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May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Topic: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session (Read 4342 times)
The Song Of The Grange
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May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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on:
March 07, 2009, 12:07:56 PM »
Has anyone heard a bootleg of this or heard a description of the session. Looks like there were lots of musicians at the session.
Keith Badman calls the session "more an experiment than a full-blown recording but Brian is happy with this try-out and decides to save the song for his next project." How would Badman know this info unless he heard the recording? I would love to think this recording is floating around but I think it probably another case of Badman making conjectures not firmly based in fact.
As all would agree, it would be very informative to witness the song at a very early stage, just barely out of the Pet Sounds era.
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Cam Mott
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #1 on:
March 07, 2009, 12:37:11 PM »
Al Kooper heard it and says it was sort of variations on You Are My Sunshine.
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"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
c-man
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #2 on:
March 07, 2009, 12:46:35 PM »
Quote from: Cam Mott on March 07, 2009, 12:37:11 PM
Al Kooper heard it and says it was sort of variations on You Are My Sunshine.
Really! Wow...where did he say that? THAT would be an interesting read! According to Alan Boyd, the multi-track was taped over, so it no longer exists (so either Kooper heard it back in the day, or a reference dub of it that may still exist). Some folks have implied that part of it still exists as the actual "You Are My Sunshine" from SMiLE, but that seems unlikely to me, as the session contract for May 11th features no string players...
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Cam Mott
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #3 on:
March 07, 2009, 05:19:04 PM »
He's confirmed it in e-mail and it was in his book I believe, which I can't remember the title of at the moment. He heard it back in the day, May 1966, at Brian's home [I hope I remember that right]. David Anderle took him there, so supposedly he heard it too. Is Jonathan Anderle still around?
Here is how it was described: "it was interpolated with 'you are my sunshine'." "IT WAS ACTUALLY JUST A BIZARRE ARRANGEMENT OF SUNSHINE."
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Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 05:44:08 PM by Cam Mott
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #4 on:
March 07, 2009, 07:13:33 PM »
could it be Barnshine? that's about as weird an arrangement as possible
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
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The Song Of The Grange
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #5 on:
March 07, 2009, 07:15:03 PM »
Wow, if this Al Kooper description is accurate than that is very interesting. If Heroes and Villains has origins in Sunshine that puts things in a new light, such as the recording of H&V fade with the Sunshine lyrics sung over top. I wonder if this was the sort of thing Kooper meant by bizarre? Fascinating.
The Al Kooper book: Backstage Passes & Backstabbing Bastards
here is a google link to the passage in question. It looks like it is the early tape, since he mentions that Pet Sounds was just ready for release.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z1qpB1ixDfoC&pg=PA95&dq=inauthor:%22Al+Kooper%22,+heroes+and+villains#PPA95,M1
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Bicyclerider
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #6 on:
March 08, 2009, 12:34:24 PM »
Badman is speculating based on the fact that the session, after completion, was marked as "experimental - do not use." The tape itself, according to Brad Elliott, was used by Brian for home recording and taped over I believe.
I take Kooper's comments to mean You are my sunshine was part of the song - without vocals it would be hard to describe the rest of the song I would think. But it shows that the title and song predate Van Dyke Parks' collaboration with Brian.
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Cam Mott
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #7 on:
March 08, 2009, 02:31:12 PM »
Q: << Was the version of Brian Wilson's "Heroes and Villains" you heard at
Brian's house in May '66 much different than the version that was released as
a 45 and on Smiley Smile or the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations" boxset? >>
Al: "yes-it was interpolated with "you are my sunshine." go figure....."
That now kind of sounds like the familiar H&V might have been interpolated with Sunshine, but his other observation makes it sound like more an arrangement of [an interpolation?] of Sunshine....or something....?
Someone ought to ask Al about making a keyboard recording of his best recollection of what he heard.
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"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
buddhahat
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #8 on:
March 09, 2009, 01:18:18 AM »
I guess I always assumed that Brian pilfered the fade to YAMS to use in H&V (The Barnshine ending) but could it be that Barnshine was merely an original element from H&V when that song contained variations on YAMS as Al Kooper recounts?
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The Song Of The Grange
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #9 on:
March 09, 2009, 09:48:34 PM »
Quote from: buddhahat on March 09, 2009, 01:18:18 AM
I guess I always assumed that Brian pilfered the fade to YAMS to use in H&V (The Barnshine ending) but could it be that Barnshine was merely an original element from H&V when that song contained variations on YAMS as Al Kooper recounts?
It makes me think that Sunshine was a part of that early H&V incarnation, which included I'm In Great Shape and Barnyard. Sunshine, Great Shape, and Barnyard have always kind of swirled around each other. 2 were presented together on BWPS. 2 were demoed together on the Nov 66 H&V piano demo. The Barnshine ending has connections with both Sunshine and H&V. It all seems to point toward Sunshine playing a role in the early version of the song. I wonder when the Barnshine fade was recorded?
