That Lucky Old Sun : When do we get a release!?

[shelter]

ALL Beach Boys studio albums before 15 Big Ones were shorter than 38 minutes...

[the captain]

6 out of 23 replies is considered an obsession?

Switch to decaf, Luther.

No.

[TonyW]

Oh well - there you go - I'm screwed!!

No, your point/post was an excellent one. It indirectly reiterates the point I was trying to make.

TLOS is (and sounds like) an attempt at "art", as opposed to a CD full of potential singles to get Brian back on the radio. If TLOS times in at 38 minutes, and that's what the piece calls for, then that's how it should come out.

But noooooooooooooooo, that's not good enough because it won't make enough money. See, they're thinking like 1966-67 again. They still haven't learned their lesson. The $$ comes before the artistic vision - again.

Your idea was a good one. Maybe they could release the 38 minute TLOS with a bonus CD or DVD of something. At least it wouldn't be compromising Brian's art.

And BTW, yeah, Brian does have three houses. Add up the value(s) of those three houses and subtract what he owes. I bet there's plenty of equity there. Real estate is one of the best investments there is. It increases in value all the time. Do you know anybody who sold their house for less than what they paid for it? Brian's loaded, unless Melinda made some horrible investments.

I was unaware that so many contemporary albums come out at the 30 to 40 minute mark - I'm not anal (not saying others are) about album lengths and would personally be very happy if TLOS came out as is. Having seen it live I know how good it really is. I wouldn't complain about a 38 minute TLOS CD release.

Given the nature of the work - the meshed dichotomy between the story of Southern California/LA and the Wilson story - there are significant oportunities to expand the "art" behind the work. I'm not thinking simply of a combo of CD & a DVD of a live show here, I'm thinking bigger scope, something different, "outside the circle" as I posted earlier - I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not the artist and my 50+ brain is limited in its knowledge of the mediums available to the creative people - but the potential is there - its a panoramic work of art and deserves to be treated as such. There are opportunities here for Brian's people to expand the scope of "an album release or format" and to push the boundaries. This isn't about "hits and Top 40 success" - those days are well behind Brian and are part of some blueboard fantasy world - this is about pushing the limits of the contemporary artist marketing to the non Top 40 market - rewrite some rules here folks! Just as Brian did in 66/67 - The TLOS release can be about mining the creative leagacy of what Brian was creating in 66/67 not 63/64.

The release of TLOS shouldn't be limited to "how it's been done before" - for example Mark London should be considered as important in the overall "Brian Wilson" package now as Mike or Carl were to the "Beach Boys" package in the 60s. All of the creative people who work for Brian should be viewed as part of the "Brian Wilson" of today not just the musicians - why limit an artists ability to create new product to our old concepts of what a "band" should be?

And as for house prices going down - yep it happens - here in Australia the housing bubble burst about 5 years ago and house prices in major cities like Sydney & Melbourne crashed between 10% to 20% - back then our Reserve Bank pushed the credit responsibility back on the consumer unlike the US Fed which let the sub prime market expand - now Australia is increasing rates to cool the economy while the US Gov is reducing interest rates in order to boost the economy and avoid recession. Hell the Aussie Dollar is almost parity with the US$ - 5 years ago it was half the value of the US$ - at least the cost to us of buying boots from overseas has halved!!  

[Dr. Tim]

Let's not forget, fellow folk, that the money issue may not be that Brian LACKS the money to record TLOS, but would PREFER to have someone else advance it, like a WB - Nonesuch.  Yeah, he can pay for it, but let's try to get someone else to pony up first.  That's how it used to be done.  Given the metastasizing of the cancer killing the record industry, that may not be as do-able as it once was, of course.   Capitol/EMI, for one, is cutting acts, not signing them.  Still, you can give it a try before getting out your own checkbook to pay for the studio time.

My guess is it will get done later this year, but he will have to front it himself (or with a little consortium), then license the finished product out to get the best boutique deal he can.   If he were really daring he'd do something like Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails,  post it for free for a while then sell a high-quality FLAC download/CD/LP "deluxe" release, but that may be a bit much to ask him to consider.  Or maybe not:  Aretha Franklin is supposed to be doing something like that soon with her own self-produced/released new disc now that she's done with Arista and the whole "duets" thing.

[Awesoman]

As it stands - at roughly 38 minutes (or whatever) - its not an "album".

Wow, so neither Sgt. Pepper or Pet Sounds is an album, either?

I think in this day and age, most albums can't get away with only being slightly longer than an episode of Friends.  I'm just speculating but I think most albums that come out today range anywhere from 45-70 minutes on average. 

[the captain]

I think in this day and age, most albums can't get away with only being slightly longer than an episode of Friends.  I'm just speculating but I think most albums that come out today range anywhere from 45-70 minutes on average. 

I believe you're wrong, at least in my experience (mostly pop and rock on indie labels with major label distribution deals). I realize hip hop albums tend to be long. Reissues, of course, are loaded with extras. But actual new releases by new acts, in my experience, are 35-45 minutes on average, with outliers, of course.

[the captain]

Because I really can be that anal, I decided to check some album durations. I've always got a few dozen discs at my coffee table in the living room, usually mostly new albums that either I've been listening to a lot or that I've gotten for review. These are those albums at the moment, with running times listed.

