Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray. Thanks for stopping by...again!

Most of us appreciate how complex it is managing Brian's career and his well being together and as I have said before, Melinda and those closest to him 24/7 are best qualified whether we want it or not.

On another note. We appreciate you can't give exact details but any idea how the album is going and when an official announcement may be made about its release date? Same with the movie.

Hi ;  I wish I knew when those announcements would be made but my guess is that it will be sometime over the summer. My best guess

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't think it's really any big deal to suggest that Brian is "controlled" by his people and doesn't make his own decisions ..... This is nothing very original for a rock star and it's something of a pattern with Brian..... If someone had taken offense to suggesting Brian was controlled by Landy etc, it would have turned out to be basically true, right?

I think it's as simple as Brian trusts his wife and his advisors. They know him and probably know what he wants/doesn't want without even having to ask him. If Brian wishes to not be bothered with this or that, then it's their job to assure he doesn't. If this means they have to be harsh and cut some people out of the communication loop: so be it ..... When it comes to someone like Ambha, Mike, or any other Beach Boy, it's takes on a whole different color because it's family, and the hurt feelings run a lot deeper..... I read a book about the Stones 72 tour and the insulated universe created by managers/wives/hangers-on, label suits, drug dealers, etc was complete insanity. There was actually a complex system of inner "circles' and "levels" one had to traverse in order to be granted access to The Stones starting at the backup musicians and then on to Bill, Charlie, and then all the way up to Mick! It seemed that in order to manage their basic functions of musicians who are led onto a stage to perform for a couple hours (at that heightened level of the game) this whole charade was highly necessary .... Sure, Brian's 72 or whatever, but it's still a good analogy ....... Therefore, taking this all into consideration: it's perfectly OK and understandable for Brian to exist in such a world, and it is perfectly OK and understandable for his family to from time to time have their feelings hurt..... I can't see it as an insult to Brian to simply acknowledge such a reality.

[HeyJude]

I think the Beach Boys reunion could have gotten future offers. However, the two specific dates that were mentioned sounded a little odd. One was Wrigley Field in Chicago, which would not have come to pass until the following year, due to Chicago weather. Wrigley Field has a seating capacity of up to 64,000 for a concert. I'm not sure the reunited Beach Boys could draw 64,000 people, at least on their own. The other was Madison Square Garden, and I'm not sure where I read it, but supposedly Madison Square Garden on New Year's Eve. It so happens that Phish has been playing that venue for years on New Year's Eve, as well as days around it. The venue also would have already been booked long before for that date. So, would the Beach Boys have been opening up for Phish? Would they have been on a bill with other bands for Wrigley, too, in order to draw a crowd large enough to fill that stadium? They may not have been fabricating those dates out of nothing, but there may have been some details left out and/or the offers weren't completely firm without certain contingencies.

As for a second album for the reunion, that album proposal was a fact. That's why Brian is recording for Capitol right now. But it's also taking him a long time, over 15 months. To add to that, where would the time have come to do many tour dates if a second album recording had been undertaken? Of course, a Beach Boy project might have gone faster, if Brian had tour deadlines to meet. TWGMTR was made fairly quickly. But the other part of the equation is whether Brian would have been up to doing 100 dates or more a year, or even 70 dates a year, for the past couple of years. He didn't just have one back operation, he had two. The first one failed and he needed a second one, as I recall.

Trying to sleuth the 2012 schedule for Wrigley Field is missing the point. There were offers, Brian and Al apparently wanted to take them, but they couldn't. Mike nor anybody else ever suggested that the logistics of potential post-September 2012 tour dates was the reason they didn't happen.

I also have little doubt that, had everything fallen into the place, the group could have done another tour and album in 2013, on a roughly similar scale to 2012. Again, how many dates Brian could withstand is not the issue, and nobody (including Mike) has ever said that was the issue.

Those who advocate that the reunion should have continued are not necessarily suggesting it would have gone on forever. If anything, the fact that it probably would/could have just extended through the end of 2012 and maybe 2013 before breaking makes it sadder that they couldn't hold it all together.

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray,

Your points are well taken.  Agree or disagree, Brian makes his decisions in consultation with his "advisors," just like everybody else in the business.  I am curious why Brian didn't attend the Ella Awards in Beverly Hills, when his cousin, bandmate and lyricist Mike Love was the recipient.  Couldn't he put aside the acrimony of the past for one night?

Thanks.  I don't know the answer to this question ; however neither one has made an effort to attend each other's awards presentations   ; I know Mike wasn't there at the Kennedy Center or MusicCares for Brian's awards ; that's the way it's been for these guys. Maybe it will change. And then we'll have world peace

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Maybe these guys just wanna spare each other the headache and circus that would occur if either would show up for those kinds of things.

