Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[Steve Mayo]

Question, I remember a while ago, on another board, might have been the blueboard, where someone said there was a movie that had the whole BW 88 album playing through out or in a scene...anyone recall what this is or am I dreaming?

not totally sure of the name but i seem to remember the movie's title as lover boy...something like that. some kid gets a job as a pizza delivery guy and screws all these guys wife's. the husbands then try to track him down. i think about 3 or so songs from bw 88 were played...if this is the same movie you are asking about.

[bgas]

Question, I remember a while ago, on another board, might have been the blueboard, where someone said there was a movie that had the whole BW 88 album playing through out or in a scene...anyone recall what this is or am I dreaming?

not totally sure of the name but i seem to remember the movie's title as lover boy...something like that. some kid gets a job as a pizza delivery guy and screws all these guys wife's. the husbands then try to track him down. i think about 3 or so songs from bw 88 were played...if this is the same movie you are asking about.

You are, of course, correct! Starring Patrick Dempsey; info to be found here: http://www.fast-rewind.com/loverboy.htm

[punkinhead]

Back when Carl was trying to get Smile out in some form in the early 70s (around CATP/Holland era), how much work did he do? like what kind of research: mix anything? make a track list? or overdub anything?

Seems all he & Desper did circa 1972 was to gather all the available tapes together, listen to them, make a list of tracks/songs, make saftey copies and put them all back into storage. Had thay not made safties, a lot of the Smile music that we have today might be lost.

Dang, GO CARL! That should be on a Top 5 for Carl Wilson Appreciation Thread

[Jay]

I have always wondered about the relationship between Dennis and Bruce. Everybody knows that Dennis and Mike didn't get along at all in the last few years. As Bruce seems to have sided with Mike since around the early 1980's, did Dennis and Bruce not get along? I might be wrong, but I seem to remember Bruce getting some kind of credit on Dennnis's POB album.

[mikeyj]

I have always wondered about the relationship between Dennis and Bruce. Everybody knows that Dennis and Mike didn't get along at all in the last few years. As Bruce seems to have sided with Mike since around the early 1980's, did Dennis and Bruce not get along? I might be wrong, but I seem to remember Bruce getting some kind of credit on Dennnis's POB album.

Yep he is credited with backing vocals but I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't really a fan of the album from what I recall.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have always wondered about the relationship between Dennis and Bruce. Everybody knows that Dennis and Mike didn't get along at all in the last few years. As Bruce seems to have sided with Mike since around the early 1980's, did Dennis and Bruce not get along? I might be wrong, but I seem to remember Bruce getting some kind of credit on Dennnis's POB album.

Yep he is credited with backing vocals but I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't really a fan of the album from what I recall.

The falsetto on "End Of The Show" is Bruce. He also does the bvs to "Wild Situation" with Carl.

[Bicyclerider]

Back when Carl was trying to get Smile out in some form in the early 70s (around CATP/Holland era), how much work did he do? like what kind of research: mix anything? make a track list? or overdub anything?

Seems all he & Desper did circa 1972 was to gather all the available tapes together, listen to them, make a list of tracks/songs, make saftey copies and put them all back into storage. Had thay not made safties, a lot of the Smile music that we have today might be lost.

My understanding of what Desper and Carl did in 72:  collect tapes and either copy them or transfer them to 8 track (the instrumental sessions were originally on 4 track, with most vocal sessions done on 8 track at Columbia but not all).  The idea was to collect the material with safety copies and allow track room for overdubs for the planned release of Smile with Holland.  Much of the Smile boot material was derived from these 8 track compilations.  Desper has suggested that some minor work, i.e. overdubs, were attempted on some of the tapes but has never mentioned titles or what kind of overdubs were done, perhaps because he doesn't remember.  Of course we know overdubs were done on Prayer and Cabinessence (vocal overdubs) for 20/20 - interestingly, the multitrack tape for the Cabinessence version has disappeared, only the two track mixdown is in the Beach Boys tape vault.  I've wondered if the backing vocal for the Worms verse (the one released on the box set with the tape wobble) was a 1972 overdub, as it hasn't appeared elsewhere on the 8 track tapes that came out on Sea of Tunes.  Worms was on Carl's track list for the 72 Smile.  Of course if they bothered to do backing vocals on that, why not just record the lead vocal and then the track would be finished?  Unless they didn't have the lyrics and Brian (and Van Dyke) wasn't willing to cooperate.  Ultimately Brian's resistance to the project convinced Carl to abandon it.

