Tracklist sequencing

[punkinhead]

Do you think Brian really paid attention to every little detail when it comes down to which track came when?
I do believe he sequence Today!, Summer Days, and Pet Sounds in his own way...which works out great.
and of course Smile's sequence is an obvious detail he paid great attention to.
I was thinking perhaps the last 3 songs on Surf's Up, it's like they were saving the best for last (Brian's gems)
Of course there's little things like the quiet ending of Wind Chimes on Smiley then the LOUD Gettin' Hungry organ in your ears, as some have said is Brian's sense of humor.

But do you think any other BB/BW album had as much attention to sequence?

How would you sequence the albums to make them sound more perfect? Or to get a concept across?

[Dunderhead]

I think the sequencing on Surf's Up was Carl not Brian.

[punkinhead]

there's something about So Tough that I wanna rearrange, but I can't put my finger on it.
It's like if I put all of Blondie/Ricky's stuff on one side of the record with Denny's stuff, there's too much slow songs and not enough Beach Boy-like material. I guess they did try to spread it out as much as possible. Maybe it's the fact that it's only 8 songs, not as easy as per-say sequencing 20/20.

[punkinhead]

I think the sequencing on Surf's Up was Carl not Brian.

right right.

That's what I wanted to imply through "they saved the best for last."  As with any of the albums post Smiley through Holland...or at least the albums Brian had little to do with.

[Dunderhead]

Has anybody taken the time to look at the keys of all the songs on the albums Brian was mostly in charge of (Pet Sounds and Friends in particular). I'm curious to know if there is a structure there in the sequencing like composers used to do in the great song cycles.

[Ebb and Flow]

The Kid/Adult side dynamic of both Today! and the Christmas Album are two of the more direct examples of Brian's involvement in sequencing.

But I've never fully bought that the Pet Sounds sequencing was intended to be a concrete thematic statement, or at least one that Brian was totally involved in.  All of the initial singles chosen from the album start and end both sides of the LP, which seems more like the work of an A&R man.

[punkinhead]

There's something I've always wanted to do, it's just a little edit, nothing to change a whole album...but I'd love if Ding Dang followed Love is a Woman at the end of the album...there's just an irony of singing a positive song about how great the love of a woman is...and then Brian sneaks something at the end just for kicks, "...I loved her so madly, I treat her so fine, she treats me so badly...." 

[Dunderhead]

There's something I've always wanted to do, it's just a little edit, nothing to change a whole album...but I'd love if Ding Dang followed Love is a Woman at the end of the album...there's just an irony of singing a positive song about how great the love of a woman is...and then Brian sneaks something at the end just for kicks, "...I loved her so madly, I treat her so fine, she treats me so badly...." 

It's funny you should say that, I've often thought Ding Dang should have been a hidden track at the end of Love You.

[The Shift]

I think the sequencing on Surf's Up was Carl not Brian.

right right.

That's what I wanted to imply through "they saved the best for last."  As with any of the albums post Smiley through Holland...or at least the albums Brian had little to do with.

"Best 'til last" also applies to 20/20 (Prayer & Cabinessence) and Sunflower (Cool Cool Water).

[Dunderhead]

Does anybody know exactly why SMiLE tracks were dug up for 20/20? Brian gives a really bizarre statement in the liner notes of the Friends/20/20 twofer where he makes it sound like CE was done specifically for 20/20 (he also keeps calling it a waltz for some reason). I always got the impression that Carl and Jack Rieley resurrected Surf's Up for a planned release of the album, however there doesn't seem to be any such obvious reason for the inclusion of CE on 20/20.

[Roger Ryan]

Does anybody know exactly why SMiLE tracks were dug up for 20/20? Brian gives a really bizarre statement in the liner notes of the Friends/20/20 twofer where he makes it sound like CE was done specifically for 20/20 (he also keeps calling it a waltz for some reason).

Isn't at least part of "Cabin Essence" in waltz time, like the coda? Perhaps one of our more musical posters can comment. Regarding the two-fer liner notes: it was far easier for Brian to describe 20/20 (an album he had little to do with) as a collection of songs recorded specifically for it than to get into the whole "I recorded 'Cabin Essence' for the abandoned SMiLE and the other guys put it on this album against my wishes" approach. While the truth is more interesting, Brian's revisionist take keeps things clean-and-neat and makes it look like he was still in charge.

