New Beach Boys release will make you 'SMiLE'

[ash]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

[Loaf]

Maybe they can get the guys to kind of polish it up with some overdubs - get Joe Thomas in to slick it up.  Maybe the 50th reunion could be the final recordings to the holy grail of rock!   

them's fightin words   

Joe Thomas....I don't think so. That self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music quickly became viewed(for reasons not entirely clear) by Brian's wife and associates as someone who was taking advantage of Brian.(don't get me wrong: I like the "Imagination" album, as slickly produced as it is.)

I'm a fan of Imagination. I like the easy-listening vibe a lot more than the poorly produced GIOMH or the slightly cluttered TLOS. I like the Pepperish horns on Your Imagination. It's a very catchy album. I wonder if the multitrack masters of Imagination are still in the vaults? Ready for a 2048 50th anniversary celebration.

Anyway, this Smile...what's that all about?

Does anyone reckon any Smiley Smile stuff will show up on the set, or are we talking only up until Brian Scrapped Everything?

[ash]

Thanks for your reply Andrew. That's seriously disappointing though. I was under the impression sony found Cal Girls and let capitol know they had it. I guess this means any missing tapes left at studios have been filed next to the missing Magnificent Ambersons reel. That is a real shame. Is there really no hope ? I'll be very interested to read post release (assuming it happens) where Alan and Mark looked and asked for tapes,acetates etc. I'm sure they will do their best.
If only the inside pop reels could miraculously appear. Oh well. I guess my only realistic hope is for acetates to be handed over for the project. C'mon Bruce - what's on your Heroes acetate ?  Now's the time to spill the beans. We've been crying over spilt milk for too long.
 

[PhilCohen]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

In a search for the missing "Good Vibrations" tapes, it is also important to consider where(at what studio) the single was mixed down.

[PhilCohen]

indeed. I wonder how Mike will feel about giving his opinion knowing that many of the people reading his interview/statement will think he's full of merda.

It's always been stated that Mike Love objected to the "Over and over the crow cry uncovers the cornfield. Over and over, the thresher man covers the wheatfield" lyrics in "Cabinessence", but in 1966, Love did cooperate and sing them. It's Carl's solo parts that weren't recorded until 1968. I wonder if, in reality, it was Carl who was uncooperative at the 1966 vocal sessions for the song. Carl's death, and Mike Love's reluctance to write an autobiography will leave that question unanswered. Love has said that he wanted Van Dyke Parks to explain the lyrics' meaning, and Van Dyke has stated that he couldn't. Parks said "It's an American Gothic trip that Brian & I have been working on. If you don't like the lyrics, then throw them out."

[punkinhead]

Maybe they can get the guys to kind of polish it up with some overdubs - get Joe Thomas in to slick it up.  Maybe the 50th reunion could be the final recordings to the holy grail of rock!   

them's fightin words   

Joe Thomas....I don't think so. That self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music quickly became viewed(for reasons not entirely clear) by Brian's wife and associates as someone who was taking advantage of Brian.(don't get me wrong: I like the "Imagination" album, as slickly produced as it is.)

You sound like you don't wanna offend anybody or that Joe Thomas might read this...I think we're all in the same thought about him and his schemes. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

In a search for the missing "Good Vibrations" tapes, it is also important to consider where(at what studio) the single was mixed down.

Given the vocals were recorded on the 8-track at Columbia, which was the only commercial 8-track in LA at the time, I think your question just answered itself. Also...

"I remember the time we had. It was at Columbia. I remember I had it right in the sack, I could just feel it when I dubbed it down, made the final mix... down to mono"

[punkinhead]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

What California Girls tape are we talking about?

What was on there to be released on the GV box set? the vocals only?

[Bill Ed]

[/quote] Joe Thomas....I don't think so. That self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music quickly became viewed(for reasons not entirely clear) by Brian's wife and associates as someone who was taking advantage of Brian.(don't get me wrong: I like the "Imagination" album, as slickly produced as it is.) [/quote]

Joe Thomas a "self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music"?  I thought it was Brian Wilson's wife who didn't know much at all about the Beach Boys when she met him. When did Thomas say that he was no fan of Brian's music? I thought the inclusion of Keep an Eye on Summer on Imagination was Thomas' idea.  Would a "non-fan" be familiar with this song?

