Ten Years Of Harmony - Please help!

[the captain]

I half-agree with you. KTSA was the end of them doing rock, but BB85 was their last non-oldie band album (with a couple of exceptions), as it tried to swing too far the other way.

I disagree with that. In a lot of ways I think 85 was among their most oldies albums. True, the production was more modern, but the songs were really very backward-facing. It was more a "we old guys can still keep up ... as we do our old thing" than a real new album.

In a way (sorry for derailing a big further), I feel like Holland is the end of them as a new band, with Love You and LA as either exceptions while the band was trying to find its next course.

[Bicyclerider]

Forever is on there, isn't it?  But yeah, how about Baby Blue or Only With You?

No, Forever isn't on there!  Which is a freakin' crime! 

I understand why roller Skatin' Child, She's Got Rhythm, Sea Cruise (which I love) are on there - the collection needs some uptempo songs, it would be lacking and not flow well if the selections were all ballads and mid tempo numbers, as good as Baby Blue and Night was So Young are.  I just wish Bruce had been able to follow through with a Smile suite (legal problems there - that was still Capitol owned recordings), We Got Love (Brother probably didn't want to give away song royalties to the exmembers), and Child of Winter on there.

[Jon Stebbins]

Not a single Dennis song on Best of the Brother Years 3. I thought that was so obviously wrong and mean spirited. No Slip on Through, Forever, Its About Time, Cuddle Up, Only With You, Baby Blue...how do you call it the BEST of the Brother Years and leave off every one of those songs? Please explain it to me.

[c-man]

Forever is on there, isn't it?  But yeah, how about Baby Blue or Only With You?

No, Forever isn't on there!  Which is a freakin' crime! 

I understand why roller Skatin' Child, She's Got Rhythm, Sea Cruise (which I love) are on there - the collection needs some uptempo songs, it would be lacking and not flow well if the selections were all ballads and mid tempo numbers, as good as Baby Blue and Night was So Young are.  I just wish Bruce had been able to follow through with a Smile suite (legal problems there - that was still Capitol owned recordings), We Got Love (Brother probably didn't want to give away song royalties to the exmembers), and Child of Winter on there.

I guess Forever ISN'T on there...I'll be darned, I coulda sworn it was!  Well it SHOULDA been...really, it shoulda been there instead of "River Song"...always thought it odd that one solo track was included.

Anyway, Capitol didn't own the SMiLE stuff, or any of the BB post-'65 album stuff...remember how Warners repackaged all the stuff from '66-'69, and was planning on releasing SMiLE in '72?  That's cause the BBs owned the masters, and were able to lease them to Warners, much in the way the Warners stuff was able to be leased to CBS for TYOH in '81.  In the case of "The Lord's Prayer", it was owned outright by Capitol, but Bruce had hoped to lease it back for TYOH.

[c-man]

Not a single Dennis song on Best of the Brother Years 3. I thought that was so obviously wrong and mean spirited. No Slip on Through, Forever, Its About Time, Cuddle Up, Only With You, Baby Blue...how do you call it the BEST of the Brother Years and leave off every one of those songs? Please explain it to me.

Because Dennis' estate had sold their interest in Brother Records to the other members, and because Carl was no longer there to see to it that Dennis got represented (as he did on the 1993 box set).  Right Jon?

[punkinhead]

I figured they just picked the songs for Vol. of what charted, thus why Honkin Down the highway was the song that represented Love You, which to me, the Night was So Young.

[MBE]

Not a single Dennis song on Best of the Brother Years 3. I thought that was so obviously wrong and mean spirited. No Slip on Through, Forever, Its About Time, Cuddle Up, Only With You, Baby Blue...how do you call it the BEST of the Brother Years and leave off every one of those songs? Please explain it to me.

Because Dennis' estate had sold their interest in Brother Records to the other members, and because Carl was no longer there to see to it that Dennis got represented (as he did on the 1993 box set).  Right Jon?

It was Brad's doing. He even said so in an interview.

[c-man]

Not a single Dennis song on Best of the Brother Years 3. I thought that was so obviously wrong and mean spirited. No Slip on Through, Forever, Its About Time, Cuddle Up, Only With You, Baby Blue...how do you call it the BEST of the Brother Years and leave off every one of those songs? Please explain it to me.

Because Dennis' estate had sold their interest in Brother Records to the other members, and because Carl was no longer there to see to it that Dennis got represented (as he did on the 1993 box set).  Right Jon?