[punkinhead]

I was recently listening to a recording of a concert (one of the first TLOS shows, I think)...anyways, it was one of the shows where When I Grow Up to Be a Man is performed (and then She Knows Me Too Well, then I'd Love just Once to See You); and the band sings one last part of When I grow Up accapella, and I can't figure out what they sing/say, it sounds like: "it's going to suck," or something like that, anyone wanna take a stab at this one?

[Jon Stebbins]

I was recently listening to a recording of a concert (one of the first TLOS shows, I think)...anyways, it was one of the shows where When I Grow Up to Be a Man is performed (and then She Knows Me Too Well, then I'd Love just Once to See You); and the band sings one last part of When I grow Up accapella, and I can't figure out what they sing/say, it sounds like: "it's going to suck," or something like that, anyone wanna take a stab at this one?

Its Kinda Sad

[punkinhead]

AH HA! Thank you!

[runnersdialzero]

Just saw the vocal credits thread - is that really Mike on "I Love to Say Da Da"? I'd always thought it was Brian.

[Wrightfan]

Just saw the vocal credits thread - is that really Mike on "I Love to Say Da Da"? I'd always thought it was Brian.

I've always thought it was Mike though I could see how someone would think it would Brian doing a rare pre-1972 deep vocal.

[runnersdialzero]

Just saw the vocal credits thread - is that really Mike on "I Love to Say Da Da"? I'd always thought it was Brian.

I've always thought it was Mike though I could see how someone would think it would Brian doing a rare pre-1972 deep vocal.

I don't hear any bit of Mike's bass voice in there.

On the Smile material, Brian's all over the place as far as tone goes - the "Good Vibrations" scratch take, "He Gives Speeches", and even the two different vocals we have for "Heroes and Villains" almost sound like four different vocalists. I really think it's him on "Da Da", but if not him, then I really don't think it's Mike.

[Myk Luhv]

This might be worthy of its own thread -- and if so, I will make one -- but for now I will place the question here:

Can someone more precisely lay out the lineage between the great American songwriters (Gershwin, Foster, Berlin, etc.) and Brian Wilson? I have heard often enough that he is considered -- or was, at least, during the 1966-67 Smile era -- to be a contemporary incarnate of this tradition. Is this because he fashioned an America in the Beach Boys' songs that was worthy of people like Berlin and Foster (although here I primarily think of Smile songs perhaps "Surfin' USA" and "Hawaii" might vaguely qualify), or merely that his compositional style was what Gershwin tended to do (with "Rhapsody in Blue" as the obvious example), or was it both? Surely there is reason people often group Brian in with Berlin and Gershwin and Porter and co., and although I have some sense of why, I'm curious what the more informed folks here think.

[Wirestone]

I don't know if he was really compared to such songwriters at the time.

Starting in the 70s, there was certainly a strain of criticism that talked about BW/BB music as archetypically American (surfing, cars, etc.) and how that was part of an American popular songwriting tradition that went back to people like Stephen Foster. That was primarily about subject matter, although the way the music made these subjects soar was certainly part of the equation.

Compositionally, I'm not sure if people really drew the connection until much more recently. And frankly, Brian's stuff is not always as sophisticated as the greatest songs by Porter, Berlin and Gershwin, etc. Brian worked in another tradition -- doo-wop and R&B flavored in the beginning -- and his songs came from that, although they were augmented with "adult" touches that he picked up from Four Freshman-style records.

