Brian's production tricks: things over looked in BWPS and many Smile playlists

[The Song Of The Grange]

I think I read this very same debate almost five years ago.  Way to move on with your lives!

What is your aim, to end all debate about Smile?  Don't you have better things to do then tell people you aren't interesting in certain subjects.  What where you hoping to achieve, maybe make a few people fell shallow?  Good work, you are officially cooler than me.  There you go, you won!  I'm a Smile nerd and proud of it.  Some of us still obsessed with the topic, others are new comers and want to learn about the legend.  Why else would I be reading a message board called "Smiley Smile"?!  There's like 20 people in the whole world that still obsess over Smile post-BWPS, and most of them are right here on this board.  Don't debate Smile?  If not here, then where?

P.S.
There is no moving on from Smile.  BW will one day be seen as one of the key composers of the 20th (and 21st) century.  Many consider Smile and Pet Sounds his most important work.  It is sights like this one where the next generation of story tellers and chroniclers cut their teeth.  Without them who will keep the BW legend alive and well 50, 100, 200 years from now?  It is these same nerds on whose parade you rain on.

[Jonathan Blum]

Sure they approved it, but the point of view I take is that there is no way that a 24-year-old Brian Wilson would have approved it.

No, because a 24-year-old Brian Wilson wouldn't have approved anything.  If you're asking "What Would Brian Do?", we know the answer -- What Brian Would Do is pop too many pills, freak out, hijack a busload of penguins, decide to burn the tapes, and run in the opposite direction from the entire project for the next few decades.

In order to even have this discussion, you have to invent a sort of Fantasy Brian, who says far more about the guy having the fantasy than it does about the actual Brian Wilson.  Some peoples' Fantasy Brian is far more like Frank Zappa, who went to the edge and back over and over again, than the actual Brian, who went to the edge and fell off it.  But my Fantasy Brian is way more like the guy who did "Pet Sounds", who used a few bits of trickery but focused far more on the musical part of musical experimentation.

And more basically, I prefer the real Brian, who finally finished the damn thing and faced it.  With help and encouragement and other peoples' contributions, yes, but he still did it.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Mahalo]

I think I read this very same debate almost five years ago.  Way to move on with your lives!

What is your aim, to end all debate about Smile?  Don't you have better things to do then tell people you aren't interesting in certain subjects.  What where you hoping to achieve, maybe make a few people fell shallow?  Good work, you are officially cooler than me.  There you go, you won!  I'm a Smile nerd and proud of it.  Some of us still obsessed with the topic, others are new comers and want to learn about the legend.  Why else would I be reading a message board called "Smiley Smile"?!  There's like 20 people in the whole world that still obsess over Smile post-BWPS, and most of them are right here on this board.  Don't debate Smile?  If not here, then where?

P.S.
There is no moving on from Smile.  BW will one day be seen as one of the key composers of the 20th (and 21st) century.  Many consider Smile and Pet Sounds his most important work.  It is sights like this one where the next generation of story tellers and chroniclers cut their teeth.  Without them who will keep the BW legend alive and well 50, 100, 200 years from now?  It is these same nerds on whose parade you rain on.

I am a SMiLE nerd...and I have a beautiful girlfriend. She accepts my obssesion with the SMiLE and the SS board. Chicks love SMiLE nerds. Better discussions on this than on his marriage. IMO.

 Anyone notice the trombone line during H&V is not as driven on BWPS as the original...just a little production thing a ma jig.

[mrski]

Which all brings to mind one of the biggest problem of BWPS, where I think is where the biggest complaints come from: it doesn't take many risks.

No risk taking on BWPS...?

Where is "Do You Like Worms"? Where is "Love To Say Dada"?

Instead we have "Roll Plymouth Rock" and "In Blue Hawaii"...What does that say to you...?

[buddhahat]

I also never got the "original recordings were more dark and that's something the new tracks lack" opinion. Weren't the new tracks dissed for being too close to the original arrangements? I never, ever got those lines of thinking.

It's not that they were "dark" (although that piano and ominous bass part in Child is dark) but there was an unmistakable element in those old recordings that has not been captured on the new recordings. The first time I heard the Bicycle Rider feel on a bootleg, as it burst in after "Rock, rock, roll..." I thought it was mystical, the way it seemed to burst out. Compare that to the same part on BWPS.

The drugs were taken out of Smile for BWPS. 

