Brian's Modular Recording techniques: some questions on the subject

[c-man]

That idea would hold up better if every note were perfect.    But he was splicing tape before GV. Unless I'm mistaken, he was already doing it for instrumental tracks of verses and choruses of earlier songs just to simplify the process: once you have a good take of the verse, you can just copy and use it again for the background of the second verse.

No, he didn't employ that technique until "Good Vibrations"/SMiLE/Smiley Smile/Wild Honey.  And the track for "California Girls", which someone asked about further down the thread, was one complete recording, including the intro...which the main reason it took 44 takes to perfect.  The intro to "Im So Young" was indeed recorded seperately & edited on...as was the tag at the end.  Another thing Brian sometimes did was punch-ins of individual vocal lines...not often, but definitely on "Kiss Me Baby".

See www.beachboysarchives.com for more details...

[c-man]

I wasn't sure which came first, but I wasn't necessarily referring to the song Vege-Tables, maybe Zappa had heard of Brian's fascination with Vegetables from an interview or something. Otherwise it could just be a reference to the hippie scene, tree-huggers loving their vegetables. Or not related to that scene at all. 

I didn't say the songs were similar musically... I took it as Zappa making fun of someone like Brian.

And if anyone is interested... here are a few other beach boys/zappa links...
- Gail Zappa was seeing BW at some stage
- Van Dyke was briefly a part of the Mothers of Invention (for about four months)
found these and more http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14207&sid=1c5389fbd95b74d3cca6da407846309d not sure if you will need to sign up to view that link though.

Other connections:  Steve Desper mixed Zappa on the road for awhile.  And some members of The Boys' early '70s touring horn section (like Sal Marquez, I believe) were Zappa alumni. 

[mikeyj]

And some members of The Boys' early '70s touring horn section (like Sal Marquez, I believe) were Zappa alumni. 

Is Sal Marquez the one playing the flute on "Forever" at that gig in New York in 71 (I think that's the one)?

[Bicyclerider]

Isn't  the more fleshed out version of DYDW from the Vigotone boot a Zappa-related recording? The version of worms I speek of is distorted with a bunch more vox. Anyone?

That was Ant Bee, which was a group with some ex Mothers in it - not sure who though.

The use of "vegetables" was VERY different between Zappa and Brian - Zappa was using it as a derogatory term for straight America.  Brian . . . well he really LIKED vegetables, and was literal in his use of the term.

[the captain]

That idea would hold up better if every note were perfect.    But he was splicing tape before GV. Unless I'm mistaken, he was already doing it for instrumental tracks of verses and choruses of earlier songs just to simplify the process: once you have a good take of the verse, you can just copy and use it again for the background of the second verse.

No, he didn't employ that technique until "Good Vibrations"/SMiLE/Smiley Smile/Wild Honey.  And the track for "California Girls", which someone asked about further down the thread, was one complete recording, including the intro...which the main reason it took 44 takes to perfect.  The intro to "Im So Young" was indeed recorded seperately & edited on...as was the tag at the end.  Another thing Brian sometimes did was punch-ins of individual vocal lines...not often, but definitely on "Kiss Me Baby".

See www.beachboysarchives.com for more details...

Nope, I'll take your word on it. I don't care nearly enough to research it. Thank gods for people like you who do, though!

[The Song Of The Grange]

Great info here.  I think what sets brian's tape editing technique apart was his use of it as a compositional devise, it became as useful as an instrument.  It was so fully Integrated into his process.  It allowed him to go where ever the hell he wanted to go within a song.  Look at Cabinessence, arguable the greatest example of the technique in practice.  The sudden switch between verse and chorus nearly gives you whiplash!  It goes to a whole other place sonically, and also literally goes to a different place in time--another day, maybe another studio, maybe some different players.  It is an effect that I believe wasn't fully achieved again until the two turntables and a mixer concept arrived in the 70's.  I'd say that even the guys down in Jamaica inventing dub didn't even fully realize the potential for editing the way Brian did in 66-67.  Theirs was more of a recycling of pre-existing recordings with new effects and vocals put on top.  I have always found it interesting how Brian used the tape echo feedback very similar to King Tubby or Lee Scratch Perry--that sudden escalating wash of tape feedback.  Heroes and Villains Cantina version and I'm In Great Shape are good examples.  Also, the Smiley Smile version of Wind Chimes has a pretty crazy dub-like noise in the middle of it.  You can hear Brian on a test mix of Vegetables adding a pretty dub-like reverb/echo to the last words of certain verses. 

I don't mean to imply that there is any influence between Brian and the guys in Jamaica, but it is interesting to see these post-modern techniques springing up in different places.  I can't wait to hear Zappa's Lumpy Gravy--I've got it coming in the mail.  It might get me changing my Smile mix!

[the captain]

Lumpy Gravy is brilliant. It and We're Only In It For the Money are absolutely wonderful. (And if you're interested in this heavy editing, you're going to get it.)

