Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[SMiLE Brian]

S.P honeybunch is crazy. Eric David was Pinder here....

[RangeRoverA1]

I'm fine with the idea that the album's official title is "The Beach Boys Love You", but that it's easier to just say "Love You" when discussing it. Similarly, I usually refer to the '65 album as "Today", the '64 live album as "Concert", the '73 live album as "In Concert", etc.

Besides, this is BBs discussion board. Hence going by just Today etc.

[clack]

I've seen on message boards that were discussing that last, fan-controversial Star Wars film, use of the phrase "don't f*ck with the formula", usually unattributed or attributed to "as someone once said".

Has Mike's remark, which he might not have even said, entered the cultural lexicon?

[RangeRoverA1]

2clack: But it's very banal phrase, isn't it? Anybody could say it, nothing creative about it, you know.

[HeyJude]

I've never seen the specific phraseology "don't f*** with the formula" in reference to anything but the apocryphal BB-related instance. I'mnot sure how widespread its use has ever been in the "cultural lexicon." If a wider group beyond BB fans are familiar with it, I'd guess it would be other general music fans; fans of music of this particular era. So you'd probably have non-BB fans who are fans of the Beatles or Stones or some other mid-late 60s band who probably is familiar with that element of the BB story.

As someone interested in debunking things and keeping historical accuracy, I've always been very mixed when it comes to the phrase. I totally buy the idea that Mike never actually said that specific line to anyone. But he certainly had sentiments at given points in the band's history that amounted to something more or less the same. I also think whichever person in the BB extended world who first ascribed the comment to Mike probably did so not out of malice or out of fabricating the phrase, but was probably moderately to vastly paraphrasing something they *had* actually personally heard Mike say.

I'm also not 100% certain Mike *didn't* say that specific phrase. It's easy to believe he held the general sentiment, and also *one time* actually said that line to someone, and then plenty of time after that passed without anyone quoting him on it, and then by the time the quote did start circulating, Mike genuinely didn't remember saying it.

But c'mon, take something like some of Mike's interviews in "Endless Harmony" discussing the 66-67 timeframe. He's basically saying he was antsy about Brian "fucking with the formula", without using those precise words.

[Doobidoo]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

[the captain]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

I asked that once, maybe in the early days of this board. As I recall, S. Desper said it was string noise. (I thought it sounded like something sliding across a music stand, e.g., a pen or pencil.) I still have my doubts.

[JK]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

I asked that once, maybe in the early days of this board. As I recall, S. Desper said it was string noise. (I thought it sounded like something sliding across a music stand, e.g., a pen or pencil.) I still have my doubts.

This is what Reverend Joshua Sloane said about it 12 years ago: "To say that [BW] rushed recordings is false and too presumptuous for the info we have of the sessions. These sessions had engineers most of the time, an engineer wouldn't let obtrusive noises fly unless it was okay'd by the producer. The "curtain closing" noise in Wake The World is just too perfectly placed to be mistake. I bet that Brian was searching for a sound to imitate the pulling of curtains."

Source: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1820.msg38083.html#msg38083

It makes perfect sense (to me anyway). Although perhaps it's more of a "curtain opening" noise.

[JK]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

I asked that once, maybe in the early days of this board. As I recall, S. Desper said it was string noise. (I thought it sounded like something sliding across a music stand, e.g., a pen or pencil.) I still have my doubts.

Got a little time on my hands right now so...

Here are a couple more remarks from punkinhead:

"one of my fav's musically is Brian's little addition on Wake the World at :25, what was to be believed a music stand falling was actually his 'pulling of the shades/blinds' for letting the light in to wake the world....GENIUS!"

"When we FINALLY found out what that noise was on Wake The World (first thought to be a music stand…then we found out it was Brian using the window shades for a sound effect."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16010.msg386720.html#msg386720

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8593.msg144290.html#msg144290

[guitarfool2002]

I've never seen the specific phraseology "don't f*** with the formula" in reference to anything but the apocryphal BB-related instance. I'mnot sure how widespread its use has ever been in the "cultural lexicon." If a wider group beyond BB fans are familiar with it, I'd guess it would be other general music fans; fans of music of this particular era. So you'd probably have non-BB fans who are fans of the Beatles or Stones or some other mid-late 60s band who probably is familiar with that element of the BB story.

