&feature=youtu.be)

https://twitter.com/zackmamba/status/508847826055749632/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/zackmamba/status/508847826055749632/photo/1)

https://twitter.com/NadiaNeophytou/status/508834791446552577/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/NadiaNeophytou/status/508834791446552577/photo/1)

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/f824e43b1d214a66bd9c8f66d69ec901/preview.jpg?wm=api)

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6d192024759d48f0b1a50eb3e14c1ff5/preview.jpg?wm=api)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/08/article-2747469-212AEE5200000578-912_634x576.jpg)

(http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/454909336-director-bill-pohlad-and-singer-songwriter-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QcJEltNgl6k71i5Lg%2beiNoRw7CdgQooz1dAgHue4iV4QTlPz9AG%2fpJ071dQqLD7lQQ%3d%3d)

Wonder how Brian reacted to it?

From the review: Leave it to scholars of Beach Boys lore to evaluate the way screenwriters Oren Moverman and Michael Alan Lerner distill the long, complicated timeline in which courts eventually removed Wilson from Landy's custody; since this film views Ledbetter as the catalyst of Wilson's recovery (they married in 1995 and remain together), it emphasizes her role in gathering evidence of Landy's misconduct.

From reading that, I'm thinking Melinda's efforts (however subtle they may or may not have been) are made the focal point for the sake of the dramatic narrative, at the expense of others perhaps (Gary Usher, Stan Love, Carl?) I haven't seen the movie, so idk. But hey, it is a movie. Artistic liberties are gonna be taken.

That said, i can't wait to see it. This "Driving to Heaven in my car (Let's Go To Heaven In My Car?)" scene has got my mouth watering  :p cause i luv that song, not cause of how sad the scene apparently is   

Yes, they are going to take liberties. Absolutely.

Just as a personal thing though. The Brian and Melinda love story is not one I am particularly interested in watching. She has clearly been great for Brian but it doesn`t do it for me from a thematic point of view. I may well be alone in feeling that way though.

.

Nope it has Melinda calling Carl but we don't see not hear him. Again it's all Melinda rescuing Brian.

Based purely on what I've read thus far, looks encouraging even though there's been some recasting of historical fact, as stated here and elsewhere. Looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks all for the info and links. Definitely looks promising. Can't wait to see this. Is there a release date yet?

I'm stoked. Wouldn't it be nice if we could already watch the movie, in a world where we wouldn't have to wait so long? And after having watched the movie together, talk about it on Smiley Smile the whole night through?

The change to the "sunny down snuff" lyrics in the fight is interesting. Can anyone confirm if this was done to highlight the dig at Mike's snuff habit? Otherwise, it just seems so random. Maybe they thought audiences would be more likely to understand and possibly even recognize "Heroes and Villains"? The "crow cries" example just sums up the real situation so perfectly. If you actually spent any real time analyzing the lyrics in the outro of the song, you'd quickly see what's going on:

Over and over
The crow cries uncover the cornfield
Over and over
The thresher and hover the wheat field

NOW, LET'S SWITCH TWO PHRASES:

Over and over
The crow cries and hover(s) the wheat field
Over and over
The thresher uncover(s) the cornfield

I believe there's a term for what Parks did, but maybe not. And still, to this day, it's unlikely Mike has figured the riddle out.

It's just funny that the neither An American Family or Love & Mercy are willing to show this part of the story as it really happened. And why not? It shows Brian and Parks at their most brilliant (musically and lyrically) and Love at his densest.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/tiff-review-love-mercy-starring-paul-dano-john-cusack-elizabeth-banks-paul-giamatti-20140908

Great thanks for offering a review, and a detailed one at that. I suppose the "thumbs" rating system doesn't offer as much room for nuance, but the tone of your review sounds more like the film should get maybe a 7 or 8 out of 10, which is probably the best we could ever hope for.

I was hoping the "Melinda as savior" thing wouldn't get overplayed. Guess we'll have to all see for ourselves. It's also unfortunate if the other BB's were once again underplayed. Even the most staunch "pro-Brian" and "anti-the rest of the BB's" fans would have to agree the other guys are a big part of the story. Then again, the producers of the film may have tread lightly regarding the other living BB's due to the possibility of lawsuits, etc.

I've seen Giamatti in enough stuff, I already have at least an idea of how he would play Landy. I'm not sure there would be the right nuance in playing Landy (he was often, at least in interviews, kind of more smarmy tone-wise rather than loud and boistrous), but he's probably as good of a choice as any "name" actor.

Some of the press over the past year or two on the film has made it sound like it would be rather "unconventional", but it's sounding like it's a relatively traditional biopic, just one that jumps around a lot simply to emphasize two specific periods in Brian's life and more than anything due to time contraints.

Great review schiaffino! Glad you got to go. I can't wait to see this in a theater.

Also, I still think the perfect opening for a BBs movie would be Brian walking along the shore at the rented beach house Landy had him in, with "Male Ego" playing in the background as he stumbles clumsily over the rocks. He looks nervously at girls passing by as the song continues. As the song fades, we cut to the car dealership where he meets Melinda.

Great review, thanks for this! Very psyched to see the film.

Great shots. Has Brian lost some weight?

I want to know more about the music in the film

I read they made great use of pet sounds and smile multi tracks

Yeah - kind of a standard narrative in that it's following the patten of the redemption from mental illness narrative that I thought would have been beneath Oren Moverman after seeing I'm Not There. The problem with reducing people's lives into conventional storytelling patterns is that you render those lives entirely inauthentic as a result.

I also think it's unfortunate that they are replaying scenes that we have seen in previous Beach Boys biopics. I think at this point you can tell the Smile story without the "Mike Love challenges the lyrics" scene.

Anyway, doesn't sound like the movie that I would make but, whatever, it does sound enjoyable.

It's too bad his cousin Mike couldn't be there with him to celebrate...

You mean in the same way that Al and David are in all of the pictures?  ;)

well, yeah

Will def buy this movie when it comes out on Blue Ray. Looks great from what I can tell. Thanks Brian and the people around him for making this possible.

Schiaffino, thanks for taking the time. Good review!

Maybe I missed it scanning through the thread, but does anyone know when or if this will be in general release in theaters?  Wonder if it will be a limited or broad release......

From the reviews I anticipate it will be difficult to watch the whole thing with both eyes open.  But I will watch for sure first chance I get.  And yeah, I'll no doubt buy the video to add to my already ridiculous collection of beachboys product.

Looks like Brian is wearing is shirt out and long jacket to hide a very big gut.  I want to see this movie.

I don't know. I've seen many other shots where Brian has his shirt out, and his weight looked much greater. In the top shot especially, looks like there is a big change.

Per the LA Times this morning, the film does not yet have a distributor, hence no release date...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/filmfestivals/la-et-mn-toronto-assess-20140908-story.html#page=1

It's t he angle of the photo. Pictures from the same day (earlier)  show a different story.

Yes, they did an amazing job. Only a few songs were performed in their entirety, I remember Sloop John B (the pool video recreation), Love and Mercy in the closing credits and Surfs Up (Brian/Dano solo performance). But if you dont mind some spoilers, here's a quick list of the best musical moments in the movie:

• My fav, Brian (Dano) sitting next to his house pool alone and sad after the failure of Smile - this to the sound of 'Cool Cool Water'
• A dream sequence after Brian (Cusack) leaves Landy, where he sees himself in bed at different ages in his life, while visited in his dreams by Murray, Landy, Melinda - this to a mix of different songs, but ending with a beautifully haunting 'Till I die'
• When Brian (Dano) was recording Good Vibrations and he spends days and days on the cellos; at one moment Mike's cries out of desperation and Brian (Dano) says 'if you dont want to be here, Mike, you can wait outside the studio'
• Brian (Dano) recording Caroline No, I think Dano did the singing here and it was really, really moving; later in the scene Murray comes in to play the Boys the new single from the other band he tried to produced The Sunrays' or sth like that (?)
• Brian (Dano) playing God Only Knows to Murray as a preview and they getting into an argument after about the lyrics and the production. Cool thing is how Dano starts of singing and playing in a shy way and then gets into it as Brian surely did with his dad (I can imagine Brian really nervous whenever he sought Murray's feedback)
• The Wrecking Crew playing Fire, all wearing firemen hats, and Brian (Dano) taking some burning wood ( I think) and running around with it in the studio. Everyone in the control booth was looking at Brian as if he'd gone mad, cool scene

• And a cheesy scene where Brian (Cusack) plays an early riff of Love and Mercy to Melinda when she visits his house the first time. He said he thought of it the moment he met her, not sure if thats accurate...

When I get home tonight from work I'll post a couple of more impressions, see if I can get the photos and Q&A video uploaded.

Cheers!

Video footage of snippets of interviews from a few of the lead actors at the premier; they say stuff about Brian.  :)

http://vimeo.com/m/105526979 (http://vimeo.com/m/105526979)

Is it mentioned in the movie that Mike had 6 wives?

 :lol Nope

Forgot to mention, Shady, that during Q&A the director said that they recreated all the songs (and song parts) using professionals musicians! And what they did to make it more authentic was to mix some of the new recordings with actual BBs ones, so in some songs you get a mix of Paul Dano and Brian singing!

Thought that was amazing.

and also during Q&A Paul Dano said the most difficult thing was to shoot the scene where he plays Surfs Up. Its all him, the singing and playing, and that was apparently his first day in the shooting. So he said he was scared to death, but managed to pull it off quite nicely  :)[/list]

Hopefully i'll be able to "Catch a Wave" on this and much like that one year where there were suddenly tons of meteor movies, i'll get the greenlight for my long cherished Ed Harris project LOVE AND BITTERNESS. I'm told that Stamos is especially keen to play Stamos.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14995000738_85ff1b2624.jpg)

Good God, I looked at that picture many times before I realized it was Ed Harris.

See?! SEE!? It's a no brainer. It can cut back and forth between two crucial periods of his life, the heady days of Kokomo and that time he met the Beatles in India. Think of the cutlery montage.

It would no doubt work but the title is too negative.  What can we do to project some positivity, maybe add some of the boy-girl dynamic so the people can "get it"...

"It's a Love Thing" -- positivity, redemption, and the possibility of yogic flying set against a backdrop of protracted legal battles and relentless touring. BOX OFFICE GOLD.

Ok! Back to Brian. Stamos... (makes call me gesture)

Not sure how to post pictures, but there are 2 cool ones on Brian's facebook page, one from the movie, and one from the premiere.


https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson

See, now I'm sucked in..

Thanks to all for the info and reviews, specially schiaffino. Im so glad that this movie is getting nothing but good reviews. In some time we'll see if its great, very good or just good, but at least its not bad, that was my worry. Now we just have to wait for the trailer.

http://biffbampop.com/2014/09/08/tiff-2014-love-and-mercy-reviewed/ (http://biffbampop.com/2014/09/08/tiff-2014-love-and-mercy-reviewed/)

During the actual filming, several of the "actors" portraying the various studio musicians had dropped hints indirectly about this without actually saying what the director said yesterday or the description of Dano recreating Inside Pop. The 'actors' playing the Wrecking Crew were/are actually professional musicians, such as Teresa Cowles who plays Carol Kaye...she is a working pro bass player and performer. So having the director confirm this is pretty cool, and it puts into context the few photos posted to Instagram/Twitter/Facebook/etc that had candid shots of these musicians dressed in 60's garb between takes of the studio scenes.

They not only played the roles but according to the Q&A they played the music too. I cannot wait to see and hear how they edited all of this together into a finished product. Quite a daunting task.

As far as the musical skills of some of the actors, remember there were photos and postings about a live jam session they all had at one point with Brian on stage at a wrap party or some similar event, jamming through some of the hits.

I like this more current practice of having the actors themselves actually play and sing the parts, then finding that balance between the originals and the new recreations. It's not a new thing, recall Gary Busey playing Buddy Holly including the musical performances, but the bar has been set pretty high for how this is done in these kinds of films where the music is as much a star as the actors themselves.

Photos like this one of Teresa Cowles:  ;)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/teresacowles_zps5004a390.jpg)

Thanks for the reports!  Must see this soon.  I was so worried that it would be a disaster or let down like some of the previous attempts.  Seems like all reviews thus far (from attendees and pro critics) are quite positive.

Now I want to know what will be on the soundtrack!!!

http://fridaynightboys300.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/love-and-mercy-brian-wilson-biopic.html

I couldnt agree more with this review.

Another "screenshot" courtesy of Claudia Graf.
(http://s27.postimg.org/5ktyeywqb/925968_1489990447926280_2020306739_n.jpg)

Actor on right. Carl?

Beard alert...Beard alert!

Nope, one of Landy's goons

Any hint of a release date for this thing?

I think the guy manning the grill looks more like Brian than Cuasck does.

Thats Paul Giamatti... and I agree. In that picture he does look more like Brian.  :lol

I honestly thought it was Brian at first, then I saw Cusask and got confused ;D

We should know pretty soon

The film, which does not have a U.S. distributor but has attracted substantial buyer interest since its premiere at the festival

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-toronto-film-festival-john-cusack-paul-dano-brian-wilson-s-20140908-story.html#page=1 (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-toronto-film-festival-john-cusack-paul-dano-brian-wilson-s-20140908-story.html#page=1)

Credit to all involved, Love & Mercy has had a very successful showing at the festival

http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2014/09/danos-wilson-love-mercy-staggering/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
Another stellar review.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/09/08/toronto-beach-boy-brian-wilson-gets-standing-ovation-for-outstanding-biopic
Some interesting notes from this article: The movie, by the way, won’t help Wilson family relations. Beach Boy Mike Love, a cousin, always known as a creep, comes off just that way.