It was Brad's doing. He even said so in an interview.

How did he explain this?

[MBE]

I think it was in ESQ. He said it didn't connect with the public or the Beach Boys image. What a joke

[donald]

My curiosity is aroused by this discussion.  Think I'll get out the vinyl and have a listen.


Regarding the improved performances on Carl's return, I totally agree.  I saw a couple of shows just before his departure, one during his absence, and one not too long after his return.

Dramatically different and a treat to hear and see.   The one without Carl, Brian "performed", and I use that term because you can put your own spin on it if you like.  Mike gave what sounded like a sarcastic introduction to Brian and a very large, hygiene challenged Brian then croaked out 3 tunes on the baby grand.  A very sad and disappointing show.

Carl's return was like putting a new big block in a worn out Corvette.  What a ride!!

[Bicyclerider]

Not a single Dennis song on Best of the Brother Years 3. I thought that was so obviously wrong and mean spirited. No Slip on Through, Forever, Its About Time, Cuddle Up, Only With You, Baby Blue...how do you call it the BEST of the Brother Years and leave off every one of those songs? Please explain it to me.

Because Dennis' estate had sold their interest in Brother Records to the other members, and because Carl was no longer there to see to it that Dennis got represented (as he did on the 1993 box set).  Right Jon?

It was Brad's doing. He even said so in an interview.

How did he explain this?

I remember Brad trying to explain that they wanted to include only CHARTING singles, and apparently none of Dennis's songs, despite several being released as singles, charted.  But then why call it Best of the Brother Years?  (although I think it was also called Greatest Hits Vol. 3 somewhere wasn't it?)  None of the songs on Best of the Brother Years was a big hit, so they should have just done a "best" collection.

I thought Sound of Free, released as a single in the UK should have been included - a great way to include a rarity yet to be officially released on CD.  Brad subscribed to the "Dennis's music wasn't commercial and didn't and won't sell" theory that has since been disproved and finally buried with the CD release of Pacific Ocean blue/Bambu.

[Desmond Jones]

Brad subscribed to the "Dennis's music wasn't commercial and didn't and won't sell" theory

Having personally heard Brad hold forth on the greatness of Dennis' music, especially Pacific Ocean Blue, I think that's a bunch of malarky!

If I remember correctly (and the old brain cells may not be functioning as well as I'd like), that Brother Years set started out as the third volume in the Greatest Hits series of CDs, with a track lineup that focused almost entirely on charting singles, including things like "It's Getting Late," "Rock 'n' Roll To The Rescue" and "Still Cruisin'." (My memory also says the token "rare" track on the set was the 45 edit of "Cool Cool Water," but I won't swear to that.)  Then the suits at Capitol got to playing with the set, dropping songs right and left in favor of non-charting tracks likes "Susie Cincinnati," "Disney Girls," "Trader" and "Honkin' Down The Highway," and even retitling the thing.

In the original conception (charting singles), none of Dennis' songs fit.  By the time the album was released, there was no real concept behind it, other than to put out a collection of songs that a bunch of higher-ups at Capitol personally liked.  I think the entire team on that project -- Brad, Andrew Sandoval and Cheryl whatever-her-last-name-is (she was on staff at Capitol) -- was immensely frustrated by the time it came out.  If, from the outset, the album had been designed as a true "Best of the Brother Years," I feel certain they would have included several Dennis tracks, probably "Forever" and maybe something like "Baby Blue."

Somewhere I think I've got the original track lineup for Greatest Hits 3 that Brad sent me lo those many years ago.  I'll look for it and post it if I can find it.

[Desmond Jones]

Pawelski, that was her last name. Cheryl Pawelski.

It was gonna drive me crazy not being able to remember it, so I pulled out a CD to check it.  I just googled her, and it looks like she's now at Rhino/Warner Bros.

[Desmond Jones]

Wow! Sometimes I amaze myself! An hour of digging and I found it!

This is the original planned track lineup for Greatest Hits 3, exactly as sent to me by Brad Elliott in October 1999 (some six months or so before the album came out).