[Andrew G. Doe]

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

What California Girls tape are we talking about?

What was on there to be released on the GV box set? the vocals only?

Yes, the vocal multitracks included on the 5th CD of the 1993 box.

[hypehat]

I think the thing about Joe Thomas not being a fan stems from the O'Hagan interview - IIRC, Sean says to Joe that Brian is a visionary pop artist who pushed forward the entirety of music, or something similarly well-meaning but hyperbolic, and Thomas replies 'Not the Brian Wilson I know.' The implication being that BW is just the guy who wrote Surfin' USA to him.

That Boyd post upthread about empty tape boxes breaks my heart.

[rab2591]

indeed. I wonder how Mike will feel about giving his opinion knowing that many of the people reading his interview/statement will think he's full of merda.

It's always been stated that Mike Love objected to the "Over and over the crow cry uncovers the cornfield. Over and over, the thresher man covers the wheatfield" lyrics in "Cabinessence", but in 1966, Love did cooperate and sing them. It's Carl's solo parts that weren't recorded until 1968. I wonder if, in reality, it was Carl who was uncooperative at the 1966 vocal sessions for the song. Carl's death, and Mike Love's reluctance to write an autobiography will leave that question unanswered. Love has said that he wanted Van Dyke Parks to explain the lyrics' meaning, and Van Dyke has stated that he couldn't. Parks said "It's an American Gothic trip that Brian & I have been working on. If you don't like the lyrics, then throw them out."

When I first heard of SMiLE and read a lot of posts here I disliked Mike for fucking up the project - but then I realized he sang on A LOT of tracks - Bruce Johnston's interview in 'Brian Wilson - Songwriter' starts to put this into perspective. A lot of Beach Boys fans will still think Mike is full of sh*t, no matter what. There are a lot of (mis?)informed people out there.

[Roger Ryan]

Punkinhead - Information regarding the edited/mixed backing track to "The Child Is Father Of The Man" is from memory of having lived through the period and reading message boards like this one. As you can see from the Alan Boyd post that was quoted, Mr. Boyd has contributed a lot of information on-line as well as correcting misconceptions. Around the time of the ENDLESS HARMONY soundtrack release, Mr. Boyd commented that the "Child" backing track had been found (this was considered the most significant SMiLE-related discovery in years) and there was talk about it being included on EH. Later, when asked about unreleased material that might appear on the HAWTHORNE, CA collection, Mr. Boyd commented that "Child" was again under consideration. As Mr. Doe can attest to, the track exists (and may very well have been booted already) and I would be shocked if it didn't make the cut on the proposed SMiLE release.

A couple of other things: the bleed-though heard on the multi-tracks for "The Child Is The Father Of The Man" was simply another layer of chorus vocals, not something significantly different like a lead vocal on the verse or anything. Darian incorporated the bleed-though vocals into the version heard on BWPS.

The clarinet bleed-though was indeed from the "Look" multi-tracks which is where the clarinet line and verse melody came from on "Song For Children".

Finally, BWPS was a Warners release (on their subsidiary Nonesuch), so I doubt the upcoming Capitol release will incorporate any of it apart from acknowledging it in the liner notes.

[rab2591]

Punkinhead - Information regarding the edited/mixed backing track to "The Child Is Father Of The Man" is from memory of having lived through the period and reading message boards like this one. As you can see from the Alan Boyd post that was quoted, Mr. Boyd has contributed a lot of information on-line as well as correcting misconceptions. Around the time of the ENDLESS HARMONY soundtrack release, Mr. Boyd commented that the "Child" backing track had been found (this was considered the most significant SMiLE-related discovery in years) and there was talk about it being included on EH. Later, when asked about unreleased material that might appear on the HAWTHORNE, CA collection, Mr. Boyd commented that "Child" was again under consideration. As Mr. Doe can attest to, the track exists (and may very well have been booted already) and I would be shocked if it didn't make the cut on the proposed SMiLE release.

A couple of other things: the bleed-though heard on the multi-tracks for "The Child Is The Father Of The Man" was simply another layer of chorus vocals, not something significantly different like a lead vocal on the verse or anything. Darian incorporated the bleed-though vocals into the version heard on BWPS.

The clarinet bleed-though was indeed from the "Look" multi-tracks which is where the clarinet line and verse melody came from on "Song For Children".