I know what you're saying and I don't think anyone here would say they prefer the sound of BWPS to the original sessions (Peak-Brian production, the classic Beach Boys blend, etc.), but I have to disagree that the drugs were taken out of BWPS.

My first experience of Smile was hearing it at the 2nd RFH show and what blew my mind in quite a profound way was the 'drugginess' of these songs that I'd never heard. Hearing the slow verses of Child for the first time all I could think was that you could practically see the LSD dripping out of Brian's keyboard. I had an 'Aha' moment when I suddenly appreciated the sheer gravity of Smile and why it meant so much to so many people. It's music that sounds like it's on the edge - achingly beautiful but in a sort of queasy unsettled way. It's a perfect snapshot of Brian's mental state at the time. Of course I knew the backstroy so this probably coloured my judgement more than a little, but the drugginess and the craziness of the music was entirely authentic.

And so my point is, BWPS doesn't rinse all the pot and acid out of the music. A lot of it is still there in Brian's compositions. What is added imo is the tragic counterpoint of on-the-precipice-67 Brian, and the wreckage that is left of BW in 04. It's like a before and after, and therefor what you have in BWPS is the entire history of the Smile saga.

As an afterthought, I love this debate - it has been raging on this board for five years, and Sheriff John is always at the centre whipping up a storm with his fakery theories. Personally as I've always argued, I don't understand why we can't have both and enjoy them for what they are. The sessions in all their authentic glory, and BWPS as a chance to hear a cohesive flowing version of Smile that the original authors regard as the finished composition. Of course BWPS doesn't sound as good as the originals - go back and listen to the sessions instead! Don't like the incompleteness of the original fragments? Dig BWPS out. Everyone's a winner!

[Mahalo]

In many ways, BWPS is one giant risk.....

[Mahalo]

Of course BWPS doesn't sound as good as the originals - go back and listen to the sessions instead! Don't like the incompleteness of the original fragments? Dig BWPS out. Everyone's a winner!

True Story.

[MBE]

I prefer the Do You Dig Worms title myself, it works as a joke then.

[BJL]

I think it's a shame that they didn't release Brian Wilson Presents Smile LIVE!!  (two exclamation points, just like summer days!!) 
Instead of trying to recreate the past, they would have been breaking new ground, with a record that might well be seen as one of, if not the, greatest live album of all time, not to mention that the live shows just sounded better.  Granted, with BWPS as is, we get both, but we also lose something.  The legend is half the point.  I love the smile music, but if you think smile is just about the music, i think you're kidding yourself :-) 

[Dr. Tim]

When he reviewed it, Robert Christgau echoed Noname that BWPS was one giant risk: "This sounded like a terrible idea.  Instead, it's a triumph."

Which apparently the 300,000+ who bought the thing presumably thought too.  (I bought at least 5 to give as presents to those I thought needed to hear it, plus a vinyl copy to get the stack-o-tracks on side 4).

But what do they know.

I understand the RFH shows were recorded but were too ragged to release.  So was the NPR live version (I heard it, then decided not to download it). The best recorded live version is probably the one on the DVD.  By that point the band could do the piece in their sleep.

[buddhahat]

I think it's a shame that they didn't release Brian Wilson Presents Smile LIVE!!  (two exclamation points, just like summer days!!) 
Instead of trying to recreate the past, they would have been breaking new ground, with a record that might well be seen as one of, if not the, greatest live album of all time, not to mention that the live shows just sounded better.  Granted, with BWPS as is, we get both, but we also lose something.  The legend is half the point.  I love the smile music, but if you think smile is just about the music, i think you're kidding yourself :-) 

I don't know. i think I'm in the minority of fans who has no urge to hear recordings of Brian do stuff live. I just don't think he's that great enough a live performer now to justify live releases (just my opinion of course). I'd hate it if all we had was live version of BWPS over the studio recording. I find the live DVD of Smile hard to watch as all Brian's frantic smiling seems so forced. I'd rther see him mumbling and uncomfortable on stage than the airbrushed grinning BW we get in the live dvd.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I think I read this very same debate almost five years ago.  Way to move on with your lives!