[HeyJude]

I'm sure every band member of a group that's had a long tenure like the Eagles and Beach Boys have an army of representation for them.  Once the band becomes a corporation, well that's pretty much the end of the "band" mentality. 

But the Beach Boys could have (and I suppose still could if anything can be salvaged) hired a Neil Aspinall-type to run their entire corporation. Check out some old posts from Howie Edelson. As if often the case, he succinctly described a scenario where the BB's could have hired this type of person to handle things, all year round. Not a manager who handles the touring band. Not an agent who double as a member's agent. A head of a company type who gets everybody at the table and does what it takes to get everybody on the same page. As Edelson put it, that's how you end up with Paul, Ringo, Olivia, and Yoko together on Larry King kissing each others' asses. There's all kinds of past lawsuits and personal acrimony between them, with even more money floating around their empire than within the BB's.

Howie mentioned that he even brought this up to Mike while interviewing him during the 2012 tour, to have someone in-house to basically serve the role that Joe Thomas did for awhile there in 2012.

As Howie also alluded to, say what you want about Joe Thomas, but he wrung a tour, two DVDs, a live album, and a new studio album out of those guys over the span of a single year. I don't think, given what's going on now, that Thomas could serve that Aspinall-type function long term. But someone like Aspinall should have been there, not only to keep the guys all happy and in relative agreement (yes, even the BB's can be brought together with the right skill), but to protect the band's legacy in all the ways Aspinall protected the Beatles, in terms of branding, marketing, all that stuff.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Finally , this fiction about "the people around Brian" , the "wifeandmanagers" or as one poster recently put it " Brian brings along a steamboat full of people" ( I am paraphrasing ) ..so I ask again....who are they ? What are their names ? I would like to meet them .  What do they do for Brian ? And Melinda Wilson doesn't count , she is his wife . Jean Sievers doesn't count , she is his manager/publicist.  So someone please inform me who they are . Names please.

Have a great day , Ray

We're not supposed to know. That's the way it works. That's the way they want it. That's their goal. It's called being Brian Wilson. But, since you asked, I would start with Melinda, his manager/publicist, his attorneys, his accountants, his doctors, his collaborators, maybe bandmates, close friends. I apologize for not knowing their names.

And, why doesn't Melinda count just because she's his wife? She's a lot more than that. It's very naive to think otherwise. I'm sure you know, Ray, that a conservator was appointed before Brian married Melinda.

Hi Sheriff ,

I think you have missed one of my points; Melinda and Jean don't count because anyone who reads this board knows who they are and can name check them. Now I am certain Mike has attorneys, accountants, band mates and friends as well , but I have yet to see a post about "the people around Mike".   Or Al.  Or David. It's only mentioned in a quasi derogatory way about Brian.  Yes Melinda does a lot more than just being his wife, everyone knows that. You don't think Jacquie Love is not seriously involved in the business dealings of the touring band with Mike, or MaryAnne Jardine being seriously involved in Al's career ? Or Carrie Marks with David ? That's why I asked for names as I see variations on the same theme with all the guys , but the derogatory terms are only applied to Brian , which to me is disingenuous at best. My point is that there is no group of handlers surrounding Brian ; he listens to his wife , his publicist and that's about it.

I am more than aware of all of the issues involving Brian's conservancy , which was terminated 15 years ago.

Thank you, Ray, for your response. I am going to respond, but if you choose to respond again, and I hope you do, I won't be responding any further. I'm not ignoring your possible future posts, and, I'm certainly not running away from the issues. But, with all respect, I don't want things to escalate which may cause you to leave the board. People want to hear what YOU have to say, not the ramblings of a pompous blowhard like me.

I read an interesting survey/study where it showed that fans prefer an artist's albums of original, self-composed material over an artist's album of cover versions. It didn't say that fans couldn't appreciate an album of covers - hey, good music is good music - just that they on a whole preferred original material. The study went on to say that fans appreciate more when a song originates from the artist; that the idea, the genesis, or the vision of the song comes from the artist's heart and soul if you will.

Being a fan of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys, I can understand that premise. Do you know why I like Brian Wilson's music? Because it sounds great. But do you know why I love it so very much? Because, for lack of a better word, the relationship with the artist. The relationship takes it - the love and appreciation of the music - a step further, to greater heights, to another level of appreciation. It's what being a fan is all about. You read about the artist, you see them on TV, in concert, maybe you meet them for a minute, and you form a bond, an attachment, you're "hooked" if you will. You become a fanatic, a diehard.