[Bill Tobelman]

I think that the modular recording style was due to the spiritual/religious event that sparked SMiLE. It was after this trip that Brian started recoding in modular fashion.

It may have to do with Brian looking for meaning in a variety of events that needed further consideration. By jumping from thought to thought the modular form started to take shape.

Then, because such modular thoughts resulted in the ultimate religious experience, the modular form seemed surely capable of prompting such an experience for record listeners as well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Um, what about "Good Vibrations", the definitive modular recording, which sessions preceded Smile by a good two months ? (I'm ignoring the February & April sessions as they were essentially non-modular)

[The Song Of The Grange]

Um, what about "Good Vibrations", the definitive modular recording, which sessions preceded Smile by a good two months ? (I'm ignoring the February & April sessions as they were essentially non-modular)

Yes, I must agree.  Good Vibrations is the ultimate modular recording, and the best production by anyone in the 1960's in my opinion. GV trumps Cabinessence.  The rank of Brian's best modular recordings probably goes something like:

Good Vibrations
Cabinessence
Heroes and Villains (Cantina version)
Heroes and Villaiins (45 version)
Vegatables (box set version, even if the fade is tacked on)
Wind Chimes (box set version)
Do You Like Worms (box set version if you edit in Bicycle Rider lyrics)

Heroes and Villains part 2 would have been an amazing modular recording if it had been finished and released.  Same with the 1966 Surf's Up.

[Bicyclerider]

I"m not sure what your ranking is indicating - are you ranking them in terms of best modular songs, or in the order of MOST modular songs?  I'd rank the most modular songs as follows:

Heroes and Villains (cantina)
Good Vibrations
Heroes and Villains (single)
Vegetables (box set)
Wind Chimes (boxset)
Cabinessence
She's goin Bald
Child (Brian 3 minute Smile mono mix)
Wind Chimes (Smiley)
Little Pad
A Thing or Two
Here Comes the Night

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew said with regard my comment that the modular form was due to Brian's spiritual/religious experience;

"Um, what about "Good Vibrations", the definitive modular recording, which sessions preceded Smile by a good two months ? (I'm ignoring the February & April sessions as they were essentially non-modular)."

"Good Vibrations" was post Brian's spiritual experience. Basically after Brian's religious experience came the "Heroes And Villains" trial sessions and then the modular "GV" sessions (good of you to point out the non-modular Pet Sounds takes).

I was told that the Pet Sounds promo film shot in the mountains was "Big Sur," which seems to tie the spiritual experience to late April, 1966.

[Bill Tobelman]

I said;

I was told that the Pet Sounds promo film shot in the mountains was "Big Sur," which seems to tie the spiritual experience to late April, 1966.

I was talking to a big Beach Boys fan about the Pet Sounds promo movie shot in the woods. The fan said that the BB experts had determined that the visit to the mountains to shoot the promo film was what David Anderle was describing when he laid out Brian's "Big Sur" adventure to Paul Williams of Crawdaddy. Since Anderle's "Big Sur" description seems very likely to be Brian's ultimate religious/spiritual experience then it can be inferred that Brian's special event likely ocurred where the Pets Sounds promo film was shot, or there abouts.

[The Song Of The Grange]

I"m not sure what your ranking is indicating - are you ranking them in terms of best modular songs, or in the order of MOST modular songs?  I'd rank the most modular songs as follows:

Heroes and Villains (cantina)
Good Vibrations
Heroes and Villains (single)
Vegetables (box set)
Wind Chimes (boxset)
Cabinessence
She's goin Bald
Child (Brian 3 minute Smile mono mix)
Wind Chimes (Smiley)
Little Pad
A Thing or Two
Here Comes the Night

A great list.  Was there any modular recording done for Friends, or was it over by then?  By the time of Wild Honey the modular style seems to become less obvious.  Sometimes I forget that those Wild Honey tracks were done in pieces too.

[Jason]

Brian was recording in a modular style until at least 1969...Ol' Man River, Walk On By come to mind. Maybe even Soulful Old Man Sunshine could be considered such.

[Bill Tobelman]

The other way to arrive at the same conclusion (about the modular style happening after the religious/spiritual experience) is throughBrian's autobiography. The book states that Brian envisioned the elaborate production of "GV" during his ultimate LSD trip.

Pet Sounds wasn't recorded in the modular style (nor were it's "GV" sessions). In May of '66 the modular style happened.

[mikeyj]

I think you mean:

Brian's autobiography

[Bill Tobelman]

Another thing that gives off a strong hint that "GV" is part of Brian's new SPIRITUAL direction are his comments in the Tom Nolan article.

Brian lets it be known that "GV," while it still has old traditional style boy/girl lyrics (remember Van Dyke had declined the lyric job on "GV" but HE WAS ASKED),  is "definitely a start" in Brian's new spiritual direction.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Another thing that gives off a strong hint that "GV" is part of Brian's new SPIRITUAL direction are his comments in the Tom Nolan article.