What is your aim, to end all debate about Smile?  Don't you have better things to do then tell people you aren't interesting in certain subjects.  What where you hoping to achieve, maybe make a few people fell shallow?  Good work, you are officially cooler than me.  There you go, you won!  I'm a Smile nerd and proud of it.  Some of us still obsessed with the topic, others are new comers and want to learn about the legend.  Why else would I be reading a message board called "Smiley Smile"?!  There's like 20 people in the whole world that still obsess over Smile post-BWPS, and most of them are right here on this board.  Don't debate Smile?  If not here, then where?

P.S.
There is no moving on from Smile.  BW will one day be seen as one of the key composers of the 20th (and 21st) century.  Many consider Smile and Pet Sounds his most important work.  It is sights like this one where the next generation of story tellers and chroniclers cut their teeth.  Without them who will keep the BW legend alive and well 50, 100, 200 years from now?  It is these same nerds on whose parade you rain on.

Right on Grange! If there's anything that deserves the OC treatment, it's the original Smile sessions!

[Sheriff John Stone]

When he reviewed it, Robert Christgau echoed Noname that BWPS was one giant risk: "This sounded like a terrible idea.  Instead, it's a triumph."

Which apparently the 300,000+ who bought the thing presumably thought too.

How do you know what 300,000 who bought the album presumably thought? While it is not the only indication, what were the sales figures for Brian's two follow-up albums, What I Really Want For Christmas and That Lucky Old Sun? And, were record companies standing in line to sign Brian after BWPS?

Getting back to BJL's point about releasing BWPS as a live album, that's what I always hoped for. That way BWPS (the album) wouldn't have to stand as the only released document of all the SMiLE songs together. As a matter of fact, I still wish they'd release a live version, using the Beautiful Dreamer concert; it can't get much better than that. What I'd really like to see is a double CD, the first Disc being some opening hits including "California Girls", "Darlin", "Surfer Girl", etc. AND the  complete Pet Sounds Live (another version other than the released one). Disc 2 would be BWPS with some closing encores like ""Help Me Rhonda", ""I Get Around", "Fun Fun Fun", and closing with "Love And Mercy". It would be the greatest live CD ever released!

[sofonanm]

What Brian REALLY needs to do is perform Smiley Smile live. Now that'd be a concert. For "Vegetables" it could be just him and his bass, and the rest of the band chewin' on veg and drinkin' water.

Ok, that's never gon' happen. You know what would be better, performing Friends live. The whole album. But the setting would have to be different. Not that big band sound they have. They should all be sitting, yeah sitting. With straw hats and corn cob pipes. Overalls and boots. In a field, with some cows near.

[sockittome]

I think I read this very same debate almost five years ago.  Way to move on with your lives!

What is your aim, to end all debate about Smile?  Don't you have better things to do then tell people you aren't interesting in certain subjects.  What where you hoping to achieve, maybe make a few people fell shallow?  Good work, you are officially cooler than me.  There you go, you won!  I'm a Smile nerd and proud of it.  Some of us still obsessed with the topic, others are new comers and want to learn about the legend.  Why else would I be reading a message board called "Smiley Smile"?!  There's like 20 people in the whole world that still obsess over Smile post-BWPS, and most of them are right here on this board.  Don't debate Smile?  If not here, then where?

P.S.
There is no moving on from Smile.  BW will one day be seen as one of the key composers of the 20th (and 21st) century.  Many consider Smile and Pet Sounds his most important work.  It is sights like this one where the next generation of story tellers and chroniclers cut their teeth.  Without them who will keep the BW legend alive and well 50, 100, 200 years from now?  It is these same nerds on whose parade you rain on.

Whoa, take it easy there!  Don't go all Barney Fife on me!  I didn't criticize you for starting this thread (although if you want to get technical, your wording of "things overlooked" in the heading does imply that you believe clumsiness or apathy was involved in the recording of BWPS).  But I digress.  Maybe I just read that into your words.

I agree, there is no moving on from SMiLE...or BWPS, which is part of the SMiLE story.  What I don't agree with is this idea that one must be inferior to the other in order to reach some sort of conclusion.  And it seems like these debates always sink into that territory.  I like what Buddhahat posted: "Everyone's a winner!"

My earlier statement is my response to some of the points brought up on pages 1 and 2.  People can agree or disagree with my response and apparently you disagreed as evidenced by the first part of the above quote (which had me rolling on the ground, BTW!)  And FWIW, I fully agree with your P.S.



 

[sockittome]

And FWIW, I fully agree with your P.S.

....except for the raining on the nerds part.