So, we love Brian's music not just because of the notes, arrangement, and performance, but because it's Brian's music, and we love Brian the artist. There is a thread going on right now about "Do You Wanna Dance?" If a poll was taken on this board comparing Bobby Freeman's version to the Beach Boys' version, how do you think the results would turn out? Now compare that poll to a national, unbiased poll. Do you think the percentages for the Beach Boys' version would be higher on this board than the national poll? Of course they would. Are those higher percentages based strictly on the musical merits of the song, or are the percentages also influenced by Dennis Wilson's lead vocal - and we like Dennis Wilson. Dennis' vocal might not be any better than Bobby Freeman's, but we like Dennis the Beach Boy, and that's important to us. We have a musical relationship to Dennis, we don't with Bobby Freeman.

Where am I going with all of this? Like I said, a lot of our appreciation of Brian Wilson's music has to do with the music being "created" by him. Brian thought about doing an acoustic album with some background chatter and made The Beach Boys' Party - and we loved it. Brian found an outside lyricist to write more mature lyrics, gathered The Wrecking Crew together, and made Pet Sounds - and we loved it. Brian wanted a stripped, psychedelic doo-wop feel and composed Smiley Smile - and we loved it. Brian wanted to do an album of "homey" songs about the simple joys of life and gave us Friends - and we loved it. A damaged Brian went into the studio with a synthesizer and some songs and blew us away with Love You - and we loved it. We loved the music, yes. But we also appreciated - VERY MUCH - that it was Brian's ideas, Brian's vision, and most of it was Brian's work. I'm getting there, Ray. Bear with me.

Going all the way back to the late 1960's, but especially after Love You in 1976-77, there appears to be a dwindling of all the things I mentioned above related to Brian's ideas, production, and overall contributions to his work. But that's not what bothers me and some long-time diehard fans. It's the failure of some, not only to admit it, but then trying to cover it up to the point of deceiving the fans and general listening public. You know the old saying about it not being the crime that gets people in trouble, but the covering up that follows. And I "get" it, Ray. I understand that Brian is not the same artist as he used to be, and needs help in certain areas to complete his work. I get that. This might shock some but I actually work with people with disabilities for a living. And, on many levels, Brian is to be commended for what he has overcome.

It's just that there seems to be an increasing number or an accumulation of things in Brian's career that makes a fan skeptical. If you have studied Brian Wilson for years, and I've been a fan since 1974, you just can't help but question "was that Brian's idea?", "did he write that?", "does he care about that?", and "if it didn't come from Brian's heart and soul, should I care?". And why do you find yourself asking those questions? Because of the perception of Brian Wilson that we see on stage, see in interviews, read about in books and publications, comments from others like the recent Jeff Beck episode, and from all of the people surrounding Brian who appear to be influencing him. Can you really blame a fan for being cynical and jaded? Like somebody's trying to pull something over on you?

There's so many things that raise a red flag. What really was Russ Titelman's role on BW 1988? Who really wrote "Meet Me In My Dream's Tonight"? Was it Brian's idea to move away from Southern California to Illinois? Was it Brian's idea to record an album with Joe Thomas' musicians? Was it Brian's idea to then sue Joe Thomas? Who sequenced BWPS? Brian said on a few occasions it was Darian, but we weren't supposed to know that. Who picked the songs for What I Really Want for Christmas? Whose idea was it to bring in Jeff Beck as a collaborator, the Jeff Beck that Brian barely spoke to? Whose idea was it to bring in Zooey, Lana, and Kasey? Whose idea was it to scold the fans for voicing their opinions on Facebook? And on and on....

Some will say it doesn't matter who came up with the ideas, that the final product is all that matters. Not to repeat but it does matter. It matters when you want the artist to care. And when it's your idea, you have a tendency to care more, to want it to succeed, to put your heart and soul into it, to get more involved in the process. That makes for great art, at least it did for Brian at one time. I'm not insinuating that Brian doesn't care about what he is working on - well, I guess I am to some extent. But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I knew he was the one coming up with the ideas, was fully vested in the process, and was making the final decisions. I'm not sure that he is. And I resent it when people make it appear that he is.

[KittyKat]

Neil Aspinall knew the Beatles since they were children. It's hard to hire someone from the outside at this late date that they all could feel they could trust. Lord knows they've all made mistakes in trusting the wrong people over the years, too. Neil was unique in that he also picked up a movie camera and documented so many of the things that the Beatles did over the years, thus forming the basis for the Anthology project.

[Wirestone]

Good thing that Brian Wilson never did anything unusual or erratic or confusing before 1977.

[clack]

I'm not insinuating that Brian doesn't care about what he is working on - well, I guess I am to some extent.

You're not insinuating, but then you guess you are.

But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I knew he was the one coming up with the ideas, was fully vested in the process, and was making the final decisions. I'm not sure that he is. And I resent it when people make it appear that he is.

