Another Brian And Landy Question

[The Heartical Don]

I saw BW just before New Year`s of 1983. He was expected to die in the first 6 months of 1983, had Landy not intervened....

...which is the double-bind that makes it impossible to construct a clean story that fits our desires (a not uncommon script in real drama). We all have some desire to think that:

a. Landy did not save Brian's life, exaggerated everything, and thus did no good at all; or:
b. Landy did indeed save Brian's life, and thus everything that happened after 1985 or thereabouts would not have happened at all without the psychologist's intervention. Which means that we do have to thank the oft vilified doctor for something very, very meaningful to us.

The only additional and important thing I can think of is that according to AGD, Brian had a very good rapport with another therapist, who unfortunately died in a mountaineering accident (hope I remember this right).


Life is anything but simple and straighforward.

Yes, Landy did overstay his welcome by many years. But one thing that I almost never read about is, had Landy left the picture at around 1984-85, Brian most probably would have slid back down again, as he did in 1977/78. Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

Agree. Brian would have been 42 by then, i.e. young enough to undergo a profound relapse into all bad habits. The older people get, the less they are inclined to make deep dives into all kinds of bad habits. But just over 40 can still be a tricky age for an addict who's just cleaned up.

[letsmakeit31]

Fact: having saved Brian's life, he then proceeded to use his charge as a pass key for his showbiz fantasies...

Was there much sign of this kind of agenda in the first Landy era?

Of course it is all conjecture at this point, but is interesting to consider how the situation became what it was in the end...at what point did Landy start abusing his position...was this his intention all along/was he overcome by temptation etc...

Another point that I am sure has been raised before...did Landy ever show remorse? When confronted by Diane Sawyer his reaction is fascinating to say the least.

Oh, God bless Diane Sawyer !  That interview should be required viewing for all the Landy apologists: she asks all the questions we fans wanted to ask... and he just does not have an answer - literally struck dumb. It's on YouTube. Go, now, and watch.

YES we should all be thankful to Diane Sawyer and here it is!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vhRkfFgj8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9C_lKYhWr4
I can't believe it was oct 91!!! I thought it was eariler than that 89, 90??

[Chris Brown]

Fact: having saved Brian's life, he then proceeded to use his charge as a pass key for his showbiz fantasies...

Was there much sign of this kind of agenda in the first Landy era?

Of course it is all conjecture at this point, but is interesting to consider how the situation became what it was in the end...at what point did Landy start abusing his position...was this his intention all along/was he overcome by temptation etc...

Another point that I am sure has been raised before...did Landy ever show remorse? When confronted by Diane Sawyer his reaction is fascinating to say the least.

Oh, God bless Diane Sawyer !  That interview should be required viewing for all the Landy apologists: she asks all the questions we fans wanted to ask... and he just does not have an answer - literally struck dumb. It's on YouTube. Go, now, and watch.

YES we should all be thankful to Diane Sawyer and here it is!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vhRkfFgj8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9C_lKYhWr4
I can't believe it was oct 91!!! I thought it was eariler than that 89, 90??

Watching Brian and Landy in those clips is so unsettling.  I don't think I've ever been so uncomfortable watching Brian be interviewed, and Landy's smug attitude makes you want to punch him in the face.

[letsmakeit31]

I argee with Jay the whole Landy era is a two edged sword but Another question is when was Brian finally freed from Landy and what was his reaction too I'm only asking this because Brian has said that Landy is my best friend?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I argee with Jay the whole Landy era is a two edged sword but Another question is when was Brian finally freed from Landy and what was his reaction too I'm only asking this because Brian has said that Landy is my best friend?

It's been reliably reported that Brian's very first action was to phone Andy Paley and tell him "I can do what I want now, let's make some music."

And they did. 

[letsmakeit31]

I argee with Jay the whole Landy era is a two edged sword but Another question is when was Brian finally freed from Landy and what was his reaction too I'm only asking this because Brian has said that Landy is my best friend?

It's been reliably reported that Brian's very first action was to phone Andy Paley and tell him "I can do what I want now, let's make some music."

And they did. 

Great stuff!! Brian is born to create beautiful music for us all and himself to enjoy

[dennyschild]

Fact: having saved Brian's life, he then proceeded to use his charge as a pass key for his showbiz fantasies...

Was there much sign of this kind of agenda in the first Landy era?

Of course it is all conjecture at this point, but is interesting to consider how the situation became what it was in the end...at what point did Landy start abusing his position...was this his intention all along/was he overcome by temptation etc...

Another point that I am sure has been raised before...did Landy ever show remorse? When confronted by Diane Sawyer his reaction is fascinating to say the least.

Oh, God bless Diane Sawyer !  That interview should be required viewing for all the Landy apologists: she asks all the questions we fans wanted to ask... and he just does not have an answer - literally struck dumb. It's on YouTube. Go, now, and watch.

YES we should all be thankful to Diane Sawyer and here it is!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vhRkfFgj8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9C_lKYhWr4
I can't believe it was oct 91!!! I thought it was eariler than that 89, 90??

Watching Brian and Landy in those clips is so unsettling.  I don't think I've ever been so uncomfortable watching Brian be interviewed, and Landy's smug attitude makes you want to punch him in the face.

Watching Brian and Landy in those clips is so unsettling.  I don't think I've ever been so uncomfortable watching Brian be interviewed, and Landy's smug attitude makes you want to punch him in the face.

You got that right.. .  Slap that smug attitude off his face.

[Jay]

I saw BW just before New Year`s of 1983. He was expected to die in the first 6 months of 1983, had Landy not intervened....