Brian lets it be known that "GV," while it still has old traditional style boy/girl lyrics (remember Van Dyke had declined the lyric job on "GV" but HE WAS ASKED),  is "definitely a start" in Brian's new spiritual direction.

I have come to understand the spiritual, at least in part, referred to the difference between social music (music for dancing such as most of the BBs output 61-65) and reverential music, music to sit and listen to, music to pray to, as Brian told andrew loog oldham.

I wonder how Heroes and Villains fit into his new spiritual direction?  Where is a good source to read the Tom Nolan article?  Is that in Look Listen Vibrate Smile?

[Bill Tobelman]

The Tom Nolan article is in LLVS. It's the article w/the Zappa picture. It's called "Pop's New Frontier" or something like that from some Los Angeles Weekly newspaper, or something similar.

You said;

I have come to understand the spiritual, at least in part, referred to the difference between social music (music for dancing such as most of the BBs output 61-65) and reverential music, music to sit and listen to, music to pray to, as Brian told andrew loog oldham.

You're supposed to look, listen, vibrate, smile!

The "my children were raised.." bit, I swear, is about the "children of God"(Brian's expression), AKA "the beautiful people," AKA the "flower children," AKA freaks, hippies, etc. The vocal section entitled"soul becomes beautiful" gives one such an indication. The "suddenly rise" reference would then have to do with "sudden enlightenment" or the speed at which the change occurs.

[Bill Tobelman]

Another way to realize that the modular "Good Vibrations" and SMiLE are both on the same wavelength (pun intended) is by viewing the Brian directed firehouse promo film for "GV." "GV" and SMiLE aren't separate events but rather co-current events judging by the film.

The way to connect the "GV" promo to the spiritual/religious theme of SMiLE is through Brian's personal LSD experiences. His 2nd trip (in the "autobiography") has Brian in an apartment seeing firemen falling down & getting hurt. In the "GV" promo film you can see the firemen Beach Boys split from the apartment running & doing it up in Keystone Cops style. Brian's spiritual 3rd LSD trip must have put a positive spin on the ego-death scene of Bri's 2nd trip (must likely via a positive ego-death outcome this time around). In any case it seems to all go together, "GV" & SMiLE.

[variable2]

The Tom Nolan article is in LLVS. It's the article w/the Zappa picture. It's called "Pop's New Frontier" or something like that from some Los Angeles Weekly newspaper, or something similar.

You said;

I have come to understand the spiritual, at least in part, referred to the difference between social music (music for dancing such as most of the BBs output 61-65) and reverential music, music to sit and listen to, music to pray to, as Brian told andrew loog oldham.

You're supposed to look, listen, vibrate, smile!

The "my children were raised.." bit, I swear, is about the "children of God"(Brian's expression), AKA "the beautiful people," AKA the "flower children," AKA freaks, hippies, etc. The vocal section entitled"soul becomes beautiful" gives one such an indication. The "suddenly rise" reference would then have to do with "sudden enlightenment" or the speed at which the change occurs.

Just my humble opinion, but I think you guys are maybe being a bit too nitty gritty with the spiritual interpretation of Brian's music.  I believe (and I'm pretty sure Brian thinks this way from things I've read) that sound, and especially music, is inherently spiritual. So maybe some of the lyrics have some references buried in them, but I think the idea that the Smile music is "spiritual music" (at least on things less overtly "religious", like Heroes and Villains) has more to do with Brian's relationship to the music and how it affects him(and other people).. not so much the content of the lyrics

[Bill Tobelman]

No doubt.

While Brian does indeed often note the spiritual quality of his music overall, an accurate account of his history does show SMiLE to be when there was a spike in singular spiritual focus.

Read Brian's quotes from the SMiLE era & compare them to any other part of his career. Do it honestly & accurately. Remember that after the SMiLE era Brian was automatically spiritualized. Stuff that follows SMiLE automatically is going to have the spiritual bent due to Brian's heightened awareness of such things. Write down all religious/spiritual comments from day one & see if SMiLE doesn't seem to be when all this spiritual stuff went public in a big way.

[Loaf]

Bill, I completely agree with you. Once Brian became 'spiritualized' it permeated nearly everything he did for the next few years.

Is there an article or part of a book that details Brian's spiritual realisations in detail? And how does this timescale fit in with Lake Arrowhead? I seem to recall a thread on here about Brian's whole vision for Smile coming together, or being realised, at Lake Arrowhead?

I think this subject is fascinating and underpins what makes Smile (and what followed) so special.

[grillo]

And how does this timescale fit in with Lake Arrowhead? I seem to recall a thread on here about Brian's whole vision for Smile coming together, or being realised, at Lake Arrowhead?

I think this subject is fascinating and underpins what makes Smile (and what followed) so special.

I only dimly remember a Lake Arrowhead story. Is that where they took all those photos with Brian in the yellow shirt and Denny with the blue and white one?