Thought I'd clear that up.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I am a BW fan who thoroughly appreciates the courage on his part and the talent and dedication of all the principals involved in the production of BWPS. I am extremely thankful
that it exists, was assembled, old & new lyrics restored, written & sung (especially in Roll Plymouth Rock/Do You Like Worms, Barnyard, Song For Children/Look, CIFOTM, Holidays ((Do You Like Worms lyrical reprise-excellent! Originally intended?)), I'm in Great Shape, In Blue
Hawaii/Love to Say Dada), the beautiful backing vocals and string arrangement in "Surf's Up", etc., and the unprecedented-in-pop-music closure of unfinished business that it represents.

I agree with those here who refuse to polarize the issue and compare the original recordings
and the new version with the intent of gratuitously exalting one over the other. They both have their place and occupy different roles.

That said, it seems obvious that, even if BWPS is the final iteration of the album and no sessions set is ever issued (heaven forbid), there are intangible aesthetic elements that the
original music possesses that were not possible to replicate, for whatever reason, in the
making of BWPS. These intangibles (a "dark", mysterious, spine-tingling quality that
is unique unto the original material, Brian's palpable passion and fantastic, youthfully delicate
vocals ((& the other band members irreplaceable family vocal blend))etc.), in and of themselves, make said material worth every iota of devotion and, yes, nerd-like obsession lavished on it, and not resting until everything left in existence is released in some form.

I reiterate that I love BWPS, am VERY thankful and appreciative for its existence (and the unforgettable privilege of seeing it performed live) and the unique qualities that IT possesses,
which are many.

Let both SMiLEs be sent out into the universe and return to us, to paraphrase the old native
American saying (and let a sessions box, with unheard material, be released someday).

Thank you Brian (& others) for SMiLE!

[Jason]

Brian Wilson Presents Smile is NOT Smile. It's a live performance of unfinished Smile music with some new additions. Smile was, is, and always will be the albatross in the BEACH BOYS' story.

It was indeed one thing when we all heard about "The Master Plan" for Smile, which was regurgitated in so many Brian interviews that we, like the world in general, eventually thought "yeah right" and went on with our lives. Then we hear that there would be a series of live shows of what was called "Smile" and dates were set. We freaked out like little children when we heard that, and some of us were privileged enough to see the early tracklist that leaked out in 2003.

The first performance went off like a hoot, as the bootleg which came out literally a few hours later showed all who couldn't be there. Now, it's one thing to have a performance of Smile music in a live context. And that's how Brian Wilson Presents Smile should have remained. A LIVE PERFORMANCE. Going into the studio to do what amounted to a basic carbon copy of the live gigs, with the same sampled keyboards, overall dry (read: no WARMTH) sound, and shouting by Brian, might have proven nice to those who couldn't see a show or couldn't find bootlegs, but over time has proven to be distasteful, disrespectful of the Smile music and mystique, and disrespectful of Brian himself (that is, if the eight or nine million Brianistas out there still need more convincing as to how he's not in the driver's seat of his career). Not to mention disrespectful to the Beach Boys, for whom this music was intended.

Time will eventually show, when a Beach Boys Smile sessions package is finally released (not IF, and if you believe otherwise spare us all the bullmerda and agonizing torture of "RESPECT BRIAN'S WISHES BECAUSE BRIAN DOESN'T WANT THEM OUT!!!!" - "Brian doesn't want them out" my ass; he's just as money-minded as anyone else in the Beach Boys - it's all good timin' ) and the public at large can hear Brian's amazing original recordings AS THEY WERE INTENDED TO SOUND BY BRIAN before the sessions came to their demise, that the studio BWPS is a forgery of the Smile music - dishonest, tasteless, insulting, and, above all, degrading to the Beach Boys and Brian legacy, not to mention THE FANS.

[Dr. Tim]

Quote from the Sheriff:
How do you know what 300,000 who bought the album presumably thought? While it is not the only indication, what were the sales figures for Brian's two follow-up albums, What I Really Want For Christmas and That Lucky Old Sun? And, were record companies standing in line to sign Brian after BWPS?

Reply: About the 300,000?  Easy.  I am large.  I contain multitudes.  300K worth if you must know.  All of whom played it a few times then put it in the mp3 playlist mix, along with Pepper, Led Zep II, Guns 'n' Roses, Feist, and T.I., like everyone else does now.  They "tweet" me poisonally to keep me in the know.

