need help with Pink Floyd

[punkinhead]

I was thinking about the inner politics of Floyd and what's all included on the Echoes compilation; I find it strange that The Final Cut and AMLOR material are both included on compilation, but material for More and Obscured by Clouds are not included, I only say this because a lot of the material from More has popped up on later compilations like Relics, Works, etc, plus, I'm sure a couple of shorter length tracks were idea next to Shine on, Echoes, etc. I understand how Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother's material not included because of lengthy and lesser known tracks. But with inner struggles with the group and how fans feel about TFC and AMLOR as Floyd albums, it puzzles me for their inclusion of songs. Though now that I think about it, I think TFC's inclusion is notable for being somewhat (what was intended but didn't happen) as outtakes of The Wall. And of course, if TFC has tracks, of course Gilmour wants Learning to Fly and Sorrow on there.

[Jason]

The Floyd have been trying very hard to rewrite history...it's almost like they want to have the image that their career began with their "first album" The Dark Side of the Moon, which was an utter fluke of success...it certainly looks cooler than the band that had an initial period of notoriety and then spent five years going "through the desert" so to speak.

[Mike's Beard]

Not so sure about that. "One of these Days" rarely left their setlist for example. Maybe the record company prefers to focus on "Dark Side" onwards more as this is when the Floyd sound seemed to solidify. Also "Obscured By Clouds" is Nick Mason's favourite Pink Floyd album.

[Jason]

The Dark Side of the Moon is indeed all well and good, and no fan would ever try to deny that. But it was not something that came from pure coincidence. It was the natural evolution of their sound from psych-pop genius under Syd to the rambling, at times incoherent and soothing sounds of Saucerful through Ummagumma, the orchestral and folkish tendencies of Atom Heart Mother, and the prog sound on Meddle and Obscured by Clouds. Dark Side is the culmination of the past seven years of their work as a band.

[Dead Parrot]

The Floyd have been trying very hard to rewrite history...it's almost like they want to have the image that their career began with their "first album" The Dark Side of the Moon, which was an utter fluke of success...it certainly looks cooler than the band that had an initial period of notoriety and then spent five years going "through the desert" so to speak.

I don't know about that. They seem perfectly happy to talk about their pre Dark Side career. In a recent interview Nick Mason talked about listening to demos the bank recorded in the mid 60's, and how well developed Syd Barrett's songwriting was even at that point.
David Gilmour played a pretty important role in the recent Syd Barrett compilation, which included a number of Pink Floyd tracks he doesn't even play on. And the band would be the first to admit that (and indeed David Gilmour has on a number of occasions) their last 60's/early 70's material was a natural evolution of the bands sound and dynamic which led eventually to Dark Side. I think Gilmour has talked about the track "Echoes" being the point where the post Syd Pink Floyd found their sound.

[Dead Parrot]

I understand how Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother's material not included because of lengthy and lesser known tracks.

David Gilmour wanted "Fat Old Sun" included on the compilation (and quite rightly too, it's one of his best songs) but nobody else in the band did. Apparently despite the less than favourable opinion that the members of Pink Floyd not called Roger Waters have of The Final Cut, "The Fletcher Memorial Home" was, according to Gilmour, one of the few songs they all agreed on to be included.

[punkinhead]

I understand how Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother's material not included because of lengthy and lesser known tracks.

David Gilmour wanted "Fat Old Sun" included on the compilation (and quite rightly too, it's one of his best songs) but nobody else in the band did. Apparently despite the less than favourable opinion that the members of Pink Floyd not called Roger Waters have of The Final Cut, "The Fletcher Memorial Home" was, according to Gilmour, one of the few songs they all agreed on to be included.

Wow, I just listened to Fat Old Sun a lot, along with If and Summer 68, and you're right about it being one of Gilmour's best. I've listened to Atom Heart Mother a couple of times (being a newer PF fan) and this time around was fantastic. My family has been going through some junk and I wasn't able to sleep very well last night, but listened to Fat Old Sun really made me feel better, I don't know what it is about it, but it has a great vibe to it...kinda white album-ish....as is Summer 68 (especially those horns like on Savory Truffle and Mother Nature's Son)

[Roger Ryan]

You should hear the live version of "Fat Old Sun" Gilmour did on his REMEMBER THAT NIGHT DVD...I nearly cried it was so beautiful.

[Jason]

You should hear the live version of "Fat Old Sun" Gilmour did on his REMEMBER THAT NIGHT DVD...I nearly cried it was so beautiful.

That DVD in general is beautiful. One of the best purchases I ever made.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The Dark Side of the Moon is indeed all well and good, and no fan would ever try to deny that. But it was not something that came from pure coincidence. It was the natural evolution of their sound from psych-pop genius under Syd to the rambling, at times incoherent and soothing sounds of Saucerful through Ummagumma, the orchestral and folkish tendencies of Atom Heart Mother, and the prog sound on Meddle and Obscured by Clouds. Dark Side is the culmination of the past seven years of their work as a band.

The Floyd seem weirdly half embarrassed by anything they've done that wasn't overtly commercially successful! This trait probably got them where they are, so it's a good thing really.

