Songs that would have been on SMiLE in '67...

[PhilCohen]

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7251.0.html

That's a good thread.

One thing it doesn't list though is Hokey Pokey from Look. What's with that section? That whole melody, the one that also appears in GV sounds so familiar, any info on it? Any idea why he might have put Hokey Pokey in there with it?

I think you're talking about '12th street rag'.

Yes. And when Brian was questioned about that musical quote at the session, he said that he was going to pay publishing money to use that bit, but of course, on the 2004 version, he omitted that bit altogether.

[buddhahat]

Couldn't the Fire/H&V 'intro' have been the Air segment?  It fits Brian's description of an instrumental; it fits his description of a piano piece; and it's covered in aerophones - whistles, bird calls, organs, etc.

That's an excellent discovery. And the high organ plays the ... I call it religious-sounding background chant-part from "Who Ran The Iron Horse". When that isn't air! Must be. The wind is blowing through the instruments.

Interesting notion. However Brian's description - "a piano piece, an instrumental, no vocals - we never finished that" - doesn't fit in the least beyond it being an instrumental. Does he mention bells, whistles and the like  ?  No, he does not.

Well, OK. Then I nominate "All Day" for air...or "Air Dada"? Wait, perhaps that piano intermezzo during "Wind Chimes"..or maybe the H&V intro nevertheless? Man, SMiLE is so complicated...

What no one ever considers for Air, is the third section of Love To Say Dada. Check out Secret Smile:  I Love To Say Da Da (Part 2 Overdub). After the 2nd section the musicians move into a 3rd piano led piece that quickly breaks down. It sounds similar in style to the chorus of Child, or the fast sections of Look, and Holidays. Admittedly it does break down quickly. I'd pass it off as the musicians just messing around if the piece of music didn't sound so Smile. Maybe it's Brian on the piano and he's just messing around? It sounds like has an intent here though and can be heard saying "Let me go on, let's just ..." before he (I presume it's Brian on piano) launches into this piano part. Who knows, but I'm inclined to believe it's a next section, or coda, to Dada. As such, it could be that Dada at this point was considered it's own song, but there's nothing to say that if Dada was to be part of Elements at this point, that the 3rd section in question isn't Dada shifting into another of the elements - perhaps Air. It certainly fits Brian's description i.e. "a piano piece, an instrumental, no vocals - we never finished that".

though that section he launches into is identical to 'Child Is Father Of The Man (Piano Section Vocal Overdub)' from Secret Smile Disc 1, which does have vocals.

Absolutely - that is the section that it most closely resembles. I find this bit of the Dada sessions fascinating as it hints at the following possibility: That Brian was thinking of having some variation of Child as a Coda to Dada - Something we know he did for Surf's Up. This isn't a totally ridiculous idea when you consider the title "Love To Say Dada" hints at a baby theme, which would tie it in with the subject matter of Child Is Father To The Man. This is why I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Dada is the water element.

Of course, it may be Brian just trying something out that happens to sound like Child, or maybe he as planning to have a section in Dada that sounds similar to Child or even to butcher that bit of Child to use in dada, or even that the section in question is Air that water is transitioning into. Who knows, but that section certainly raises a few questions about the form dada would have taken.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I never thought of the angle of  ILTSDD tied in with CIFOTM, but it makes sense, especially the 'baby, Child' theme that buddha said.
I never really thought it was water, either. I always got the impression that by that point, Brian wasn't thinking in terms of 'Elements' anymore. He was just laying down music to see what clicked with him.

[Jeff]

I never thought of the angle of  ILTSDD tied in with CIFOTM, but it makes sense, especially the 'baby, Child' theme that buddha said.
I never really thought it was water, either. I always got the impression that by that point, Brian wasn't thinking in terms of 'Elements' anymore. He was just laying down music to see what clicked with him.

By the time ILTSDD was recorded (in May '67), Derek Taylor had already issued a press release saying that Smile had been "scrapped."  So I think it's pretty safe to say that The Elements had been abandoned at that point, and that DaDa was something completely different.  I don't know that DaDa can even be considered a Smile recording.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I never thought of the angle of  ILTSDD tied in with CIFOTM, but it makes sense, especially the 'baby, Child' theme that buddha said.
I never really thought it was water, either. I always got the impression that by that point, Brian wasn't thinking in terms of 'Elements' anymore. He was just laying down music to see what clicked with him.

By the time ILTSDD was recorded (in May '67), Derek Taylor had already issued a press release saying that Smile had been "scrapped."  So I think it's pretty safe to say that The Elements had been abandoned at that point, and that DaDa was something completely different.  I don't know that DaDa can even be considered a Smile recording.

Which is he reason I never understood why everyone said it was water. Just because part of it was later featured in a song about water doesn't make it an element. I blame Domenic Priore 

[Jeff]

I never thought of the angle of  ILTSDD tied in with CIFOTM, but it makes sense, especially the 'baby, Child' theme that buddha said.
I never really thought it was water, either. I always got the impression that by that point, Brian wasn't thinking in terms of 'Elements' anymore. He was just laying down music to see what clicked with him.

By the time ILTSDD was recorded (in May '67), Derek Taylor had already issued a press release saying that Smile had been "scrapped."  So I think it's pretty safe to say that The Elements had been abandoned at that point, and that DaDa was something completely different.  I don't know that DaDa can even be considered a Smile recording.

Which is he reason I never understood why everyone said it was water. Just because part of it was later featured in a song about water doesn't make it an element. I blame Domenic Priore 

Yeah, Priore's influence lives on.  He made a number of very definitive statements about track composition, running order, etc. that were actually nothing more than incorrect theories.  But for anyone first reading about the details of Smile, it's impossible to know that he was actually just making up a lot of it.

DaDa is a really good example.  Priore couldn't bring up the Derek Taylor press release, because that would have conflicted with his story about Brian cancelling the album in late May after hearing Sgt Pepper's for the first time.  So he pronounced DaDa to be the water element, the final piece of the Smile puzzle, recorded just before the planned mixdown.  All bs, but he says it with such authority that it's hard not to believe him.