Your other examples are false negatives, made irrelevant by the general collapse of the music biz, in which all are doomed to fail.   From 2000 on, many hit artists (platinum!) couldn't get a follow-up album issued.  Remember Joan Osborne?  Fiona Apple?   Most new deals these days are one-timers anyway.   And while no Xmas LP sells kazilliions, TLOS held its own in what is now a diminished market - not platinum, but respectable.   Which is as good as it gets when even Springsteen and U2's sales are Tank City compared to their prior grosses.  Let's see Mike's solo LP do better.  For all the reasons behind these caprices: Read the revealed word of the Guru Bob Lefsetz.

[Jonathan Blum]

How do you know what 300,000 who bought the album presumably thought?

Stunning reviews are a good start.  Complete lack of outrage outside of hardcore Beach Boys fan circles is another.

While it is not the only indication, what were the sales figures for Brian's two follow-up albums, What I Really Want For Christmas and That Lucky Old Sun? And, were record companies standing in line to sign Brian after BWPS?

Brian's next album of new material was picked up by Capitol Records, the largest company to express interest in a couple of decades, and hit #21 -- doing better than any other Brian solo album, and any Beach Boys album since "15 Big Ones".

So, non-trivial signs of a positive reception in the wake of Smile.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

Brian Wilson Presents Smile is NOT Smile.

Brian Wilson Presents Smile IS Smile.

See?  Other folks can do it too.

Time will eventually show, when a Beach Boys Smile sessions package is finally released (not IF, and if you believe otherwise spare us all the bullmerda and agonizing torture of "RESPECT BRIAN'S WISHES BECAUSE BRIAN DOESN'T WANT THEM OUT!!!!" - "Brian doesn't want them out" my ass; he's just as money-minded as anyone else in the Beach Boys - it's all good timin' ) and the public at large can hear Brian's amazing original recordings AS THEY WERE INTENDED TO SOUND BY BRIAN before the sessions came to their demise, that the studio BWPS is a forgery of the Smile music - dishonest, tasteless, insulting, and, above all, degrading to the Beach Boys and Brian legacy, not to mention THE FANS.

Or, they'll like both.  Just like the fact that huge slabs of the Beach Boys version have been available since the 1993 box set completely failed to get the critics or the public to repudiate the finished Smile.

Oh, and "Time will tell" is the last refuge of the ideologue without a leg to stand on.  I spend a good chunk of my time over in Doctor Who fandom, for obvious reasons -- and when the show came back in 2005 as a hugely popular and beloved award-winning Top 20 hit series, a few die-hards kept insisting that "time will tell", and in a few years once the novelty wore off the world would finally see the new show as this empty style-over-substance trashfest which was so insulting to those fans.  Well...  four years on, and Doctor Who is now a hugely popular and beloved award-winning Top 10 hit series, which last year for the first time ever became the number one show in the country.

Trying to appeal to the judgement of history overlooks that history will be written by the overwhelming majority who loved it.

But of course you can always believe that the revolution's gonna happen the day after tomorrow...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jason]

Jon, we'll have to agree to disagree. I do see where you're coming from with your Doctor Who example.

As far as Smile vs BWPS, I'm a member of the "Smile was a Beach Boys album" train of thought. I enjoy BWPS as a live performance, as I went to see it twice and collected nearly all of the bootlegs looking for little changes - I recall back in '04 some threads talking about people noticing little changes in the vocals in a few songs. And I still feel that BWPS works best in a live context. But I believe that's how it should have remained. A live recording of BWPS, like on the BWPS DVD, or any number of bootlegs, is far more honest. Brian putting the music out there in a palatable form, as something that was supposed to be special - a real GRAND OCCURRENCE in the Beach Boys' saga that we'd never see again in person. If we saw it more than once or even more than twice we were all incredibly privileged. BWPS the album was fun, even for me, for a bit, then the novelty wore off and I was going back to my bootlegs. Plus, Brian's band, however impeccable they are every night, will never replace the Beach Boys for me.

[MBE]

I am importing my post from another recent thread but I think it fits this one enough to repeat it. I thought the use of Asher's lyrics on Good Vibrations was the big mistake. Of course Brian Wilson couldn't make Smile sound as good after 1974 because he lost his voice, and as I have opined before after the early seventies music wasn't recorded as naturally. Yet when I think about how bad it would have been if Joe Thomas or Landy were involved I thank God that the 2004 is as good as it is. It's the best it could be if not nearly what it would have been in 1966.

