Why is Melinda Opposed to A Reunion?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I always wanted to know the details behind the case, did Brian really choke on the stand, was it just a bad day, or was he sincere?

Go here - http://www.cabinessence.net/ - click on Writings, then scroll down to "Love vs Wilson" in the Essays column.

[Wilsonista]

One quick thing about Melinda and her feelings toward Mike Love....I believe Mike's big lawsuit about the lyrics/credits and getting his due was NOT personal against Brian. But, I don't think Melinda feels that way; I think she resents Mike because of it. I keep remembering that  Larry King interview. Again, Melinda was upset over money....

Ummmmm... and whose decision was it not to settle with Mike out of court for a reported $750,000, but rather fight the case and end up loosing something like $5,000,000 (minimum) ? Another stunning example of the caliber of Brian's management.

Without the benefit of hindsight, if I was in the shoes of Brian's camp, I would have done the exact thing.  The evidence in Mike's case was not as strong as he would have you believe.  Brian crumbling on the stand was the only thing that blew his defense and thus causing him to lose  the case.
 

Beg to differ: if my #1 witness in this matter was Brian Wilson circa 1994, I would not be dumb - or insensitive - enough to put him in the witness box. As for Mike's evidence, Brian had been saying for decades that he'd written the lyric to "California Girls", and while I remain convinced that he had little, if anything, to do with the other 34 titles claimed, that one would be seized upon as proof of reasonable doubt - and was. Brian's people screwed up big time on that one, both in terms of smarts and compassion.

 California Girls noted. Among the remaining 34  was "Wouldn't It Be Nice".  Tony Asher hotly disputes Mike's claim here. That could also similarly be seized upon as having cast doubt on Mike's argument, no?  You have rightly  cast doubts about Mike's claims. Yet the results of the suit have rewritten history. Many of the younger posters here (as an example) take Mike's claims at face value and elevate him to a greater role in the songwriting than maybe he deserves.  That might well have been a factor in deciding to  fight  in court.  While I probably would have chosen for Brian to give a taped deposition rather than take the stand, I can't really  blame them for  wantikng to fight.

[sofonanm]

I always wanted to know the details behind the case, did Brian really choke on the stand, was it just a bad day, or was he sincere?

Go here - http://www.cabinessence.net/ - click on Writings, then scroll down to "Love vs Wilson" in the Essays column.

I'm reading this now. He says the doc said Brian hears Murry, Phil Spector and Danny Hutton in his head? 

I shouldn't laugh, and I feel for Brian's condition, but c'mon! Danny Hutton?! I thought they were friends for a while? He hears his voice in his head? That's too funny/weird.

[Jon Stebbins]

I don't think its just the "younger posters" who might feel compelled to give Mike a greater role in the history of BB's songwriting. I think Brian himself felt that way. I know Dave Marks, who witnessed much of the writing that went into the first four or five LP's feels that way. Dave spent his last 10 bucks on parking to testify for Mike, not because he hates Brian or thinks Mike is a genius...but he knew Mike had written lyrics to songs on the first four LPs that he did not get credited for. That was the truth. I don't blame Brian for this, because those credits were the last thing on his mind. Murry was the business man. There was a pattern of Murry screwing the guys whose name was not Wilson, Mike was first on that list. Mike did contribute lyrics to a bunch of songs that he wasn't credited for on albums that sold huge numbers. How would you feel about that if it was you? I'm not the world's biggest Mike Love fan but when it comes to this issue i can relate to his aggressive posture. WIBN is one that people pull out and say, he just added like three words....well yeah but there's others where he contributed half if not the majority of the lyric set and didn't get credited, nothing, zip. He tired to negotiate a settlement and didn't get taken seriously. Mike was incredibly lucky to have a cousin named Brian Wilson...but that doesn't erase the fact that he should have been credited on the songs he wrote lyrics for.

[TdHabib]

I always wanted to know the details behind the case, did Brian really choke on the stand, was it just a bad day, or was he sincere?

Go here - http://www.cabinessence.net/ - click on Writings, then scroll down to "Love vs Wilson" in the Essays column.

I'm enjoying this (probably not the best word since it's fairly disturbing) a lot, and will have a few questions I hope someone can answer, so far two:

1. Is this writer fully credible? He seems (and I hate to use the terms because they're from a truly slanted US TV network) fair and balanced...

2. When you make critical statements about 'management', I may be wrong, but I just think that your talking at least partly about Melinda. Was she in the picture during this lawsuit? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your statements...