As someone interested in debunking things and keeping historical accuracy, I've always been very mixed when it comes to the phrase. I totally buy the idea that Mike never actually said that specific line to anyone. But he certainly had sentiments at given points in the band's history that amounted to something more or less the same. I also think whichever person in the BB extended world who first ascribed the comment to Mike probably did so not out of malice or out of fabricating the phrase, but was probably moderately to vastly paraphrasing something they *had* actually personally heard Mike say.

I'm also not 100% certain Mike *didn't* say that specific phrase. It's easy to believe he held the general sentiment, and also *one time* actually said that line to someone, and then plenty of time after that passed without anyone quoting him on it, and then by the time the quote did start circulating, Mike genuinely didn't remember saying it.

But c'mon, take something like some of Mike's interviews in "Endless Harmony" discussing the 66-67 timeframe. He's basically saying he was antsy about Brian "fucking with the formula", without using those precise words.

Anyone who doubts there was the exact sentiment of not wanting to f*** with the formula during the time Brian was reaching for new sounds and textures in his BB's productions just hasn't read enough of the history, or is simply ignorant of what went down. The sentiment was there and according to some who were actually there to witness this, that sentiment was expressed openly toward Brian.

Whether the exact wording of the famous quote is exact or not, there were people in the band's inner circle and within the family who were expressing that sentiment.

The more interesting aspect to consider is what exactly was the "formula" by the end of 1965? Surfing? Hot rods? Brian had already done side 2 of Today in 1964. The band's singles had nothing to do with surfing or hot rods by this point.

If someone can define this "formula" in the perspective of the time when the sentiment was being bandied about within the inner circle, I'd like to hear that definition. And I think that may have been one of the primary issues that caused friction (and it did...), the notion of asking in reply "what is this formula that our records should be following?".

[guitarfool2002]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

I asked that once, maybe in the early days of this board. As I recall, S. Desper said it was string noise. (I thought it sounded like something sliding across a music stand, e.g., a pen or pencil.) I still have my doubts.

This is what Reverend Joshua Sloane said about it 12 years ago: "To say that [BW] rushed recordings is false and too presumptuous for the info we have of the sessions. These sessions had engineers most of the time, an engineer wouldn't let obtrusive noises fly unless it was okay'd by the producer. The "curtain closing" noise in Wake The World is just too perfectly placed to be mistake. I bet that Brian was searching for a sound to imitate the pulling of curtains."

Source: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1820.msg38083.html#msg38083

It makes perfect sense (to me anyway). Although perhaps it's more of a "curtain opening" noise.

As far as random noises and the notion of Brian "rushing" recordings, there was in the 60's a certain niche of recordings that deliberately left in studio noises, or suggested the feel of a live catch-all atmosphere on the records. It's a small niche that doesn't get discussed as much today as a sub-genre, but there were a bunch of hit records in the early 60's that were going for the vibe of capturing a house party or a frat party or whatever you want to call it. One of the biggest is of course Louie Louie, but there were also ones like Double Shot of My Baby's Love which sounds like a frat party singalong with random voices joining in to sing. It's a pretty cool sound. Definitely not clean and polished, but that was the vibe.

So factor that in when the topic of 'Beach Boys Party!' comes up, and it's a direct line of influence. Capture the vibe of a party singalong...Boom, there is the concept. But it was not a new concept.

Then factor in that Rubber Soul was released about a month after Party!, and on the US Capitol pressing that Brian would have heard, they put (against McCartney's wishes) a version of "I'm Looking Through You" that had McCartney blowing numerous takes before starting the actual tune...I can see where McCartney would be upset, but maybe to Brian's ears it lent more to his impression that the whole album was "a gas", as in the listener got to hear this audio verite kind of vibe where Paul had several false starts on a song. It felt perhaps more human, more real to leave that kind of thing in there rather than trim it. Whether Capitol did it without the band's approval is one thing, but Brian and others hearing that on a Beatles record could have sparked some inspiration.

