Carolyn Williams

[The Heartical Don]

Nah, there are always differences to focus on. Sad but true. Doesn't much matter what they are: get past one, identify another. Seems a society has gotta have an other to have a self.

Luther, you are pleasantly lucid when you're sloshed. Keep on drinking, man.

[Jay]

I'm pretty sure that every original Beach Boy has said the n word in private at least once in their lifetime. But framing this lady cause she had the wrong colour sounds just too wrong, even for Beach Boys standards.

This has nothing to do with twhat we are talking about, but your avatar scares me. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Oh...you meant "what".. I thought you typed something else

[Jay]

Oops. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

[Dancing Bear]

I'm pretty sure that every original Beach Boy has said the n word in private at least once in their lifetime. But framing this lady cause she had the wrong colour sounds just too wrong, even for Beach Boys standards.

This has nothing to do with twhat we are talking about, but your avatar scares me. 

I just changed it before I read your post. A good portrait of Brian's state of mind in '76. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm pretty sure that every original Beach Boy has said the n word in private at least once in their lifetime. But framing this lady cause she had the wrong colour sounds just too wrong, even for Beach Boys standards.

This has nothing to do with twhat we are talking about, but your avatar scares me. 

I just changed it before I read your post. A good portrait of Brian's state of mind in '76. 

I liked it! It looked like Brian singing "That Same Song" from the TV special, fist pumping and all.

[Dancing Bear]

I'm pretty sure that every original Beach Boy has said the n word in private at least once in their lifetime. But framing this lady cause she had the wrong colour sounds just too wrong, even for Beach Boys standards.

This has nothing to do with twhat we are talking about, but your avatar scares me. 

I just changed it before I read your post. A good portrait of Brian's state of mind in '76. 

I liked it! It looked like Brian singing "That Same Song" from the TV special, fist pumping and all.

Exactly. I captured the screen. Brian was in good shape that day.

[Jay]

The facial expression gave me an unpleasent visual of an overgrown, bearded weirdo getting a blowjob. 

[Mike's Beard]

Its a little unsettling that people are implying that Al is a racist for not liking the woman. You are perfectly entitled to dislike someone who has a different colour skin than your own just as long as it's not for that reason that you dislike them. Al disliked Carolyn from what I remember reading because she was hired as Brian's live in nurse/maid but thought nothing about scoring drugs for him and taking them with him. She just happened to have black skin. That does not make Al a racist.

[runnersdialzero]

Its a little unsettling that people are implying that Al is a racist for not liking the woman. You are perfectly entitled to dislike someone who has a different colour skin than your own just as long as it's not for that reason that you dislike them. Al disliked Carolyn from what I remember reading because she was hired as Brian's live in nurse/maid but thought nothing about scoring drugs for him and taking them with him. She just happened to have black skin. That does not make Al a racist.

Quiet, you racist.

[gsmile]

Its a little unsettling that people are implying that Al is a racist for not liking the woman. You are perfectly entitled to dislike someone who has a different colour skin than your own just as long as it's not for that reason that you dislike them. Al disliked Carolyn from what I remember reading because she was hired as Brian's live in nurse/maid but thought nothing about scoring drugs for him and taking them with him. She just happened to have black skin. That does not make Al a racist.

I understand what you're trying to say here (the group disliked Carolyn's character, NOT the color of her skin), but man that is the WEIRDEST roundabout way of say that.  This thread is treading into dangerous waters and it would be best if folks carefully worded their opinions here; it's easy to misunderstand the written word.

[Exapno Mapcase]

If that's what was said.  Remember Gaines going on about Dennis' fear of being raped by a black guy or the alleged homophobia of some band members towards Jack Rieley, yet they all seemed comfortbale with Curt Becher - and Christ knows, he can't have been the only gay they met in the entertainment industry. I've also read that it was Al, not Carl, who first admired Flame.  Geez, who knows any more?

[b00ts]

Its a little unsettling that people are implying that Al is a racist for not liking the woman. You are perfectly entitled to dislike someone who has a different colour skin than your own just as long as it's not for that reason that you dislike them. Al disliked Carolyn from what I remember reading because she was hired as Brian's live in nurse/maid but thought nothing about scoring drugs for him and taking them with him. She just happened to have black skin. That does not make Al a racist.

I understand what you're trying to say here (the group disliked Carolyn's character, NOT the color of her skin), but man that is the WEIRDEST roundabout way of say that.  This thread is treading into dangerous waters and it would be best if folks carefully worded their opinions here; it's easy to misunderstand the written word.

Why would you say something like that about my race? You awful, awful person!  Mike's Beard said nothing controversial or even remotely controversial; no problems here.

[gsmile]

Why would you say something like that about my race? You awful, awful person!  Mike's Beard said nothing controversial or even remotely controversial; no problems here.