[sofonanm]

Best part of that article is where Brian bangs his leg on the lawyer's table and goes "Owwwwwww!" like a kid.

What a scene that must've been! 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I always wanted to know the details behind the case, did Brian really choke on the stand, was it just a bad day, or was he sincere?

Go here - http://www.cabinessence.net/ - click on Writings, then scroll down to "Love vs Wilson" in the Essays column.

I'm enjoying this (probably not the best word since it's fairly disturbing) a lot, and will have a few questions I hope someone can answer, so far two:

1. Is this writer fully credible? He seems (and I hate to use the terms because they're from a truly slanted US TV network) fair and balanced...

2. When you make critical statements about 'management', I may be wrong, but I just think that your talking at least partly about Melinda. Was she in the picture during this lawsuit? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your statements...

Back then, if I recall correctly, Melinda was his conservator.  They were married the following February.

[MBE]

I don't think its just the "younger posters" who might feel compelled to give Mike a greater role in the history of BB's songwriting. I think Brian himself felt that way. I know Dave Marks, who witnessed much of the writing that went into the first four or five LP's feels that way. Dave spent his last 10 bucks on parking to testify for Mike, not because he hates Brian or thinks Mike is a genius...but he knew Mike had written lyrics to songs on the first four LPs that he did not get credited for. That was the truth. I don't blame Brian for this, because those credits were the last thing on his mind. Murry was the business man. There was a pattern of Murry screwing the guys whose name was not Wilson, Mike was first on that list. Mike did contribute lyrics to a bunch of songs that he wasn't credited for on albums that sold huge numbers. How would you feel about that if it was you? I'm not the world's biggest Mike Love fan but when it comes to this issue i can relate to his aggressive posture. WIBN is one that people pull out and say, he just added like three words....well yeah but there's others where he contributed half if not the majority of the lyric set and didn't get credited, nothing, zip. He tired to negotiate a settlement and didn't get taken seriously. Mike was incredibly lucky to have a cousin named Brian Wilson...but that doesn't erase the fact that he should have been credited on the songs he wrote lyrics for.

Great post Jon, it's so obvious to see just blind anti Mike bias here. I feel like I am on the Blueboard.  Even the Tony Asher thing Mike came up with the last section and came up with the background vocals. That's worth a little bit of recognition. Besides person after person I talked to for my book said Mike wrote the darn things. Brian said Mike did in public both before and after the suit and it's one of the few things he has been consistent on. If Mike was able to write lyrics Please Let Me Wonder and Don't Run Away (by Bruce and Terry) there was nothing he was credited for that was beyond his scope. Help Me Rhonda was another song we knew for years was co-written by Mike. You can find a number of pre 1993 articles talking about how Mike wrote the song about a girl he met in Australia.

Hey I think Mike has been an ass for every other law suit. I think a large number of his post 1973 decisions have been backwards, but I do think he played a large role in the Beach Boys success. Frankly if he had been given credit for his contrabutions in the first place, I think his angry, bitter, selfish, side would not have become what it has making life easier for all concerned. Brian is not a god and Mike is not satan.

[TdHabib]

You can find a number of pre 1993 articles talking about how Mike wrote the song about a girl he met in Australia.

I know he wrote the lyrics, but I've never heard about this story before. Can you elaborate or post a link to an interview? Was the girls name actually Rhonda, because (and he could've been making this up) I remember an interview promoting the box set in 1993 where Brian said he liked the name Rhonda and thus started. Also, I think "Please Let Me Wonder" and "Kiss Me Baby" are the best lyrics the Beach Boys had up until that point...

[Dancing Bear]

I see it like this: Brian didn't want to do the Smile project. He had to be convinced and except for a few incidents he faced it and the monster wasn't so horrible after all. But it most probably took a lot of effort from Leaf (it was HIS dream after all) and Melinda.

A Beach Boys reunion would be a similar effort, and Brian would very probably have some fun in the end and not regret doing it. But I doubt Leaf and Melinda want to go through all that again, and well... It's David Leaf. Nuff said.

But I would expect that everybody that praises Brian's "healing experience" of revisiting Smile will eventually support a Beach Boys reunion as well.

[Jason]

Brian's not opposed to a reunion...that's Melinda talking through him. Anyone with a brain knows his interviews are incredibly scripted. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and has no regard whatsoever for anyone.

Tony Asher had it right back in 1966. It's a shame most fans don't get that or don't want to get it because they know it's true and hate to admit it.