1. Add Some Music to Your Day [#64] (1970)
2. Cool Cool Water [non-charting 45] (1970) (single edit – never before on CD)
3. Long Promised Road [#89] (1971)
4. ‘Til I Die [B-side] (1971)
5. Surf’s Up [non-charting 45] (1971)
6. Marcella [#110] (1972)
7. Sail On Sailor [#79/#49] (1973, 1975)
8. California Saga (On My Way to Sunny Californ-i-a) [#84] (1973) (single version – domestically unavailable on CD)
9. Rock and Roll Music [#5] (1976) (single version – domestically unavailable on CD)
10. It’s O.K. [#29] (1976)
11. Peggy Sue [#59] (1978)
12. Here Comes the Night [#44] (1979) (single edit – never before on CD)
13. Good Timin’ [#40] (1979)
14. Goin’ On [#83] (1980)
15. Come Go With Me [#18] (1981)
16. Getcha Back [#26] (1985)
17. It’s Gettin’ Late [#82] (1985)
18. Rock ‘n’ Roll to the Rescue [#68] (1986) (single version – currently unavailable on CD)
19. California Dreamin’ [#57] (1986) (currently unavailable on CD)
20. Still Cruisin’ [#93] (1989)

All charting singles, with three exceptions: "Til I Die" and "Surf's Up," which I don't think anybody would argue should have been left off, and "Cool Cool Water," which obviously was the rare track come-on for the hardcore collectors. With this concept and lineup, I think it's easy to see why none of Dennis' stuff was included.

[Jon Stebbins]

Wow! Sometimes I amaze myself! An hour of digging and I found it!

This is the original planned track lineup for Greatest Hits 3, exactly as sent to me by Brad Elliott in October 1999 (some six months or so before the album came out).

1. Add Some Music to Your Day [#64] (1970)
2. Cool Cool Water [non-charting 45] (1970) (single edit – never before on CD)
3. Long Promised Road [#89] (1971)
4. ‘Til I Die [B-side] (1971)
5. Surf’s Up [non-charting 45] (1971)
6. Marcella [#110] (1972)
7. Sail On Sailor [#79/#49] (1973, 1975)
8. California Saga (On My Way to Sunny Californ-i-a) [#84] (1973) (single version – domestically unavailable on CD)
9. Rock and Roll Music [#5] (1976) (single version – domestically unavailable on CD)
10. It’s O.K. [#29] (1976)
11. Peggy Sue [#59] (1978)
12. Here Comes the Night [#44] (1979) (single edit – never before on CD)
13. Good Timin’ [#40] (1979)
14. Goin’ On [#83] (1980)
15. Come Go With Me [#18] (1981)
16. Getcha Back [#26] (1985)
17. It’s Gettin’ Late [#82] (1985)
18. Rock ‘n’ Roll to the Rescue [#68] (1986) (single version – currently unavailable on CD)
19. California Dreamin’ [#57] (1986) (currently unavailable on CD)
20. Still Cruisin’ [#93] (1989)

All charting singles, with three exceptions: "Til I Die" and "Surf's Up," which I don't think anybody would argue should have been left off, and "Cool Cool Water," which obviously was the rare track come-on for the hardcore collectors. With this concept and lineup, I think it's easy to see why none of Dennis' stuff was included.

Easy for you maybe, but not for me. If they can make an exception for Till I Die they can make one for Forever, or Baby Blue, or Cuddle Up. But Dennis never wrote an 'in song...ya know...Timin', Goin, Gettin', Dreamin', Cruisin'...maybe that was the problem.

[Desmond Jones]

Dennis never wrote an 'in song...ya know...Timin', Goin, Gettin', Dreamin', Cruisin'...maybe that was the problem.

Maybe he should have titled it "Slippin' On Through."  And there was "Fallin' In Love," of course. 

[Aegir]

Those kids love the apostrophes! 

[MBE]

Desmond I want to welcome you here. I hope you understand why I am going to say this, but Mr Elliott has discredited himself in nearly every way going back to 1982 when he promised to press a 2 LP set of Brian productions and never refunded many pre-orders he took. After making some boots in the 80's, he continued to not meet his end of the deal on various trades, records, Cd's books. He took some material I had written and never returned it, and after initially being nice, turned very rude. Thankfully I copyrighted it, but had to go to some pretty severe lengths to ensure it wasn't used. He screwed Diane Rovel over the credits to Winter Symphony, and frankly treated her with great disrespect. She came to me for some info about the stuff he took from me, and I was glad to supply it. Again I am not trying to attack you by repeating this stuff but it must be said. For all of the pioneering stuff he did at one time, he is a shady character.