You're not sure that he is coming up with the ideas, is fully invested, is making the final decisions -- you're uncertain, maybe he is, maybe he isn't -- but you resent people who -- what? Tell us something that you concede might in fact be true? That doesn't make any sense.

[Ray Lawlor]

Finally , this fiction about "the people around Brian" , the "wifeandmanagers" or as one poster recently put it " Brian brings along a steamboat full of people" ( I am paraphrasing ) ..so I ask again....who are they ? What are their names ? I would like to meet them .  What do they do for Brian ? And Melinda Wilson doesn't count , she is his wife . Jean Sievers doesn't count , she is his manager/publicist.  So someone please inform me who they are . Names please.

Have a great day , Ray

We're not supposed to know. That's the way it works. That's the way they want it. That's their goal. It's called being Brian Wilson. But, since you asked, I would start with Melinda, his manager/publicist, his attorneys, his accountants, his doctors, his collaborators, maybe bandmates, close friends. I apologize for not knowing their names.

And, why doesn't Melinda count just because she's his wife? She's a lot more than that. It's very naive to think otherwise. I'm sure you know, Ray, that a conservator was appointed before Brian married Melinda.

Hi Sheriff ,

I think you have missed one of my points; Melinda and Jean don't count because anyone who reads this board knows who they are and can name check them. Now I am certain Mike has attorneys, accountants, band mates and friends as well , but I have yet to see a post about "the people around Mike".   Or Al.  Or David. It's only mentioned in a quasi derogatory way about Brian.  Yes Melinda does a lot more than just being his wife, everyone knows that. You don't think Jacquie Love is not seriously involved in the business dealings of the touring band with Mike, or MaryAnne Jardine being seriously involved in Al's career ? Or Carrie Marks with David ? That's why I asked for names as I see variations on the same theme with all the guys , but the derogatory terms are only applied to Brian , which to me is disingenuous at best. My point is that there is no group of handlers surrounding Brian ; he listens to his wife , his publicist and that's about it.

I am more than aware of all of the issues involving Brian's conservancy , which was terminated 15 years ago.

Thank you, Ray, for your response. I am going to respond, but if you choose to respond again, and I hope you do, I won't be responding any further. I'm not ignoring your possible future posts, and, I'm certainly not running away from the issues. But, with all respect, I don't want things to escalate which may cause you to leave the board. People want to hear what YOU have to say, not the ramblings of a pompous blowhard like me.

I read an interesting survey/study where it showed that fans prefer an artist's albums of original, self-composed material over an artist's album of cover versions. It didn't say that fans couldn't appreciate an album of covers - hey, good music is good music - just that they on a whole preferred original material. The study went on to say that fans appreciate more when a song originates from the artist; that the idea, the genesis, or the vision of the song comes from the artist's heart and soul if you will.

Being a fan of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys, I can understand that premise. Do you know why I like Brian Wilson's music? Because it sounds great. But do you know why I love it so very much? Because, for lack of a better word, the relationship with the artist. The relationship takes it - the love and appreciation of the music - a step further, to greater heights, to another level of appreciation. It's what being a fan is all about. You read about the artist, you see them on TV, in concert, maybe you meet them for a minute, and you form a bond, an attachment, you're "hooked" if you will. You become a fanatic, a diehard.

So, we love Brian's music not just because of the notes, arrangement, and performance, but because it's Brian's music, and we love Brian the artist. There is a thread going on right now about "Do You Wanna Dance?" If a poll was taken on this board comparing Bobby Freeman's version to the Beach Boys' version, how do you think the results would turn out? Now compare that poll to a national, unbiased poll. Do you think the percentages for the Beach Boys' version would be higher on this board than the national poll? Of course they would. Are those higher percentages based strictly on the musical merits of the song, or are the percentages also influenced by Dennis Wilson's lead vocal - and we like Dennis Wilson. Dennis' vocal might not be any better than Bobby Freeman's, but we like Dennis the Beach Boy, and that's important to us. We have a musical relationship to Dennis, we don't with Bobby Freeman.

Where am I going with all of this? Like I said, a lot of our appreciation of Brian Wilson's music has to do with the music being "created" by him. Brian thought about doing an acoustic album with some background chatter and made The Beach Boys' Party - and we loved it. Brian found an outside lyricist to write more mature lyrics, gathered The Wrecking Crew together, and made Pet Sounds - and we loved it. Brian wanted a stripped, psychedelic doo-wop feel and composed Smiley Smile - and we loved it. Brian wanted to do an album of "homey" songs about the simple joys of life and gave us Friends - and we loved it. A damaged Brian went into the studio with a synthesizer and some songs and blew us away with Love You - and we loved it. We loved the music, yes. But we also appreciated - VERY MUCH - that it was Brian's ideas, Brian's vision, and most of it was Brian's work. I'm getting there, Ray. Bear with me.

