Bruce Johnston talks reunion idea.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Overlooked by seemingly everyone in this thread is the fact that this might be a very good thing for Brian. Much like finally finishing SMiLE lifted a great weight off of Brian, making peace and doing a final show and/or recording with the surviving BB may be great closure for Brian, and may indeed provide a great relief for him.

[carl r]

The idea as suggested by Bruce isn't so terrible I think. Jonathan is 100% right - the resulting product might not sell as well, or sound as great, as people seem to think. But there would be minimal risk attached.

What makes people "protective" towards Brian is the idea that he would jettison his current support circle and band in favour of Mike and Bruce. Because there seems little doubt that he needs this support circle, perhaps more as time goes by.

[shelter]

EXCELLENT post, Jon.

[Alex]

If a reunion were to ever happen, I hope it ends up being more like the Pet Sounds or Jack Reiley era and less like the 15BO era or the Kokomo/SIP era.

[shelter]

Any concept that brings Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and David together on a stage or in a recording studio is good enough for me... If anything worth hearing would come out of it, than that would be a bonus.

[Dancing Bear]

If a reunion were to ever happen, I hope it ends up being more like the Pet Sounds or Jack Reiley era and less like the 15BO era or the Kokomo/SIP era.

In which era would "Forever she'll be my surfer girl" fit ?

[Sam_BFC]

The Brian Wilson Band era 

[Howie Edelson]

A heavily tweaked reunion show shown (and re-shown) on PBS would be a tremendous success regardless of any musical or creative shortcomings. It would garner major, major press. As we enter an era where the over-60 crowd is doing less-and-less newsworthy "events," something like this will play huge -- and be an incredible earner for the band. As far as doing anything for love -- how much of the band's professional life has been played out in the name of "love"? The public loves a reunion. The Beach Boys loves being paid for being loved. It's not brain surgery.

One thing you can't deny, this band is obsessed with one another -- I'm not calling that "love", but they sure do spend a lot of time thinking about one another.

[adamghost]

What truth? Brian, here's the truth. You can work with the Beach Boys, who have not made a good album in three decades, whose voices are shot and who don't always get along. Oh, and who lost two key members years and years ago. Or, you can continue your solo career, which has seen creative success of late, with a band at the top of its game that sings well, plays well, and appears to get along great, with "good vibes." What do you think?

Although I think Bruce's proposal is the most sensible reunion idea I've heard, I think Amy B. nails it.

Can I just ask this question:  why do we need a Beach Boys reunion?  I just don't see what possible use it serves on any level other than possibly commercial for some of the participants (and I agree that if Al wants back in to the Mike & Bruce show that it would be great if that could happen)?  In fact, if Al & David & Bruce & MIke could pull something together, that would be a more interesting Beach Boys touring act than what we have now; but we're talking about more than just the traveling oldies show...

All of the guys have lost vocal ability.  Al can still cut it on leads, and the others can pull it off occasionally, but in terms of weaving the harmonies together, which requires multiple people in good voice, I can't imagine it would be there. 

Moreover, the guys have not shared the same vision of the band since 1966.  That's why their history is so tortured.  They managed to make it work for 20 years -- sort of -- but this is a basic difference in outlook that would have only worsened in the last two decades.  A reunion would only cause more friction when some of the guys don't seem to get along that great to begin with.

From a fan's perspective, I simply don't see the point, other than "wouldn't it be cool..."  If Carl were around, if the guys could agree on a single vision (or at least get close), if the principals' pipes were in better shape, if there weren't already bands touring the songbook....OK, then I could see it.  But what purpose would a reunion serve?  The only one I can think of is to put Brian back in the Beach Boys, and it's clear he doesn't want to be there.    Moreover, if you know their history, that's a perfectly reasonable way for him to feel.  And I don't see how, given the personalities and politics involved, it would be a happy situation for him.It doesn't make much sense artistically to me, since whatever the merits of Brian's solo work I doubt it would be improved by the other BB's participation...their heads are in a different place.

