Paul Mertens

[Mahalo]

His string arrangements and wind contributions have been trademark on BWPS and TLOS. 

He is a integral part of the band but writing parts that BW used to write himself, I guess. How much of the arrangements are Paul's and how much of it are Brian's?

[endofposts]

I'm guessing all of the arrangements are Paul's.  I don't know if Brian ever wrote his own horn and string arrangements even in the old days.  He mostly sang the arrangements to each player, and then they'd adapt them.  I don't know if he has it in him to do that now.  Even when Brian was at his peak, his ideas would sometimes get changed around by other musicians, like adding the mentally handicapped person/slowdown section to "God Only Knows," or the cello triplets to "Good Vibrations."  I think Paul, and even Darian, partly work by thinking/arranging in Brian's style. 

[Wirestone]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

It seems clear that Brian knows some basic music notation, but one doubts he has the technical training to actually do full orchestral arrangements on paper. That takes some serious music education (different ranges for instruments, different keys, differences in playability, etc.)

If you have to have someone do it, I suppose it's good that it's Mertens. But frankly, I've never much liked strings on BW records. (Don't Talk excepted.) They sound odd.

[the captain]

It seems clear that Brian knows some basic music notation, but one doubts he has the technical training to actually do full orchestral arrangements on paper. That takes some serious music education (different ranges for instruments, different keys, differences in playability, etc.)

Exactly. It's not that he doesn't have the musical ability to muddle through it and eventually get it done, but there is no way he's fluent in that art/science. When you tell the alto sax to play a certain note and the pitch you hear is a minor third off what you're expecting, it throws you for a loop: the transpositions alone would have caused him a horrible time.

[Chris Brown]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

That's still arranging though...it doesn't matter who ultimately put it on paper.

[the captain]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

That's still arranging though...it doesn't matter who ultimately put it on paper.

If it is being written on paper an the paper is going to be read, it matters tremendously (unless he's doing a lot more than singing the lines).

[Chris Brown]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

That's still arranging though...it doesn't matter who ultimately put it on paper.

If it is being written on paper an the paper is going to be read, it matters tremendously (unless he's doing a lot more than singing the lines).

I guess I don't see why the distinction matters...arrangements are no more or less valuable if they are written down, unless someone is trying to replicate them later, I suppose, but even then a good ear can be just as useful.  If Brian told string and horn players what to play and how to play it, he's the arranger, despite not putting pen to paper.

[variable2]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

That's still arranging though...it doesn't matter who ultimately put it on paper.

If it is being written on paper an the paper is going to be read, it matters tremendously (unless he's doing a lot more than singing the lines).

I guess I don't see why the distinction matters...arrangements are no more or less valuable if they are written down, unless someone is trying to replicate them later, I suppose, but even then a good ear can be just as useful.  If Brian told string and horn players what to play and how to play it, he's the arranger, despite not putting pen to paper.

Yeah, I think he's right.. someone who ONLY writes other peoples notes down is a transcriber and/or an orchestrator

[the captain]

Yeah, even the string players in "Don't Talk" said that Brian merely sang the lines to them -- like he would sing vocal lines to the BBs, and they had to have someone notate it.

That's still arranging though...it doesn't matter who ultimately put it on paper.

If it is being written on paper an the paper is going to be read, it matters tremendously (unless he's doing a lot more than singing the lines).

I guess I don't see why the distinction matters...arrangements are no more or less valuable if they are written down, unless someone is trying to replicate them later, I suppose, but even then a good ear can be just as useful.  If Brian told string and horn players what to play and how to play it, he's the arranger, despite not putting pen to paper.

That's why (see bolding). Nobody's knocking what BW did. I'm just adding to what you said (it doesn't matter...), that it DOES matter. You can surely arrange without paper, but if you're putting it on paper with the intention of using the paper in any time other than the immediate future, it matters a lot. That conversation was meant as bigger than Brian telling parts to players. Sorry if that aspect of the point wasn't obvious.

[the captain]

Yeah, I think he's right.. someone who ONLY writes other peoples notes down is a transcriber and/or an orchestrator

An orchestrator is an arranger (for orchestras). A transcriber is something altogether different, and yes, is more like what you're thinking. But it's not what I was talking about at all.

[variable2]

Yeah, I think he's right.. someone who ONLY writes other peoples notes down is a transcriber and/or an orchestrator

An orchestrator is an arranger (for orchestras). A transcriber is something altogether different, and yes, is more like what you're thinking. But it's not what I was talking about at all.

an orchestrator doesn't necessarily compose the music. like people who write the music for review style vegas shows.. they take music from already written broadway shows and write it out for a different enemble. anywho.... 

[the captain]

I didn't say an orchestrator composes music. I said an orchestrator was an arranger for orchestra, which it is. An arranger doesn't necessarily compose music either, you know...

