10,000 Years (Ago)

[Exapno Mapcase]

Okay, in all the archive research that must have been done for the re-release of POB, did a DW version of this turn up?  I've heard the booted instrumental and the Lovester's version on his latest unreleased album and wonder if DW recorded a version with vocals.  As best I understand, the tune is DW's, but was he writing with Mike or did the latter come up with the lyrics afterwards?  Where did the title come from?  I'm assuming the lyrics are all ML's; I suppose this may not be the case. Was it actually DW's song in the first place? From what I remember from reading Brad Elliott's book, the tune was cut by DW late 70s and Mike either recorded it or was talking about recording it shortly after (though not, I think, for First Love) and then... many years down the line, we get (unofficially) Mike's version.

[Jon Stebbins]

This is directly from tape research done by Alan Boyd and passed on to the producers of the new package for their reference...as well as to me for liner perspective...(thanks Alan) 1975/76 "Dennis had finished a three-part backing track titled 10,000 Years (lyrics were supposedly written by Mike Love) but the song was shelved in favor of new Brian Wilson material. Later Dennis incorporated the progression into an experimental instrumental piece, originally logged as 2,000 Years Intro. After the initial session the track was mixed down and listed as Album String Intro, and eventually another take was the foundation for the song Friday Night(on POB)recorded 4/21/76."

As is the case with a lot of DW things, he never developed a releasable version of 10,000 Years but he excavated and recycled a major element of it into the intro of Friday Night...therefore 10,000 years lives in a way.

[Smilin Ed H]

I wonder how that worked with Mike recording a version - I mean in terms of rights and so on; I wonder if, at some point, he just gave the song to Mike anyhow.

[Alan Boyd]

Another quick note, based on some additional tape research:  musically, the track titled 10,000 YEARS derives from an earlier Dennis Wilson outtake from 1974 entitled DENNIS' SYMPHONY.   That one was probably based on a concept that Dennis was working on with Steve Kalinich at the time called LIFE SYMPHONY (the master for an early instrumental version of RAINBOWS, called STRING BASS SONG, is on the same master reel as SYMPHONY).

By the way, 10,000 YEARS was a musical trilogy.  The intro, as Jon pointed out, became the POB album intro that later became the first part of FRIDAY NIGHT, while the main section was slowed down and became the body of the latter song.  There was another section of SYMPHONY / 10,000 YEARS that was recorded for FRIDAY NIGHT but left out of the final edit of the song.

Perhaps 10,000 YEARS AGO was a lyrical concept of Mike's that they attempted to fit with this music that Dennis had already written?

[Alan Boyd]

Ooops - quick correction:

The first part of 10,000 years was re-recorded and became the track that's now known as ARE YOU REAL on the new "Bambu" comp.  It's the FIRST half of the SECOND part that was sorta reworked and slowed down and retitled 2,000 YEARS and then ALBUM INTRO which later became the FIRST part of FRIDAY NIGHT while the main progression of the SECOND part of 10,000 YEARS was reworked and became the main part of FRIDAY NIGHT.  And the the THIRD part.... well, see above.

*whew*

It's all a bit like the contract negotiation scene from the Marx Bros' "A Night at the Opera."

("The party of the second part shall be known in this contact as the party of the second part."  "I no like-a the second party either" "Well, you should've come to the first party, we didn't get home til three in the morning....")

[Smilin Ed H]

Thanks, all parties!

"1975/76 "Dennis had finished a three-part backing track titled 10,000 Years (lyrics were supposedly written by Mike Love) but the song was shelved in favor of new Brian Wilson material."  No wonder DW was disappointed with the direction of 15 BO...

[Roger Ryan]

Thanks for the clarification, Alan...just remember there is no sanity clause.

[Jason]

The track of 10,000 Years that's going around....is that the "Beach Boys" version or a Dennis version? Granted, my research is mostly dated, based on Brad Elliott information.

To borrow some info from the Addington site -

Brad Elliott mentions that the 1977 track Something New is on a tape with a "third version" of 10,000 Years. Is there any info on this version?

[Alan Boyd]

I don't know anything about a "Something New" being on a tape with another version of "10,000 Years."   

There IS a track labeled "Something New" that turned out to be the third attempt at a coda for "I Don't Know" which is also known as "Love Remember Me." a song by Dennis and Steve Kalinich that's on the new CD.  An old rough mix of that section apparently leaked out years ago and was making the rounds as "Love Keeps Tumbling Down On Me" or something to that effect.

Brad Elliott once had access to an old printed inventory list that was filled with errors and misspellings.  This has led to some confusion over the years.

[brianc]

Whoa! Is "I Don't Know" the same "I Don't Know" that Dennis cut in 1967, during the SMILE sessions?

Thanks for all of the boss info Alan. You rocked this one!

[Jason]

No, it's a different track.

[c-man]

To shed some further illumination on the history of this song, I'll quote Brad Elliott from the Summer '82 issue of Add Some Music:

"According to Al Jardine the song, correctly titled '10,000 Years Ago', was written by Mike, but Dennis did his own arrangement of the song with new lyrical and musical contributions.  Dennis cut a track, but Mike didn't like it."

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Seems Mike doesn't talk much at all about his latest solo endeavour.  Be interesting to hear his take on the track and it's evolution.

Alan - Do you hear any talk about Mike getting "Mike Love Not War" released?