Lions Gate has international rights, they may release “Love and Mercy” in the US if someone else doesn’t. The movie’s a hit, though. And it’s so great that Brian Wilson has gotten a decent film document of his enormous cultural legacy.

I like that! A very quirky & inspired opening. From reading schiaffino's review (thanks for that, btw!), i'd say Let's Go To Heaven In My Car would've been perfect to play over that last scene.

The reviews both officially published in the trades and firsthand from other viewers and bloggers seem unanimous so far - it's a damn fine film! With this much positive talk from one screening at the film fest, I agree, I don't think getting a distributor will be an issue at this point.

Now my question for those who saw it - How was the "woodie" station wagon seen that was being debated a few months ago handled in the film? Was that later-model car from the on-set photos used to represent the Surfin Safari Model A truck?

Silly, I know, but my curious nature got the best of me. I gotta know.  ;D

Brian watching the movie

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw-7YDFIcAAvUeo.jpg)

Brian leaving the movie

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw--i-LIIAAKCju.jpg)


I'd love to know what he really thought of it and what it was like for him to see his life on screen. Guess we'll never know.

well he's got that autobiography that's supposed to come out next yr. Maybe he'll give his thoughts on it in there.

But yah, sitting right there in the audience. What'a trip that must've been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQUG0ekNaM0 Brian somewhat "collapsing" at the screening. Hopefully he was ok. Looks like he awkwardly tried to stand up and kinda tripped.

Hey Shady, you got one of Brian takin' a wiz?

A close-up!!

How about it? I think it says a lot about the man to be able to watch those incredibly tough scenes of his life play out on screen, and to be in the middle of the whole thing ending in a standing ovation from those around him, taking it all in graciously and with a smile. My takeaway is that he is a survivor, and at many times in the past 45 years or so the odds would have been against Brian Wilson, yet he is still creating music for his fans and putting smiles on their faces. Inspiring.

You wish.

Seriously though, I'll have a look if I can find one.

Well put.  My sincerest hope is that one day either during this lifetime or in the great beyond, he realizes that in spite of the pain he has endured, how many lives his music has saved.

Poor guy can't even watch a movie in peace......

Probably didn't care for it as much as Norbit. 

Just read on wiki that the distributor is Lions Gate Entertainment, I hope that's true!!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_and_Mercy_(film)

Lion's Gate will distribute the film internationally. They've yet to find a distributor for the US.

 :lol That's funny!

I wonder if there were any reports of hooligans, street toughs, and various ne'er-do-wells talking loudly and throwing popcorn and Sno-Caps in that theater.  :-D

I share that hope. Count me among the many helped and inspired by that music.

Yeah! Slide into the row behind him and crinkle candy wrappers, smack your lips eating popcorn, and shake the cup of ice to see if there's any Coke left to slurp up the straw.

No, seriously. I'd like to see some close-up shots of Brian's face watching "Seconds".

Thanks to everyone that posted links to reviews and first hand accounts from the screening.  One lingering question that I can't say has been conclusively answered: is there a mixture of newly recorded BB/BW music with original music?  I gather that at least Dano does perform some songs?

For a laugh, I went back and read something I wrote two summers ago.  It was a treatment for a movie about Brian Wilson.  Silly and self-indulgent is all I'll say.  But I can't help but compare what the structure wound up as and what I wrote.  Needless to say, juxtaposing 80's Brian and 60's Brian is the most inspired way to do this story.  And there had to be a through line I guess, that would be Melinda "saving" Brian.

If your interested in reading what I'm referring to...don't laugh too hard:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=13419.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=13419.0)

I can't wait to see "Love & Mercy" myself.

The music in the film has been covered by schiaffino. Paul Dano does sing.

Thanks!  Hopefully we'll get an official soundtrack release!

That would be fantastic!

http://variety.com/2014/film/reviews/toronto-film-review-love-mercy-1201301472/
Paul Dano and John Cusack bring the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson to life in Bill Pohlad's vibrant cure for the common musical biopic.

This keeps sounding better and better.  I am so excited for this.

I guess with these positive reviews marketing people will start looking at link-ups such as a soundtrack album.

Well done to those involved with the movie BTW. Sounds like a winner!

yeah I thought maybe he stood up and kind of fell forward, maybe because of his back? I know that he has had back problems it looks like he stood up and lost his balance, the video ends so quickly it's hard to tell, but if he had Collapsed I would think it would have been in the media.

Well put. I'm sure that if Brian HAD REALLY collapsed at the screening of his own biopic, someone would, by now, have announced that they were going to make a movie about the 50 years leading up to that moment.

Guardian review confirms my fears: Melinda is inspirational hero; BB are just fools in the way of genius..........
any film that builds toward "love as mercy" aesthetically or conceptually is bound to be a bore.

no thanks

However you may perceive her as a 'villain', to Brian, she undoubtedly has been inspirational and a saviour as far as Brian is concerned. Perhaps to make it of more interest dramatically, he should have died of an overdose in the early 80s. You know, the downbeat ending = good drama school of thought.

From what I've read, she's portrayed as the sole heroine who liberated Brian, and that's simply not the case. The lawsuit that lead directly to Landy's hold over Brian being broken was instigated May 7th 1991 by the family: Carl, Audree, Wendy & Carnie. As far as anyone's aware, Melinda didn't renew contact with Brian until summer 1993. Not denying she gave Brian somewhere where he could feel secure and productive, nor that she was instrumental in instigating the two major moments in his solo career... but the single person who freed Brian from Landy's malign influence, no. Maybe the reviewer has it wrong. We'll see. Have to say, from all the current reviews, the movie looks set to be way better than pretty much any of us here dared hope.

"Brian, what's your favorite movie ?"

"Love & Mercy"

"What's the last movie you saw ?"

"Love & Mercy"

:lol

Not me. ;D I've been psyched since screenwriters/producers/director were announced. Casting Giamatti and Dano is the cherry on top. :)

I'd be surprised if the movie wasn't a little loose with the more complicated truth over the conservatorship. Having Melinda act as the driving force streamlines the narrative, reduces the need for more involved secondary characters and increases the reputation of Melinda for the audience.

I'm not saying Melinda had any influence in the script being written that way, it's just a standard Hollywood story of the saviour and redemption.

But i'm still looking forward to it.

Oh ok, I don't really understand the whole process of that type of situation, I love movies, but how they're produced and the distribution and what not will always be a mystery to me. 😉

I've stayed away from these threads generally because I'm not a fan of biopics as they rarely do their subject justice in my opinion (The Beatles have had some horrendous ones).  The main problem with them is they tend to skew towards one side of the story instead of giving the viewer a bird's eye view of a lot of the events in question.  That being said, I think this film will do much in terms of elevating Brian Wilson's public profile and making people aware of his struggles and plights which can only be a good thing in my opinion for circumstances that extend far beyond Brian.  As guitarfool mentioned, Brian Wilson is a survivor and his story should be shared with the general public. 

Again though the qualms I have regarding this film are in line with my problems with biopics in general.  From reading comments and reviews, it seems that once again in mapping out the plot, Hollywood has decided to cast people in roles of heroes and villains where as it pertains to the story of The Beach Boys (or life in general) the roles are far more fluid.  It has been said that Mike Love for example has been cast in a negative light in this film and while I don't consider myself to be a Mike Love apologist, casting him in that role is patently unfair.  What is worse that since this film has the potential to reach many eyes, it could be taken/written into history that Mike Love was as he appeared in this film which against is not only grossly unfair but in many ways inaccurate as well. 

The irony is that the "Brian as a survivor" narrative has been used to sell Brian's work probably starting with 1976 (Brian's Back), but even in the Landy era. I don't think i've read an article on Brian's solo work that hasn't made mention of the backstory, which let's face it, is gold for journalists :)

This^, and especially regarding Carl Wilson, who from what we have read, took it very, very hard with what HE had to do in reference to Brian's conservatorship. And, maybe they did address the Carl angle significantly; if so I stand to be corrected. Admittedly, I haven't been following this film very closely for reasons that John Mill eloquently addressed above.

Sherriff, you're right about Carl -- I witnessed some of the toll the whole Landy affair took on him.  :(

Here's a somewhat different take on the film from MacLeans:
http://www.macleans.ca/culture/tiff-2014-diary-getting-good-vibrations-with-brian-wilson/

"Monday was a six-interview day, which left precious little time for anything but fretting over how I would embarrass myself in front of someone famous. Yet somehow I squeezed in a screening of Love & Mercy between all the neuroses, and was mostly glad for the distraction. The drama by first-time director (and long-time producer) Bill Pohlad chronicles two halves of Brian Wilson’s life: his early days with the Beach Boys, where he’s played with twitchy glee by Paul Dano, and his mid-fifties, in the form of John Cusack. (Let’s put aside the fact that Dano and Cusack look nothing like each other.)

"Naturally, the soundtrack is unimpeachable, and Pohlad offers a riveting look at how Wilson crafted such aural wonders as 'God Only Knows' and 'Good Vibrations.' Cusack, too, is captivating, and offers one of his best performances in years as the sheltered and lonely Wilson, stuck under the watchful eye of a shady Dr. Eugene Landy (Paul Giamatti, practically twirling an evil moustache). Still, the film goes to painful lengths to paint Wilson as a music god, turning the biography into hagiography. The closing credits emphasizing that Wilson is 'one of the greatest musical minds ever' push the film into an insultingly didactic territory."

^ Well, Brian is a music god, why hide it?  ;D

Exactly, dude wrote Pet Sounds. 'Til I Die.  Too Much Sugar.

He's a God, though it sounds like the movie was designed to make Mike Love projectile vomit uncontrollably.

I agree. I am a firm believer that if you really want to learn about Brian Wilson, listen to his discography. Same as any good artist.


Interesting, but I'm curious (genuinely) how that would work as a movie.

Regarding the waiting period for a theatrical trailer: I guess they've been waiting to incoporate possible 'hype' after the festival premiere to create one of those 'critics trailers'. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure.


Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGeFqn6hGS0 *





* Brian's movie is bound to have less talking racoons, though. Probably. Who knows.

Not in my book -- Brian's a man, blessed with extraordinary God-given talent.

Which page in your book? I don't think anyone made it past the first chapter!

Encouraging to see positive reviews for the film. Looking forward to seeing it but I am miffed to hear that the other guys barely factor into the story.

Aren't we forgetting the "anonymous former Landy employee" on Prime Time Live?

So how is Mike portrayed in the film? Anybody who's actually seen it care to respond?

Review from Guardian newspaper:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/sep/08/love-and-mercy-review-brian-wilson-biopic

"Bill Pohlad's biopic of the Beach Boys mastermind is immaculate and respectful, but the arc of growth and redemption is too neat"

Hey - that sounds familiar!

Andrew brings up a big point and that's the accuracy of the movie's telling of the story. Its true Melinda comes out as being the heroine in Brian's liberation from Landy. Carl and Audree are not acknowledged, besides a quick phone call she makes to them when she gets Brian's modified will.

--SPOILERS ALERT---

During the Q&A, the director did say that for them it was a great challenge to squeeze in such a complicated story (with so many areas of discussion) in a 2hr film. He even said, half jokingly, that he would leave up the validation of whats true and false to 'BBs scholars' and the whole theater laughed!

Aside from Melinda's involvement, there's a bunch of other 'implied' interpretations that I'm sure are going to raise heated debates in this board. From what I remember, the movie implied that:

• Brian came up with the idea for Good Vibrations after the release of Pet Sounds and got to work on it only after Mike complained PS was not going gold
• Murray sold the song portfolio rights after the failure to release Smile...there's a scene with Brian (Dano) looking at the Smile tapes in the studio when Murray comes in and tells him the news
• Brian went to bed after the failure of Smile and didnt come out of it until Landy in the 80s and the work on his first solo album
• SmileySmile was the idea of the rest of the boys since Brian was not able to finish Smile; the film implies he had nothing to do with the production
• Brian's inspiration to write PS and Smile was from an acid trip (somehow implied as his first one) he took at his home pool

But the above didnt stop me from enjoying the film, specially the production details (which were fantastic) and Dano's superb acting. As a semi-advanced BB fan I know the gray areas in the story, that's why I bug everyone here in the board so much about heroes and villains' questions  >:D

He was portrayed rather ok in my opinion. He was caring for the band and trying to make Brian focus his work on music that would be succesful with their fan base. Problem is that Van Dyke's character was not elaborated and the Smile period was not explored in depth in terms of what Brian's intentions were. So when Mike dismisses Van Dyke, its actually makes sense.

Now, on a different note, the rest of the band was shown as having no relevance whatsoever. Not even Carl.

Well, we all have to understand that this is a film about Brian Wilson, not about the Beach Boys per se; and you only have 100-120 minutes to make a coherent and atractive statement, so the directors always take some "creative licences" to adjust the real facts. After all, the movie is not adressed to hardcore BW/BBs fans.

Agree, but I'm sure everyone here will love the production details and how they used the music. Its really, really good.

The problem is that, even if you view the other BB's as a largely malign influence (I don't of course, it's obviously a much more complicated story), even then they figure prominently into Brian's story.

The Gary Usher episodes from the 80's shows that even as Landy had Brian breaking away and beginning solo stuff, the Beach Boys were a big part of it, in many ways.