[TdHabib]

Did Mertens do the arrangements when PS was toured with a full orchestra?

[Wirestone]

Indeed he did. I think that was when Brian's people first realized Mertens could do that.

[Wirestone]

And this ability to write things down so they can be faithfully reproduced is really the point. Brian has access to his band on tours, in person, etc. He can teach them what to play one-on-one. (Or they can intuit it, as the case may be). But with string and horn sections (and with the economics of today being what they are), it's important that they be able to come in, play what's on a piece of paper, and be done. Mertens can produce those arrangements.

Let's not forget, Brian did this in the 60s, too. "Lonely Sea," for instance. And the Christmas album. In each case, he employed professional string arrangers to create the fuller sound. (Not to mention the big band album in the 70s.) He has control of the basic track, and often a few important accents. But he's keenly aware of the stuff he can't do -- and he isn't ashamed to bring in others who can.

[endofposts]

And this ability to write things down so they can be faithfully reproduced is really the point. Brian has access to his band on tours, in person, etc. He can teach them what to play one-on-one. (Or they can intuit it, as the case may be). But with string and horn sections (and with the economics of today being what they are), it's important that they be able to come in, play what's on a piece of paper, and be done. Mertens can produce those arrangements.

Let's not forget, Brian did this in the 60s, too. "Lonely Sea," for instance. And the Christmas album. In each case, he employed professional string arrangers to create the fuller sound. (Not to mention the big band album in the 70s.) He has control of the basic track, and often a few important accents. But he's keenly aware of the stuff he can't do -- and he isn't ashamed to bring in others who can.

He employed Dick Reynolds on the Christmas album, and took arranging lessons from him.  The result of the arranging lessons was "Three Blind Mice" (or at least that's the title, it's not really "Three Blind Mice").  Considering how short that piece is, and relatively repetitive, that shows what his abilities were at that time.  Though it is a cool little piece of music for what it is.  I'm sure some of that knowledge carried over later when he did "Pet Sounds."  It's just that players do require notation if they are to play together.  Somebody would write it down and make Xerox copies for all the players.  I read that somewhere, maybe in Hal Blaine's autobiography.

[Sam_BFC]

I would imagine that Paul Mertens did pretty much all the orchestration for TLOS, whereas for BWPS they were based on Brian's original arrangements(?)

[Jim McShane]

I would imagine that Paul Mertens did pretty much all the orchestration for TLOS, whereas for BWPS they were based on Brian's original arrangements(?)

The BW and band member interview on NPR would seem to confirm that, and it at least implies that Paul wrote some of it.

Scott commented on how they sent song snippets or such to Paul, and he sent back his interpretation of what Brian wanted. Paul said Brian gave him direction as to the feel/feelings/mood he wanted and Paul apparently took it from there.

I would like to hear (as Scott suggested) just the instrumental tracks to TLOS. There is some remarkable stuff in there that's hard to make out.

[Jim McShane]

Indeed he did. I think that was when Brian's people first realized Mertens could do that.

Paul did much of the orchestration for the Pet Sounds performances as well.

[Mr. Cohen]

It's interesting that Brian's technique of humming or singing parts to band members was actually advocated by Raymond Scott, another distinctive arranger that preceded Brian in the 20th century. Even his editing style was the same. From Wikipedia:

He called this musical style "descriptive jazz," and gave his works unusual titles like "New Year's Eve in a Haunted House," "Dinner Music for a Pack of Hungry Cannibals" (recorded by the Kronos Quartet in 1993), and "Bumpy Weather Over Newark." .... Scott believed strongly in composing and playing by ear (quote: "You give a better performance if you skip the eyes"). He composed not on paper, but "on his band" — by humming phrases to his sidemen, or by demonstrating riffs and rhythms on the keyboard and instructing players to interpret his cues. It was all done by ear, with no written scores (a process known as "head arrangements"). Scott, who was also a savvy sound engineer, recorded the band's rehearsals on discs and used the recordings as references to develop his compositions. He would rework, resequence, or delete passages, or add themes from other discs to construct finished works. During the developmental process, his players were allowed to improvise, but once complete, the piece became relatively fixed, with little further improvisation permitted — a practice that alienated some jazz purists and critics.

Raymond Scott was a highly respected arranger/songwriter, his work being most famously used in Warner Bros. cartoons like Bugs Bunny, some of which Brian was probably watching (he was a fan) during his producing peak in the 60s. Brian probably didn't know that much about Scott's arranging style, though, but it's still interesting how he wound up being drawn to the music of likeminded people without even realizing it (or maybe he had heard about Scott?). For comparison's sake, here's a performance of "Old Man River" conducted by Scott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HL5oImiM0. He had a great ear for music, too.