PS- Great/fantastic to see you back posting on the board Alan Boyd!!!!!!!!!!  I picked up 'Channel Surfing' last year and loved it!!!!

[Exapno Mapcase]

"According to Al Jardine the song, correctly titled '10,000 Years Ago', was written by Mike, but Dennis did his own arrangement of the song with new lyrical and musical contributions.  Dennis cut a track, but Mike didn't like it."
 Would DW have used a ML-written tune as part of his own song? Is this Al's faulty memory.  As Alan said on another thread:
"Symphony from 1974 morphed into 10,000 Years (another trilogy) which later got reworked and became the album intro which later was the foundation for Friday Night...."


Was ML writing much music in 75-76?  I can understand if Al meant he'd written a set of lyrics that DW didn't like.  Still makes me wonder what kind of credits would be on the Lovester's version if it had been released officially.


And the other thing that makes this interesting is that this is one of two DW/ML tracks (the other being POB) that could feasibly have appeared on the follow-up to Holland... but both would've been horribly out of place on 15 BO!

[Jason]

Seems Mike doesn't talk much at all about his latest solo endeavour.  Be interesting to hear his take on the track and it's evolution.

Alan - Do you hear any talk about Mike getting "Mike Love Not War" released?

I'm not Alan, but I'm quite sure that the BB organization has nothing to do with Mike releasing Mike Love Not War. That's his own trip, and no record label wants to take it.

[Exapno Mapcase]

_

[Jason]

_

People will debate the meaning of that underscore for 37 years.

[Jason]

Was ML writing much music in 75-76?  I can understand if Al meant he'd written a set of lyrics that DW didn't like.  Still makes me wonder what kind of credits would be on the Lovester's version if it had been released officially.

And the other thing that makes this interesting is that this is one of two DW/ML tracks (the other being POB) that could feasibly have appeared on the follow-up to Holland... but both would've been horribly out of place on 15 BO!

To answer your first question, there's a song from 1975, at least a title, Our Life, Our Love, Our Land, written by Mike alone. He also did a song with Carl, also in '75, called Don't Let Me Go. I don't know if recordings for these exist.

As far as Dennis cutting a track for 10,000 Years, I don't think one would have been ready for 15 Big Ones. This is just a guess, but my theory is that the circulating track for 10,000 Years might be from late 1976, early 1977, during POB sessions.

[MBE]

Hearing Mike's version it's good until the chanting at the end. It has a slightly Pacific Ocean Blue (the song) vibe to it,  the music seems a lot like what Dennis was doing.

[Exapno Mapcase]

I was jujst going by on what Jon suggested: "This is directly from tape research done by Alan Boyd and passed on to the producers of the new package for their reference...as well as to me for liner perspective...(thanks Alan) 1975/76 "Dennis had finished a three-part backing track titled 10,000 Years (lyrics were supposedly written by Mike Love) but the song was shelved in favor of new Brian Wilson material."  But maybe it wouldn't have been finished.  Your right, songs (and they sound kind of ambitious, in that early 70s manner) by Mike from this era have been mentioned in the research; perhaps Al was confusing 10,000 Years with another track.

[c-man]

perhaps Al was confusing 10,000 Years with another track.

...or perhaps Al was correct in his recollection.  At the most, his quote would've been a mere 5 or 6 years after the fact (if the final version of 10,000 Years cut by Dennis was done in '76 or '77).  If a "Mike" version of the song was never cut (until his solo version in the mid-2000s) then the "Dennis" versions would be the only evidence existing in the Brother vaults, and if no vocals were recorded for them, it would appear that this was totally a Dennis creaton...except for statements made those in the know.  Like Alan Jardine.  Although his memory has proved, at times, to not always be 100% accurate, I would tend to trust a quote from him a mere 5 or 6 years after the event in question, especially in regards to something like this.

[c-man]

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read somewhere that Mike had the lyrics for "Only With You" first, THEN Dennis set them to music, instead of the other-way-around like I would've thought.

[Exapno Mapcase]

So when you say Al said Mike wrote the song, you meant (or Al meant) he had written the lyrics first.  If not, I'm  just not sure why DW would be adapting a ML song and turning it into something of his own.  Or did Mike come up with some of the music?

Still, all this stuff is  a far cry from the retro new stuff and the therapeutic oldies that were released by the group.

[c-man]

So when you say Al said Mike wrote the song, you meant (or Al meant) he had written the lyrics first.  If not, I'm  just not sure why DW would be adapting a ML song and turning it into something of his own.  Or did Mike come up with some of the music?

Still, all this stuff is  a far cry from the retro new stuff and the therapeutic oldies that were released by the group.

I took it to mean Mike wrote the original lyrics & music, then Dennis came up with new lyrical & musical contributions that modified and/or expanded the song into a new direction, went in the studio & cut the track.  Then cut it again.  And eventually again.

[Dancing Bear]

And the other thing that makes this interesting is that this is one of two DW/ML tracks (the other being POB) that could feasibly have appeared on the follow-up to Holland... but both would've been horribly out of place on 15 BO!

I think every Beach Boy penned track in 15BO is out of place.... With the exception of maybe It's Ok and Susie Concinatti. I'd venture to say that POB, a kind of rocking track, would sit better with those oldies than Everyone's in Love with You or That Same Song.