Going all the way back to the late 1960's, but especially after Love You in 1976-77, there appears to be a dwindling of all the things I mentioned above related to Brian's ideas, production, and overall contributions to his work. But that's not what bothers me and some long-time diehard fans. It's the failure of some, not only to admit it, but then trying to cover it up to the point of deceiving the fans and general listening public. You know the old saying about it not being the crime that gets people in trouble, but the covering up that follows. And I "get" it, Ray. I understand that Brian is not the same artist as he used to be, and needs help in certain areas to complete his work. I get that. This might shock some but I actually work with people with disabilities for a living. And, on many levels, Brian is to be commended for what he has overcome.

It's just that there seems to be an increasing number or an accumulation of things in Brian's career that makes a fan skeptical. If you have studied Brian Wilson for years, and I've been a fan since 1974, you just can't help but question "was that Brian's idea?", "did he write that?", "does he care about that?", and "if it didn't come from Brian's heart and soul, should I care?". And why do you find yourself asking those questions? Because of the perception of Brian Wilson that we see on stage, see in interviews, read about in books and publications, comments from others like the recent Jeff Beck episode, and from all of the people surrounding Brian who appear to be influencing him. Can you really blame a fan for being cynical and jaded? Like somebody's trying to pull something over on you?

There's so many things that raise a red flag. What really was Russ Titelman's role on BW 1988? Who really wrote "Meet Me In My Dream's Tonight"? Was it Brian's idea to move away from Southern California to Illinois? Was it Brian's idea to record an album with Joe Thomas' musicians? Was it Brian's idea to then sue Joe Thomas? Who sequenced BWPS? Brian said on a few occasions it was Darian, but we weren't supposed to know that. Who picked the songs for What I Really Want for Christmas? Whose idea was it to bring in Jeff Beck as a collaborator, the Jeff Beck that Brian barely spoke to? Whose idea was it to bring in Zooey, Lana, and Kasey? Whose idea was it to scold the fans for voicing their opinions on Facebook? And on and on....

Some will say it doesn't matter who came up with the ideas, that the final product is all that matters. Not to repeat but it does matter. It matters when you want the artist to care. And when it's your idea, you have a tendency to care more, to want it to succeed, to put your heart and soul into it, to get more involved in the process. That makes for great art, at least it did for Brian at one time. I'm not insinuating that Brian doesn't care about what he is working on - well, I guess I am to some extent. But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I knew he was the one coming up with the ideas, was fully vested in the process, and was making the final decisions. I'm not sure that he is. And I resent it when people make it appear that he is.

Sheriff;

Thanks for taking the time and responding with this really incisive tour de force on being a BW/BB's fan , and why it matters; especially why it's personal to you, and how this music gives you the feeling of a personal relationship with the artist.  I couldn't agree more on the majority of what you have laid out here; up and including "Love You". It matters ; I mean this isn't QuestionMark and the Mysterians we are talking about here !

I can only talk to things that I was there for ; for example I can talk The Scott Bennrtt sessions, TLOS, BWRG and most of the Disney record; I can't talk to the TWGMTR stuff because I wasn't there , and I only heard two songs, "Shelter" and  "Bill and Sue" on the keyboard. The rest of it I have to rely on my own ears and judgement; the closing suite could only come from Brian Wilson; thats what my ears tell me; my guess is that you can as well, as do many others who share this passion. With Brian all you need to do is listen; the 88 record , for example, with all those screamed lead vocals tells me all I need to know .


A good example of what you are asking about is The Gershwin album.  Was it Brian's idea ? I don't know ; however what I do know is that he had been talking a lot about cutting Rhapsody in Blue , and the next thing I knew I was sitting in the deli with him and he is telling me he was signed to do a Gershwin album so i can connect those dots. i was at the majority of those sessions ; Mark Linett said it was the hardest he had ever seen Brian work, and he absolutely worked his ass off. I talked earlier about how Brian listens to nobody ; a small anecdotal example.  He was cutting the vocal on "Love is Here to Stay" and it was a beautiful take.  I was kind of telling him "Brian you need to double that lead and it will be incredible". He was adamant that no , "it's just right".  And of course he was right , it was.  And I , thankfully , shut the hell up. Another example is "Nothing But Love".  It was initially cut as a ballad ; something about Paris , and it was not up to par.  The next morning , Brian was the first one in the studio, teaching the band essentially an entire rewrite of the song; different tempo , different key. He had consulted with Paul Von Mertens about writing the charts on the overnight for the song , I remember Paul saying to me something to the effect of " you know maybe we're too close, but you forget what a brilliant musician Brian is ". I could say lots more but it's getting late and I type slowly!

