The Mystery of Mike Love in the late 60's

[mikeyj]

That's the thing...I find it hard to blame Loren as much as others do. 

For me, it's not so much blaming him it's just that I don't like the guy.

[the captain]

I think much of the dislike of Daro isn't so much providing the drugs as it is how he seems to think it's hilarious even now. I'd think a person with any sort of conscience or empathy would say "You know, a lot of us were doing it at the time--it was legal, remember. And Brian wanted some, so I gave it to him. It had different effects on different people, but in hindsight, considering Brian's since-diagnosed mental illnesses, it was a tragic mistake." Nope. He laughs. He reminds me of a stupid teenager giggling about what his dumbass friend did when drunk. "Dude, he totally fell down! Hahaha."

[Sheriff John Stone]

I was surprised Loren Schwarz appeared in the documentary anyway. I'm not great with dates, but didn't Loren supply/Brian take the LSD for the first time in late 1964? That's almost two years before Brian began SMiLE. Was it necessary to bring that into the SMiLE picture? I'm not disputing that the LSD affected Brian's psyche - and his composing of music - but weren't the drugs during the SMiLE era, not so much LSD, but mostly marijuana, hashish, and pills? Bill Tobleman, you out there?

[Amy B.]

I think much of the dislike of Daro isn't so much providing the drugs as it is how he seems to think it's hilarious even now. I'd think a person with any sort of conscience or empathy would say "You know, a lot of us were doing it at the time--it was legal, remember. And Brian wanted some, so I gave it to him. It had different effects on different people, but in hindsight, considering Brian's since-diagnosed mental illnesses, it was a tragic mistake." Nope. He laughs. He reminds me of a stupid teenager giggling about what his dumbass friend did when drunk. "Dude, he totally fell down! Hahaha."

That was part of my point. Including him in the doc was valuable because it illuminated the type of person he is. He seems to feel no remorse. Yes, Brian probably would have tried acid anyway, but laughing about the night that he did--considering the role acid played in messing with his mind-- is just sick. And now we know more about Daro, a character in the saga. Not a very nice one.

[MBE]

If there was one person on this earth who should never, ever have been offered acid, it was Brian. Which I why I will despise Loren Schwarz with all my soul until the end of my days. I don't watch the "Beautiful Dreamer" doc because I just know that I'll kick the screen in the instant his smug, sweaty, self-important face appears. To consider it amusing that he was instrumental in instigating the downfall of Brian's creativity...

And undying shame on David Leaf, and Brian's people, for allowing this maggot any screen time.

Amen AGD AMEN!

[MBE]

Yes, Mike was pissed off about getting cheated out of California Girls royalties by Murry.
Yes, Mike grumbled about Pet Sounds, had Hang On To Your Ego changed to I Know There's An Answer. Actually that was his only real gripe other then generally wanting to write more songs. He never has said a word against the album
Yes, he referred to Pet Sounds as "Brian's ego music." Probably not
Yes, he didn't like Tony Asher or VD Parks writing the lyrics and thus getting publishing royalties that he many times used to get.
Yes, he apposed the Smile lyrics, specifically the lyrics to Cabinessence, and over the years it appears that this was a main sticking point in the Smile project.Probably true to a point but he has been known to praise certain tracks. I think Wonderful and even Heroes and Vega-tables
Yes, he didn't want to "foda with the formula."This was a description of his attitude he probably never even said that.
Yes, he didn't like Brian's weird new friends and all the drugs.Good for him

But.

How could the business-minded question Brian's new sound when it had just led to the BBs biggest ever selling single? After the single was a hit you don't hear about any real problems with him

He sang on and helped "produce" Smiley Smile, which royally foda with the formula and had some lyrics that didn't make too much sense (though the most complex VDP lyrics were gone).Like others said he was hipper then what we thought

It is rumored that Love smoked a little pot that summer of 67.He probably did it semi regular from 66-72 or so

Fall of 67 he suddenly got into TM.  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi wasn't exactly the most normal guy.  So michael vosse was too much to handle but the Maharishi and his crew was ok? Winter actually but Tm came from a different place and seemed to encourage productivness. Vosse and all them seemed to want to screw around.