[the captain]

Brian's not opposed to a reunion...that's Melinda talking through him. Anyone with a brain knows his interviews are incredibly scripted. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and has no regard whatsoever for anyone.

Tony Asher had it right back in 1966. It's a shame most fans don't get that or don't want to get it because they know it's true and hate to admit it.

It's great how you know everything. It proves you have a brain, as opposed to other people. You and Tony Asher are very smart.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian's not opposed to a reunion...that's Melinda talking through him. Anyone with a brain knows his interviews are incredibly scripted. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and has no regard whatsoever for anyone.

Tony Asher had it right back in 1966. It's a shame most fans don't get that or don't want to get it because they know it's true and hate to admit it.

It's great how you know everything. It proves you have a brain, as opposed to other people. You and Tony Asher are very smart.

It also proves he has guts. A lot of people might think certain things but don't have the guts to post them - or criticize other people who do.

[Jason]

SJS, it's nothing to do with guts. It's common sense and a little thing called OBJECTIVITY. Objectivity, Brian Wilson, and his rather simple-minded fans who eat up every word he says as "the gospel and if you don't agree with it you're a Mike fan" is like mixing ice and ice. You get more of the same and nothing new is made. I'm sorry that Luther disagrees with me but that's his opinion. You can read mine above.

But myths and half-truths need to be shattered and the truth needs to be uncovered. It was one thing to shatter the Dennis myth, another to shatter the David myth, but no-one really has the desire to shatter the Brian myth which has been built up to the point that even contesting it slightly is tantamount to cutting your dear mother's throat and shitting down the hole. That's wrong. I'm sorry others don't seem to understand that, but that's life.

I don't post these feelings I have about Brian because I think it's cool or fashionable in this post-Male Ego culture of Mike fellatio. It's called objectivity and seeing both sides of the story. Besides, if we can't all speak our minds properly here, what's the point of a forum? Think about that. I mean really think about it.

[Dancing Bear]

Brian's not opposed to a reunion...that's Melinda talking through him. Anyone with a brain knows his interviews are incredibly scripted. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and has no regard whatsoever for anyone.

Tony Asher had it right back in 1966. It's a shame most fans don't get that or don't want to get it because they know it's true and hate to admit it.

I think this is...

1. the post of the year so far
2. fucking obvious

[the captain]

I'm sorry that Luther disagrees with me but that's his opinion.

Who said I disagreed (or agreed)? I just don't like posts with "anyone with a brain" and such in them. The last thing on earth I'd go to bat for--as my posts over the years show-- is Brian's credibility in interviews.

[Jason]

Normally I dislike using that phrase and it's not something I enjoy throwing around. Some fans do indeed read between the lines in that lovely thing called the Brian Wilson Interview. I'm talking about the other group of fans who have positioned themselves in the upper echelon of Beach Boys fandom who take every interview, every word the man says as THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH. This mindset is ignorant and ignorance is bliss. Some might find my views ignorant and that's ok. Mileages may vary. We all have our own quirks. We're all fans, we all have opinions, and they stink like assholes. It's like the old George Carlin line -

"Ever notice how someone else's stuff is sh*t and your sh*t is stuff?"

[Wirestone]

Brian's not opposed to a reunion...that's Melinda talking through him. Anyone with a brain knows his interviews are incredibly scripted. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and has no regard whatsoever for anyone.

This statement is not only stupid, but ignorant and insulting. I don't think anyone believes that Brian Wilson is a saint. I don't think that anyone believes that he always speaks 100 percent objectively the truth. But to go from that to what you said is ludicrous.

What evidence do you have that "Brian's not opposed to a reunion" and that Melinda is talking through him? If you want to shatter myths and be holier than thou, be my guest. But please have some facts, and not rumors, or people telling you off the record, or what not. Tell me how you know. And if you think he has no regard for anyone -- which is a pretty mean thing to say about any person, famous or not -- tell me why you think that.

And then, finally, tell me why you want to do it. Why is it so important that the Brian "myth" be shattered? And what is the myth, anyway? That he's a 100 percent functioning, always-creative, entirely non-manipulated individual? I think people have been shattering that myth at least since the Landy days. Thanks for enlightening me on that one.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I see it like this: Brian didn't want to do the Smile project. He had to be convinced and except for a few incidents he faced it and the monster wasn't so horrible after all. But it most probably took a lot of effort from Leaf (it was HIS dream after all) and Melinda.

A Beach Boys reunion would be a similar effort, and Brian would very probably have some fun in the end and not regret doing it. But I doubt Leaf and Melinda want to go through all that again, and well... It's David Leaf. Nuff said.