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Chris Brown
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #10 on:
March 09, 2009, 09:55:22 PM »
It definitely sounds a lot like "Barnshine" to me, although I have no idea when that was actually recorded.
How cool would it have been to have a fully-realized Heroes in the piano demo sequence and fading with Barnshine? Nobody would have known what to make of that...could have sounded really cool though.
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #11 on:
March 09, 2009, 10:25:51 PM »
Quote from: Chris Brown on March 09, 2009, 09:55:22 PM
It definitely sounds a lot like "Barnshine" to me, although I have no idea when that was actually recorded.
Basic track on November 14, 1966, as Part C of the OMP/YAMS/Barnshine medley, all recorded that day, vocal added on November 30. There's an acetate of this medley. Added to the H&V cantina version in January 1967 and strang enough completely rerecorded with the same arrangement in February 1967.
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buddhahat
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
«
Reply #12 on:
March 10, 2009, 01:00:39 AM »
Quote from: Jasper on March 09, 2009, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Chris Brown on March 09, 2009, 09:55:22 PM
It definitely sounds a lot like "Barnshine" to me, although I have no idea when that was actually recorded.
Basic track on November 14, 1966, as Part C of the OMP/YAMS/Barnshine medley, all recorded that day, vocal added on November 30. There's an acetate of this medley.
Are you saying there's a Brian edit of the sequence OMP/YAMS/Barnshine out there on the boots? Which Boot!!? I'd love to hear how Brian splices Barnshine on to that decending cello 'melt' at the end of YAMS.
Quote from: Jasper on March 09, 2009, 10:25:51 PM
Added to the H&V cantina version in January 1967 and strang enough completely rerecorded with the same arrangement in February 1967.
Did Brian record The Western Theme at the same time? I've always thought that the fade suggested by the title "Prelude to Fade" was False Barnyard, and if Brian re-recorded FB at the same time as Western Theme this might add weight to the theory.
«
Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 01:02:35 AM by buddhahat
»
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buddhahat
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
«
Reply #13 on:
March 10, 2009, 05:41:56 AM »
To answer my own question, I just found this online at
http://smilealbum.tripod.com/barnshine.htm
.
Not sure who is talking here - Lee somebody. Perhaps someone who visits this board?
"To further the comments of my good friend Mr. Hanes, I was approached somewhere around 1995 by a gentleman who wanted to sell an acetate of "The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine" which segued right into the fake "Barnyard" with "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics underneath. The fellow had purchased it, along with another acetate ("Bluebirds Over the Mountain", I believe), from a record dealer, who had obtained them from Shawn Love after Dennis died. He sent me a photcopy of the labels, which I still have somewhere. The "Barnshine" acetate had a plain white label (e.g. no studio markings), with nothing on it except the typed words "MY ONLY SUNSHINE". By that time I already had the vocal version on collector's tapes, plus the fellow wanted a significant sum of money for the acetates (more than aguy paying off the student loans from his MBA could afford!), so I passed on it, and referred him to Peter Reum. I believe Peter went halfies with David Leaf, and they purchased the acetate. From what I understand, David subsequently gave it to Brian Wilson for his personal collection. Since the master tape has supposedly turned up missing, the acetate is likely the best (and possibly only) source for "My Only Sunshine". (Off the subject, but Shawn apparently ended upselling a number of Dennis' acetates after he died; in addition to these two, I know of acetates of "Slip On Through" (mono/stereo), "Slip On Through" (Murry &Carl 3rd mix), "Cabinessence" (stereo 20/20 mix), "San Miguel" (in-progress dub w/o castanets), and "Surf Again" (early version of "Do It Again") that allegedly came from Shawn one way or another. There were probably more...) Lee"
Anyway if this is to be believed, and I don't see why not, then there is indeed an acetate of the 'complete' Old Master Painter that sequences OMP/YAMS/Barnshine, and this acetate is now back where it belongs - with BW himself! I know Peter Reum often visits this board. If he's reading this perhaps he could comment on the acetate. I'd be particularly interested to hear how far into the descending Cello slide Barnshine is spliced i.e. is there as much of that slide as we hear in BWPS, or did Brian splice Barnshine into it fairly quickly? Maybe others here have heard the acetate? This info could be most helpful in making our own fan edits of the song!
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Chris Brown
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #14 on:
March 10, 2009, 01:46:05 PM »
Wow that's some incredible info buddha. I would hope that before giving it back to Brian, Leaf made a safety copy! I would love to hear that.