On the Illinois house; he never actually moved ; he had a second home there with a studio and then cashiered the house. For the Imagination album I believe he also used the Wondermints , flew them in from LA to record ; ultimately three of the musicians Joe Thomas brought in , Paul , Taylor and Scott ended up in the BW band.

The Christmas record ; Clive Davis and Brian picked the songs.

I can tell you that for the new record , Brian is working really hard; it's what I want to see and hear. He has been at Ocean Way at least 10 times this month on his own , no Joe ; just Brian working with musicians and cutting vocals on his own. He is putting a lot of craft into the making of this record, taking his time, working around the schedules of the young singers he has brought in.  I believe yesterday he was in the studio from 12 noon to 9 pm , working on drums and vocals. There are moments where he and Al are singing together, and when they are swapping leads , that I never thought I would hear again.

So essentially we have a 72 year old Brian Wilson who is not the 24 year old kid who cut Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations and SMiLE.  Who is still there , still working , still trying to be unpredictable after all these years .

I do look forward to your response....Ray

[?]

Who sequenced BWPS? Brian said on a few occasions it was Darian, but we weren't supposed to know that.

Source?

[Jonathan Blum]

How do you know with such certainty that what Ambha said is a paraphrase ? Suppose that was the exact wording ?

Honestly, how many of us would forward one of our business emails on to our kids?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[KittyKat]

Just read a tweet from Stamos that he will be at Jones Beach.   

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

How do you know with such certainty that what Ambha said is a paraphrase ? Suppose that was the exact wording ?

Honestly, how many of us would forward one of our business emails on to our kids?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Not a 5 year old, obviously, but a smart 18 year old who's curious about what's going on with the family business: sure, why not?

[Custom Machine]

Thank you, Ray Lawlor, for participating in this forum, and for providing first person insight into the questions SJStone and many others have wondered about.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Finally , this fiction about "the people around Brian" , the "wifeandmanagers" or as one poster recently put it " Brian brings along a steamboat full of people" ( I am paraphrasing ) ..so I ask again....who are they ? What are their names ? I would like to meet them .  What do they do for Brian ? And Melinda Wilson doesn't count , she is his wife . Jean Sievers doesn't count , she is his manager/publicist.  So someone please inform me who they are . Names please.

Have a great day , Ray

We're not supposed to know. That's the way it works. That's the way they want it. That's their goal. It's called being Brian Wilson. But, since you asked, I would start with Melinda, his manager/publicist, his attorneys, his accountants, his doctors, his collaborators, maybe bandmates, close friends. I apologize for not knowing their names.

And, why doesn't Melinda count just because she's his wife? She's a lot more than that. It's very naive to think otherwise. I'm sure you know, Ray, that a conservator was appointed before Brian married Melinda.

Hi Sheriff ,

I think you have missed one of my points; Melinda and Jean don't count because anyone who reads this board knows who they are and can name check them. Now I am certain Mike has attorneys, accountants, band mates and friends as well , but I have yet to see a post about "the people around Mike".   Or Al.  Or David. It's only mentioned in a quasi derogatory way about Brian.  Yes Melinda does a lot more than just being his wife, everyone knows that. You don't think Jacquie Love is not seriously involved in the business dealings of the touring band with Mike, or MaryAnne Jardine being seriously involved in Al's career ? Or Carrie Marks with David ? That's why I asked for names as I see variations on the same theme with all the guys , but the derogatory terms are only applied to Brian , which to me is disingenuous at best. My point is that there is no group of handlers surrounding Brian ; he listens to his wife , his publicist and that's about it.

I am more than aware of all of the issues involving Brian's conservancy , which was terminated 15 years ago.

Thank you, Ray, for your response. I am going to respond, but if you choose to respond again, and I hope you do, I won't be responding any further. I'm not ignoring your possible future posts, and, I'm certainly not running away from the issues. But, with all respect, I don't want things to escalate which may cause you to leave the board. People want to hear what YOU have to say, not the ramblings of a pompous blowhard like me.

I read an interesting survey/study where it showed that fans prefer an artist's albums of original, self-composed material over an artist's album of cover versions. It didn't say that fans couldn't appreciate an album of covers - hey, good music is good music - just that they on a whole preferred original material. The study went on to say that fans appreciate more when a song originates from the artist; that the idea, the genesis, or the vision of the song comes from the artist's heart and soul if you will.

Being a fan of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys, I can understand that premise. Do you know why I like Brian Wilson's music? Because it sounds great. But do you know why I love it so very much? Because, for lack of a better word, the relationship with the artist. The relationship takes it - the love and appreciation of the music - a step further, to greater heights, to another level of appreciation. It's what being a fan is all about. You read about the artist, you see them on TV, in concert, maybe you meet them for a minute, and you form a bond, an attachment, you're "hooked" if you will. You become a fanatic, a diehard.