But I would expect that everybody that praises Brian's "healing experience" of revisiting Smile will eventually support a Beach Boys reunion as well.

My recent impression is that, as with several other long-term friends, David isn't that involved in Brian's affairs any more. Read into that what you will.

As for "shattering the myth"... I prefer to think of it as documenting Brian's career accurately, and if that means denying him credit for something he's alleged to have done as well as restoring credit where it's missing, then fine. But Brian's career and impact on modern popular music is too significant to be handled carelessly, or worse, intentionally inaccurately. My belief is that there's an attempt being made to re-write history at a high level and, to quote Churchill, this is something up with which I will not put. Having my ass kicked off the Bloo indicated to me (along with other recent events) that others are of like mind.

[Jason]

Clay, the only facts I can give you are spread through so many books, interviews (with Brian and other Beach Boys), and much of what I'm coming to is basically a personal conclusion from the stuff I've read and heard over the years. Like I said in an earlier post, your mileage may vary. Yours most definitely does. And that's fine. No disrespect intended.

The impression I get from Brian is, on the topic of a reunion, much of the "no reunion" stuff has come since Melinda entered the picture. I don't think Brian actively disassociated himself from the Beach Boys in the wake of Carl walking out on the Was sessions in '95. I don't believe Carl had a problem with Brian or what he contributed to the group in those sessions. I believe Carl had a problem with all the outside meddling. Now as far as Carl walking out on Dancing The Night Away, that's anyone's guess as to why it was that song and not any number of the other trainwrecks he lent his voice to. I personally believe it was something to do with Carl being disenchanted with the fact that Brian was not the man in charge of the sessions when Carl really wanted a BRIAN WILSON PRODUCTION combined with a terrible song on which he was half-heartedly laying vocals down. Of course, Carl probably understood the situation since we all know he had been bitten before by Brian as far as Brian being in charge was concerned. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Discussed earlier in the thread was the topic of Michael going to court for his deserved credits on the 39 songs he was awarded. One poster (forget who at the moment) said that Michael did not mean it as a personal thing against Brian and frankly I believe that and would take it to the bank. But that's the classic "Mike vs. Brian" scenario. Needless to say, I don't think Melinda felt the same way.

These are just two examples.

As far as Brian not having any regard for anyone, that's a personal opinion, and I do admit it's not exactly palatable. That situation goes back to at least '66 or so. Brian's on top of the world, he has all these people around him doing anything he wants and....WOW...he LIKES this adoration! Deservedly so. I would like it too, as would anyone else. But here's where my common ground with Brian and his stature forks. Sooner or later you have to wake up and smell the roses and realize that you're no more better or worse than anyone else. Brian should have realized this when the world in general stopped caring and I believe Brian let go of this superiority complex MUCH later than he should have. I'm sure we all feel "yeah, if I got anything I wanted before, why can't I now?" The more reliable information in the more reliable books showed me that Brian's years of relative idleness were basically Brian trying to get whatever he could off of whomever would give it to him. Total sociopath behavior. No regard for anyone except him during that time. That's wrong. If you can't understand that, Clay, I don't know what to tell you, man. That's your trip and you have to take it.

The Brian myth is pretty much that Brian's so badly done to and that he's a musically-inclined Rodney Dangerfield. I would say the man has it very well, and that's great for him. I'm glad (and I won't deny it) that Brian has relative peace in his life, and he DOES deserve it, if not after a debilitating drug and alcohol addiction, after being under the care of an incredibly overbearing jerkoff like Landy. But Brian doesn't have it so bad now. Landy was bad news, yes. I won't deny that. But the Beach Boys are the least of his problems. I don't think Brian has it in him to not want a reunion with Mike, Al, and Bruce. That upsets me because I would love to see the four of them together onstage. I know we have all the videos and bootlegs from the old days so we can reminisce, but I'm sure we all would love to see Brian back onstage with his band.

In closing, Brian is a Beach Boy. Brian is not the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys are the Beach Boys. Always and forever.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

As for "shattering the myth"... I prefer to think of it as documenting Brian's career accurately, and if that means denying him credit for something he's alleged to have done as well as restoring credit where it's missing, then fine. But Brian's career and impact on modern popular music is too significant to be handled carelessly, or worse, intentionally inaccurately. My belief is that there's an attempt being made to re-write history at a high level and, to quote Churchill, this is something up with which I will not put. Having my ass kicked off the Bloo indicated to me (along with other recent events) that others are of like mind

Exactly.  I don't know why there's such a level of deception...who cares if Brian's not on the same level he once was? Big f'n deal. Let Brian be Brian.  So what if TLOS wasn't 100% Brian doing everything, writing everything, producing everything. It's still a damned fine album, and the 2nd best solo disc by any of the BB save Dennis'.