Just as Dennis' story, heck even David Marks' story, wove in and out of the Beach Boys even when they didn't want it to. Brian's story in some ways is the same. Even at his lowest points, especially pre-Landy in the 80's, the BB's were a huge part of his life. The story that Jerry Schilling relates in, I believe it's the late 90's A&E Biography, where they have to "fire" Brian in 1982 and Schilling describes Brian's reaction, it's very similar to how Dennis felt in his last years. He still wanted to be a Beach Boy, for whatever reason.

But it's definitely the case that this film is not targeted at hardcore fans. It's kind of weird though, that there are some really interesting, important things that happened that I would think even a non-fan would find interesting (and I'm not even talking about things as scandalous as the Manson connection to the group) that films like this often ignore.

Apart from factual wonkiness, the biggest issue for me may end up being the rather formulaic plotting. The exciting early days, genius peak, then immediately into crazy, laying in bed all day, then a resurgence tempered by Landy, then redemption. It ain't that simple, even when you strip it down to its bare minimum.

It would say it's too bad that the others who took court action to remove Landy aren't noted in the film (based on the reviews so far), not even so much because they deserve "credit", but because the fact that they had to try to step in speaks strongly the seriousness of what was going on with Landy. This is the stuff that they got into in the "Primetime Live" report and things like that.

That's interesting particularly because they would have more room to depict Carl or Dennis in whatever fashion they wanted without fear of lawsuits, as opposed to the living members.

Yeah, a lot of the stuff depicted in that report would have made for rather dramatic (and factually accurate) bits in a film. Particularly that bit with Mike's brother holding the press conference, only for Brian to "crash" it and awkwardly read a prepared statement ("out of the ballpark!").

If he's portrayed negatively, I'm sure Mike Love will have something to say in the public forum.  I am curious to see what he comes up with.

why bring god into it at all?   Brian is a uniquely talented creator of fine music .   

An entire room full of people laughed at us.

Not the first time

 :lol

Well, you all are kind of nuts.

Why not? Why is it taboo for someone to bring up their faith, but perfectly okay to discuss one's lack of faith? Not really directing this at you, but I've noticed a huge double standard pretty much everywhere I go online, and I *just* got into a heated argument on Facebook about this very same thing.

While I understand this premise, I argue that if it has any hopes of being a historically accurate document as to the life and career of Brian Wilson then it should be able to be scrutinized by those fans and still come out smelling like a rose.  If it has no intention on being a historically accurate document of Brian's life and career then in my opinion it's bunk and should be regarded as such.

Wait, are there ANY biopics that are historically accurate documents? Of musicians, especially. Can you think of one? I sure can't.

Which is why as I've indicated by and large I don't like them.  This one actually seems as well done as one could be though in terms of the actors they chose and the story they are going to tell.  My best hopes for it though is it both raises Brian's profile as well as brings attention to the issue of mental illness on a wider scale. 

Well, in this case, then we don't quite agree. I don't tend to like biopics either but for the opposite reason: that they present themselves as historically accurate documents or objective accounts without acknowledging that such a thing is impossible. This is why I'm Not There works so well as a biopic, because it demonstrates the very impossibility of an objective account.

The demands of storytelling within the context of a 2 hour movie are far more jealous than, say, a 6 hour documentary series (like The Beatles Anthology, for instance). So audience expectations need to be realistic.

If you have Carl and Audree get involved in the conservatorship lawsuit, the characters have to be invested into the story earlier in the movie which means added scenes, added dialog, which inflates everything.

That is why you have so many biopics which end up so bloated and come off more as a checklist of events, rather than a compelling narrative. You have to know where and what to trim in order to maintain that narrative. Sometimes that means consolidating characters into one person or trimming a person completely out when they don't really add anything to the central story.

If you want to do big box office, which every producer seeks, you focus on the compelling stuff and shed the boring, and create things (that never happened.)  

It's time for someone to finance my script, A Love Story. It starts with Mike Love coaching Van Dyke on his accordion part in "Kokomo". "Van, it makes a difference if you're sitting this way or that way. OK?" After the session, a smug Van Dyke asks Mike if he ever figured out the "crow cries" lyrics. "I don't know Van, I think you ate the crow!" Mike agrees to pay for Van Dyke's airfare, but gives him an old business card with a disconnected phone # on purpose. "Call me and I'll take care of it."

After, we're treated to a concert. As we got through the setlist with Mike, there are repeated extended flashbacks of times Mike gave Brian hooks to the songs he's about to perform live, but then never received credit. The concert ends with "Kokomo". It's #1. The movie ends with Mike successfully suing Brian for songwriting credits. "I guess this means we can be friends again."

It is a movie folks.  The truth is reserved to those of us who lived it. This movie is to truth what  Al Jolson is to being a soul brother.

In response to AGD's post earlier

Andrew;

Your dates are correct with regard to the filing of the lawsuit initiated by Carl, Audree, Wendy and Carnie. And yes, Melinda was officially cut off, by Landy, from Brian , starting 1989 , until they got together in 1993. What nobody could possibly know (actually maybe three or four people know) is what was going on “off radar”, or behind the scenes at that time; I was “in the mix” during that period and I remember it all too vividly. I have never said a word about it, but it is time I did.

First of all, it is abject fiction that she never saw Brian after being banned by Landy in 1989. Melinda had her own house in Malibu, which was three miles from the dump that Landy had Brian living in; and it was a dump. Brian had to jog six miles daily; the Landy goons were at specific checkpoints all the time; hell, they weren’t running.  He and Melinda saw each other constantly, on the sly. Brian would sneak to a phone booth and call her, and they would meet; albeit briefly; topic was always a progress report on getting him out of there, and of course, encouragement for Brian in such a sick , twisted situation. Remember; he was forbidden by this sicko to contact his family; so the two of them devised a system that worked.

Melinda (then) Ledbetter, met Brian in 1986 ; dated him until Landy found out in 1989 that ,not only was their relationship very serious, but also she was on to him and the bullshit he was doing to Brian; and had been on to him for some time. She was quickly and effectively blocked from all contact with Brian ,or so he thought, as shown above. During that time, both prior to being doused by Landy and after, she tried several times, unsuccessfully, to get the family involved in ousting this bastard. I remember that she got Audree’s cell number off her carphone bill, when Brian tried, unsuccessfully , to try and contact her; I also remember that Audree thought that Mike Love had put her up to calling ! By then it was pretty apparent that eliminating Landy would be a daunting task, as it was difficult to figure out who to trust, and who would weasel her out to Landy. Finally, she contacted the Attorney General, State of California, who told her what she already knew; that she needed to get Brian’s family onboard; without family involvement and consent, nothing could happen, and to that end, gave her Carl’s attorney’s information, Ross Schwartz and Jody Leslie.

Anyway, Melinda then had a few preliminary meetings, I believe, with Ross Schwartz, but soon found that Jody Leslie was “all ears” and was committed to help. It was Jody Leslie who finally convinced the family they needed to step in, after Melinda hand delivered Brian’s will to her, which had been given to Melinda by Andy Dean, one of Brian’s ‘bodyguards”, who developed a conscience after his girlfriend pushed him to help Melinda. This will had been dramatically altered by Landy, whereas he and his girlfriend/wife, Alexandra Morgan, became beneficiaries of 80% of Brian’s estate; Carnie and Wendy were left with 10% each; prior to that, the bulk of the estate went to Carnie and Wendy , with I believe , a smaller portion left to Carl. It was then that the family started the ball rolling with the conservatorship filing; additionally Carl was determined not to let Stan Love take custody of Brian.  This all started in 1989; even though blocked by Landy from seeing Brian, Melinda was relentless is trying to get him the hell out of there. She was asked by Jody Leslie to set up Landy getting served the conservancy papers at the Cadillac dealership; she was so scared of Landy by that time that when he arrived, she was in her office , doors locked , hiding under the desk, afraid of Landy’s erratic behavior. I know that there was a time, just before she was cut off from Brian, that she was secretly taping the mandatory Landy meetings, just in case something happened to her ; it was scary stuff.  I had to go through that bastard twice to see Brian ; I live in New York but Los Angeles was too close for me with Landy; he was that crazy ; I don’t know how she dealt with him , but to her eternal credit she did.
Anyone who loves Brian’s music owes, at minimum, a “thank you” to Melinda Wilson; without her perseverance in exposing Landy and getting the family involved, Brian would be long gone. Think about it; Landy was pumping him full up with all those meds and making him run six miles a day all jacked up ; it was only a matter of time before his heart gave out, or had a stroke.

Her role in getting Brian away from Landy should not and cannot be denigrated or minimized. The vitriol for Melinda Wilson by some on this board is uncalled for, usually over the top and misguided; personally I don’t get it, but from now on when it happens, I, for one, will have her back , armed with the facts.

Finally; I was reading in a few posts wondering what Brian’s reaction to the film was.  Here you go:  “I really liked the movie because the real life was so much worse”.

Thanks, Ray.

Ray tells it as it is. :)

Great thanks for sharing this. This stuff needs to be recorded in a book, documentary film, etc., with everybody saying their piece.

Thank you, Ray.

And BOOM goes the truth.... Thanks Ray!

I love Brian.

‍

Thank you Ray for getting the truth out here. As a fan of Brian and the Boys, I am grateful that Melinda has taken very good care of Brian and helped in guiding and looking out for him over the past 20 plus years. She has always been OK in my book.

Some of Monday's TIFF Q&A:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BytGj_EoM_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BytGj_EoM_c)

YouTube's Flick Chick's review:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF5P80IjoWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF5P80IjoWw)

Yeah, you can't get much more honest than that quote.

Thank you for that, Ray. I generally don't like to speak ill of the dead, but in Landy's case, I hope he brought plenty of sunblock for where he's at now. What a horrible, horrible excuse for a human being. I'm happy that Brian managed to get away from him.

Couldnt agree more about Landy....horrible excuse for a human being.  He was diabolically brilliant; he assesed the situation and immediately recognized what he could get away with ( the second time) .  What a charlatan
 

Thank you, Ray, for the insight.  It is very much appreciated.

I don't post very often, but I want to add my thanks, Ray, for sharing your knowledge with us. The least appealing aspect of the internet, for me at least, is that it brings out the urge in people to proclaim themselves "experts" in matters they have no firsthand experience with. Bless you for setting the story straight.

Youre welcome. I posted it because nobody outside of a few people know what really was the driving factor in getting BW the hell out of there ; I feel she is not treated fairly on so many levels and deserves all the credit in the world in plowing the road out of Landyworld . I read all the articles in the press at the time and I remember thinking " you people have no earthly clue what you are writing about".

I am looking forward to seeing how it is played in the movie.

Thank you for that wonderful insight, Ray. God bless.

word is getting out and about...as of this moment "brian wilson" is the  #2 trending search on yahoo....all because of the movie

Nevermind, I was fooled.

I'm guessing (without having seen the film) that maybe that since they wanted to preemptively prevent any lawsuits, they decided to equally (more or less) not have much involvement of the other bandmates (living or deceased) to as not call attention to the fact that there's suddenly lots of deep scenes with Carl and Dennis, which would only serve to call attention to the potential lack of scenes with other living members, which could make that targeted avoidance stick out even more.

Maybe keeping all members at a relatively equal level of not being featured very prominently just helped to diffuse that situation entirely, and doesn't make it seem like they were tiptoeing around any specific living member(s). Makes sense to me, but what do I know.

Not to mention I'm sure they just wanted to focus on certain aspects of Brian's life which surely was VERY hard to do in a single movie.

We can all agree that is very cool.

A new album from Brian and this apparently brilliant movie. A lot to look forward to.

Thank you, Ray. I remember Melinda talking about this in an interview (maybe it was Larry King?). She said Brian had used her phone to call a family member and that's how she got the family member's number. She subsequently tried to call the family member in an attempt to get help for Brian.

Yes he does.

Ray, do you have an inkling as to why Carnie use to call Melinda "Melinda?"  Was it jealousy? Did Carnie think Melinda had too much control? Did Melinda at any point come between Brian and his daughters and/or prevent him from seeing them?

That interview is on youtube

It's very good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Gf6rBS49o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Gf6rBS49o)

I assume Mikie is referring to the insulting "Me-landy" nickname that has become all to frequent on this board.

edit: It would seem this is being auto changed.

Mikie; I know that Carnie did call her that several years ago : I didnt know why as there never seemed to be any problem that I was aware of; the girls were and are always welcome at their house. My own experience was that Carnie and Melinda get on great. Last year for Brian's birthday they had a nice dinner at a restaurant Brian likes in Beverly Glen...Carnie and Rob were there as well as Danny Hutton and his wife ; Carnie and Melinda were having a great time; I sure didnt see any negativity. Maybe it was a blip on the radar screen back then , or they had a disagreement, but I doubt there was ever anything substantial.  

Thanks for the correction, Cyncie.  I shoulda preafrood my question before posting!  :)

Good to know.  Thanks, Ray.

We like to cast Murry or Capitol records or Mike in the role of villain at various times in Brian's story, but no one can hold a candle to that despicably slimy excuse for a human being.

Somehow I hope this story gets told in Brian's book next year. It deserves more than getting lost in this message board. Thanks Ray.

Is the general consensus out there that Dr. Landy never truly helped anyone period?

That's the second person who was there who's picked me up on my statement concerning Melinda not being either in touch or part of the process, and I'm equally grateful to both for setting me, us and much more importantly, the historical record, straight. When the sources and info are this credible, I have no problem whatsoever with being told to STFU, in private or in public.  ;D

Himself. That's it.