That being said, like Lennon and McCartney, he took a very simple, three-chord popular form and made it something quite different. And he incorporates arrangement, production and performance in his tunes in a way that the Gershwin, etc. could not have imagined.

[Myk Luhv]

I don't know if he was really compared to such songwriters at the time.

Starting in the 70s, there was certainly a strain of criticism that talked about BW/BB music as archetypically American (surfing, cars, etc.) and how that was part of an American popular songwriting tradition that went back to people like Stephen Foster. That was primarily about subject matter, although the way the music made these subjects soar was certainly part of the equation.

Compositionally, I'm not sure if people really drew the connection until much more recently. And frankly, Brian's stuff is not always as sophisticated as the greatest songs by Porter, Berlin and Gershwin, etc. Brian worked in another tradition -- doo-wop and R&B flavored in the beginning -- and his songs came from that, although they were augmented with "adult" touches that he picked up from Four Freshman-style records.

That being said, like Lennon and McCartney, he took a very simple, three-chord popular form and made it something quite different. And he incorporates arrangement, production and performance in his tunes in a way that the Gershwin, etc. could not have imagined.

I should have figured such comparisons were not contemporaneous with his work in the 1960s.

That makes sense though. I suppose what I was wondering is whether he made a conscious effort to bring himself into that "great American songbook" tradition or if such comparisons were bestowed upon him after he just sort of did his thing. He certainly seemed to cover enough of such material, which is what made me curious initially. Thanks for the corrective! (I suppose if I knew music theory, Inside the Music of Brian Wilson by Phillip Lambert would be instructive here.)

[Sound of Free]

From the thread about songs where all the vocals are Brian:

Well, discounting the obvious (i.e. songs like "Caroline, No" or "Don't Talk..."), all the voices on "The Surfer Moon" sound awfully similar to me.

Of the seven vocal tracks on "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", six are Brian.

Which part is not Brian on that track? I thought they were all him...

Sorry, misremembered it slightly.

The 8-track sheet from Columbia looks like this (all spellings, etc. as on sheet):

1. Bryan - chorus
2. Bryan -  lead no. 1
3. vocal group no. 1
4. orchestra (i.e. instrumental track - AGD)
5. Bryan - lead no. 2
6  Bryan - chorus
7. vocal group no. 2
8. Bryan - no. 1 - echo

I also saw the same misspelling in (I think) the box set booklet.

Who working that closely with the Beach Boys thought his name was spelled "Bryan"? If his name actually was "Bryan" I could see misspelling it "Brian" because it's much more common with an "I" than a "Y" but not the other way.

Well, no matter how you spell it, Bryan is a great singer. Sometimes I have trouble telling his voice from Karl's. 

[Emdeeh]

Or Allan's. 

[Alex]

Or Allan's. 

Or telling his bass voice apart from Mikal's.

[hypehat]

Who does the grunts in 'Bicycle Rider'? Mike?

[Don_Zabu]

Or Allan's. 

Or telling his bass voice apart from Mikal's.

Gets even more complicated when you get Brunettie into the mix. 

[Domino]

Is it Brian on the piano on Don't Go Near the Water?

[Wrightfan]

Who does the grunts in 'Bicycle Rider'? Mike?

I always thought Mike as well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Who does the grunts in 'Bicycle Rider'? Mike?

I always thought Mike as well.

No, no NO !!! It's Brian !  Don't you understand ? Everything you think is Mike, is actually Brian - yes, even the lead on "Fun, Fun, Fun". Brian is a genius, he can imitate everyone's voice perfectly. Always remember this. It was even Brian pumping gas.

[Wrightfan]

Who does the grunts in 'Bicycle Rider'? Mike?

I always thought Mike as well.

No, no NO !!! It's Brian !  Don't you understand ? Everything you think is Mike, is actually Brian - yes, even the lead on "Fun, Fun, Fun". Brian is a genius, he can imitate everyone's voice perfectly. Always remember this. It was even Brian pumping gas.

YOU ARE TEARING ME APART AGD!