Alleged TLOS demos...

[Amy B.]

Aha. No Stockholm Strings & Horns, fewer "real" instruments?

But that can't be... I mean, they paid SS&H to perform in London. How much more could it cost to pay them for studio time?
Or maybe I'm just wrong.

[Chris Brown]

Obviously you're far more in the loop than us, Andrew, but how much stock can you really put in demos?  Unless the problem is like Amy suggested about a lack of "real" instruments, or you know something about the final recordings that are being done that we don't.  I can't imagine it being the production (as the last few Brian has done have been quite good, I think) or absence of certain band members, so I can't possibly guess what it might be.

We love you AGD but you are quite the tease!

[Luther]

I would imagine--and hope--the final product would sound different! The demos are demos.

I know that. I was referring to Andrew's statement, which ended in an emoticon that suggested he had some kind of insider info that told him the songs would be different in a bad way. As in, they're putting a sax solo on Midnight's Another Day because the adult contempo producer of the moment is now involved.

My comment wasn't specifically aimed at you; more the topic in general. And I believe we've got a deleted post now in that area that was more my point of contention originally.

[Amy B.]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

[Wirestone]

Well, hell, maybe I should write what my (self) deleted post said! I only edited it because I thought it a tad too inflammatory.

What if Scott Bennett was booted from the band? The demos show him as a major co-creative force in TLOS -- and I certainly didn't know that he wrote "Southern California." That would be a fairly basic reason to want them squelched.

But I can't imagine this is the case. My suspicion is that the body of the work has changed in some substantial way. That is, maybe the VDP linking vignettes have been deleted.

Who knows?

[Jim McShane]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

[doc smiley]

now what Jim says....?

does he know something that most of us don't ;  or is he speculating in a most negative and frankly
uncomfortable way....


I'm looking forward to TLOS  and regardless of the gossip, until we hear otherwise, I'm assuming that Brian is recording with the people that he wants to perform with...

If the means a few band member changes.. so be it, because while Brian is well off, the others are just musicians and need to make ends $$ meet..

I'm surprised that they all have hung together as long as they have....

IMHO

Doc Smiley

[Wilsonista]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

Wow. Coming from one of the heartiest supporters of the BW camp and BW band, that's saying something.

[Wirestone]

Frankly, if it were just BW and the band making the decisions and the music, I would heartily support them. But they never have quite gotten to that point -- so much has been dictated by outside business forces and by the expectations of BW's management team.

I mean, what the hell was GIOMH about? That album was clearly something the band and BW were less than enthusiastic about. But it got made, because hey, it helped stoke the "Brian is still creative" storyline the same year that Smile came out. I mean, I love GIOMH, but there's no use denying that it's fitfully inspired, at best.

Let's not get into the scads of DVD releases, featuring "tributes" from such august talents as Ricky Martin.

Where were the collaborations with the Wondermints? Where were the Darian co-writes? Hell, where were the Foskett co-writes? Scott Bennett is nice and all, but why was he the one plucked out for songwriting on TLOS anyway? The BW band's potential has hardly ever been fully realized.

Meanwhile, Brian seems to putter along in his own little world -- and god knows it was nice to see that he still can bang out a tune and sing it (on record) nicely. But his moments of inspiration come and go, and they've seldom been captured (with the exception of something like "Walking Down the Path of Life," written and recorded in a month or two).

TLOS seemed to be a chance to capture that inspiration on record, for once, in a way that hadn't been worried to death. But it looks like it is. I will enjoy the record in whatever form it takes, I'm sure -- assuming the basic songs haven't changed. But the BW band is so talented. So capable. They have brought BW so much joy.

They, and he, deserve better.

[Jim McShane]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

Wow. Coming from one of the heartiest supporters of the BW camp and BW band, that's saying something.

I think much more the band than the BW camp, RobMac. People can say what they like, but I believe that band is a unique combination of wonderful, extraordinary musical talent and genuinely great, caring people. I can't imagine Brian's resurgence happening without them, at least not to the level of finishing Smile, etc.  Why in the world would anyone ever want to mess up that chemistry??

I was never a big fan of the BW "camp" per se, although I probably HAD a higher opinion of them than some, especially as relates to BWPS. But on the other hand - from the first time I saw them, I've been a huge fan of the band. There are very few ensembles (now or in the past) that could make great music come alive like they did, and do it with such class and such great attitudes. If indeed Jim and Bob (or Scott) have been "fired" it would be a travesty and a damn shame. Probably the beginning of the end of the greatest touring band I and many others have ever seen/heard too. And I believe they deserve much better than that.

[Susan]

double post

[Susan]

First of all, let's remember that "departures" can be motivated from either side.  Thinking "fired" is jumping to conclusions.