And that's where I think some of the more stray sounds that showed up on Pet Sounds were left on Pet Sounds. We can argue all day about whether those sounds were an aesthetic choice, a matter-of-fact owing to the limitations of the technology, or Brian being sloppy and rushing a mix, but those found sounds and audio verite vibe does add something to the overall feel of those tracks. It inspired other artists to do the same thing.

You really, and I mean REALLY hear it come out on Smiley Smile, almost to a fault...yet, it had that same vibe as all those frat-house records from the early 60's, only with different methods of inebriation. 

[Doobidoo]

In Wake The World, what is the sound that goes of at 0:24? It sounds a bit like when swords are drawn in movies, but I cant figure out what it is!

I asked that once, maybe in the early days of this board. As I recall, S. Desper said it was string noise. (I thought it sounded like something sliding across a music stand, e.g., a pen or pencil.) I still have my doubts.

This is what Reverend Joshua Sloane said about it 12 years ago: "To say that [BW] rushed recordings is false and too presumptuous for the info we have of the sessions. These sessions had engineers most of the time, an engineer wouldn't let obtrusive noises fly unless it was okay'd by the producer. The "curtain closing" noise in Wake The World is just too perfectly placed to be mistake. I bet that Brian was searching for a sound to imitate the pulling of curtains."

Source: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1820.msg38083.html#msg38083

It makes perfect sense (to me anyway). Although perhaps it's more of a "curtain opening" noise.

As far as random noises and the notion of Brian "rushing" recordings, there was in the 60's a certain niche of recordings that deliberately left in studio noises, or suggested the feel of a live catch-all atmosphere on the records. It's a small niche that doesn't get discussed as much today as a sub-genre, but there were a bunch of hit records in the early 60's that were going for the vibe of capturing a house party or a frat party or whatever you want to call it. One of the biggest is of course Louie Louie, but there were also ones like Double Shot of My Baby's Love which sounds like a frat party singalong with random voices joining in to sing. It's a pretty cool sound. Definitely not clean and polished, but that was the vibe.

So factor that in when the topic of 'Beach Boys Party!' comes up, and it's a direct line of influence. Capture the vibe of a party singalong...Boom, there is the concept. But it was not a new concept.

Then factor in that Rubber Soul was released about a month after Party!, and on the US Capitol pressing that Brian would have heard, they put (against McCartney's wishes) a version of "I'm Looking Through You" that had McCartney blowing numerous takes before starting the actual tune...I can see where McCartney would be upset, but maybe to Brian's ears it lent more to his impression that the whole album was "a gas", as in the listener got to hear this audio verite kind of vibe where Paul had several false starts on a song. It felt perhaps more human, more real to leave that kind of thing in there rather than trim it. Whether Capitol did it without the band's approval is one thing, but Brian and others hearing that on a Beatles record could have sparked some inspiration.

And that's where I think some of the more stray sounds that showed up on Pet Sounds were left on Pet Sounds. We can argue all day about whether those sounds were an aesthetic choice, a matter-of-fact owing to the limitations of the technology, or Brian being sloppy and rushing a mix, but those found sounds and audio verite vibe does add something to the overall feel of those tracks. It inspired other artists to do the same thing.

You really, and I mean REALLY hear it come out on Smiley Smile, almost to a fault...yet, it had that same vibe as all those frat-house records from the early 60's, only with different methods of inebriation. 

I think the subjects that you're bringing up from this question is really interesting. Wether the noise is intentional or not, I'm certain it's intentional. If you're listening closely, you can hear how they're "getting ready" for the sound the second before it comes. The explanation of curtains closing is the most reasonable one

[RangeRoverA1]

I'm sure it's factual information but, I didn't hear any curtains that sound like that. Way back when, as newbie, I said here at Smiley that I hear it as "snow shovel". It's still the same to these ears many years after.