Sons & Daughters, This Gift (2008), 40 minutes
Mountain Goats, Heretic Pride (2008), 44 minutes
Puerto Muerto, I Was a Swallow (2008), 34 minutes
Under Byen & the Danish Radio Sinfonietta, Siamesisk (2008), 30 minutes
Foot Foot, Trumpet (2008), 55 minutes
Two Dark Birds, S/T (2008), 44 minutes
The Ruby Suns, Sea Lion (2008), 41 minutes
Euros Childs, Chops (2005), 33 minutes

Anyway, I'm going to quit this exercise now. But I think it's safe to say that the average album--at least in the indie pop/rock realm--isn't 45-70 minutes. Among these eight random discs, it's 40 minutes.

[b00ts]

The timing "issue" is a red herring. Sorry. I can't see this being a reason why the album is delayed. On another note, I am excited by the inclusion of "Can't Wait Too Long," as it is the closest thing to an immediate "sequel" to SMiLe that Brian did circa 1967. Had SMiLe been finished then, "Can't Wait Too Long" would most likely have been part of the followup. This gives That Lucky Old Sun a nice sense of continuity...

It would be interesting if Brian picked up some of the other SMiLe out-takes, such as "Tones" and "Little Red Book." Maybe the sequel to Lucky Old Sun will be "Shortenin' Bread: A Dramaturgical Diad" featuring "Tones" and "With me Tonight" ;-)

B00tS!

[Andrew G. Doe]

The timing "issue" is a red herring. Sorry. I can't see this being a reason why the album is delayed.

Of course it's not - spurious in the extreme.

[pixletwin]

Maybe the delay is because they are going to flesh it out a bit more. 

I personally think the delay is no more complicated then scheduling conflicts. They would be crazy not to record this.

[SloopJohnB]

Maybe the delay is because they are going to flesh it out a bit more. 

I personally thing the delay is no more complicated then scheduling conflicts. They would be crazy not to record this.

Unfortunately, craziness defines the BB/BW world. 

[The Shift]

Do you know anybody who sold their house for less than what they paid for it?

Erm, I did! Though I don't share Brian's financial advisors... 

[carl r]

Oh well - there you go - I'm screwed!!

Given the nature of the work - the meshed dichotomy between the story of Southern California/LA and the Wilson story - there are significant oportunities to expand the "art" behind the work. I'm not thinking simply of a combo of CD & a DVD of a live show here, I'm thinking bigger scope, something different, "outside the circle" as I posted earlier - I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not the artist and my 50+ brain is limited in its knowledge of the mediums available to the creative people - but the potential is there - its a panoramic work of art and deserves to be treated as such. There are opportunities here for Brian's people to expand the scope of "an album release or format" and to push the boundaries. This isn't about "hits and Top 40 success" - those days are well behind Brian and are part of some blueboard fantasy world - this is about pushing the limits of the contemporary artist marketing to the non Top 40 market - rewrite some rules here folks! Just as Brian did in 66/67 - The TLOS release can be about mining the creative leagacy of what Brian was creating in 66/67 not 63/64.

Totally agree. My only qualm about TLOS as presented last year was that I felt musically it could have been pushed further out, more in a spacey direction. Were this recorded in a way that, let's say Nigel Godrich could help with, and matched with, say  autobiographical animation sequences, in the same way Chicago 10 apparently does, you would have something which would make a really big splash. Just some examples of what the possibilities could be.

[TonyW]

Oh well - there you go - I'm screwed!!

Given the nature of the work - the meshed dichotomy between the story of Southern California/LA and the Wilson story - there are significant oportunities to expand the "art" behind the work. I'm not thinking simply of a combo of CD & a DVD of a live show here, I'm thinking bigger scope, something different, "outside the circle" as I posted earlier - I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not the artist and my 50+ brain is limited in its knowledge of the mediums available to the creative people - but the potential is there - its a panoramic work of art and deserves to be treated as such. There are opportunities here for Brian's people to expand the scope of "an album release or format" and to push the boundaries. This isn't about "hits and Top 40 success" - those days are well behind Brian and are part of some blueboard fantasy world - this is about pushing the limits of the contemporary artist marketing to the non Top 40 market - rewrite some rules here folks! Just as Brian did in 66/67 - The TLOS release can be about mining the creative leagacy of what Brian was creating in 66/67 not 63/64.

Totally agree. My only qualm about TLOS as presented last year was that I felt musically it could have been pushed further out, more in a spacey direction. Were this recorded in a way that, let's say Nigel Godrich could help with, and matched with, say  autobiographical animation sequences, in the same way Chicago 10 apparently does, you would have something which would make a really big splash. Just some examples of what the possibilities could be.

The Chicago 10 concept is interesting (had to youtube it to know about it - nothing about it down this end of the planet) archival video footage and animation would be a good way of juxtaposing to the two story lines - certainly would come at a cost - maybe intercut with live performance footage (escpecially for the climax of Southern California) and find some other way of presenting the narratives. However this still reamains a simple context - push the boundaries of presentation within the acceptable commercial formats.

Come on Bri, you can do it ..... want a hamburger?

[the captain]

The timing "issue" is a red herring. Sorry. I can't see this being a reason why the album is delayed.

Of course it's not - spurious in the extreme.

Are you two talking about the running time discussion we've been having? If so, I don't think anyone really believes that is--or even hinted that it has been presented to be--the real reason. I, personally, have just been having a little fun with TonyW's comment that at 38 minutes, it's not long enough to be an album.

If by "timing 'issue'" you meant something else, well, disregard this post. And all of my posts. They will self-destruct in 3...2...1... [pow]