I stick by that because I just don't think the more eclectic elements of Smile are going to be fully understood by anyone but by a pre 1973 Brian. Meaning one with no brain damage or major personality change. Live or studio I did like what they did here. I am able to do this because I know that the Beach Boys of the sixties and early seventies could blow anyone away. I didn't like how the hype in 2004 downplayed the Beach Boys importance. I understand why Mike would be pissed although again I think he was dumb to sue. The BD doc is the worst offender to me. It doesn't even play original Beach Boys Smile music nor does it contain even have archive interviews with the others. At the end of the day though I am glad to have the record and to have seen the tour. I don't like a lot of the things surrounding Brian since the mid seventies, but hell if I like something musically I like it screw the politics.

[Billgoodman]

lurker's opinion here:

I'm 24 years old (I believe that Brian was that age when producing SMiLE?) and since my early adolescent-years I've been a fan of Smile-boots.
It was under the radar, incredible music with a twist of madness. It was completely mine, nobody that I knew listened to those sessions and I guess nobody even took notice of the fact that there was more to the Beach Boys than Fun in the Sun-hits and Pet Sounds.

Since 2004 that is completely over. More people have heard SMiLE-music than that I could ever imagine. That's the great gift that only a studio-recording of SMiLE could give. It's seems obvious that nothing could even touch the brilliance of the 1966 recordings. But most of the record buying people don't tend to think in 'lost albums', 'bootlegs' and such. Even if they would be available in a legally released box. Heck, they don't even want a live album. Most of them only understand: record (or 'something I can download', but that's another point). Except for the drummer all the people in my band have bought a copy of SMiLE, as do many youngsters in the Netherlands.

We can debate forever about how bad SMiLE 2004 was (IMO it's not that bad at all, some choices were nifty, the sound will not be as dated as BW88 or Imagination) or that it's not the record Brian would have released in 1966. The fact is that he didn't, and music history would have been missing something were it not for the decision to bring SMiLE in 2004 (and I'm sure money was a big motivator). Of course you and I would have been happy with our ProjectSmile or PurpleMix and we would be discussing if With Me Tonight could have been a good part of Vega-tables and circlejerk. We had something to lose: our SMiLE-dream, the way we think SMiLE should be. But most people got a great gift: an introduction to SMiLE. Now let's hope they all will dig deeper and listen to the original tapes.


 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Quote from the Sheriff:
How do you know what 300,000 who bought the album presumably thought? While it is not the only indication, what were the sales figures for Brian's two follow-up albums, What I Really Want For Christmas and That Lucky Old Sun? And, were record companies standing in line to sign Brian after BWPS?

Reply: About the 300,000?  Easy.  I am large.  I contain multitudes.  300K worth if you must know.  All of whom played it a few times then put it in the mp3 playlist mix, along with Pepper, Led Zep II, Guns 'n' Roses, Feist, and T.I., like everyone else does now.  They "tweet" me poisonally to keep me in the know.

Your other examples are false negatives, made irrelevant by the general collapse of the music biz, in which all are doomed to fail.   From 2000 on, many hit artists (platinum!) couldn't get a follow-up album issued.  Remember Joan Osborne?  Fiona Apple?   Most new deals these days are one-timers anyway.   And while no Xmas LP sells kazilliions, TLOS held its own in what is now a diminished market - not platinum, but respectable.   Which is as good as it gets when even Springsteen and U2's sales are Tank City compared to their prior grosses.  Let's see Mike's solo LP do better.  For all the reasons behind these caprices: Read the revealed word of the Guru Bob Lefsetz.

Dr. Tim, you can't have it both ways. You're trying, but you can't. First, YOU use the 300,000+ number to validate BWPS. Then, you go ahead and use the "general collapse of the record biz" as a reason for the non-sales of WIRWFC and TLOS. Really? It wouldn't have anything to do with the public who bought BWPS NOT BEING as thrilled about it as you think. And, you still haven't supplied the SALES FIGURES for WIRWFC and TLOS; I still think they're related to BWPS. Oh, and the comment about Mike Love's solo album doing better; really added a lot to your post....

Jonathan Blum, so BWPS had some "stunning" reviews? Well, it must be great then....

Love-chan, you're almost plagarizing my posts about BWPS. But that's OK, because we're right!