Is Brian close to Carnie and Wendy now?

It's really none of our business, is it?

Of course their relationship is better now than it was when he was abusing drugs and didn't have his mental illness in check.

But are they close? That's subjective and there's no answer that any of us are going to get unless it comes directly from Brian, Carnie, or Wendy's mouth, and  I don't think any of them post here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQBfdbyjuA

Oh, he meant physically?


Then the answer is yes, sometimes but not all the time.

This !   

One of the other ,unfortunately less known historical facts about "Dr." Landy is that one of his patients, Scott Newman , commited suicide either while under Landy's program or just after it. I am fairly certain about that. Scott's father was Paul Newman.  As you stated in your other post, Landy helped himself , that is it. I used to say that Landy saved Brian's life, but I no longer feel that way. At the end of the day , he got Brian to lose weight; twice.

In 1976 I went to see Brian at the bellagio house; when he came to the door he said that he couldnt hang out at all unless it was cleared by his doctor, and gave me Landy's number. So I had to go get interviewed by this guy ; what a bizarre experience.  All Landy wanted to know was what drugs I was doing (none) , how many women I had slept with (not nearly enough ) and why I wanted to record with Brian Wilson (I didnt).  He wanted to know how I got from NY to LA (Pan Am) and finally wanted to know would I be giving Brian any alcohol.  I felt like I was talking to a Warden on speed. So Landy said "you have my blessing, go on back to the house, I will tell Brian you are approved". So as I am walking out of this charlatan's office, I literally walk straight into his next patient, or rather victim, who at that time was literally the most famous actress in the world. I remember thinking to myself " she is seeing this quack ?? Holy s..t"   You cant make this stuff up

Tatum O'Neal right?  LOL...

Ray, thank you so much for all of your contributions to this board. It is, genuinely, a breath of fresh air.

I posted one time on this Board to defend Brian when someone accused him of “seeing me” when I was under-aged, which was untrue.  I have not chosen to post since for two reasons.  One was privacy for me, my family and friends.  The other reason was that I was made aware recently of a few supposed “fans” saying the most demeaning things about Brian, someone they supposedly loved and admired, on this Board.  So, I have to question their true motivation…this Board appeared dangerous. 

Then they attacked who I can only assume were Melinda, Jean Sievers and Brian’s attorney with the idiotic term “handlers.”  But with Ray’s recent courageous post, I felt I should speak up as well, once again.  It’s time, as clearly some of you do truly appreciate Brian and those who love him.  Whoever those other posters are, well “have at it” but I likely won’t respond.

First of all, I have seen some people imply that Brian has “lost it” and that others have been writing his music, here and elsewhere.  I was there during what some, possibly even Brian, would call his worst period aside from the Landy days.  He NEVER lost that magical ability to create heart-stopping beauty at inspired times.  He would go to the piano and I was literally frozen-in-place by what I heard.  The man has a gift I don’t even begin to grasp that takes us to the sublime, and I am thankful for this everyday.  Brian’s band is superb and supportive, but I find Brian’s work unmistakable and the man is working.

I also feel I must address this drug-addled Brian some of you seem to think existed or exists today.  I didn’t know Brian until 1969, but drugs that weren’t prescribed to him only appeared once in my experiences with him over many years.  Granted, he was protective of me, but still, this was clearly NOT a drug-crazed man.  Some of the prescribed drugs he was on were brutal, but those days are long, long over.  He has great doctors now.  Something Melinda deserves massive credit for accomplishing.

Describing Brian as “out of it” couldn’t be further from the truth.  The exact opposite is his blessing and his curse.  The man doesn’t miss anything, no matter how subtle, going on around him.  That’s how he’s touched all of us so deeply, to the point that scientists and doctors in fact reported on NPR and in various films of his music’s actual healing effects.

Imagine that level of sensitivity, the brave vulnerability and the spirit of generosity that it takes for him to be in this world, courageously performing in front of large crowds while also putting his heart and soul on the line again and again with his music, knowing what that can “bring down on him.”  Melinda has said it and I will say it as well, “Brian is the most courageous person I know.”

Brian gives us love, beauty and immense “mercy” every day.  Just being able to work under those conditions doesn’t require “handlers,” it requires a strong line of defense against the jealous, the greedy and the just plain mean-of-spirit, needy people who arise around a bright light such as Brian.  With people like Melinda and Ray he has that now.  (And heaven knows, he needs his great attorney. I will leave it at that!)

I want to offer my deepest love and gratitude to all of them – all brave, good people who deserve respect, and - from what I can gather though I haven’t seen it - they also deserve the extraordinary “Love & Mercy” film by Pohlad, Moverman and that amazing cast. 

People often ask me if I’m shocked that Brian is the “last Wilson standing.”  Not at all, I always knew his strength in spite of the unimaginable.  The man lived a frikkin’ resurrection story through “Smile” for all of us.  You’d think that would have evoked a bit of lasting praise.  He may not “point at you in the audience” for some sort of thrill (I would guess) when he performs.  Sorry, it’s not what the man does.  He’s not about little ego strokes, for himself or anyone else.  In the end they are pretty useless anyway, at least in my experience. 

Maybe just a genuine thanks to Brian for sticking with us all these years would be appropriate at this point - and for his amazing willingness to continue to work, bringing us profound joy.  Brian and Melinda know that I love and respect them.  That feels really good - the ultimate fulfillment for me after all these years.  It’s up to you if you’d like to join me or not.

Thank you for that...very well said!

-Billy

That was a fantastic post, thanks for that

Hot damn! This is some thread

Thank you very much for post mrs. Keil. Much appreciated giving your opinion here !

Thanks Debbie for sharing this information.

Great post Debbie, hope you stay and shed light on your friendship with BW.

Debbie, the fact that Brian doesn't do the eternally embarrassing 'pointing at someone you're pretending to recognize in the audience' routine is just another in the long list of reasons why I love the man. Thanks for a lovely, uplifting post.

Wonderful posts from Debbie and Ray! My compliments.

Well, I re-read the thing I wrote and saw how preachy I got at the end, so thanks for being forgiving about that.  I also hope Ray forgives me for calling him "courageous."  He HATES that kind of stuff!  I had just grown so tired of some of the nastiness, and I see that most of you are appreciative of Brian and his work.  Also, I caught some of the stuff where people were telling Brian how he should be doing this record he's about to release. Seriously?  While it's totally not Brian's style, I did have fantasies about him saying, "HEY, you talkin' to ME!?"   One other thing I WILL say about my insights into Brian was that he never needed my help or opinion in making a record!  Geez...

Great to have you on board! I have been tired of the nastiness, the petty criticisms, the suggestions that Brian is or isn't this or that, and it reached the boiling point for me as a fan in the past year...and my complaint is and always has been that much of those issues come from something other than the truth, or the facts of the matter in general.

So it is great to have those who know the truth, who have in those cases been there and can confirm the facts, join in the discussion.

What I raised in another thread or maybe even multiple threads is my wondering what is the motivation behind continuously spreading things that aren't true and using terms and nicknames to ridicule or dismiss. I'll call it out too: The use of the term "handlers" as a derisive term is ridiculous at this point in light of what has been reported by those who actually know.

A bizarre coincidence that it was Ross Schwartz who was working to get Landy detached from Brian; it was less than a decade earlier (I think) that Ross's dad Sherwood Schwartz (Gilligan's Island/Brady Bunch producer/creator) was the one who helped get Maureen McCormick (Marcia Brady) INTO the care of Dr. Landy (that didn't last long, as Maureen McCormick quickly figured out what a creep Landy was, and stopped seeing him).

Seems like the Schwartzes and the Wilsons had this in common: actively getting a relative (or close friend) into Landy's care, and then banding together to help get Landy out of the picture.

Looks like Lionsgate will be releasing L&M here in the U.S. after all. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/toronto-lionsgate-nabs-beach-boys-731840?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews&utm_campaign=THR+Breaking+News_now_2014-09-10+10%3A34%3A14_tsiegel

And yes, thank you for the incredibly insightful posts, Ray Lawlor & Debbie Kiel-Leavitt. Such a riveting life Brian's led. Good to see he's had such great friends along the way.

Fascinating contributions by historical figures, for which, thanks. The Professor's bias is clear: I resist any narratives that, in the current climate, might continue to prevent a BB reunion and next album.  I evaluate the film according to how it will further alienate the boys from each other.  This bias aside, I know a movie has to simplify  and merge historical forces. That Melinda had such a role in helping BW, as Ray recounts, is stunning and something to be thankful for.  My fear was that the movie was focusing on her role in order to tell the world, once and for all, as it were, that the other BB are useless, clueless drones, oblivious to the sun they orbit. The real story, each family emotion and moment of stress, fear, and love cannot be depicted nor chronicled in any art form.  Once lived, it is it only a whisper in Time, I agreee.

I will see the movie and hope it is artistically satisfying and inspires fear and pity in the Aristotelian sense, however heroic, rather than tragic, it's arc. Real redemption, in 2014, would be the old men known as the Beach Boys singing together. Nothing less than that would ease my particular sorrow at the current divisions.

The Handlers (carried over from Landy times) term is used because Brian makes no bones about putting his people out front when making business decisions. Whereas, the Beach Boys seemed to keep all that in the background. At any point in there career, either Dennis, Carl or Mike took the lead in interviews and the such regarding decisions made by the band with their management.

Even during C50 Mike seemed to make it pretty clear that Brian was not willing to talk business without his management stepping in. Really, it is all perception from the eyes around Brian that we come away thinking that he always has to have someone running interference for him. I assume that is true, but mostly just from the business side.

I'd just like to chime in and suggest there are and were issues more important on a much deeper level than a Beach Boys reunion or than the Beach Boys in general. They are and were a band that does not supercede the lives of the individuals who were in that band. The fact that the surviving members not only survived (in some cases against all odds) but continue to be active in performing and recording music in 2014 is something to be celebrated and something as fans to be grateful for. Would a reunion be nice? Sure. If it doesn't happen, look at what we as fans have to celebrate and enjoy.

I couldn't agree more.

Importance, so to speak, is relative, depending upon what aesthetic, romantic, or mythic paradigm you invoke. What do we demand of art and of artists? Survival or triumph? Both? And how are each measured? There is no absolute answer here. I respect these posts that are grateful for what we have, but I always recognize a higher register of epic fulfillment, the kind that will be writ indelibly into history.

6 degrees of seperation

Brian makes music.  Does he also have to be his own attorney to make some of you happy?  He's not some little nobody.  What we love that Brian produces involves financial and legal issues.  I'm glad he leaves these thing to professionals in those arenas. Let's leave this to the grown-ups, okay?

Regarding Ray Lawlor's welcome post a few pages back about Melinda, just have to say that when I met her briefly backstage at Brian's 2005 Montreal concert (at the time of my avatar at left), I could tell she was a really, really kind woman with great love for Brian.

Now, I am not saying this to be smarta**, but why are you taking offense at something I stated that the other Beach Boys did/do that Brian does not? Are/Were they not composers/musicians/band members too? I was just stating the difference of what we are/were used to with the band versus the way Brian does things. I'm making no judgments here, just stating the differences.

You had me up until this point. Not sure why the condescension is needed to make your point.

You guys seriously wanna pick a fight? Yeesh.

My point was that now you are into legal and financial issues and there is no way I'm going there.  They don't belong here and I'm done posting.

Ugh, you guys

Let's be friends...let's be friends...lets be friiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddssssssssssssssss

Okay, so it doesn't have the same ring in print that it does when the Boys are singing it, but let's play along!

I hope you aren't referring to my post. I don't feel like I was picking a fight. I just find the phrase "Let's leave this to the grown-ups, okay?" a bit patronizing. It's the Libra in me I guess. I certainly agree with (and appreciate) everything else Debbie Keil-Leavitt posted.  :)

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

She seemed to come in with the mindset of making a few posts and leaving anyway. 

I disagree. Anything that raises the public profile of the Beach Boys should only help to increase the chances for further projects with BW by way of offering larger deals, guarantees, and potential paydays.

Has George Benson ever commented on Landy?

Before this spins too far off course, I want to state something that is a fact and can be proven easily. All entertainers have managers, agents, lawyers, publicists, and booking agents not to mention other professionals working on their behalf.

This includes Brian, Mike, Al, John Stamos, and whoever else in the Beach Boys realm we want to include.

The actual artist has final say, but before they agree to play a show, before they book a recording session, before they give an interview with the local newspaper or radio station, these people working for them do what they are paid to do. This includes going over the details, the legalities, the decisions, etc...

Because ultimately there are legal and contractual issues that go beyond someone saying "Hey, let's play a show on the 15th!". And before that actually happens, there are procedures that have to be followed in order to make things happen.

Let's not assume one member or another has a different structure within or surrounding anything related to them or the Beach Boys in a business or professional sense without having a management and legal "team" working on their behalf. Because it's pretty much standard for all entertainers to have teams of people that are paid to handle all of the details that need to be handled before an event is scheduled or planned.

That's pretty much a fact industry-wide whenever money changes hands.

"Have my people call your people", standard practice.

Sorry, I just tried to explain why some people see it that way. I never agreed with it, still don't, but I can see why some people think that way. As we see here all the time, not everyone looks at things the same way. We all see the same things through different eyes. My post wasn't meant to offend anyone, so my apologies to you, Ms. Keil-Leavitt, as apparently you were.

Another great headline for the movie...