Mike ran off to India and missed most of the Friends sessions, as if he didn't really care what the BBs produced for the next album.  Then he came back and did the song Transcendental Meditation which has some pretty inaccessible lyrics and is far removed from the BBs "formula".  "Over and over the crow flies--uncover the corn field" is out of the question, but "fusion of the never changing wind" is just fine?  So now it was ok to be weird and far-out, but a year ago it wasn't?Well he missed some Friends sessions but not most. He co-wrote a third of it much more then on some albums of the future. Lyrically he understood what he was trying to say because after all he was trying to convey a message.

Overall Mike was pretty hip why he and Brian regressed is hard to say. Endless Summer has a lot to do with that, and in Brian's case drugs of course. Maybe advancing age played a role.

Sheriff I think Brian did LSD in spring 65 the first time. Pot was late 1964.

I don't like Loren he's a leech. Yes I think Brian would have found drugs no matter what, but I think Dargo is a jerk. One last thing needs to be said in as much as Brian and Dennis experimented in the sixties, I wouldn't call them addicts until maybe 1972 for Brian and 1977 for Dennis.

[donald]

Didn't Brian use a lot of amphetamine?   That can trigger mental breaks in those predisposed.   

I think Mike's lack of support or criticism of Brian was only one of several factors contributing to his "break"

[variable2]

*post-edited*

There's enough negativity in the world without internet arguments.

[the captain]

Oh please let this turn into a Tom Cruise "you're glib" moment. PLEASE.

[Cam Mott]

I've talked with Lorren. Brian was hot to try pot and LSD, pestering Lorren about it. Lorren did not think that Brian was emotionally suited to the experimentation and put him off. A new best friend arrived on Brian's scene that had access and did not share Lorren's reservations [not anyone you are probably thinking]. Lorren felt it was better for him, Lorren, to introduce and mentor Brian in these matters if Brian was going to do it anyway. That's the way I remember it. That preceived callousness in the video may be a function of editing more than anything else.

I don't think we are even close to understanding Mike. As AGD said the only thing that killed SMiLE was Brian, he was less and less into as he progressed. No one has ever had this happen to them in creative endeavor? You are on fire and it is going to be great but it never gets great, then it isn't exciting your muse and suddenly you can't stand what you thought you loved about it.

[petsite]

If there was one person on this earth who should never, ever have been offered acid, it was Brian. Which I why I will despise Loren Schwarz with all my soul until the end of my days. I don't watch the "Beautiful Dreamer" doc because I just know that I'll kick the screen in the instant his smug, sweaty, self-important face appears. To consider it amusing that he was instrumental in instigating the downfall of Brian's creativity...

And undying shame on David Leaf, and Brian's people, for allowing this maggot any screen time.

One of my personal "best moments ever" was when I chased Loren off a SMILE web discussion. He was telling everyone that he was Brian's guru and HE was the one the turned Brian into an artist. I said he was Brian's drug pusher, pure and simple. And, as I have said on this forum time and again, except for David Anderle and Van Dyke Parks, the rest of these "best and brightest" be they Vosse, Robbins, Segal, etc,. Man, I would freak out if these leeches were hanging around the leader of my group. These are intellectuals......if you have an IQ of 12. Otherwise, these are idiots. And Loren.....he is arrogant AND stupid. Great combo.

And BTW, what the flock is up with Jack Reily. The more I see him interviewed, the less I understand how he worked for the group. He is another of those "Brain Dead" intellectuals. Another self-important blowhard.