Hell, where were the Foskett co-writes? Scott Bennett is nice and all, but why was he the one plucked out for songwriting on TLOS anyway?

Jeff has been great to the fans, and he has been Brian's right hand in many ways.  I would wager, in fact, that if not for Jeff,the last ten years would have been very empty indeed for Brian fans!  Jeff has been irreplaceable on so many levels.  But Scott is many times the songwriter Jeff is.  That's why Scott was "plucked." 

And...didn't many of the sessions between Brian and Scott for what eventually became TLOS take place in summer '06?  Hard to know if anybody was plucking anything, or if a couple of guys were just writing some songs together.

[Wirestone]

Susan--I probably should not have hit Scott like that. For what it's worth, I think the TLOS songs are excellent, and he obviously played a big role with them.

I was just making the larger point that so many opportunities with the band seem to have been passed by. Why didn't Darian and Brian ever write together, for instance? Why didn't all of this talent help Brian create new things? They are clearly capable of cutting an album in a month or two. Where are our half-dozen new BW studio LPs full of band collaborations and their fresh, vibrant playing and singing?

That all seemed possible, back in 99-01. Now -- not so much.

[Jim McShane]

First of all, let's remember that "departures" can be motivated from either side.  Thinking "fired" is jumping to conclusions.

You are correct of course, but what I've seen written up to this point seems to point towards "fired". Or "eased out" maybe would be a better way to say it.  And it may all be just rumor, but if it's true it's not good news.

[SurferGirl7]

All I can say this is all very sad to watch and hear about.

[Doo Dah]

Very very sad. I agree with the above sentiments that even with all the touring,  the BWPS mind blow and the TLOS surprise, I've always felt as if there was a great unsaid - why didn't these greyhounds just GO and knock out some great studio experiments with Brian? Sometimes I'm afraid that its possible the here n now Brian has a lot more in common with the yawning, slightly 'down' fellow in the early BWPS rehearsal vids. Maybe the reason it never fully came together is that Brian was never fully capable of seeing it through.

I'll be interested in seeing whether the greatest hits tour this summer will basically be a warmed over version of the casino line up I saw in Vancouver last summer. Stripped down and quick n dirty. They are playing casinos this go round anyway.

If the TLOS release ends up dumbing down the freshness of the London shows, I'm glad that I downloaded the London shows and downloaded the demos. VERY pleased. If that offends the inner circle, well - that's just too bad. That lucky old sun will still come up tomorrow.

[MBE]

Wasn't Adult Child the last time Brian really took charge? I think after that he wasn't able to and  he  for the most part is that yawning figure seen in the Smile doc. He comes to life under the right circumstances, but because he is dependent on others to such a high degree it is hit and miss. I see the whole hits tour, Al "leaving", the tribute dvd's as slaps in the face. I don't ecactly blame Brian but he does let this stuff happen. He still has a lot of talent but nobody seems to realize that these musicians are important and should be treated like the equal partners they are. Otherwise we will get another Sweet Insanity or Stars and Stripes debacle or something unfocussed as GIOMH. Personally if Brian retired after Smile it may have been better all around. LOS has promise but if it's not going to be done right I rather stick with what's floating around now. Since he had that onstage episode last year I feel more then ever that Brian is being led by the nose down the wrong path. Seeing how blank he looks lately on things like the Kennedy Honors breaks my heart really.

[AvanTodd]

Since he had that onstage episode last year I feel more then ever that Brian is being led by the nose down the wrong path. Seeing how blank he looks lately on things like the Kennedy Honors breaks my heart really.

What happened onstage last year?  I never heard about that...

This is all I'll say: I was anticipating the studio version of TLOS with uncommon impatience. Not so much any more. I think... to expect another BWPS could now be unrealistic.

This is very disturbing.

[TonyW]

I've decided I'm not going to worry or stress over anything I can't control.

Over the past 10 years I've received more from Brian than I ever expected and I'm more than happy with that.

Brian and his People or the People and their Brian can do whatever they want. I saw TLOS with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears and I'm happy with that - if it never makes to record or CD then its just sad too bad.

[Wirestone]

Well, I think some of this goes too far.

Saying that Brian and the band could have done more on an original, creative level in the last 10 years is one thing. Saying Brian is being manipulated or controlled is quite another.

For what it's worth, I think Brian is probably quite content to be creative sometimes, and not creative a lot of other times. The issue is how those around him deal with that. I think his inner circle can sometimes force him at times he doesn't want to be forced. I think his band (his outer circle, so to speak) is so reluctant to ever force him that they sometimes miss out on the potential for great things.