Finally, BWPS was a Warners release (on their subsidiary Nonesuch), so I doubt the upcoming Capitol release will incorporate any of it apart from acknowledging it in the liner notes.

Pardon me if this has been asked above, but did Darian have access to this unreleased CITFOTM backing track while he was helping assemble SMiLE? And thus, we have probably already heard it (through the Wondermints)?

[rab2591]

Whoops, obviously it's not the same track - BWPS version is no where near 3 minutes long.

[Runaways]

When I first heard of SMiLE and read a lot of posts here I disliked Mike for friggin' up the project - but then I realized he sang on A LOT of tracks - Bruce Johnston's interview in 'Brian Wilson - Songwriter' starts to put this into perspective. A lot of Beach Boys fans will still think Mike is full of merda, no matter what. There are a lot of (mis?)informed people out there.

i think it was more jealousy over brian not using him than the music.

[Roger Ryan]

Pardon me if this has been asked above, but did Darian have access to this unreleased CITFOTM backing track while he was helping assemble SMiLE? And thus, we have probably already heard it (through the Wondermints)?

Good question. I'm certain Darian heard the track, but I'm not certain the '66 mix fit into the live "three movements" idea which was the starting point of BWPS. Even though I haven't heard it, I assume the '66 mix treats the song as its own separate identity, not as a link track. The BWPS version is shorter at 2:17 and we know that Darian (and Brian) specifically reworked the one portion of it to more comfortably lead into "Surf's Up", so I'd say the BWPS version is probably not an exact reproduction of the '66 mix although it may be close.

[guitarfool2002]

A few comments:

Teeter Totter Love could be included because it exists and others have heard it. No matter what the quality may be, after all this time it should be included as a "bonus track" for historical value.

One of the few pieces that hasn't been mentioned is a reel full of "I'm In Great Shape" sessions with Van Dyke, and this session tape was mentioned a few years ago by Alan Boyd himself. It's this kind of session material - un-edited - which is obviously not going to sell to the majority of fans but which fans like me who are into the studio scene would pay very good money for if it were offered for sale or download. Hint, hint.

Some of the sessions released to the general public could also shed some light on how involved Van Dyke was as a musician and not just as a wordsmith in the Tony Asher way.

Des Jones - Wasn't his big Smile coup something reported to be "'Do A Lot' with toothbrushing sound effects" which was on a reel from Columbia or something? There were reels of Columbia Byrds outtakes too, or so someone said there were. But I could be wrong. By the way all of that was on another public board almost 10 years ago, I guess some of the info being discussed never caught up. If it has been ten years since all of that, I wonder if that toothbrushing effects tape will make an appearance?

I dig the typewriters myself, very Ernie Kovacs...

[pobbard]

Not to be a pessimist, but assuming this release even happens at all, I'll bet it's just a repackaging of already-released SMILE-era tracks plus a few alternate mixes and no more than a handful of actual rarities. I'm pretty sure that at this point we've already seen most of the best (most complete and produced) material released.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Pardon me if this has been asked above, but did Darian have access to this unreleased CITFOTM backing track while he was helping assemble SMiLE? And thus, we have probably already heard it (through the Wondermints)?

Good question. I'm certain Darian heard the track, but I'm not certain the '66 mix fit into the live "three movements" idea which was the starting point of BWPS. Even though I haven't heard it, I assume the '66 mix treats the song as its own separate identity, not as a link track. The BWPS version is shorter at 2:17 and we know that Darian (and Brian) specifically reworked the one portion of it to more comfortably lead into "Surf's Up", so I'd say the BWPS version is probably not an exact reproduction of the '66 mix although it may be close.

It's pretty close... but somehow it doesn't quite capture the wistful, yearning quality of the original (and bear in mind that saying this is someone who finds that section of BWPS incredibly moving, and who burst into tears at the premiere at this point).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Teeter Totter Love could be included because it exists and others have heard it. No matter what the quality may be, after all this time it should be included as a "bonus track" for historical value.

I'd be opposed to the inclusion of that for two reasons: one, it's of the era, but nothing to do with Smile whatsoever... and two, Jasper's vocal makes Wild Man Fischer sound like Pavarotti.