Brian's a human being. He's not and never was perfect. He made a lot of mistakes for which he has paid dearly and continues to do so.

e more reliable information in the more reliable books showed me that Brian's years of relative idleness were basically Brian trying to get whatever he could off of whomever would give it to him. Total sociopath behavior. No regard for anyone except him during that time.

That's true. Sad, harsh, but true. All the spin put out by Brian's camp can't change the facts (although they sure as hell can hide them...). Thing is, though, he'll readily admit to it, and has. If Brian can own up to his past foibles, why the hell can't anyone else seem to?!

[Jason]

You've put it very well, Billy. Kudos. Brian has owned up to it indeed.

Everything's All Right With The World.

[MBE]

You can find a number of pre 1993 articles talking about how Mike wrote the song about a girl he met in Australia.

I know he wrote the lyrics, but I've never heard about this story before. Can you elaborate or post a link to an interview? Was the girls name actually Rhonda, because (and he could've been making this up) I remember an interview promoting the box set in 1993 where Brian said he liked the name Rhonda and thus started. Also, I think "Please Let Me Wonder" and "Kiss Me Baby" are the best lyrics the Beach Boys had up until that point...

The girl's name was Sandra Rice he stayed longer then the others after the 1964 down under tour to spend time with her. He proposed and intended to marry her and she gave an interview about in 1964 to an Aussie DJ.  He gave an interview about it too. I guess the distance proved to be the problem. This is in the Badman book and it apperars to be based on 1960's radio interviews. Now I think Brian did make up the name Rhonda because he liked it. Anyhow it's a cool story that rings pretty true.

[MBE]

You guys got it right, Brian is the first to admit his mistakes. I think he has a good heart and is a decent person, but he's not this marter. He can be great and a jerk just like any of the Beach Boys. Myth's are worth nothing. These are real people with real feelings. As observers we all have a right to our opinion, I personally just hate when people rip on any of the guys based on their own prejudice. None of us are drinking buddies with them, but as in all situations we have to judge from what we see or are told. In doing that we have to be open to all sides and try to understand the whole picture. Myopic Brian loving and Mike bashing is just out of fashion and somewhat small. I don't hate Melinda, and only really dislike Leaf due to my personal interaction with him, but I am disturbed about certain things they have said publically and I have a right to comment. You have a right to think I am mad, but I and others who don't believe every bit of PR are not talking out their rear ends.

[Amy B.]

I just woke up, so maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but I seem to be reading these two arguments from some of the same people:
1. Brian is being manipulated by Melinda.
2. Brian is manipulative and has displayed the behavior of a sociopath.

Number one seems to argue that Brian _is_ a martyr. Number two seems to argue that it's Brian, and not Melinda, who does not want a BBs reunion because, maybe, it would take the spotlight off him and only him. So which is it? Well, this has been argued about so many times before, which is funny, because I don't think anyone on this board subscribes to the idea that Brian is a saint. I think the truth will never be known by anyone, not even Brian. Inside sources may be on the inside, but that doesn't mean they're accurately interpreting what's going on. Here's my theory, and it's only a theory, because I'll freely admit that I know nothing beyond what I've read, and even the best Beach Boys books are just speculation and theory. Brian is a human being. Mike is a human being. Melinda is a human being. And Carl was a human being (despite attempts to make _him_ a saint). Sometimes they do good things for other people. Sometimes they intentionally do bad things. And sometimes they make mistakes. I'm not sure Brian hasn't gone back and forth in his mind about this idea for a reunion. One minute he'd love to work with Mike again, and then next, he thinks, "Wait. That would be really hard. After the first day, the old feelings will be stirred up, and I'm not sure I want to go back there again." And then he thinks, "But wait. It might be cool." And so on. Kind of like what Darian said was Brian's reaction to the Smile project. And maybe Melinda is against the reunion, but maybe her reasoning isn't any less good-intentioned than the reasoning of those of us on this board who are against it-- "Brian's doing well now; why rock the boat?" And maybe when Brian seems to ask someone off camera if they're having a reunion, it's because he doesn't want to be the object of criticism from pro-reunion forces, so he passes the buck and creates a scapegoat. After all, he's a sociopath, right?