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The Song Of The Grange
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #15 on:
March 10, 2009, 07:32:11 PM »
I wonder where I'm In Great Shape and Barnyard fit into the OMP/YAMS/Barnshine sequence? I have always reverted to the Nov 66 piano demo that has IIGS going into Barnyard as part of H&V. If You Are My Sunshine is an original H&V piece, it seems like it would be part of what would have been H&V circa Nov 66. Sunshine was recorded together with OMP. It really seems like all these were once one, or are somehow related. I question if there was ever a "Barnyard Suite", I haven't seen many primary sources that mention such a thing. I could be wrong. I think what the "Barnyard Suite" title describes is this clutch of sections mentioned above.
Now, to throw gasoline on the fire--Why does He Give Speeches have the same melody and chords as the Barnshine fade? The vocal melody of the Barnshine/H&V fade seems to be some sort of mutation of the main verse melody of H&V. The fact that it appears on He Gives Speeches is mysterious. It was strong enough of an idea that the melody stuck in the later She's Going Bald incarnation.
I agree with those that suggest that He Gives Speeches seems lyrically related to Wonderful. (The middle section of Smiley Smile Wonderful has the Bicycle Rider theme under the vocal riff from Fade to Vegetables, but that is another tangent!) So what is the Barnshine/He Gives Speeches link? Just melody recycling? It could have been taken from He Gives Speeches and put into the Barnshine fade, and once that version of H&V was abandoned (along with a good chunk of the Smile project), Brian went back to the He Gives Speeches demo and revamped it with Mike Love to make the goofy She's Going Bald. But that really doesn't solve the mystery (imagine that--an unsolved Smile mystery).
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Sheriff John Stone
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #16 on:
March 10, 2009, 07:44:56 PM »
Quote from: buddhahat on March 10, 2009, 05:41:56 AM
"To further the comments of my good friend Mr. Hanes, I was approached somewhere around 1995 by a gentleman who wanted to sell an acetate of "The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine" which segued right into the fake "Barnyard" with "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics underneath.
You know Darian had to have heard all of the configurations. I'm still surprised that fake "Barnyard" didn't make the cut on BWPS. I figured Darian presented it but Brian nixed it.
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Chris Brown
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #17 on:
March 10, 2009, 07:55:01 PM »
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on March 10, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Quote from: buddhahat on March 10, 2009, 05:41:56 AM
"To further the comments of my good friend Mr. Hanes, I was approached somewhere around 1995 by a gentleman who wanted to sell an acetate of "The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine" which segued right into the fake "Barnyard" with "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics underneath.
You know Darian had to have heard all of the configurations. I'm still surprised that fake "Barnyard" didn't make the cut on BWPS. I figured Darian presented it but Brian nixed it.
Either that or it was decided that false "Barnyard" wouldn't fit anywhere because it was intended to be a fade...I can't hear it as a linking type of section.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #18 on:
March 10, 2009, 07:59:09 PM »
Quote from: Chris Brown on March 10, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on March 10, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Quote from: buddhahat on March 10, 2009, 05:41:56 AM
"To further the comments of my good friend Mr. Hanes, I was approached somewhere around 1995 by a gentleman who wanted to sell an acetate of "The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine" which segued right into the fake "Barnyard" with "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics underneath.
You know Darian had to have heard all of the configurations. I'm still surprised that fake "Barnyard" didn't make the cut on BWPS. I figured Darian presented it but Brian nixed it.
Either that or it was decided that false "Barnyard" wouldn't fit anywhere because it was intended to be a fade...I can't hear it as a linking type of section.
Yeah, Chris, I thought about the "fade issue" also. I don't like to think about it, though. All of those great fades that were lost on BWPS....
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Chris Brown
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Re: May 11th 1966 Heroes And Villains Session
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Reply #19 on:
March 10, 2009, 08:27:02 PM »
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on March 10, 2009, 07:59:09 PM
Quote from: Chris Brown on March 10, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on March 10, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Quote from: buddhahat on March 10, 2009, 05:41:56 AM
"To further the comments of my good friend Mr. Hanes, I was approached somewhere around 1995 by a gentleman who wanted to sell an acetate of "The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine" which segued right into the fake "Barnyard" with "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics underneath.
You know Darian had to have heard all of the configurations. I'm still surprised that fake "Barnyard" didn't make the cut on BWPS. I figured Darian presented it but Brian nixed it.
Either that or it was decided that false "Barnyard" wouldn't fit anywhere because it was intended to be a fade...I can't hear it as a linking type of section.
Yeah, Chris, I thought about the "fade issue" also. I don't like to think about it, though. All of those great fades that were lost on BWPS....
Oh trust me, that's a big downer for me too. Brian was the master of the fade, yet they didn't even use them when re-creating his (arguably) best work. Quite tragic.
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