[The Shift]

Desmond I want to welcome you here. I hope you understand why I am going to say this, but Mr Elliott has discredited himself in nearly every way going back to 1982 when he promised to press a 2 LP set of Brian productions and never refunded many pre-orders he took. After making some boots in the 80's, he continued to not meet his end of the deal on various trades, records, Cd's books. He took some material I had written and never returned it, and after initially being nice, turned very rude. Thankfully I copyrighted it, but had to go to some pretty severe lengths to ensure it wasn't used. He screwed Diane Rovel over the credits to Winter Symphony, and frankly treated her with great disrespect. She came to me for some info about the stuff he took from me, and I was glad to supply it. Again I am not trying to attack you by repeating this stuff but it must be said. For all of the pioneering stuff he did at one time, he is a shady character.

Yep, I too find it hard to reconcile the way he ripped a bunch of us off. I know the whole First Wave affair might have put him in a bad financial position, but there was never any apology, explanation (that I'm aware of, anyway). That he ripped off other fans in other ways, as well as those closer to the band, is deeply saddening.

[Desmond Jones]

He took some material I had written and never returned it, and after initially being nice, turned very rude. Thankfully I copyrighted it, but had to go to some pretty severe lengths to ensure it wasn't used. ... She came to me for some info about the stuff he took from me ...

Just curious. What is it he took from you and never returned? Where did he try to use it?

All that aside, it doesn't change the fact that the mish-mash that was the Brother Years set wasn't what the Capitol Records team at the time (which Brad was only part of) intended. As originally designed, it was a lot more coherent than what appeared and really did fit as a third "Greatest Hits" set. That's all I'm saying.

[Steve Mayo]

don't want to throw stones at people, but for me, the first time, it was right after his "surf's up" book was published. he promised "updates" and asked for money up front. i sent it..never was an update..no refund..over 25 years ago or so.

not going to mention the others.....should have known better....but i'm sure many here are in the same boat.

[Bicyclerider]

[
All that aside, it doesn't change the fact that the mish-mash that was the Brother Years set wasn't what the Capitol Records team at the time (which Brad was only part of) intended. As originally designed, it was a lot more coherent than what appeared and really did fit as a third "Greatest Hits" set. That's all I'm saying.

I didn't say that Brad didn't like or even love Dennis's music.  But on the old smileshop site he vigorously defended not including Dennis's songs on Best of the Brother Years because they didn't chart and pointed out that Sunflower, which contained 4 Dennis songs, was the worst selling Beach Boys LP to that point, and specifically said Dennis's songs were not commercial and didn't sell - implying that Sunflower not selling was at least partly due to Dennis's songs.  So yeah, Brad did subscribe to the "Dennis's music isn't commercial and won't sell" theory that is now at last discredited for all time.  I agree that to include Til I Die and Surf's Up and Cool Cool Water on a non-commercial pretense but to exclude Dennis's songs was ridiculous.  Now maybe Brad was just defending the Capitol "partyline" justifying what was included and what wasn't, but he didn't give the impression that behind the scenes he was fighting to include Dennis songs.

[Bicyclerider]

Oh, and the single edit of Cool Cool Water had been previously released - on Ten Years of Harmony, the subject of this thread!

[Desmond Jones]

I didn't say that Brad didn't like or even love Dennis's music.  But on the old smileshop site he vigorously defended not including Dennis's songs on Best of the Brother Years because they didn't chart and pointed out that Sunflower, which contained 4 Dennis songs, was the worst selling Beach Boys LP to that point, and specifically said Dennis's songs were not commercial and didn't sell - implying that Sunflower not selling was at least partly due to Dennis's songs.

Hmmm... I hung around ye olde smileshop a lot, made my fair share of contributions, got myself involved in a lot of discussions, but that's one I don't remember at all.

maybe Brad was just defending the Capitol "partyline" justifying what was included and what wasn't, but he didn't give the impression that behind the scenes he was fighting to include Dennis songs.

Having been involved in the record business one way or the other for more years than I care to count, I can tell you it's all based on compromise. Lots of times, you have to get behind something you really don't believe in. I expect that's what must have happened, as I know personally that Brad loved Dennis' music. In fact, after that Carl Wilson benefit compilation CD was so well received, there was a proposal to do something similar for Dennis, and Brad was on-board with that! Somewhere I've got the proposed tracklisting for that, too. (We used to trade e-mails a lot back in the day.)

[Desmond Jones]

Oh, and the single edit of Cool Cool Water had been previously released - on Ten Years of Harmony, the subject of this thread!

Yeah, but not on CD here in the ol' U.S. of A.