Des Jones - Wasn't his big Smile coup something reported to be "'Do A Lot' with toothbrushing sound effects" which was on a reel from Columbia or something? There were reels of Columbia Byrds outtakes too, or so someone said there were. But I could be wrong. By the way all of that was on another public board almost 10 years ago, I guess some of the info being discussed never caught up. If it has been ten years since all of that, I wonder if that toothbrushing effects tape will make an appearance?

As you say, that was a decade ago, and even at the time there were people who had the opinion that DJ was long on talk, short on proof. I could say any number of things concerning Smile material and probably get away with it, but I chose to stick with stuff that can be proven.  Aside from any other consideration, it prevents me looking like an idiot should it be disproven.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not to be a pessimist, but assuming this release even happens at all, I'll bet it's just a repackaging of already-released SMILE-era tracks plus a few alternate mixes and no more than a handful of actual rarities. I'm pretty sure that at this point we've already seen most of the best (most complete and produced) material released.

The great thing about being a pessimist is the not-inconsiderable pleasure you experience on being proven wrong. 

[guitarfool2002]

Teeter Totter Love could be included because it exists and others have heard it. No matter what the quality may be, after all this time it should be included as a "bonus track" for historical value.

I'd be opposed to the inclusion of that for two reasons: one, it's of the era, but nothing to do with Smile whatsoever... and two, Jasper's vocal makes Wild Man Fischer sound like Pavarotti.

Des Jones - Wasn't his big Smile coup something reported to be "'Do A Lot' with toothbrushing sound effects" which was on a reel from Columbia or something? There were reels of Columbia Byrds outtakes too, or so someone said there were. But I could be wrong. By the way all of that was on another public board almost 10 years ago, I guess some of the info being discussed never caught up. If it has been ten years since all of that, I wonder if that toothbrushing effects tape will make an appearance?

As you say, that was a decade ago, and even at the time there were people who had the opinion that DJ was long on talk, short on proof. I could say any number of things concerning Smile material and probably get away with it, but I chose to stick with stuff that can be proven.  Aside from any other consideration, it prevents me looking like an idiot should it be disproven.  

I think Teeter Totter would be a neat thing for the curious to check out - anybody who has a copy of LLVS has the session photos, the session logs, the session sheets, etc but not the actual audio. Let it all hang out, I say, even if the vocal isn't very good. Add to that Denny's instrumental piece too, again documented/photographed but never heard. Bonus track material, for sure.

I understand sensitivities and privacy and all of that, but things like the "Des Jones" reels of tape, and concealing the identity of the keeper of the Inside Pop film footage...it leads to wild speculation, but obviously reasons of safety and privacy take over as well and some of those collectors don't want their information published. If they truly have the goods in their collections. In Des Jones' case, was it a put-on after all? Or do such tapes really exist?

Add to the wishlist the Jasper D. studio photos that never saw the release they were promised to buyers of the "portfolios". I'd *love* to see them as part of a Smile archive release.

For those listening: Please release the Jasper Smile photos.

[Bicyclerider]

There must be the one or other unbooted gem in the vaults. Surprising really that nothing from the session with Paul McCartney turned up yet. At least a bit of studio chatter. Or was nothing recorded?
Or the 1967 remake of "False Barnyard", when Carl sang live with the Wrecking Crew. All that is available is the talking between takes.
And perhaps there was more work done after the SMiLE sessions than it's believed. After all, a SMiLE song or segment found it's way on every BB record 'til the announcement of a release in 1972. That was the real end. And didn't Bruce work on "Do You Like Worms?" in the late 70's?

When was this and what's your source?
not saying you don't know what you're talkin about, i just wanna read about it.


and btw, why was it ever given the name False Barnyard?

False Barnyard came about because the tag to the cantina version of Heroes came out on a bootleg Smile LP and was falsely labelled Barnyard, because - well, it sounded like it could have been Barnyard.  Turns out the real Barnyard was later found and booted, so the original "Barnyard" became false Barnyard.  Ironically, the "false Barnyard" tag was included in Heroes while the "true Barnyard" was cut - probably to go into I'm In Great Shape, but that's another story.

I've heard the Carl live vocal rerecord of the "false Barnyard" tag, so it definitely exists.  As does the 3 minute Child.  The last was booted on Goodbye Surfing I believe (in poor quality), and I thought the Carl false Barnyard was on Secret Smile, although I may be wrong on that.