Calling all Elvis enthusiasts !

[Malc]

Information needed ... !

Currently deep into research for a potential publication on BREAD, and one thing is constantly buggin' me !  It's well listed on various internet searches that David Gates acted as arranger (or maybe session musician) on one or more Elvis sessions - but I can find no record is this actually happening ! Does anyone out there have any full Elvis listings (books or otherwise) that they could look into it for me ? Sessions, dates ... or anything !
MUCH APPRECIATED !

Sadly Mr Gates himself has now retired from music and is reserving his memories for himself !

[Rocker]

Certainly not as an arranger I guess, but I also don't know about him doing any work with Elvis (I suppose we're talking about Presley and not Costello, right?)
Will check Ernst Jorgensen's "A life in music"-book and see if I can find anything

[Malc]

Certainly not as an arranger I guess, but I also don't know about him doing any work with Elvis (I suppose we're talking about Presley and not Costello, right?)
Will check Ernst Jorgensen's "A life in music"-book and see if I can find anything

Thanks man ! Yes, Presley - NOT Costello !! 
Gates did a whole lot of arranging and producing for literally dozens of artists during the 60's, more than most give him credit for, chalking up a few hits along the way, and he worked his way around most labels and studios, but he also filled in quite a bit as a session musician. I guess it COULD have been in that role during, say, 1962-1965 - although he was certainly active in all studio areas prior to Bread coming together in late 68/69 ...

[Rocker]

Well, he isn't mentioned in the Jorgensen book. Presley didn't use no arrangers until 1969/70 and the '68 coemback. But as far as I know Billys Strange and Goldenberg did most of those things. So he might have been a session musician. Do you have more info? If I should guess, I'd say he might've been on some of the later soundtrack-recordings like for "Charo" or "Live a little, love a little". MBE might know more

[Malc]

Hmmm - MBE are you there ??! I know he worked alongside Billy Strange quite a bit, so he may well have tagged along on one of his sessions - I've just found this quote from session drummer Marc Singer ...

"Jim Gordon invited me to  a session he was doing with David Gates from Bread. As I entered the studio I saw Elvis leavin ..."

and as Jim Gordon was the drummer on Bread's debut album from '69 I'm now guessing it was this period

[Rocker]

Couldn't find Gordon's name either in the credits. Let's wait and see if MBE has more info. You probably can't always trust the credits 100%
I'd guess if he indeed worked with Elvis it was in the '68-'69 movie period

[Christian]

David Gates did arrangements for "Charro!" soundtrack sessions on October 15, 1968 and November 25-27, 1968, musical conductor Hugo Montenegro.

[Rocker]

David Gates did arrangements for "Charro!" soundtrack sessions on October 15, 1968 and November 25-27, 1968, musical conductor Hugo Montenegro.

Interesting, Jorgensen only mentions Montenegro for this session. Don't have Tunzi's book, which probably has better and more accurate information in places. At least my guess about the time was right....

Malc, if you're interested, these two songs were cut at the session and for the movie. Interestingly only the titletrack was used in the movie and that just in the opening sequence. I'd guess Gates only did the arrangement on "Charro", because "Let's forget about the stars" doesn't have anything that an arrangement was needed to be done for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSiotjSEdOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPCp51e0XPI

Nice movie, good acting. And nude women....

[Malc]

THANK YOU to both of you for the info ! 

[Malc]

and one final thought !
Do you think Elvis was actually 'in the building' during the arranging/conducting sessions ? What was his recording pattern during this period ? Did he involve himself with the musicians - or simply turn up, add his vocals to the pre-recorded track and leave ... ?

Thanks again !

[Rocker]

and one final thought !
Do you think Elvis was actually 'in the building' during the arranging/conducting sessions ? What was his recording pattern during this period ? Did he involve himself with the musicians - or simply turn up, add his vocals to the pre-recorded track and leave ... ?

Up until this point, Elvis never used lots of strings, etc that needed arrangements. He usually worked out the arrangements on the spot with his musicians. He also didn't overdub his singing but sang live with the band (that's why it is very interesting to listen to the alt. takes, etc, as they are not only the same track with a mistake in the singing).
If orchestra was used, it was overdubbed onto the take Elvis chose as master. He probably wasn't always at the overdubbing-session but he was the one who said if the arrangement was what he wanted it to be or not. I can't say about "Charro", because it was a soundtrack song but on his regular recordings with orchestra Elvis chose the arrangements (often done from '70 on by his piano player Glen Hardin) and dictated the sound of the record.

I guess I can't explain too well what I want to say, so I'll just post a quote from Bones Howe (who in his beginning was Jan Berry's engineer and who worked with Elvis on the '68 comeback special for example):

“So what it boils down to was Elvis produced his own records. He came to the session, picked the songs, and if something in the arrangement was changed, he was the one to change it. Everything was worked out spontaneously. Nothing was really rehearsed. Many of the important decisions normally made previous to a recording session were made during the session. What it was was a look to the future. Today everybody makes records this way. Back then Elvis was the only one. He was the forerunner of everything that’s record production these days. Consciously or unconsciously, everyone imitated him. People started doing what Elvis did.”