So, we love Brian's music not just because of the notes, arrangement, and performance, but because it's Brian's music, and we love Brian the artist. There is a thread going on right now about "Do You Wanna Dance?" If a poll was taken on this board comparing Bobby Freeman's version to the Beach Boys' version, how do you think the results would turn out? Now compare that poll to a national, unbiased poll. Do you think the percentages for the Beach Boys' version would be higher on this board than the national poll? Of course they would. Are those higher percentages based strictly on the musical merits of the song, or are the percentages also influenced by Dennis Wilson's lead vocal - and we like Dennis Wilson. Dennis' vocal might not be any better than Bobby Freeman's, but we like Dennis the Beach Boy, and that's important to us. We have a musical relationship to Dennis, we don't with Bobby Freeman.

Where am I going with all of this? Like I said, a lot of our appreciation of Brian Wilson's music has to do with the music being "created" by him. Brian thought about doing an acoustic album with some background chatter and made The Beach Boys' Party - and we loved it. Brian found an outside lyricist to write more mature lyrics, gathered The Wrecking Crew together, and made Pet Sounds - and we loved it. Brian wanted a stripped, psychedelic doo-wop feel and composed Smiley Smile - and we loved it. Brian wanted to do an album of "homey" songs about the simple joys of life and gave us Friends - and we loved it. A damaged Brian went into the studio with a synthesizer and some songs and blew us away with Love You - and we loved it. We loved the music, yes. But we also appreciated - VERY MUCH - that it was Brian's ideas, Brian's vision, and most of it was Brian's work. I'm getting there, Ray. Bear with me.

Going all the way back to the late 1960's, but especially after Love You in 1976-77, there appears to be a dwindling of all the things I mentioned above related to Brian's ideas, production, and overall contributions to his work. But that's not what bothers me and some long-time diehard fans. It's the failure of some, not only to admit it, but then trying to cover it up to the point of deceiving the fans and general listening public. You know the old saying about it not being the crime that gets people in trouble, but the covering up that follows. And I "get" it, Ray. I understand that Brian is not the same artist as he used to be, and needs help in certain areas to complete his work. I get that. This might shock some but I actually work with people with disabilities for a living. And, on many levels, Brian is to be commended for what he has overcome.

It's just that there seems to be an increasing number or an accumulation of things in Brian's career that makes a fan skeptical. If you have studied Brian Wilson for years, and I've been a fan since 1974, you just can't help but question "was that Brian's idea?", "did he write that?", "does he care about that?", and "if it didn't come from Brian's heart and soul, should I care?". And why do you find yourself asking those questions? Because of the perception of Brian Wilson that we see on stage, see in interviews, read about in books and publications, comments from others like the recent Jeff Beck episode, and from all of the people surrounding Brian who appear to be influencing him. Can you really blame a fan for being cynical and jaded? Like somebody's trying to pull something over on you?

There's so many things that raise a red flag. What really was Russ Titelman's role on BW 1988? Who really wrote "Meet Me In My Dream's Tonight"? Was it Brian's idea to move away from Southern California to Illinois? Was it Brian's idea to record an album with Joe Thomas' musicians? Was it Brian's idea to then sue Joe Thomas? Who sequenced BWPS? Brian said on a few occasions it was Darian, but we weren't supposed to know that. Who picked the songs for What I Really Want for Christmas? Whose idea was it to bring in Jeff Beck as a collaborator, the Jeff Beck that Brian barely spoke to? Whose idea was it to bring in Zooey, Lana, and Kasey? Whose idea was it to scold the fans for voicing their opinions on Facebook? And on and on....

Some will say it doesn't matter who came up with the ideas, that the final product is all that matters. Not to repeat but it does matter. It matters when you want the artist to care. And when it's your idea, you have a tendency to care more, to want it to succeed, to put your heart and soul into it, to get more involved in the process. That makes for great art, at least it did for Brian at one time. I'm not insinuating that Brian doesn't care about what he is working on - well, I guess I am to some extent. But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I knew he was the one coming up with the ideas, was fully vested in the process, and was making the final decisions. I'm not sure that he is. And I resent it when people make it appear that he is.

Sheriff;

Thanks for taking the time and responding with this really incisive tour de force on being a BW/BB's fan , and why it matters; especially why it's personal to you, and how this music gives you the feeling of a personal relationship with the artist.  I couldn't agree more on the majority of what you have laid out here; up and including "Love You". It matters ; I mean this isn't QuestionMark and the Mysterians we are talking about here !