That's just one man's perspective but I honestly don't get why so many people want to see this happen, other than on a fantasy level of wishing for a happy ending outcome that, given the situation, is highly unlikely.  As I said, I think Bruce's idea is the best one I've heard, but even that would require everyone to agree to it. 

[Pretty Funky]

Well at the risk of being shouted down. In once sense I would say Brian owes the Beach Boys a good show!

Not to take anything away from his musical contribution as a song writer to the band, his live performances were poor after the early 60s or not at all.
To have him now singing what, 25 plus songs as lead vocalist with his own band today is incredible.

To have him sing lead on 12-15 songs on stage with a reunited Mike and co would be unheard of, even at their peak.

[MBE]

I like the shows Brian did in 1967 and 1970 too.

[Dancing Bear]

Adam, couldn't all this reasoning be also applied to Brian's solo career? It's not really advancing his legacy.

[Wilsonista]

What truth? Brian, here's the truth. You can work with the Beach Boys, who have not made a good album in three decades, whose voices are shot and who don't always get along. Oh, and who lost two key members years and years ago. Or, you can continue your solo career, which has seen creative success of late, with a band at the top of its game that sings well, plays well, and appears to get along great, with "good vibes." What do you think?

Although I think Bruce's proposal is the most sensible reunion idea I've heard, I think Amy B. nails it.

Can I just ask this question:  why do we need a Beach Boys reunion?  I just don't see what possible use it serves on any level other than possibly commercial for some of the participants (and I agree that if Al wants back in to the Mike & Bruce show that it would be great if that could happen)?  In fact, if Al & David & Bruce & MIke could pull something together, that would be a more interesting Beach Boys touring act than what we have now; but we're talking about more than just the traveling oldies show...

All of the guys have lost vocal ability.  Al can still cut it on leads, and the others can pull it off occasionally, but in terms of weaving the harmonies together, which requires multiple people in good voice, I can't imagine it would be there. 

Moreover, the guys have not shared the same vision of the band since 1966.  That's why their history is so tortured.  They managed to make it work for 20 years -- sort of -- but this is a basic difference in outlook that would have only worsened in the last two decades.  A reunion would only cause more friction when some of the guys don't seem to get along that great to begin with.

From a fan's perspective, I simply don't see the point, other than "wouldn't it be cool..."  If Carl were around, if the guys could agree on a single vision (or at least get close), if the principals' pipes were in better shape, if there weren't already bands touring the songbook....OK, then I could see it.  But what purpose would a reunion serve?  The only one I can think of is to put Brian back in the Beach Boys, and it's clear he doesn't want to be there.    Moreover, if you know their history, that's a perfectly reasonable way for him to feel.  And I don't see how, given the personalities and politics involved, it would be a happy situation for him.It doesn't make much sense artistically to me, since whatever the merits of Brian's solo work I doubt it would be improved by the other BB's participation...their heads are in a different place.

That's just one man's perspective but I honestly don't get why so many people want to see this happen, other than on a fantasy level of wishing for a happy ending outcome that, given the situation, is highly unlikely.  As I said, I think Bruce's idea is the best one I've heard, but even that would require everyone to agree to it. 

Wow.

Adam, thank ypou for being the voice of reason.

Sometimes I think the fans want a reunion more than the members themselves. 

[the captain]

Sometimes I think the fans want a reunion more than the members themselves. 

I agree with the sentiment and rest (unquoted) of your post. All I can add is to the above: sometimes? Sometimes?

[Jonathan Blum]

Adam, couldn't all this reasoning be also applied to Brian's solo career? It's not really advancing his legacy.

You don't think finishing and touring Smile redefined Brian's legacy?

How about proving he could do a good album as a followup?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Amy B.]