EDIT: People are right. Brian did these drugs, no one forced him. But, for Loren to laugh about it. It's like getting someone drunk and letting him drive and even 20 years on saying "Wow, he was so wasted dude when he hit that tree and killed himself....it was awesome!" Just watching Loren talk.....makes me want to go take a shower.

[The Song Of The Grange]

I know it is unpopular in some circles to defend Mike, but I think (and it seems like some here agree) that he gets too much blame for killing Smile.  Yes, Mike had major reservations about the lyrics, maybe Hang On To Your Ego x 10, but it was Brian who chose to not challenge his band/family and stand by Park's lyrics.  Mike doesn't help is own case by being so pushing and materialistic.

About the drug thing: I think too much of the time we speak of Brian in the 1960's as some sort of helpless child-man, too innocent for this world.  Brian was a real sharp, competitive, ambitions guy in 1965 and 66.  He was just as sharp and world-wise as Dylan or Lennon, maybe with a few more hangups.  No one ever talks about people pushing drugs on Dylan or Lennon.  Anyone who has seen Eat The Document can see that Dylan was out of his mind on drugs in early 66.  He's riding around in a limo with John Lennon, clearly on something he can't handle, pukes in the limo etc.  No one says that Lennon ruined Dylan's innocence, or that Dylan ruined the Beatles innocence when he gave them pot in NYV in 1964.  Dylan, Lennon, Wilson--they knew what they were doing and they did what they felt like doing.  It isn't till after Brian's decline, mentally and physically, that I see him as being exploited and being pushed around.

[Dr. Tim]

Not quarreling with the fact that Dylan was often really "faced" during the 60s, and in portions of Eat The Document.  But he insists that the car footage with John Lennon looks like it does because Dylan was very very carsick, and trying his damnedest not to puke.    Lennon, being Lennon, happily gets up in his grill about it, with his mocking TV advert voice, "Feeling out of sorts lately?"

[donald]

Brian abused himself.  He took a lot of speed and ate himself up to 3oo plus pounds at the same time....not an easy accomplishment.  Brian and how many other young guys with tons of money in the mid to late 60's through early 70's did themselves in with all the drugs money could buy?  I would have to side with ML in that he was watching the self destruction from close up and does not look back on it with fond nostalgia.  

[Amy B.]

About the drug thing: I think too much of the time we speak of Brian in the 1960's as some sort of helpless child-man, too innocent for this world.  Brian was a real sharp, competitive, ambitions guy in 1965 and 66.  He was just as sharp and world-wise as Dylan or Lennon, maybe with a few more hangups. 

I agree with you that Brian was sharp, competitive and ambitious. But there are some aspects to his personality that make it hard for him be lumped with the likes of Lennon, who played up his own worldly-wise image with a tart tongue and plenty of cynicism. Brian didn't have that-- outwardly, anyway. Even Marilyn called Brian child-like, and I think there was a part of him that was maybe in arrested development. He did have an innocent aura around him. You won't find any sarcasm or cynicism in his lyrics, and I haven't heard any in recordings I've heard of him speaking. The other thing is that Brian developed mental illness at some point, so that makes it easier to think that maybe he wasn't in his right mind when he accepted the drugs. But the guys around him didn't know that. Plus, he was also just in with a crowd of people who took drugs, in the 60s, in California. And he was a young guy who wanted new experiences and wanted to try the drugs. Just like the Beatles. From what I hear, Lennon didn't react too well to acid either. Remember the story about how George Martin took him up on the roof for some fresh air? Like Brian, Mike is more complex than he seems. Neither one was a saint or a devil, though I find Brian to be a hell of a lot more likeable, even in tapes from the 60s.

[urbanite]

How old was Brian when he had a nervous breakdown and quit touring?  I wonder if he was under psychiatric care after that episode.

[Chris Brown]

How old was Brian when he had a nervous breakdown and quit touring?  I wonder if he was under psychiatric care after that episode.

The breakdown was in December 1964, which would make Brian 22 at the time.