I guess I misread runnersdialzero's comment "Quiet, you racist".  Possibly that was in jest as well?  Like I said, it's hard to judge irony or humor just based on written word on the internet.  As long as we're all in agreement that no one here is racist...oh, except Al of course. 

[The Heartical Don]

If that's what was said.  Remember Gaines going on about Dennis' fear of being raped by a black guy or the alleged homophobia of some band members towards Jack Rieley, yet they all seemed comfortbale with Curt Becher - and Christ knows, he can't have been the only gay they met in the entertainment industry. I've also read that it was Al, not Carl, who first admired Flame.  Geez, who knows any more?

That allegation about Dennis and his fear about being raped by a black man always struck me as particularly weird. Seems un-Dennis-like, that fear I mean. Unless he had homosexual feelings that he repressed, or perhaps a black guy made a pass at the young and impressionable Denny. Mind, I like to psychologize. Just a few thoughts, nothing special.

[Mike's Beard]

I was unsure if runnersdialzero's post was in jest or not but frankly I wasn't prepared to get into a racist/not racist debate based on my remark. Thanks for the support B00ts btw! Rest assures gsmile I thought long and how on how to phase my earlier post and made sure to bold font the most important part. I'm unsure why you consider it weird?

[gsmile]

I was unsure if runnersdialzero's post was in jest or not but frankly I wasn't prepared to get into a racist/not racist debate based on my remark. Thanks for the support B00ts btw! Rest assures gsmile I thought long and how on how to phase my earlier post and made sure to bold font the most important part. I'm unsure why you consider it weird?

It's all good Mike.  The way I saw it was runnersdialzero took your comment as being racist and although I could see what you were saying in your post (and that it was indeed the opposite of said assumption), I could also see how it could be misconstrued as racist.  I didn't mean to insinuate that anybody was indeed racist here, or imply that you hadn't totally thought out your post, I just felt I should make a comment that it's easy to misunderstand posts on a forum when tricky subjects like racism come into play.  Point in case I guess, and I've fallen prey to what I was trying to warn against!  Egg on my face. 

Now let's get back to the bigger question here:

WHERE ARE BRIAN'S PANTS???!?!?!?

[Mike's Beard]

Thanks for the reply and no you have no egg on your face!. Posts can be a tricky beast - sometimes what is running clear in the mind does not always translate as well when typed. I have fallen victim to this on many occasion in the last month or so since I became a member.   When I read back my post I did think to myself "No matter how carefuly I phrase this delicate matter, I just know SOMEONES going to get the wrong end of the stick!!"

[Exapno Mapcase]

And, of course, there's Mike allegedly calling Sean O'Hagan a 'limey fag'...

[b00ts]

And, of course, there's Mike allegedly calling Sean O'Hagan a 'limey fag'...

Whilst it is entirely possible that Mike did not say this - O'Hagan seemed like he had an axe to grind - I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

Human behavior has a lot of degrees and variations. Sometimes people say dumb stuff just... because. It could be because they are a bigot, or because they are just a jack-ass, or perhaps 70% one and 30% of the other.  As George Carlin said, it's not the language that matters, it's the attitude behind it. Still, it is pretty bad form for someone like Mike to say the above about a potential collaborator... but John Lennon said worse in interviews and no one is calling him a bigot.

Dennis' fixation about being raped by black men again sounds like something made up for sensationalistic purposes, but if it is true, it certainly speaks to some sort of messed up racial attitude.

As far as Carolyn Williams, she seemed like a pleasant lady. However, if the group had a problem with her because she was scoring drugs for and doing drugs with Brian, or even for being an enabler, it is certainly understandable and in no way necessarily means that they were racist. They certainly could have been, but it is a leap  in logic to assume so, except for the quotes in the Gaines book, which I wouldn't hang my hat on.

[Exapno Mapcase]

I know Mike should've been old enough to know better, but, of course, we have no idea how he said it...

Wasn't the Al allegation one of the things he took legal action against or did he sue because everyone was else did?!

[kirt]

  Dennis's fear of being raped came up on a board a few years back. Someone supposedly close to Dennis said ,he didn't know of it being true but, Dennis would say anything if it helped get him bailed  out of jail .  They also said Dennis would say anything to get a reaction or a charge out of someone.
 
 
 I agree with what has been said ,it sounds  like it was used for "sensationalistic purposes" in a book.

[Dancing Bear]

Dennis' fixation just seems to be a weird variation on Hawthorne humour.

I think Mike told Sean O'Hagan that all brits are fags. Which is definetly something you just shouldn't say to a person who's about to collaborate with you on a project, period, but I'd file it as another one of those 'jokes that bomb' that Mike loves to tell his audience.

[Mike's Beard]

Sean should have made a mock pass at Mike just to freak him out when he said that!!