I don't think Brian could do anything to advance his legacy in the way the people seem to think he should. What could he do-- resurrect the young Beach Boys from the past and write and produce another Pet Sounds? I think what will need to happen to turn Brian into a legend on par with the best of his peer in the public's eyes is, sadly, for Brian to die and people to start talking about how great he was. Until then (and I hope that's a long, long time), I hope Brian does what makes him happy.

And Adam said a lot of what I meant-- I don't really see the point of a reunion and can't see how it would end up turning into some lovefest. Extended contact has always resulted in friction with those guys, at least, in the last few decades. They aren't even able to show each other respect in the press, so in person?

[Dancing Bear]

Adam, couldn't all this reasoning be also applied to Brian's solo career? It's not really advancing his legacy.

You don't think finishing and touring Smile redefined Brian's legacy?

No. Smile is still an abandoned and beautiful project that Brian worked on when he was 24/25 years old.

BWPS made some waves back in 2004, the CD was a nice celebration, but Smile will always be a sixties beast. Officially releasing more than the twenty-something minutes of Smile contained the GV box set would do the job just as well, or better. Probably better, IMO.

How about proving he could do a good album as a followup?

I don't think it's a good album, and I doubt anyone cares outside the diehard fanbase.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

A heavily tweaked reunion show shown (and re-shown) on PBS would be a tremendous success regardless of any musical or creative shortcomings. It would garner major, major press. As we enter an era where the over-60 crowd is doing less-and-less newsworthy "events," something like this will play huge -- and be an incredible earner for the band. As far as doing anything for love -- how much of the band's professional life has been played out in the name of "love"? The public loves a reunion. The Beach Boys loves being paid for being loved. It's not brain surgery.

One thing you can't deny, this band is obsessed with one another -- I'm not calling that "love", but they sure do spend a lot of time thinking about one another.

I totally agree with Howie here!

Not only would it be a celebration of 50 years of the Beach Boys but a recognition of the music of Brian Wilson.  Mike said recently in an interview that things were being discussed to mark the 50 year anniversary.

Mike, Bruce, Al and David could tour but have Brian join in for at least one show.

And, I would add, the Capitol Records rooftop get-together in 2006 went great!  Brian and Mike were cool. Brian truly looked like he was having fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT9iT3L_5AY&feature=PlayList&p=85CE512363DE5A89&playnext=1&index=27

 Things are even better these days now that Mike and Al have made nice.

[Dancing Bear]

I don't think Brian could do anything to advance his legacy in the way the people seem to think he should.

I don't even think he needs to advance his legacy. Honest.

And Adam said a lot of what I meant-- I don't really see the point of a reunion and can't see how it would end up turning into some lovefest. Extended contact has always resulted in friction with those guys, at least, in the last few decades. They aren't even able to show each other respect in the press, so in person?

If it may be hurtful to Brian, there are people whose job is to take care of him, don't worry. Anyway, he didn't want to revisit Smile but it was important for his career. You know how those things are.

I REALLY don't understand why Brian croaking songs he wrote four decades ago is swell and dandy if it's a solo gig, but it's turned into this disaster waiting to happen if the other Beach Boys happen to be on the same stage. What can they do, give him an atomic wedgie? 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Can I just ask this question:  why do we need a Beach Boys reunion?

With all respect, Adam, I'd like to take a shot at that question....

First, The Beach Boys could benefit from a reunion. A reunion - to reunite. To heal some old wounds. Lingering wounds. Have some laughs, enjoy each other's company. Friendship. Old friends getting back together. A group of guys who did some great things together, getting a last (?) chance to stand on a stage together and be recognized for it, not because they need the praise, but maybe for them to share the moment with the fans. Sometimes I look at Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce and they appear lost, like something's missing. Like they're just going through the motions - literally. Maybe it's because they were together for so long, that I /other fans will never accept them as solo artists. I wonder if they are truly comfortable in their present situations? The guys have been apart for awhile now, but they, all of them, will always consider themselves Beach Boys.