Typical for a bunch of architects to look at well selling product as an example of perfect craftsmanship and anything less successful as a bad floor plan   

[punkinhead]

The Dark Side of the Moon is indeed all well and good, and no fan would ever try to deny that. But it was not something that came from pure coincidence. It was the natural evolution of their sound from psych-pop genius under Syd to the rambling, at times incoherent and soothing sounds of Saucerful through Ummagumma, the orchestral and folkish tendencies of Atom Heart Mother, and the prog sound on Meddle and Obscured by Clouds. Dark Side is the culmination of the past seven years of their work as a band.

The Floyd seem weirdly half embarrassed by anything they've done that wasn't overtly commercially successful! This trait probably got them where they are, so it's a good thing really.

Typical for a bunch of architects to look at well selling product as an example of perfect craftsmanship and anything less successful as a bad floor plan   

What do you consider "overtly commercially successful"? I feel like a lot of the experimental material that one (like myself) who didn't grow up back when this material originally released would assume it didn't do well on the charts but actually (as I was shocked and surprised) they did fairly well:
-Piper at the Gates: #6 on UK chart
-A Sucerful of Secrets: #9 on UK chart
-More: #9 on UK chart
-Ummagumma: #5 on UK/#74 on US
-Atom Heart Mother: #1 on UK/#55 on US
-Relics: #32 on UK
-Meddle: #3 on UK/#70 on US
The difference on UK and US charts just shows how much more hip the UK is when it comes to listening to good music.

What I consider as "Floyd's embarrassment" (from what I've read online and a book), they consider Ummaguma and/or Atom Heart Mother and/or Saucerful of Secrets to be lame or not relevant to their career as a band; as if the album covers are more famous than the music inside of the LP.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And what's funny about that is Ummagumma and Saucerful are two of my favorite albums.

My favorite album for the record is Dark Side (followed by Meddle). I know there's a segment of fans that don't feel that way because it is their most popular, but there's a REASON why it's their most popular. It's damn phucking good.

[Jay]

For a very long time I considered Dark Side to be the best album ever recorded in the history of rock and roll. But then I heard the SMiLE boots, and Pet Sounds. I would say that even Bambu is very high in my list of top ten best albums ever recorded.

[Dead Parrot]

It's actually quite interesting to put together an alternate version of A Saucerful of Secrets which is made up of the songs that were either written by, or played on by Syd Barrett. It makes for a very different, but nontheless very good album. My most recent attempt goes something like this. Bearing in mind that some of this stuff was never completed in a releasable form. It's just songs that date from the post Piper recording sessions (apart from She Was A Millionaire).

1. Vegetable Man
2. Remember A Day
3. Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun
4. Scream Thy Last Scream
5. In The Beechwoods
6. Paintbox
7. Apples & Oranges
8. No Title
9. She Was A Millionaire
10. Reaction In G
11. Jugband Blues

[pixletwin]

nice play list, but what is No Title?

[Dead Parrot]

nice play list, but what is No Title?

It's a 4 minute track recorded in September 1967. About 90 seconds of the track has leaked out, and is usually wrongly listed as "Sunshine" on bootlegs.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

By overtly commercial, I meant the obviously earth shatteringly successful billion trillion selling triage of Dark Side/Wish/Wall!!!

An yeah, it's awesome that the Floyd are that example of the super commercial stuff being so FREAKING good!!!

I know Dave's called Atom Heart Mother "rubbish" in the past, but they seem to be easing up in their old age.... Didn't Dave even perform AHM (side one) in it's entirety recently or am I imagining things?

Actually that last tour with Dave and Rick did a lot toward waking people up to a lot of the pre-Darkside awesomeness!

The did Wots Uh The Deal and Echos with Rick kicking massive ass on both!!!!

Now if Nick would just go perform Grand Vizer's Garden Party someplace, I could die happy

[pixletwin]

nice play list, but what is No Title?

It's a 4 minute track recorded in September 1967. About 90 seconds of the track has leaked out, and is usually wrongly listed as "Sunshine" on bootlegs.

Oh ok thanks. I do have it listed as Sunshine. 

[Alex]

I`m guessing Bob Klose won`t be returning to the Floyd anytime soon.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

?!

[Jay]

Bob Klose was the original lead guitar player. Syd Barrett was actually a rhythm guitar player until Bob Klose quit in 1965.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I knew THAT ...just wondering why his name was brought up, since it's not like he's been in the news or anything. It was just so *random* that I hurried up and checked to see if he had recently died. It'd be like, "Oh, I guess Chris Dreja isn't going to rejoin a reformed Led Zeppelin  (since he was in the Yardbirds and was tentatively going to be in Page's new band until John Paul Jones was tagged)".

[Jay]

It was probably one of those random things disigned for obsessive weirdos like us to pick up on, while many people here wouldn't know who Alex was talking about. 

[Alex]

Klose was the Dave Marks of Floyd...can`t have a true reunion without every single living original member.

[pixletwin]

Klose was the Dave Marks of Floyd...can`t have a true reunion without every single living original member.

Except David Marks played on many of the early hits. Bob Close wasn't anywhere near the sessions for PF's early recordings.