About the infamous "formula" phrase - whoever said it, Mike-not Mike (been apathetic about dispute "who said it" since finding this board), it still seems to me extremely banal thing to say - anybody could. Look at it this way - it's mere "don't" + ubiquitous beat-up "f-word" + "with" + "the" + "formula". Granted, "formula" isn't too popular but not super-impossible that smb. would use it in that event.

[JK]

I asked this at PSF but got no response so I'll try here. I've been pondering this for quite a long time. But I've always been afraid of coming across as naive--until now.

Brian is almost entirely deaf in one ear. This means he can't hear music in stereo, the way everyone else does. What, I wonder, does he make of the stereo remixes? Does he listen to one channel at a time first? Does it sound enhanced to him, compared to the original mono? Does he balance it in such a way (i.e. turn one channel right up and the other right down) that even with one bad ear he can still hear stereo?

This still looks stupid for some reason (like asking why are wheels round) but I'll throw caution to the wind and not delete it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I’m partially deaf in my left ear. I mix in headphones and adjust the levels for monitoring purposes

[JK]

I’m partially deaf in my left ear. I mix in headphones and adjust the levels for monitoring purposes

OK, thanks Billy. In that case it can be assumed that Brian does the same.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

For Brian it may be a tad different as he was either born that way or ended up deaf as a child. For me it’s happened more and more over time.

[HeyJude]

There is a lot of nuance to what a true "stereo" listening experience is. I think one could turn and use their good ear and still balance out a stereo mix enough to make it work just fine. I would imagine someone more or less *fully* deaf in one ear can never fully grasp what it sounds like to hear in true stereo out of both ears at the same time. It's more than just some sounds coming from one channel and others from the other channel. There are a lot of special things that happen that simply can't be comprehended with one ear (creating a phantom third "center" channel, etc.).

But Brian has participated in plenty of stereo mixes, and by and large they sound just fine. Some are wide stereo mixes, some are narrow. So he's fully capable of making the mixes, and judging latter-day remixes by some set of standards.

I don't think we'll ever know precisely how Brian hears this stuff. But whatever he does, it works. Awesome for us, potentially a bummer for Brian.

[JK]

There is a lot of nuance to what a true "stereo" listening experience is. I think one could turn and use their good ear and still balance out a stereo mix enough to make it work just fine. I would imagine someone more or less *fully* deaf in one ear can never fully grasp what it sounds like to hear in true stereo out of both ears at the same time. It's more than just some sounds coming from one channel and others from the other channel. There are a lot of special things that happen that simply can't be comprehended with one ear (creating a phantom third "center" channel, etc.).

But Brian has participated in plenty of stereo mixes, and by and large they sound just fine. Some are wide stereo mixes, some are narrow. So he's fully capable of making the mixes, and judging latter-day remixes by some set of standards.

I don't think we'll ever know precisely how Brian hears this stuff. But whatever he does, it works. Awesome for us, potentially a bummer for Brian.

Thanks HJ (and Billy). That's about the answer I was looking for. :=)

[All Summer Long]

Is there a typewriter on the 15 Big Ones version of Back Home? I just got a headache trying to figure out what the sound was that's panned hard right during the verses.

[Rick5150]

Percussive shaker or something similar?
https://youtu.be/iQDUOODp0H8?t=310

[Rick5150]

Mike Love refutes the idea that he ever said "Don't f*ck with the formula" or some other iteration of that phrase. Clearly he remembers everything he ever said.

If the Brian would have made an 'about face' after Pet Sounds and went back to writing surf/car/girl songs and they score a few number one hits, I get the feeling that Mike would have said, "cousin Brian was starting to go off the rails, so I told him not to f*ck with the formula. I knew if we could just sit down in room together with no distractions, we could do it again. And I was right."

[SMiLE-addict]

An author on financial website Seeking Alpha appears to be a BB fan:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4177940-technology-god-knows-without

[pdas1996]

Does anyone know where the picture of Dennis in the booklet for the Warmth of the Sun album, on page 8, comes from? Would anyone have a copy of it?

[All Summer Long]

What was the type of organ Brian used on the early albums? Does anyone know any keyboards that can replicate this sound well?