The fans. Mike Love (and Bruce) have stated many times how neat it is to see their fans grow up with The Beach Boys, and their children, and their children. Millions and millions of fans have bought albums and tickets over the last 50 years. This would be a great opportunity for the group to give back. No, they don't necessarily "owe" us anything more, but it would be nice to say "thank you" by giving their loyal fans one last highlight.

Capitol Records, PBS, the guys, their families, etc. could benefit financially by a reunion. A filmed concert on PBS could be shown for 7-8 years. CD's and DVD's could be marketed. The back catalogues would benefit. The guys could extend their touring careers by a couple of years by riding the momentum. The initial investment is minimal, the long-term gain is substantial.

Brian. For many years, Brian wanted to get back and produce The Beach Boys. Circumstances prevented it. After Carl's death, Brian said that The Beach Boys were done. But that was over ten years ago. And a lot of things have changed. Can anybody - including Brian - deny that a part of him would like to get back in the studio with his old buddies (yes, I realize the loss of Dennis and Carl leaves a gaping hole) and just record some music. Was his time in the studio with Mike, Al, Bruce, and David so painful? Wouldn't he get a kick out of trying to get some harmonies out of these guys? Guys who are his age? Who maybe have similar musical tastes? No, Brian doesn't have anything to prove, nothing to add to his legacy. Other than another great Beach Boys' album. You don't think that would make him happy?

For nuts like me. Even though I am in a small minority, I share a common feeling with millions of Beach Boys' fans. I would rather see and hear The Beach Boys than any of the solo projects and tribute bands. I have been musically unfulfilled by ALL of the solo albums, with the exception of Pacific Ocean Blue, which was 31 years ago. I am bored, especially with Brian's solo albums. I listen to them a couple of times, and put them away, rarely getting them back out. But I continually play The Beach Boys' albums - all of them. The Beach Boys as a whole are so much more interesting and basically "better" as a whole, rather than the separate, individual parts. I think they've proven that. And I think I speak for a very, very large percentage of Beach Boys' fans. Not the people who post on this board, but the millions of fans who go to the shows and buy the albums. If you stand in the lobby of a Brian or Mike & Bruce show - after the show - and ask the fans if they'd like to see a Beach Boys reunion, what do you think the percentages would be? Doesn't THAT really answer the question?

[MBE]

Sheriff I think you raised a good point. I don't think anybody (except maybe Dion without the Belmonts) is better as a solo act. I can rattle off many groups who I feel sound better as a group.
The Beatles
The Stones
The Who
and of course the Beach Boys
Even if they were more popular solo I also think artists like
Ike and Tina Turner
The Jackson 5
Kenny Rogers and the First Edition
had something as a group lacking later.

Now there is somtimes a stray solo album like say Pacific Ocean Blue that measures up to the group work, but I find that most groups who get sucessful (especally if they are family) get that way because of the special blend. I like some of Brian's solo stuff much better then Sheriff, but I do feel that every one of them would be better with the other Beach Boys doing back up.

[adamghost]

Well right on John, but I think I can sum up your post thusly:  you'd like it because you, personally, as a fan, would like to see it happen, based on your own conception of how it would turn out and how Brian and the others ought to feel about it.  You have a right to that dream and just because it's a dream doesn't mean it isn't a good dream or that it couldn't possibly work out in reality....but nearly all the evidence points the other way from what I can see.

As to the other question, how does this reasoning differ from Brian's solo career?  Well, a bunch of ways.  First, I would argue THAT LUCKY OLD SUN is the first unified, good all-the-way through album Brian has done since PET SOUNDS (except BWPS).  Mike Love didn't get that out of him, nor did Al or Bruce or Dennis or Gary Usher or E. Landy or whomever else has tried.  Scott Bennett did.  As Van Dyke pointed out to Scott at the outset of the project, he was a guy Brian had toured with for 10 years and was comfortable with.  Whatever else we fans would like to project on our idols, they are real people and they can't just create in any old environment, even ones where they've had past success.