[filledeplage]

Does anybody know exactly why SMiLE tracks were dug up for 20/20? Brian gives a really bizarre statement in the liner notes of the Friends/20/20 twofer where he makes it sound like CE was done specifically for 20/20 (he also keeps calling it a waltz for some reason). I always got the impression that Carl and Jack Rieley resurrected Surf's Up for a planned release of the album, however there doesn't seem to be any such obvious reason for the inclusion of CE on 20/20.

This is a great thread!  I have always wondered about the "sequencing" of the music.   It was always my impression that the goal of music sequence was that it "wove" pretty much "seamlessly" on an LP, which must have been the consideration in the process.  It seems less important, now. 

Is is possible that the amount of recording and "version" variation, for SMiLE was so extensive that it would not have "fit" on one LP, which was usually about 30 minutes in length? And, that it might have had to have been a double album? 

Just wondering...        

[Roger Ryan]

You can/could fit close to 50 minutes on a vinyl album and Dylan, for one, did fill it close to 50 minutes several times. That said, SMiLE's 12 tracks would have probably hit around 40 minutes. Of all the Beach Boys albums, SMiLE would have been the one that Brian would have had the most interest in sequencing as the concept of album-oriented productions were just starting to take off and Brian would have known it. After he abandoned SMiLE, he may have lost interest in sequencing at the same time he lost interest in overseeing the production of an entire album.

[filledeplage]

You can/could fit close to 50 minutes on a vinyl album and Dylan, for one, did fill it close to 50 minutes several times. That said, SMiLE's 12 tracks would have probably hit around 40 minutes. Of all the Beach Boys albums, SMiLE would have been the one that Brian would have had the most interest in sequencing as the concept of album-oriented productions were just starting to take off and Brian would have known it. After he abandoned SMiLE, he may have lost interest in sequencing at the same time he lost interest in overseeing the production of an entire album.

50 minutes!  Wow! I did not know that it was possible... Dylan was a conservationist!

I was thinking more of having more of the tracks from SMiLE, whether the "cantina" version of Heroes and Villains, or, other tracks which have appeared elsewhere.  CD's usually hold about 75 minutes which would fit two "average" length LP's from "back in the day."

Thanks for that info! 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I always thought that It's About Time would've made a better opener on Sunflower than SOT. I believe the most important thing is to have an opener with a good intro. The closer should be the best artistic statement. DGNTW is a good opener for SU. The extended Til I Die could've also been a great opener or closer to an album. CS: Big Sur would've made a nice opener to Holland, though SoS does the job as well. Friends LP starts out great, but TM is not a good song to close with. Something like Old Man River, or A Time to Live Again would've been a better closer I think. Or even You're Welcome.

[Stephen Newcombe]

The sequence on Surfer Girl is quite simple -

Slow song, fast song.

He does the same with Pet Sounds. This is not accidental. Remember he was primarily a musician not a lyricist, so I think sequencing choices would have been more musical than lyrical.

Also remember that Pet Sounds helped define the album as an art form, and not a vehicle for singles and filler. So that makes albums like Today, which has a clear idea behind the sequencing, very ahead of it's time.

[punkinhead]

I always thought that It's About Time would've made a better opener on Sunflower than SOT. I believe the most important thing is to have an opener with a good intro. The closer should be the best artistic statement. DGNTW is a good opener for SU. The extended Til I Die could've also been a great opener or closer to an album. CS: Big Sur would've made a nice opener to Holland, though SoS does the job as well. Friends LP starts out great, but TM is not a good song to close with. Something like Old Man River, or A Time to Live Again would've been a better closer I think. Or even You're Welcome.

I've always been a firm believer in Friends ending with We're Together Again...very appropriate.

[punkinhead]

I always thought that It's About Time would've made a better opener on Sunflower than SOT. I believe the most important thing is to have an opener with a good intro. The closer should be the best artistic statement. DGNTW is a good opener for SU. The extended Til I Die could've also been a great opener or closer to an album. CS: Big Sur would've made a nice opener to Holland, though SoS does the job as well. Friends LP starts out great, but TM is not a good song to close with. Something like Old Man River, or A Time to Live Again would've been a better closer I think. Or even You're Welcome.

I've always been a firm believer in Friends ending with We're Together Again...very appropriate.

Perhaps Brian just wanted to end with a jam.
The white album is a pretty good mix of peaceful songs like the Friends album but also has its fair share of jams.
perhaps we just didn't hear Brian as a 'jam type' of writer.