Sagittarius and Smile

[cutterschoice]

Does anyone have any details on Sagittarius, mainly the story that Gary Usher borrowed from Brian and this upset him?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs-oGEhDP0E)

I can't find anything to confirm Brian's reaction.

[roll plymouth rock]

Apparently he freaked out after hearing their 45 'My World Fell Down' as he felt some of the fragments were a little too reminiscent of his Smile material. This is because he learned they were listening to Smile recordings at one of the studios he was using, which some say led Brian to start recording at home? Also of note -- Bruce Johnston sings bgvs on My World Fell Down.

[Mr. Cohen]

Yeah, another song Gary Usher did for Sagittarius, "Hotel Indiscreet", had a bridge that featured a comedy bit performed by The Firesign Theatre. Clearly, Gary had heard some SMiLE acetates or something. There's just too many coincidences. It makes you wonder what exactly he heard.

If you listen to the single version of "Hotel Indiscreet" on this page, you can hear most of the comedy bit: http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000003H1D/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_017/175-8250175-1324615?ie=UTF8&track=017&disc=001

Sounds like something Brian would have done during one of his psychedelic parties, except with a more sophisticated bent.

[cutterschoice]

thanks for the info, guys. Very interesting indeed! Are there any quotes from Brian regarding this?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I had never heard of this until I bought a Nuggets box set of early psychadelic rock. When I read about this one and saw Gary Usher, Bruce Johnston, Glen Campbell and (Terry Melcher's?) names on it, I was suprised that I had never heard of it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Apparently he freaked out after hearing their 45 'My World Fell Down' as he felt some of the fragments were a little too reminiscent of his Smile material. This is because he learned they were listening to Smile recordings at one of the studios he was using, which some say led Brian to start recording at home? Also of note -- Bruce Johnston sings bgvs on My World Fell Down.

The single version of "My World Fell Down" - or at least the sound collage insert - was recorded at Columbia on February 9th 1967 (the rest of the song was cut there January 10th), and charted on June 24th. Between those two dates, Brian recorded at Columbia, Western, Sound Recorders and Gold Star: he started recording 'at home' on June 11th, after Smile was officially abandoned, but this assumes he only heard the song less than a fortnight before it was released. Considering Bruce was deeply involved with "MWFD" (and in fact there was a BB vocal session at Columbia the same day the album version was recorded !), I'd consider that highly unlikely. So, the weight of evidence is against Brian recording at home after hearing it and freaking out.

There was also a rumor that the sound collage on the 45 version was an actual Smile recording that Usher slipped in. No so - there's an 8-track sheet for it being assembled 1/10/67 at Columbia:

1 - tractor
2 - baby cries
3 - horse race
4 - alarm clock
5 - tele type
6 - gun battle
7 - symphony orchestra tuning
8 - pile driver

The collage also used a separate 4-track:

1 - power saw
2 - barroom brawl
3 - bullfight segue
4 - ? (might be 'engine')

The only Smile material that sounds even vaguely like this is the 'talking horns' session. As for Brian freaking out because people were sneaking listens to his music, remember, he was playing it for pretty much anyone who dropped in at Laurel Way or the various studios. or in other words, nice theory - doesn't hold up.  

[cutterschoice]

yeah, I didn't think this contributed to Brian recording from home, but Brian being upset with Usher over this seems very plausible.
I think the style of MWFD is very reminiscent of Smile.

But I don't know if people presume Brian was upset, or if there's something more concrete to go by

[Alex]

The Brian being upset by Sagittarius idea was floated by Priore in his 2005 book.

[Mr. Cohen]

I don't know if it made Brian upset, but hearing the singles by Sagittarius makes me sad, because it just makes me wish Smile would've been finished. Or, at least, that we could have gotten or single released during that period. It would answer so many questions. I guess that's partially why it didn't happen. Brian was afraid of the answer.

[punkinhead]

my fav track from that album is the Keeper of the Games

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Who was it that first said that Brian 'freaked out' when he heard this? Maybe it's just another 'fact' that has floated down through the years....

[Bicyclerider]

Brian freaking out doesn't surprize me.   He freaked out when he heard "Strawberry Fields," when he heard "My Obsession" being recorded by the Stones, when he saw Anderle's painting, when heard "Baby Please Don't Go" - the list goes on and on.  He was very insecure and worried that others were "ahead" of him in the recording game, that what he was doing wasn't current or "competitive" with the Beatles or others.   

[willy]

my fav track from that album is the Keeper of the Games

'Song To The Magic Frog (Will You Ever Know)' is my fave example of sunshine pop.

[runnersdialzero]

I read Brian freaked out the first time he ate Hy-Vee brand reduced fat baked wheat crackers.

[Myk Luhv]

Sagittarius is far too lightweight to be consistently interest to me. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I find the singles to be the most worthwhile. For my money, however, Begin by The Millennium is where it's at...

[willy]

Sagittarius is far too lightweight to be consistently interest to me. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I find the singles to be the most worthwhile. For my money, however, Begin by The Millennium is where it's at...

Totally! Perfect album + all the extras 

[DSamore]

"Begin" is awesome. I have it on reissued vinyl by Sundazed. What a purchase. Not nearly as of interest as anything by Brian/BBs, but very cool.

[markcharles75]

Begin is just so so good.  I would say it is most definitely in my top 10 favorite albums of all time and not many people know about it.  I cannot believe the sound coming from that thing production wise.  It is great BLASTING it in my car.  It sounds so modern, so current: it does not sound dated to me at all.