Second -- let's assume that TLOS is a pile o' shite (as some feel) and all of Brian's solo career has been lacking (I would argue that for whatever its faults it's still been more interesting than what the Beach Boys were doing, WITH OR WITHOUT BRIAN, after around 1979).  Brian has the same right to go out and play and make a living as Mike or Al or Bruce does.  It's his music.  If he's good, or he sucks, then we have the right not to pay to see him.  That's not the same as saying that Brian owes us to get back to the Beach Boys because we think he'd be better with them than without.  Heads up to music listeners out there:  entertainers don't owe you ANYTHING other than value for your money when you pay for your CD or concert ticket.  Musicians spend their life in the public eye having to do a lot of things they don't necessarily want to do in order to keep food on the table.  They have to put up with a lot of people yelling the equivalent of  "play Free Bird" all their lives.  When you get to the point where Brian has, where he's wrecked his health and had to live for 40 years with people asking him stupid questions, he has a right at the end of the day to play with the people he wants to play with.  It's that simple.  He's already given up much of his life for you and CONTINUES TO DO SO.  No one who hasn't done it themselves has no idea what a grind promoting an album can be, no matter how famous you are.  It's amazing someone as fragile and damaged as Brian is pulls it off.  If Brian doesn't feel like he would enjoy a Beach Boys reunion and it would be harmful to him, he has a right to say that.  You can say "he can do it just this one time," but first off, "one time" literally means months of promotion, interviews, photos, studio touch ups, etc.  It's not as simple as just jumping onstage, doing it and jumping off.  It's a big pain in the neck, and in this case, it's a pain in the neck that involves dealing with people you may not want to deal with.

And let's say he did it, when does it end?  Didn't Brian come back for the fans and for the band in 1968, and 1970, and 1976, and 1983, and 1996, and...you get me point?  It's been very difficult for Brian to establish his own identity apart from the group.  Regardless of how WE may feel about, Brian thinks he's happier without them, and we don't have the right to second guess that.

I've been as critical of Brian's solo career as anyone.  But the Beach Boys have not been, in my opinion, doing good work since well before his split with the band.  He's given plenty.  He owes us nothing.

[MBE]

Heads up to music listeners out there:  entertainers don't owe you ANYTHING other than value for your money when you pay for your CD or concert ticket.

Hey the best stuff still comes out on vinyl too you know.

All kidding aside Adam you may be right here, but I still have to ask the question does Brian get to have a fair reading of who Mike, Al, Bruce, and Dave really are today? Does he think things were worse then they were because he was stoned or paranoid at the time? Does he remember things as they were or as he is told they were? I think these questions are valid considering Brian's condition and some of the people around him who have made negative (and sometimes disproved) statements about the Beach Boys. He owes us nothing but in my eyes he owes it to himself to lay the past to rest. Maybe he has come to terms with it, maybe I am way off base,  but I observe him carrying around a lot of hurt. I mentioned before I don't care if they do anything together in public, but I do feel he should sit down with the group and just talk things out. No wives, no lawyers. At least then he could let go of the past for good.

[Wilsonista]

Adam: Thank you again, you said it all.

Mike: I may be misreading you, but I don't think he really needed Landy, Leaf and Ledbetter to encourage any anti-BB feeling he may have. growing up in a dysfunctional family can breed tons of resentment that don't need any outside provocation.

[MBE]

Well I am sure there were real hurts or perceived ones. Again how much of that came from Brian's own somewhat hyper sensitivity? Even Leaf and Melinda acknowledge that Brian is hurt very easily. Read his reaction to getting benched on either the senior baseball or football team (I forgot which) in Peter Carlin's book. Even then he had a very thin skin.

I don't fully blame Landy, Leaf etc etc. for how he feels, but I do think it's a valid theory that they have made the situation more prickly.