...which is the double-bind that makes it impossible to construct a clean story that fits our desires (a not uncommon script in real drama). We all have some desire to think that:

a. Landy did not save Brian's life, exaggerated everything, and thus did no good at all; or:
b. Landy did indeed save Brian's life, and thus everything that happened after 1985 or thereabouts would not have happened at all without the psychologist's intervention. Which means that we do have to thank the oft vilified doctor for something very, very meaningful to us.

The only additional and important thing I can think of is that according to AGD, Brian had a very good rapport with another therapist, who unfortunately died in a mountaineering accident (hope I remember this right).


Life is anything but simple and straighforward.

Yes, Landy did overstay his welcome by many years. But one thing that I almost never read about is, had Landy left the picture at around 1984-85, Brian most probably would have slid back down again, as he did in 1977/78. Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

Agree. Brian would have been 42 by then, i.e. young enough to undergo a profound relapse into all bad habits. The older people get, the less they are inclined to make deep dives into all kinds of bad habits. But just over 40 can still be a tricky age for an addict who's just cleaned up.

Brian needed "tough love", in that he needed somebody to watch over him for a few years. Here is where the moral dilemma lies. The group obviously couldn't have let Brian leave Landy/treatment  when he wasn't ready. But Landy was the only person who made any progress. The group knew this, but also knew that Landy was a very suspicious charactor. The way I see it, it was a lose/lose situation.

[MBE]

The thing we have to remember is that Brian in 1975 was in bad shape but not nearly as bad as he got by 1982. In fact I think had Brian gotten proper help in 1975, he may have really had a degree of normalicy he can't have now because of the extra brain and neurological damage. Don't get me wrong Brian has done some really fine work over the last ten years, but he hasn't been quite the same since 1982 because of the sluring and general lack of engagment. He's very nice and still capable of some very good music but something was lost when Landy was hired the second time. Hell maybe something was lost when he was hired the first time. As bad as Brian was from say 1973-75 he was far worse from 1978-82.

[The Heartical Don]

The thing we have to remember is that Brian in 1975 was in bad shape but not nearly as bad as he got by 1982. In fact I think had Brian gotten proper help in 1975, he may have really had a degree of normalicy he can't have now because of the extra brain and neurological damage. Don't get me wrong Brian has done some really fine work over the last ten years, but he hasn't been quite the same since 1982 because of the sluring and general lack of engagment. He's very nice and still capable of some very good music but something was lost when Landy was hired the second time. Hell maybe something was lost when he was hired the first time. As bad as Brian was from say 1973-75 he was far worse from 1978-82.

True dat. I guess that, in the end, Brian's persisting problems stem from Landy's terrible overmedication, as well as his superhuman drug and drink ingestion prior to the Landy treatment. There is a certain bias among fans to ascribe all bad neurological effects to the overmedication, but if most descriptions about Bri's booze and cocaine use are right on the money, then I dare say that those addictions destroyed many, many brain cells, and/or proper connections between cells.


Heck, young people who develop a habit of binge drinking in weekends and combine that with the use of a party drug like XTC may have permanent damage by their mid-twenties - and they then will have used probably 2%  of bad stuff compared to what Brian did.

[Myk Luhv]

If Landy was around circa 1975-76, did he have any involvement in Love You? If so, was it just to get him in order to make such an album or did he also do his woefully unethical thing where he got involved in the creative processes too (or did that kind of stuff only happen later on in nineties)?

[letsmakeit31]

If Landy was around circa 1975-76, did he have any involvement in Love You? If so, was it just to get him in order to make such an album or did he also do his woefully unethical thing where he got involved in the creative processes too (or did that kind of stuff only happen later on in nineties)?

Don't know if Landy had a hand in Love You but maybe helped Johnny Carson??. Because I remember reading how Landy got Brian to write songs about everything from brushing his teeth to watching his fav tv show Johnny Carson. I could be wrong mind.
Wasn't Landy abusing Brian and The Beach Boys name from the very start after 1983 with co-writing credits etc?.

[adamghost]

If Landy was around circa 1975-76, did he have any involvement in Love You? If so, was it just to get him in order to make such an album or did he also do his woefully unethical thing where he got involved in the creative processes too (or did that kind of stuff only happen later on in nineties)?

Brian claimed in his autobiography (said to have been written with more of Landy's input than Brian's) that Landy helped write some of the songs on LOVE YOU.  You can easily suggest that it's a self-serving statement inserted by Landy (and it is) but that doesn't mean it isn't true.  I actually find that particular claim fairly credible given the lyric content on that record, and the fact that Brian works without a collaborator on most tracks, which is unusual.

I'm one who believes there's insight to be found in Brian's book if you look at it in context and take it with an enormous grain of salt.  Some of Brian's comments about his relationship with Carl in the late '80s, for example, are enlightening.

[Jay]

If Landy was around circa 1975-76, did he have any involvement in Love You? If so, was it just to get him in order to make such an album or did he also do his woefully unethical thing where he got involved in the creative processes too (or did that kind of stuff only happen later on in nineties)?

Brian claimed in his autobiography (said to have been written with more of Landy's input than Brian's) that Landy helped write some of the songs on LOVE YOU.  You can easily suggest that it's a self-serving statement inserted by Landy (and it is) but that doesn't mean it isn't true.  I actually find that particular claim fairly credible given the lyric content on that record, and the fact that Brian works without a collaborator on most tracks, which is unusual.

I'm one who believes there's insight to be found in Brian's book if you look at it in context and take it with an enormous grain of salt.  Some of Brian's comments about his relationship with Carl in the late '80s, for example, are enlightening.

I wonder if Brian really blamed Carl for Dennis's death? I know that he probably doesn't REALLY believe it, but I wonder if it's a thought that goes through his mind once in a while. Of course, if you're going to blame Carl, then you have to blame everybody...including Brian himself.