The Washington Post

At film festival, Bill Murray makes a splash, but Brian Wilson biopic steals the show


http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/at-film-festival-bill-murray-makes-a-splash-but-brian-wilson-biopic-steals-the-show/2014/09/10/f1e4a52e-3878-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

George Benson mentions him in his autobiography and has commented in other sources as well. A man named Harry Tepper was in partnership with Landy when Landy was 19 and Benson was 10, and the Tepper/Landy team found Benson in Pittsburgh and wanted to take George to New York to cut a record. At that time Benson only had a cheap acoustic guitar and came from a family of limited means, so getting to see and play "real" instruments was a major thing for a ten year old kid in Pittsburgh, not to mention getting to record.

He said Landy was a womanizer, a strong personality, a huckster who could sell anything.

Among Landy's requests for taking on Benson's career at that age was having the family sign Power Of Attorney forms that gave Landy control over all of George's money earned and correspondence, including his mail. In one source Benson said his family didn't trust Landy.

In another source, it said Benson (or his family, whatever the case) eventually fired Landy for being too controlling.

Beyond that, I'd check George's autobiography and other sources for more direct quotes. But I think that summary covers it, corrections welcome.

Wow - that's huge praise!

'Among the many smart, sophisticated, deeply moving films that have become TIFF reliables, “Love & Mercy” — which just sold to Lionsgate on Wednesday — was an unexpected, undisputed triumph.'

First 'not so great' review I've read so far:

"This is by no means a classic, and I still can’t shake the familiar feeling that you’re better off listening to a run of Beach Boys records and reading up on the history than sitting through 2 hours of biopic slush, but Love & Mercy isn’t a bad film."

Complete in: http://blog.film4.com/tiff-2014-love-mercy/

Hopefully I think it's just a blog, not a top critic.

Still quite a good review considering.

Indeed, and at worst he wants you to go listen to the Beach Boys. We're good either way. ;)

 ;D I know, I know, I just wanted to show that even the "worst" review so far isn't a bad one.

Ray and Debbie, thank you for 2 of the best posts I've ever read on this board.  ;D. Please keep sharing your insights with us.  And thanks again to Brian for being a survivor and doing what he's always done, make great music and inspire those around him.

I also Melinda at a Brian show in 2002 in Glasgow.  She was sitting behind me and kindly allowed me to jump in beside her and have my picture taken with her!  To me, she has always had Brian's best interests at heart and I for one am glad Brian met her.

Thanks for the reply, greatly appreciated!!

Exactly.

Someone who actually knows Brian and was a part of their history comes here and shares her perspective gets run off because they don't like what she has to say.

Stay classy, guys!

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa148/Malkmusian/fatbrian.png)
Can somebody tell me why there's a guy on TV pretending to be the pretend me? First, there's padlocks on the fridge. Now this! How could they?

Who didn't like what she had to say? Did I miss something?

From my vantage point, you didn't say anything that crossed the line.  Some of the posters here are far too sensitive.  Lets keep this the land of free discussion, debate and opinion.

+1

I think the same would go for anyone one might admire that is a famous artist of some sort.  They have given themselves to us via their art.  We, the fans, should not expect a pound of flesh as well.  Just being able to refer back to the art (in this case music) and revisit it from time to time, like an old friend, is awesome enough.

Agreed, JManley. Also helps to remember that these are real life human beings we are discussing...they may be musical legends, but people all the same.

All I did was give an explanation that apparently Ms Keil-Leavitt did not want to read. People would not use the term if they understood the situation exactly as she does. As to how events are announced publicly, Brian almost solely depends on his management to do everything, whereas other artists including the Beach Boys have band members announce and talk about said events. This was the only point that I was trying to get across. I thought this was a topic that could be discussed. I guess I was wrong.

Must be some kind of a board record. Registers one day, 4 posts then out-a-here!

Nothing to take offence of IMO but different strokes I guess. I do hope she and Ray stick around though.

"Let's leave it to the grown ups" was a nicer way of saying "what the f*** is it any of your business?"

While you didn't say anything that was pungently offensive, it is extremely poor form to discuss the intricacies of Brian's managerial or financial practices right after those who just apprehensively unloaded a wealth of credible, record-straightening information just finished stating there need not be concerns in this public forum. The least you could do is express apologies to her.

I talked to her earlier for a few hours (not all about the board...that'd be daft lol), and yes, that is what she took offense to. However, she didn't likewise didn't intend to come across the way she did to. She's not really a message board person to begin with.

I apologized to her. What the f*** more do you want me do, huh? Again, I didn't realize we were being preached to. I thought I could add to the discussion. She didn't like the term handler, I tried to explain why some people use the term. Again, I didn't realize that it was a one way CONVERSATION.

Appak- He did apologize to her, and as she hasn't been online since, i passed them on to her. Likewise, she wanted me to do the same .

It was a misunderstanding...it's done. It happened, it's over.

If you already apologized then I must have missed it, so it was an error on my part, and now I'm the one apologizing. I think it would have been best to drop the subject altogether and let the thread move onto more interesting stories than to enlighten/recap us on business business and balk when a guest is justifiably peeved.

edit: just saw the above post; rest assured I have no more thoughts on the matter

Now, that is the greatest back-handed apology that I ever received. You really shouldn't have bothered. ;)

Appak just noticed it and edited his post thusly.

With that...what's done is done and can't be undone. So...let's move on from here, and not discuss the matter further.


So...

Glad to hear that Lionsgate picked up the movie for the US too!

I'll go one further, as much of the discussion over the last few pages of this thread qualifies to be put under the header "There goes (insert appropriate time block) of my life I'll never get back!"

Seriously a lecture on etiquette?  Not to belabor the point but "there goes _____ of my life I'll never get back!"  The bottom line for me is we are all adults here and know what is appropriate means of communication versus what isn't.  From my standpoint only people who are trying to agitate or disrupt the forum ignore these guidelines and since that obviously didn't go on here, I don't really see what the issue is.

Edit: Apologies as I did not read the above request to change the subject.  I am obviously in complete agreement that we should move along...

Landy also "treated" Gig Young, who ended up killing his wife and then himself. What a horrible legacy of mistreatment and exploitation Landy has.

Ray, I also wish to thank you for your enlightening posts about Brian and Melinda.

Without in any way defending Landy's methods, Gig Young I believe had some difficulties in relationships before Landy came into his life.  Around a decade ago, I watched a biography on Elizabeth Montgomery and it was mentioned that Liz's marriage to Gig Young ended in divorce allegedly due to Young's battles and issues with alcohol. 

That is great news. Lionsgate has been a major player over the past few years and can really have an impact with making this a major theater release.

I think so too.

Agree with this 100%.

I read lionsgate has acquired the American and Canadian rights to the the film for 3 million.

That's a big investment. Hopefully they get behind the film and get it out there for people to see.

I'm most excited about what this film could do for a new found appreciation of Brian's/BB's work.  Perhaps much the same way that "Walk the Line" and "Ray" did for their respective subjects.

I'm very glad this film did so well at the festival and am looking forward to seeing it in the theaters!

 Yeah...she only wanted to set the record straight regarding Brian ...had no intention of sticking around,  and it had nothing to do with being offended or any posts that were made. No harm,  no foul.

Yes, the Liongate story has been confirmed.  Awesome news!!!

Good to know.

I am almost as eager to hear the soundtrack as I am to hear Brian's new album for some reason.

Equally for me....he could put out an album of him reading the phone book and I'd still want it, but the fact that we got an album coming out of music that he is over the moon for, and also have a film about him that's getting rave reviews, AND an autobiography...well, it's like 1995 again for me.

so my question is this: did they use the original Beach Boys masters or did Brian Re-record the songs for the movie? or a mixture of both?

This was covered a few pages ago, check it out.  ;)

ok... cool..

Josh, I hope my reply didn't come off as facetious or sarcastic or anything because it wasn't meant that way, but if you check out specifically pages 7-8 of this thread you'll get some of the info and a photo.  :)

I don't *think* Brian himself re-recorded anything for the film, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand that Brian isn't a vegetable. I get it. But I feel we're bending too much to the other side of the coin. He still is mentally ill.

Just depression or other things?

And your point is...what, exactly? I found that insulting and not for the reasons some might think. If you know someone personally who is fighting an alcohol addiction, do you go around reminding people he or she is an alcoholic?

If you want to stir the sh*t, it isn't going to happen here on the basis of posts worded like that. Just sayin'.

This film seems to be generating such positive buzz that I can't help but wonder if Lion's Gate might try to get this into some theaters by year's end to qualify for awards consideration. I think the fact that a distribution deal came so quickly is a very good sign that could happen. I have my fingers crossed anyway.

I just wanted to ask her if Brian ever, finally got his chicken.

Just woken up, and caught up, and I have this to say: what is wrong with some of us ? We get people here who were involved, really do know what happened (as opposed to the likes of me spinning whole cloth out of woefully incomplete thread) and take the time and trouble to post... and they get grief. Frankly I'm surprised no-one's taken a pop at Ray, Matt or Scotty T yet. Debra has a unique insight into Brian's life, but I for one will be astonished if she ever posts here again, and that's a great loss. I shudder to think what might transpire if Alan, Mike or Brian decided to drop by. Actually, I think I do know exactly what the response would be - "yeah, right, of course you are, get the **** outta here".

I don't know about any other boards devoted to bands, but here we have some pivotal people posting, and now and then we take it for granted and don't afford them their due respect. Madness.

You know, we're 10 years post BWPS. Amazing really, but time flies (especially in media cycle years). The 2012 tour woke up a lot of people to the band's legacy, and BWPS woke up a whole new demographic on Brian's studio artistry (to take nothing away from the band themselves). Hopefully this movie will engage, reengage, and remind everyone of the inspirational saga of the BW career arc.

Ray, the behind-the-scenes info is illuminating and fascinating. Thank you for that. Just when you think you've heard the story, now you know...the rest of the story.

The real interesting chapter will the new, improved auto biography. Beyond the music, there's so much internal dynamics that we can only ponder and conjecture. Brian has never fully dropped the veil and really truly opened up - circa BWPS, and subsequently with the Smile box, I always found Brian's recollections wanting (whether by design or not). Compare that with Pete Townsend's deeply fascinating and rambling explanations (and contradictions) on the stillborn Lifehouse. I always loved those Rolling Stone stream of consciousness interviews of his. Yet with Brian, there's always a little held back. This of course adds to the mystique, the riddle. Anything and everything that reveals the inner Brian Wilson is fascinating to me.

Maybe I would so that they wouldn't give booze to my personal friend.

I feel a certain hostility to simply mentioning that Brian isn't a 100% independent adult. He isn't and hasn't been for almost five decades.

How is that stirring the sh*t when we've been reading about it with microscopical detail for some decades, a bit during the Marylin era, a whole lot during Landy and a whole lot more in the last 20 years? You can only save someone who needs help.

Well, before you accuse me of 'hating' Brian, just ignore this post and I'll drop it altogether. Truce?

Has this been posted? Totally glowing review here:
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/review-john-cusack-and-paul-dano-give-voice-to-brian-wilsons-broken-soul-in-love-mercy?hf_exp=social_title_off&title=Review%3A%20John%20Cusack%20and%20Paul%20Dano%20give%20voice%20to%20Brian%20Wilson%27s%20broken%20soul%20in%20%27Love%20%26%20Mercy%27 (http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/review-john-cusack-and-paul-dano-give-voice-to-brian-wilsons-broken-soul-in-love-mercy?hf_exp=social_title_off&title=Review%3A%20John%20Cusack%20and%20Paul%20Dano%20give%20voice%20to%20Brian%20Wilson%27s%20broken%20soul%20in%20%27Love%20%26%20Mercy%27)

Yeah, I couldn't believe that sh*t either. Just left me shaking my head.

In agreement. This place can be like a great bar serving the finest ales - attracts the great and the good, poets and thinkers, obsessives and historians, players and (in the past) even team members, and those of us who come to sip at the nectar. And after a match, it attracts a lot of fans and a little tipsy behaviour. We're all here for the same thing, just with different attitudes and goals. I hope we can all drink here without spoiling it for the players occasionally.

Well said.

No truce. Don't patronize me or anyone here like that.

This is the deal: You saw in the past 24 hours several people come to this board, to this specific discussion, on their own initiative, to post about someone who they know as a friend. Not as a rock legend, not as a reclusive musical genius, not as a star, but as a friend.

It provided some of the best conversation and information I have ever seen on this board. Direct, no bullshit information from people who actually know the man personally.

That is what this board can and could be known for.

Tonight, I see a post (from you) reminding people here - including those who have known the man personally for decades - that Brian Wilson is still mentally ill. Driving that point into the ground and reminding people here of it on a regular basis must be akin to "seeing the other side of the coin", as the flip side of the coin must be describing Brian living his everyday life as he does and chooses to do, with the people he loves and chooses to be with.

I find it insulting, I found it insulting to read a reminder like that in the context of this thread which is discussing a movie about Brian's life and the issues he's dealt with, and I'm calling it out as something I don't see as necessary nor welcome in this context.

It's not about hating or loving anyone, it's about seeing things in context and choosing what may or may not be appropriate in light of the situation.

This board can be known for the posts and conversations on the previous 4-5 pages or so, or it can be known as a place where unnecessary reminders that "Brian is still mentally ill" in that context are posted in order to show both sides of some imaginary coin, or the standard of imagined fairness that coin represents in some fantastic way I must not get.