I can only talk to things that I was there for ; for example I can talk The Scott Bennrtt sessions, TLOS, BWRG and most of the Disney record; I can't talk to the TWGMTR stuff because I wasn't there , and I only heard two songs, "Shelter" and  "Bill and Sue" on the keyboard. The rest of it I have to rely on my own ears and judgement; the closing suite could only come from Brian Wilson; thats what my ears tell me; my guess is that you can as well, as do many others who share this passion. With Brian all you need to do is listen; the 88 record , for example, with all those screamed lead vocals tells me all I need to know .


A good example of what you are asking about is The Gershwin album.  Was it Brian's idea ? I don't know ; however what I do know is that he had been talking a lot about cutting Rhapsody in Blue , and the next thing I knew I was sitting in the deli with him and he is telling me he was signed to do a Gershwin album so i can connect those dots. i was at the majority of those sessions ; Mark Linett said it was the hardest he had ever seen Brian work, and he absolutely worked his ass off. I talked earlier about how Brian listens to nobody ; a small anecdotal example.  He was cutting the vocal on "Love is Here to Stay" and  :)it was a beautiful take.  I was kind of telling him "Brian you need to double that lead and it will be incredible". He was adamant that no , "it's just right".  And of course he was right , it was.  And I , thankfully , shut the hell up. Another example is "Nothing But Love".  It was initially cut as a ballad ; something about Paris , and it was not up to par.  The next morning , Brian was the first one in the studio, teaching the band essentially an entire rewrite of the song; different tempo , different key. He had consulted with Paul Von Mertens about writing the charts on the overnight for the song , I remember Paul saying to me something to the effect of " you know maybe we're too close, but you forget what a brilliant musician Brian is ". I could say lots more but it's getting late and I type slowly!

On the Illinois house; he never actually moved ; he had a second home there with a studio and then cashiered the house. For the Imagination album I believe he also used the Wondermints , flew them in from LA to record ; ultimately three of the musicians Joe Thomas brought in , Paul , Taylor and Scott ended up in the BW band.

The Christmas record ; Clive Davis and Brian picked the songs.

I can tell you that for the new record , Brian is working really hard; it's what I want to see and hear. He has been at Ocean Way at least 10 times this month on his own , no Joe ; just Brian working with musicians and cutting vocals on his own. He is putting a lot of craft into the making of this record, taking his time, working around the schedules of the young singers he has brought in.  I believe yesterday he was in the studio from 12 noon to 9 pm , working on drums and vocals. There are moments where he and Al are singing together, and when they are swapping leads , that I never thought I would hear again.

So essentially we have a 72 year old Brian Wilson who is not the 24 year old kid who cut Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations and SMiLE.  Who is still there , still working , still trying to be unpredictable after all these years .

I do look forward to your response....Ray

" There are moments where he and Al are singing together, and when they are swapping leads , that I never thought I would hear again."

OK! Now I'm getting excited! ))

[Alan Smith]

Just read a tweet from Stamos that he will be at Jones Beach.   

Well, he played Bongos on Postcard From California; perhaps that gives him Al proxy status

[Heywood]

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

[JohnMill]

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

I appreciate the post by Ray but...

This forum truly confounds me sometimes.  Lets put some more people down.

[HeyJude]

Just read a tweet from Stamos that he will be at Jones Beach.   

I feel a little better. All is as it should be then. (And no, that isn't meant sarcastically, honestly).

Also meant without sarcasm is the observation that Stamos will probably be more prominently featured at Jones Beach than Al would have had he attended. For that matter, Stamos will probably be more prominent than Johnston or Marks as well.

[baseball95]

Just read a tweet from Stamos that he will be at Jones Beach.   

Great now they'll do Forever except it will be him on lead instead of Dave, maybe they'll throw Dave Getcha Back if he's lucky otherwise I guess him and Bruce will arm wrestle over the lead to Do You Wann Dance before the show.

[Dancing Bear]

If Brian had never written a song in his life he would have been in out of institutions since the late 60s. Probably dead by now.

On the other hand, yes, he has a support system. But Scott would never write a "Midnight's Another Day" on his own or Joe Thomas write the material in TWGMTR on his own.

Was Jeff Beck lying? No, that's what happened that week in the studio. I still think he could kept his thoughts to himself because they didn't do anybody any good.

So that's how I see it from far, far away. What can you do when Brian releases a new album? Add a 5 pages press release where it's explained why he needs a support system and how left on his own we'd never be listening to a new album of his? Too complicated. That's Brian's new CD, end of story.

[Mike's Beard]

That a 72 year old man with well documented mental health issues needs a large support system to help keep his career moving should neither be a source of surprise nor a reason for defensiveness.

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

Yeah let's not let anybody who isn't an insider post on the board, won't that be fun.

[KittyKat]

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

The forum wouldn't exist without the people who are running it,moderating it, and paying for it. Nor would it exist without the people reading it and posting things to fill the pages, not just here and there.