First, I don't see the point to reminding anyone here of things everyone knows and has known up to and including the man who just had the film made about him in the way it was done above, and second, I don't want the board to be known for that kind of thing.

If I'm alone in that opinion, I'm happy to stand alone in that opinion. That's my take.

Not alone. The man has brought so much joy to my life, and i find it a bit disrespectful. Nobody is discounting the fact that he has his struggles, but he's working through it. It is a daily struggle,  and i respect him as much for that as i do for his outstanding body of work.

I concur. I cant find anything more to say at this point.

It's not like the fact that Brian's movie got good to great reviews gave me this urge to crap on its thread. I think every post in this forum is worthy, no matter if you're a dumbass who doesn't know how many singles were released from the Surf's Up LP or if you're an insider. I like Ray's posts, but they're often greeted with (paraphrasing) "Finally someone who knows what hes talking about! You read it folks, this crap about Brian having handlers is total bullshit!". You know, if someone wants to believe that Brian's a manipulated vegetable, so be it. This person doesn't have to be shushed and convinced to cut the crap. Now Debbie Keil enters and leaves in a huff, just like she intended to, and there's this crisis about how we should have nurtured her affiliation. I don't know.

I take offense at being accused of repeatedly mentioning Brian's mental illness. That's not the case at all, but it doesn't matter. I apologize for my first post and will only post in this thread again after I watch the movie, no matter what the replies are. Estou gordo como uma vaca, como eu fui ficar assim?

I'm not going to pretend to know what the last thing translates to in English, so I'll leave it alone.

She didn't intend to leave in a huff; she wanted to set the record straight on a few things, and there was a misunderstanding afterwards that has since been straightened out.

As for the rest, well, it came across as here we are celebrating Brian, and you basically are accusing us of forgetting that he has struggled with mental illness. As I said earlier, nobody here is discounting that or taking that lightly. Hell, that's what the movie is about to begin with! Out of the blue, you post


when nobody was denying that in the first place!  I can't speak for others, but as for me, that's what I myself took offense to. Why even bring that up? We know he has had problems. Nobody here was saying 'oh, he's 100% fine and every day is a breeze'.

And of course people like Ray and Debbie are going to try to clear things up..,how would you feel if there was misinformation about a close friend of yours?

Melinda, when she was posting on the Blueboard also recounted this story. She said the only way she could get the family involved was when they realized the will had been changed. Can anyone else remember this? Did you see that particular post Amy?

Quick edit: Thanks to Ray and Debbie for their efforts in getting the truth out there. I loved reading every word...

Now that Lions Gate is going to be the distributor, does anyone know how long it usually takes to set a release date?

Yes this also left me scratching my head. I don't get what was so offensive about the "leave it to the grown ups" comment anyway, nor the desperate rush to call her out on it.

Your opinion is not welcomed here. Pay attention! Certain posters will tell you what you should think and say. If you want to think and say something that is critical of Brian Wilson...don't. It's not welcomed here, unless you can find an honored guest to come on to back you up. Good luck with that. The studio janitors might have some interesting things to say, though.

I'm not sure where I read/saw it, but yes, Melinda has explained (probably more than once) her involvement and how she helped get the family involved. I believe you're right-- she did point out that the will was kind of the final straw.

Don't know but hear this: 'Once' director John Carney's current movie 'Begin Again' was picked up for distribution immidiatedly after its screening at last year's festival. (back then it was called 'Could a Song save your Life?')

As I remember it, it took about half a year before a release date was set. (sometime in June, I think it was) And not that long after stating a release date, trailers began to circulate.

So perhaps we're all the wiser around January / February?

Really, REALLY looking forward to this movie!!!

This x 1000.

Ok, now yes, first bad review:

grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/toronto-film-festival-2014-john-cusack-jon-stewart-chris-rock/

It's the first "rotten" review:

www.rottentomatoes.com/m/love_and_mercy/

 :(

Reading reviews, I'm seeing that in Dano's scenes Pet Sounds is the main focus.

Does anyone know how much Smile is shown in the film?

Some people are making a bigger deal than it was with Debbie Keil!! Her intention from the beginning was to post and run! NOBODY RAN HER OFF!

Again. After reviewing 3-4 times how Dr. Beachboy, Pixeltwin, and others responded to her posts soon afterwards, I really don't see anything wrong or out of the ordinary. And evidently neither did Debbie. Do we have to show respect? Of course! Walk on thin ice, concerned with what we post may be misconstrued or worded slightly off-kilter? Maybe. But my God, understand going in that if you're ultra sensitive with a very thin skin and can't welcome questions, comments or debate (if necessary)  - forget it! Don't bother! Somebody is going to get their feelings hurt. It's a MESSAGE BOARD, not a wamby pamby kiss-butt nicey-nice forum for little girls. I'm sure Ray understands that and he knows we have his back. And like someone said - we're adults here. We know how to act. And we do! We have 3 mods here to remind us of that and we also police our own, ya know? So relax and have fun!

I have to say I'm more than a little impressed that this film sounds like a winner. Any review in and of itself means nothing to me.....however, taking in all of the information that has come out since the debut I don't see how I am not going to at least like the film. After those two television debacles......what a great thing this might be.

Bravo and thanks.

That is ridiculous.

If I'm a "certain poster", I'll address this.

First, what is the end game exactly? What is the desired result from a reply like this? Spell it out, we'll talk it out. As it appears now, it seems I and others are being accused of not welcoming opinions, and it's getting away from the discussion...distraction? Let's tackle the "something that is critical of Brian Wilson" remark.

Reminding people reading a thread based on a film *about Brian Wilson's battle with mental health issues* that Brian "still is mentally ill" is not only redundant, but it was unnecessary and in the context of this discussion it struck me as insensitive bordering on insulting, at least I took it as insulting in this context. So I called it out.

Again, what is the motivation for doing that? Help me understand it, let me know the motivation or the desired end result in reminding everyone who is a Beach Boys fan about this.

Opinions are fine, right? I'll take the fact over opinion any time and every time, especially in cases where the facts of the story are set in stone and describe exactly what may or may not have happened.

No one is here to shut out opinions. However, if I'm eating a ham and swiss on rye and you come up to me and tell me you think I'm eating a tuna salad wrap, I'll push back on that "opinion", since it is total nonsense. Some things just are what they are.

And beyond that, I'd ask why would this guy try to tell me I'm eating a tuna salad wrap when he sees and I know that I'm eating a ham and swiss on rye?

What is the motivation, what is the desired result. Simple.

The reason why sunny-down-snuff replaces over-the-cornfield was to surprise fans and make the biopic less predictable, and it's not that historically inaccurate in the first place, since it's reported that the crow incident was only one of numerous lyric-related altercations between Love and Parks during Smile.

I would have preferred that they kept consistent and made the line "Geronimo leaps and bounds for glory over the dust bowl."

Plus making the BBs stare at a doll. ;)

Ahh yes, mustn't forget the "official" version of the Smile sessions as acted out in the "official" TV movie bio. THAT'S the way it all went down. Can't challenge that, it's an opinion after all and is more than welcome to replace fact any day.

That's the ticket.
 ;D

Exactly. No better example of how Brian humiliated the other guys in the studio. Just imagine having to stare at that doll and sing...it bums me out.

Another review:
http://www.biography.com/news/love-and-mercy-brian-wilson-review

Thank you Mikey.

A passage from that review that stood out: Giamatti plays him as a crazed martinet with a Beatles haircut. While Giamatti insists that he sought to avoid portraying Landy as a cardboard villain, it’s difficult to view this hipster analyst as much more than a sinister, if intermittently comic, impediment to Brian’s eventual triumph over adversity.

The use of the word "comic" is something to consider. Obviously what actually happened and even worse what could have happened to Brian had actions not been taken as they were is far from a comedic situation. I'm curious to see how the portrayal plays out on screen, because again the entirety of the situation seems so far removed from any notion of comedy that it's tough to see how this reviewer got comedy out of it unless it was done deliberately to lessen the blow of the reality for audiences. Maybe it's that fine line between absurdity and comedy which is being hinted at, where some things in retrospect seem so ridiculous, so absurd, that they become laughable in that absurdity. But is that necessarily "comic"? I'm curious to see.

Plus the random sound effects BW made while VDP was mean to Mike Love. ;)

In my case, I was not giving an opinion, I was giving an example. Second, you bring up redundancy. This place is nothing but redundancy. We regurgitate every Beach Boy nuance 20 fold and more. This place is the epitome of redundancy. You know, I apologized, I emailed Billy privately, he spoke with Debbie, we both are good about how things worked out. Can we just leave it? I wouldn't even mind if you take down my posts. Actually, I wish you would. Seriously, this needs to end and editing this thread may be the answer. Thanks!

It's really interesting how the real life Landy rationalized his actions in a sort of, "Well, blame Brian, not me. He's not keeping me away after all, and if he did, you can bet he wouldn't make it without me." Whereas in current historical accounts, most simplify his motives never beyond "he was a crazy quack". If he's villanous for the sake of being villanous, which nobody is in real life, it does hurt a character in a story. And it seems that may be the case in this film.

Good point but the overarching argument that reviewer seems to make is that Giamatti plays Landy "as a cardboard villain" and cardboard villains do have a tendency having a slightly comic edge to them - think, for example, the Joker in Batman as the ultimate of this. Sure there is no question that what the Joker is doing is positively heinous yet at the same time, the character is so over-the-top villainous that there is a, perhaps, comic edge. Obviously, the Joker is a special example since he comes right out of comic books, but I do think the point does generalize somewhat.

It's "Mikie". Geez, how long have you been on this board? EVERYBODY knows that! What's the matter with you, Dr. Beachboy? And please quit posting as a doctor. You sound more like a quack to me! 56 years old and I'd think you'd know how to spell by now!

I was absolutely *not* referring to you or anything you wrote, nor was I addressing or even thinking about anything you wrote when I wrote my post quoted above.

I never claimed to be a doctor, Mikie. ;) Thems just my initials, is all. I'm telling you, this thread has me so shook up that I can't even type straight. Sorry for the misspell, Mikie!

Doc, let it roll off your back. GF and Billy and all of us are with ya, man. VERY small apples. Actually, NO apples. You're starting to fall into that "ultra sensitive" category and we have enough of that already! Sail on.

maybe a "Hero's and Villain" type theme with Giamatti? that's the first thing that popped into my head with the mustache and a cardboard villain concept.. just a thought.. heck maybe there are more of these cool hidden song references in the movie...lol

Thanks for the pep talk. I'm toughening up again as I write this. :)

 ;D

I have been reading this thread, but rarely post to the board anymore because I would describe the general vibe to be somewhat hostile. Perhaps this is due to an admittedly small group of very active users displaying a general disrespectful tone. I've seen a lot of very interesting new posters 'chased away' ... I think some people get used to the 'locker room' style of conversing ... 'outsiders' can see it very plainly, but the posters who are 'in it' cannot recognize it, or don't see it as a problem. A little bit of groupthink or something maybe.

That said, I do feel that most people here are respectful and pleasant. It just seems that the ones who are not are the loudest and post the most often.

I think the board would be better served to treat others here the way they would treat them in person.

Considering that is not likely to happen, I think a heavily moderated approach would actually work well, with a non-moderated adjacent board. The brash posters would probably get moved (or banned or whatever) quickly, and/or lose interest in posting so often or change their tone.

Aside from that, most of the threads going on these days are just plain boring in my opinion (not this one)! I suspect the reasons for the lack of real content are related to the hostile environment.

Just my 2 cents.

 :beer

I'm at the bar…

Donny. At the risk of derailing this thread, but it's about the third time you've addressed this subject recently.

Please read my opinions on this subject above, especially concerning sensitive readers/posters, then please let me know what you think, OK?

My opinion: The board is just fine. The mods are just fine. Adjustments have already been made and it's for the better of everyone here. The world is not a nice place in some areas, but this board serves as somewhat of an escape - a sanctuary as it were. I see this board as a positive environment. I agree with your statement that most threads these days are somewhat boring for lack of real content. It's cyclic. The nature of the board. Soon there will be new stuff and opinions (positive and negative) will fly once more. If you don't like what a specific poster has to say, either skip over it or jump in and counter it with YOUR opinion, instead of hanging back for days/weeks and then whining and complaining about it on the board. Lively discussions are always welcome as far as I'm concerned, otherwise this, like you said, would be a pretty boring place.

In the interest to distract people from the negativity, I present the following

(http://x4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3772496+_22dcfe62684972c22dafce2376139efe.gif)
(http://x4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3772496+_574eb3492d1eccf337c32b474f502b2d.gif)
(http://x4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3772496+_fa75f6885c08c51b6ca1437ea0f9d919.gif)
(http://x4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3772496+_719ed6786a3b0eb4f1627e770e615639.gif)
(http://x2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/I+have+a+request+if+it+s+alright.+Make+_a190058747592e041524d1d533601d28.gif)

Now what were we talking about again?

I love "Card Table Flipping Guy".

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Izeif0lNg9E/UQeyjVT4HoI/AAAAAAAAIUg/COJB8JvQftg/s1600/table-flip.gif)

:lol

Sure man -- I'm with you to some degree. Yes, I've brought it up before ... probably the last posts I've made over the past few months. Because I think it's important.

Where we disagree is the idea that the board is in good shape -- I don't think it is. I don't really consider myself a 'sensitive poster' ... I can pretty much hang with the weird locker room $hit, though ultimately I don't really like that kind of atmosphere.

Every time I've brought it up is when I see something going on as an observer, not as a participant. I've seen it happen so many times now, that you're right -- it's probably pointless to bring it up again. It's not like I'm on some crusade to clean up the board. It's basically that I don't post unless I feel I have something of value to add. And in threads like these, I see something begin that could lead to wonderful content and information, only for it to be derailed into weirdness.

So maybe Debbie Keil just came to say a few words and leave. But I can't help but wonder if her experiences here (past or present) were different, she may have hung out a little longer.

I asked her directly, and she wasn't going to be posting any more apart from that for entirely different reasons. Has nothing to do with any posts here...promise you guys this.

Happy days then..

Movies good, it's coming out soon

All is right in the world of BB's

I'm with ya, Donny.  You know, The Bay Area contingent should be on the same wavelength, and I think we are in agreement for the most part.

Only a handful (or less) of you guys here have the extensive knowledge of recording equipment (especially analog) and the recording process, and how Brian and Chuck Britz and Larry Levine tracked and mixed records. Maybe you can start a new thread or rejuvenate an old one on the subject. I, for one, enjoy the hell out of reading that stuff. Have somewhat limited knowledge, but would like to know more! Use to enjoy Josh's contributions on the subject, but unfortunately it looks like he bailed. I don't think you'd see much arguing going on on a thread like that! c :)

Would that some other posters would adopt such a credo...


I think she may well have. But now, we'll never know. I may be as abrasive at times, usually more so, but only to those who deserve it by what they post: thankfully the three prime offenders have either been banned or have left. This board's getting a rep as a place to avoid, and I can completely understand that.

Mikie, Donny, Andrew, ♯♫♩♬, Pixeltwin, DRBeachBoy, Shady, everyone… this round's on me, watcha having?

:beer

As long as you're footing the bill, whatia recommend, John? Today, I'll have a Mendocino Red Tail or Blue Heron Pale Ale.  There's a lotta IPA's out there right now, but I'll stick with Sierra, Mendocino, or a Blue Moon for now.  I also like a Tsingtao or Sapporo one in awhile with some good Thai food on the side.

(http://www.cool-story.com/userfiles/bud-light.jpg)

Next round is on me! I snuck into Club Kokomo last night and picked up some real beer for us to enjoy. ;D

I don't drink, but raise a glass in my honor!

What do you recommend goes with Chicken McNuggets?  ???

A warm Bud Light.

Mental illness is real, and for those who struggle with it, it is a daily mountain that has to be climbed, just to function like everyday society. Having a disability only makes you stronger. That is what I hear Debbie saying.  Ray is a saint. He has devoted many years of his life to supporting Brian, no matter what the circumstances. The movie cannot tell the whole story. The truth is so much BIGGER than that.

an enema?

:lol

And that, folks, brings us back to Brian!  :lol

Gppd (aka rel) ales should be served at room temp.

Today's recommendation is, unexpectedly, Thwaites' Wainwright, currently being brewed by Marstons on Thwaites' behalf.

Peter; thats very nice of you to say , you can cash my check now !  My ex wife will correctly argue otherwise....the only thing in her entire existence she would be correct about I might add......on that note I will join John Manning at the bar

Off topic.  ;D

Interview with actors from the movie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKlj33Xp7wo

....is the bar located here?

(http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/files/2013/03/CityOfKokomo1.jpg)

No truth to the rumor that the deputy mayor is Sam Sleeptight.


*cough*

Pet Sessions? Part X? Ummm...yeah. :lol

It's pretty clear in a lot of threads here that people don't post how they would talk to someone in real life.  Standard internet forum behaviour.

I'd be up for more/stronger action on people who are clearly being offensive and rude to others.  This is not needed and you can just ignore it but, as Donnie rightly says, it does serve to lessen, derail and ultimately prevent the more interesting conversations.

Can't wait for the first trailer, mine's a Guiness John, Cheers!  :beer

His name is spelt "Donny".  And I'm "Mikie".  And you're..........."Marky" or "Markie"?  Glad to meet you.  :-D

It's very cool to hear John and Paul talking about what I assume is "Tune X" .

They really did their homework

Incredible, 5 star BBC review

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140911-beach-boys-film-a-miracle (http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140911-beach-boys-film-a-miracle)

Lagunitas Little Sumpin', please

(http://www.totalwine.com/_static/webupload/730/3_112731126_3.jpg)

Ray likes Stella Artois. Upon his recommendation, I brought a 6-er home a few weekends ago and tried one. I'll save the rest for when I show up on his doorstep with it. Ray, are you still accepting visitors?

If you're serving Stella, Mikie, you need to get the Stella glass. It's designed specifically for enhancing the flavor of Stella. I have one, got it when I bought a case for a party a few years ago.

I'm still waiting on my Hoegaarden glass to arrive in the mail, the one I supposedly "won" online.  ::)

 :lol  Marky!  Cheers and likewise!

This is something to be concerned about and address going forward. If it's not something for public viewing, anyone please feel free to contact me via private message or off the board to discuss the issues behind this.

Same here. I'm pretty approachable. ..i dont bite (unless you're made of food)

I think it's a blunt over reaction.  Those who choose to avoid the forum due to it's nature will avoid it while those who enjoy the temperament of the forum will continue to peruse it.  It's really no different from any other forum on the internet if you plot it on a bell curve.  You have a group of individuals all with opinions, being allowed to express those opinions (within the bounds of societal norms and good taste) freely.  You have some forum members who are more sensitive to criticism than others and then you have other forum members who feel the need to shout down the viewpoints of others at a regular clip.  Fortunately the moderators have done a bang up job of weeding out the individuals that occupy the second group.

In between these two extremes, you have the vast majority of the forum.  People who congregate here in hopes of exchanging ideas, sharing their passion over a common interest and generally having a good time.  The thing to remember at least in my opinion is that this isn't rocket science.  We are discussing a rock and roll band and our feelings regarding almost every aspect of said band.  We aren't looking to bloody noses or to provoke fights just for the sake of doing so.  We have passionate debates that like on any other internet forum can become adversarial in nature due to the aforementioned personalities of the parties involved.  There is nothing inherently extraordinary about this forum as far as that is concerned.  

If forum members are taking personal offense to another forum members actions then that is something that needs to be worked out preferably between the two parties involved.  More times than not it's the interaction between individual parties (which can oftentimes resolved amicably) and not the temperature of the entire forum which is the issue at hand.  To put it in layman's terms, some people are like "oil and water" and would be best not addressing each other on a public forum after it has been determined that more times than not any interaction between the parties results in conflict that derails the rest of the forum and brings the temperature in the room down to an icy chill.  This again goes back to what I mentioned about the other day about us all being adults and not needing a lecture from other forum members on how to conduct ourselves or compose our forum messages.  We should have all by now mastered the art of basic social interaction and as such are aware of the social boundaries that exist in terms of how to address one another.  The old phrases "attack the issue, not the person" and "don't say anything over a keyboard that you wouldn't say to someone's face" are extremely appropriate here.  Furthermore more times than not it's patently obvious when somebody crosses these social boundaries and those issues are the ones that should be dealt with through moderation in hopes of preserving the forum.  

However, in the main most issues that arise within the forum itself can be worked out between the dissenting parties.  Either through agreeing to disagree, the tacit knowledge that you can disagree with a person's viewpoints on a matter but still value the person themselves or simply avoiding forum members with whom you know you are likely to find conflict with.  We have what almost 3,000 members here?  Surely we can all find someone (if not many people) we enjoy conversing with.  

In summation the sky is not falling, the surf will undoubtedly continue to rise and fall and Mike Love will continue to be true to his school.

^ Well said John

Not saying anyone needs to treat the special guests with kid gloves or anything, but I think it's fair to say that most aren't exactly experienced message board users, so it's probably going to rub them the wrong way to use an attacking tone in a reply. And I took a couple of the responses to Debbie's posts as attacking, even if they weren't intended that way, so it's entirely possible and probable that she did too.

As someone who doesn't post often but reads this message board every day, I think the new information that special guests bring is very special. And it's something that most users with an outside view don't bring. Of course, posters with an outside view make this board readable on a daily basis.

Yes, those kinds of threads are a good example of what I'm talking about. They were basically a few of us asking a bunch of questions, coming up with a bunch of theories, and kind of not really getting anywhere ... because some of the people who may have the answers are not posting. Yes, there are many reasons beyond the tone of board, but I really believe that is part of it.

If I ever come up with any great info ... regarding questions like, 'Where was Pet Sounds mixed?' (such a basic question!), I will surely start a thread about it. I did notice in one of the photos from the 'Love and Mercy' movie, they got the Columbia 8-track tape machine correct -- which is quite a feat. It was custom made from Ampex PR-10/354 stereo electronics mated to a 300 transport -- a one-off. So they either got the original machine, or created one from parts. Possible that Columbia made more than one of these, or that some other person/studio made one in the same way, so don't bet any money that it's the original machine!

PS - I'm in Portland, OR now. I sure do miss Oakland/SF/Berkeley ... even San Leandro!

I do think the tone of the board can be a bit snarky. I've been here for a few years but have a relatively low post count because I just don't feel like engaging in mud slinging over my favorite band. A simple statement like "I don't really care for X" gets you 10 people insisting that you must not be a "real fan."  There's nothing wrong with having opposing opinions. There's also nothing wrong with treating each other with respect while expressing them.

Before I begin I want to state for the record that what I'm about to post should not be viewed as a personal attack of any sort and I am merely using your post as a jumping off point as you do raise a number of good issues.


If you could identity the party that is to blame for this (if any) it would be helpful in finding a resolution to the issue at hand.  The problem is I personally am not sure if there is a guilty party in this matter.  We live in the age in which communication over a keyboard is becoming more and more the norm and a skill that many more people are becoming adept at than not. While I have sympathy and understanding for the novice, when you enter the forum you should at least have some understanding as to how internet forums in general function.  If anything you should realize that they are not always accurate predictors of social interaction but more of a social brainstorming for lack of a better term where people ask questions, debate and interact with one another in hopes of furthering discussion of the topic at hand.



This is where subjectivity comes into play.  When speaking of individual personalities that comprise a group it's impossible to dilute the entire group down to the lowest common denominator where everyone addresses everyone else in a type of manner which could be agreed upon by all members of the group as being non-offensive.  "Treating others the way you wish to be treated yourself" is good advice but what it does not allow for is the notion of subjectivity which demonstrates what one might find a perfectly acceptable means of conversing could very easily strike another as a post which is of an antagonizing nature.  Therefore what satisfies one forum member will more often than not fail to satisfy the next.  Which is why these situations are best taken at face value and can be analyzed as individual cases rather than painting these situations with a wide brush.  


You bring up two very good points here.  First hand knowledge is important and should be regarded as such.  It allows the forum members to access concrete knowledge and answers to questions which otherwise may be left up for speculation and opinion.  However one of the hallmarks of being able to learn from one another as a group is the ability for the members of the forum to question matters which to them don't make sense or don't jive with their viewpoints on the matter.  While knowledge is indeed power, what is in fact more powerful is the opportunity to question that knowledge in hopes of accessing truth.  Essentially one entity doesn't exist without the other.  There is of course a distinct difference between questioning someone's opinions or statements and questioning just to antagonize another party.  But once again, the differences between these two forms of questioning are usually quite evident right from the very start.  

Edit: And with that I think I'm done with this discussion as I probably haven't told anyone anything they didn't already know.  Apologies in advance for any feathers I may have ruffled in this thread as the song goes: "I sure don't wanna hurt no one"

Don't know if this has been posted yet, interview from the Variety YouTube channel:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBbHzjkQZzY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBbHzjkQZzY)

Some times it's just better to listen than be heard.

Can we just for a moment appreciate that we have this unbelievably active and up to to the second with news message board to discuss our favorite band. Few artists have a message board about them this good, actually barley any.

It's genuinely a pleasure to post here and I would never let a snide comment or whatever stop me from coming on here every day.

Absolutely

These:



I was far from the only person that took those posts as "attacking," so I'm not sure if your "lowest common denominator" example really works here.

And it's not very difficult to be subjective when the poster we're talking about is Debbie Kell. Is it really that hard for someone to go out of their way to be respectful if we want another person to stick around?


Do you know what's more powerful than the opportunity to question? Allowing someone to stick around for more than four posts to acquire more knowledge.

You're not impressing or convincing anyone when you write a novel and then act like you're too proud to reply to a response.

Alright...this has gone on long enough. Please take the disagreements to PM, please. There's exciting things heading our way, and let's concentrate on that, shall we?

 :woot

Well, gosh darn…

Allow me....

The allure of a big-screen biographical drama is simple and almost childlike: in our dream scenario, we're not just watching a movie – we're stepping into a time machine until we're in the presence of Abe Lincoln, Jim Morrison or Mozart. Yet the reason biopics have always fought for respectability – when they so often seem corny – is that few of them truly transport us into the past. The actors rarely look exactly like the people they're playing; the storylines waver between the specific and the generic. Overall, they're just not that authentic.

Once in a while, though, you see a biopic that brings off something miraculous, that recreates a famous person's life with so much care that the immersion we seek is achieved. When you watch Love & Mercy, a drama about Brian Wilson, the angelic yet haunted genius of The Beach Boys, you feel like you're right there in the studio with him as he creates Pet Sounds. And it's a little like sitting next to Beethoven: the film is tender and moving, but also awe-inspiring. Paul Dano, the audacious young actor from There Will Be Blood and Little Miss Sunshine, plays Wilson in the mid-1960s, when he was becoming the greatest creative force in American pop music. The moment we see Dano in the film's daringly off-kilter opening shot, which is just Brian noodling around at the piano and talking to himself, the actor seems to transform into Wilson's very being. The pale, cute moon face, the smile with a hint of a grimace, the disarming spaciness – this isn't just acting, it's channeling of a very high order.

It gets around

Love & Mercy was co-written by Oren Moverman (along with Michael A Lerner), the co-writer of Todd Haynes' Bob Dylan fantasia I'm Not There; and it was directed by Bill Pohlad, who has mostly been a producer (of films like 12 Years a Slave, Into the Wild and Brokeback Mountain). Together, these two have come up with an innovative structure that takes on a haunting resonance. Dano plays Brian at the pivotal moment when he’d climbed to his artistic peak but, through a combination of drug use and commercial pressures began to break down. The film cuts back and forth between this inspiring and tragic saga and scenes set 20 years later, when Brian is played by John Cusack as the wreck he had become. He has placed himself under the constant care of Dr Eugene Landy (Paul Giamatti), a hustler and psychological guru who has succeeded in drawing Brian out of the depths of his depression (he'd spent three years in bed). But Landy has also, in effect, made Brian his meal ticket and prisoner, doping him up on pharmaceutical drugs. This latter-day Brian has been ‘rescued’, but only as a zombie – that is, until the day he goes shopping for a Cadillac and meets Melinda (Elizabeth Banks), who sells cars in the showroom. The two begin to date, because she sees the loving soul beneath Brian’s sadness.

It's jarring, at first, to have Wilson played by two actors. You could argue that it doesn't entirely work, since Dano, who has always been an inspired space cadet, inhabits the role as if born to it, while Cusack, dialing down his usual verbal precocity, simply doesn't look – or feel – like Brian Wilson in quite the same way: when Cusack is on screen, we're out of the time machine, back on more conventional biopic ground. Yet as staged, the story of what happened to Wilson in the '80s is still a marvel of tenderness, discovery and even suspense. Can Melinda pry Brian out of the clutches of Landy, played by Giamatti as a dictator in healer's clothing who will destroy Brian in order to save him? Cusack gives a richly subtle and moving performance, showing us an incomparable artist who's been shattered to pieces. And we want to know: how, exactly, did that happen?

Tuned in

Love & Mercy offers up the answer with delicate fascination and insight. Early on, Dano's Brian tells the other Beach Boys that he wants to stop touring with them and retreat into the recording studio.

It's a surprisingly squashed and narrow space, and as Brian records all the backing tracks, Dano is almost goofy with eagerness, his eyes popping wide, his face split by a crooked grin of joy. His performance shows that Brian was in fact a mere boy when he created his masterpiece. He was only 23, but psychologically he was younger, a kid playing with the ultimate train set.

It's when the Beach Boys return from touring, and get ready to lay down the album's vocal tracks, that conflict sets in. Mike Love, portrayed with likable vigour by Jake Abel, leads the charge against Brian: he doesn't get this dreamy slow music dipped in gorgeous LA twilight. "Even his happy songs are sad!" rails Love. And, of course, he's right: on Pet Sounds, Brian combined happiness with sadness and transformed them into the sublime. But when the album turns out to be a commercial disappointment, superficially vindicating Love's hostility toward it, Brian becomes unhinged.

The film offers a complex view of what derailed him. It follows Wilson through his piano-in-the-sandbox phase, shows how he pulled himself together to record Good Vibrations and finally, after that song's extraordinary success, it tracks his heartbreaking descent into the insanity of the Smile sessions. Each time the film cuts from Dano to Cusack, the double casting feels more right: it reveals that Brian Wilson, once he'd lost his music, lost himself. He was a different person. Love & Mercy captures how a great American artist created the musical equivalent of grace, then fell from it, yet somehow found himself – and grace – again.

★★★★★

Alan ! Good to see you: watch out, it can get feisty here...

Prettie Funkie, y'r a star!

I wonder if the BBc is integrated sufficiently well to take note of its own film reviews and snap this film up for the small screen (probably to be shown as part of some 2am early morning highbrow arts series for people who don't need jobs…).

Careful with that stuff Mikie. In the UK we call it "Stella-act-a-twat", 'cos 5 pints and you'll be acting like one. Regular wife beating juice.

:lol

So, it was John Manning who sang Daddy Dear!!!

I think an atmosphere of snarkyness has developed. I've been as my much of a part of it as any so I'm not going to point any fingers. People here are passionate and the board has always had a casual attitude to moderation so I think a more 'locker room' atmosphere was inevitable and I appreciate it suits many here. The mods devote significant amounts of their time to this place for free so I hope this doesn't come across as a criticism of them - that's not my intention.

 I have been posting a lot at the Hoffman board recently. I used to moan about the heavy handed moderation there. Hoffman has a brand to maintain and the 'gorts' don't tolerate any behaviour that might be deemed negative. Therefore if the slightest row erupts hoffman law is hammered down, posts are removed and threads are locked. Granted, this doesn't do wonders for freedom of speech but, coupled with the 'like' function, the board does feel extremely friendly. People are very civil towards one another and most threads have an overall positive tone. I have to say, it's a fun place to discuss music.

Perhaps this place might benefit from two separate boards, one that is more 'locker room' and another that is much more heavily moderated with a zero tolerance stance on rudeness, rows, whatever. At the very least you'd decrease the amount of threads that get bogged down in negativity, and it might attract some interesting insider types too.

 I appreciate this would be much more work for the mods and probably a nightmare to intitate, but for what it's worth and as guitarfool asked, those are my 2c.

Buddhahat makes some really great points here.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that forum is heavy handed.  The thing they managed to curtail there is certain opinionated members taking over threads by aggressively arguing their point of view.  They allow everyone to say their piece but once a viewpoint has been made sufficiently any attempt to beat a dead horse or to shout one's opinion down in favor of your own is curtailed.  This is why for the record I chose not to take any responses to my last posting.  I said my peace and really have nothing left to address on that front as anything else would be a simple re-wording of what I already said.

Anyhow back to Hoffman...the forum is extremely friendly but in some ways is similar to this one.  People are civil to each other but I've also seen my fair share of "heated threads" over there as well.  Also my read on that forum (much like this one) is before entering, you should at least have some basic knowledge about what you are speaking of prior to posting.  If not you'll often be asked/told to use the "search function" to brush up on the basics so to speak.  Neither forum has ever exactly been novice/newbie friendly but in short of someone writing up a very detailed FAQ post (which would be difficult to do for this forum and impossible for that forum) the search function really is the novice's friend. 

I think your posting about having "two forums" on here actually already exists in a way as "The Sandbox" (which I rarely venture into personally) is allowed to feature more candid conversation as opposed to the main forums.  Perhaps moving some of the spicier threads in there could be an option but again I wonder if it would take away from the character of the forum essentially making the main forum for casual viewers only (encompassing much of the general public) and the other forum for serious and heated debate on The Beach Boys?

I always sing that way after a beer or three, gee!

We absolutely DO NOT need a heavy-handed strict board like the Hoffman. This board is just fine, thanks. The mods here are just fine, thanks. And Chuck LePage is just fine, thanks. I personally only read the Hoffman but don't feel inclined to post there. I've already been there - done that on a board moderated by someone throwing her weight around exerting the school marm attitude looking over your shoulder watching what you post all the time ready with the ruler to the knuckles. Uh, no, not any more.

By the way, notice that message board is no longer with us??  ;D

Decloaking here...I admit I've had to take "vacations" from the board from time to time because of the bickering and occasional outright attacks.

Yes, I am a passionate BB fan and do take the BB's "seriously"...but still with the attitude that it's more about fun, the joy of music, etc. I've always been of the mind that at its best, Smileysmile is a "gentlemanly" place to discuss things: there may be disagreements, but with tact and mutual respect, that needn't spoil the spirit of things. (At worst, it can be a playground tainted by bullies.)

Let's be ladies and gentlemen about things. It's important.

And now, to steer back to the actual topic, I'm finding it amazing to hear how many details from the long/amazing BB/BW story have made it into this film. Is it 4 hours long? Or just incredibly well organized? It seems almost unfathomable that so much ground can be covered in the length of a single movie.

PS--I sure wish there were a Beatles forum like this place. Haven't found one yet. (And please don't point me to the 910!)

Ok, lets get back on topic!  I have a very very important question that I don't think has been addressed yet.  Perhaps the most important question of all!!!!!

How is Mike's baldness in the movie?  Is he realistically bald-ish?  Do they shave Jake Abel's hairline back a few inches??  I MUST KNOW!!!!

Thank you to everyone who has offered comments and suggestions so far. Please, keep em' coming! And again, if anyone is not comfortable or simply doesn't want to post it in public, drop me a line in a message or off the board.

Sometimes the only way to see what might need to be changed or revised is to get a consensus of opinions, and if there is something that many people seem to be pointing at, it suggests a priority issue that needs to be addressed.

Speaking for myself, I want to use this thread and the most resent posts to illustrate my opinion on something. Some might say bringing in the topic of board issues and comments/complaints/suggestions is going way off topic, but consider this: It's a "hot" issue that people are talking about now, based on this discussion in which some of the issues may have come up indirectly. What better place to hash things out then in a discussion where the issues are current?

Some more heavily moderated boards would have declared these sidebar conversations "off topic" and delete them. I'm not in favor of doing that to a degree, naturally there are limits. But how do people talk in real life? Is everything laser-focused on one and only one topic? Of course not, there is a natural free-flow to any interactions, and the board can successfully exist in that same way without having a strong moderation which strikes down any sidebar or even a fun off-topic detour.

However, I will chime in about the suggestions for a lesser-moderated adjunct board, or even one without moderation. I might agree on paper, but in reality it would lead to a lot of trouble, both for posters and whoever admins it.

There are simply too many issues that come up on a regular basis, which the community may not see or be aware of, that require some level of vigilance to monitor. There are attempts by spammers and hucksters to gain access to the board(s) and send spam, or even worse potentially troll for personal and contact info. These are weekly if not daily requests for membership.

There are legal issues that can arise: Copyright, interpersonal squabbles, inappropriate or illegal postings, having flame wars escalate to the level of stalking and harassment...it happens, and it can get ugly. If you offer a forum free of regular moderation, or a hands-off atmosphere, it can and will get ugly fast, and often not from regular members but from people who might come for less than upfront purposes, such as the spammers.

Re: The Sandbox. Let me get on my "soapbox" for a second...I'm not preaching, I'm not judging, I'm just offering my take. I have had issues with the Sandbox, mostly surrounding the type of posts that appear. It is a place for people to hang out, interact, share, discuss...topics that are not directly related to the BB's or music in general. Share stuff like an informal meeting, just have fun and talk. Or talk politics, religion, whatever...like real life, right?

Some of the topics started there are beyond baffling. I'm not judging, again, but commenting...I don't know what drives someone to post some of the topics that have gotten started in the Sandbox. I can say no more, other than it can be baffling to think why someone would come to a music based board and start a topic that isn't just far from music, but far from any everyday conversation I think most people in the world would engage. I'll say no more, other than the Sandbox should be a cool hangout, a place to chat and discuss and share and even laugh...beyond that, consider if some of the topics there would be appropriate in any other regular everyday conversation between people.

Sorry for the diversion, these things can and will be moved to a separate topic if requested, but again my theory is if it is a topic being currently discussed, let's hammer it out while it's still hot, and clean up afterward.  ;D

I would like it moved to another thread. Everytime I see this one bumped I think it's something OT.

I would change the thread title to "Love and Mercy Reviews Thread" or somesuch.

But keep it on the main board. It depends on the subject, but I've found that using the word "review" can throw water on a hot thread topic because some readers see "review" and don't care to read reviews, but instead discuss the album or show or film in their own words.

Still some stuff to work out.

Guitarfool, I vote initially for a "same moderation, but more self-policing" policy. If that fails, then...the spanking begins!

"Official Love and Mercy Discussion Thread"?  ;D

That sounds good! I'm all for the moderation aspect only coming in when absolutely necessary, of course depending on the issues at hand. But self-policing is one of the better ways to keep things on an even flow, for sure.

I'm being redundant, but I think self-policing can also involve letting us know if there are issues or problems that need to be addressed, and the only way to do that is to contact any of the moderators with suggestions or to inform of issues that may be happening so they can be addressed.

I will try to get this sub-topic onto another thread, like a "suggestion box" or something, so the film can be the focus.

Update: Individual posts cannot be moved into another topic. There is no function in the board's design which allows this. Posts can be merged, but it's like taking ten steps to the side to move one forward. Still working on this, bear with me.  :(

I'll be sure to look out for that! Over here in the U.S., we don't call it "wife beating". We call it "domestic violence" or "spousal abuse". We stop short of calling it "assault & battery" especially when a celebrity is involved because those terms have less impact and don't sound as bad in court.

GREAT new interview to the cast and director, from Variety.
They talk A LOT about Brian and his music.  :3d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBbHzjkQZzY

Oh, and the movie has now a score in Rotten Tomatoes, 88% of aproval (8 reviews so far), wich is really great.  :)
Let's hope it stands that up.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/love_and_mercy/

Thanks for the link to the Variety interview............the cast seemed genuinely sincere in their admiration and appreciation of Brian and his story.   

You're all so caught up in the fucking bickering that this beauty of a review got buried.  Thanks for posting Pretty Funky!

We saw this already.  Pretty Funky posted it yesterday.  It's old news.

Back to bickering.