Session info at 10452

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ian's been doing sterling work, and has unearthed some new dates for the Surf's Up, CATP and Holland albums. Not that this is his fault, but a few are dubious as they clash with live shows, but no-one ever said that AFM sheets were holy writ, did they (well, I can think of one person...)

[mikeyj]

Ian's been doing sterling work, and has unearthed some new dates for the Surf's Up, CATP and Holland albums. Not that this is his fault, but a few are dubious as they clash with live shows, but no-one ever said that AFM sheets were holy writ, did they (well, I can think of one person...)

Well isn't it possible that they recorded and played a live show in the same day?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ian's been doing sterling work, and has unearthed some new dates for the Surf's Up, CATP and Holland albums. Not that this is his fault, but a few are dubious as they clash with live shows, but no-one ever said that AFM sheets were holy writ, did they (well, I can think of one person...)

Well isn't it possible that they recorded and played a live show in the same day?

Session in LA, gig in NY as part of an east Coast tour which began April 22 1971.

  1 - May Day Rally, Washington DC [5]
  2 - Trinity College, Hartford CT* [cancelled]
  2 - Paris Cinema, Worcester MA [3 shows - w/Psychedelic Magician]
  4 - The Dome, CW Post College, Brookville NY [6]
  4 - Surf's Up session: Long Promised Road
  6 - New Paltz College, NY [w/Happy Traum]
  7 - Spectrum, Philadelphia PA [/Boz Scaggs and Taj Mahal]
  7 - David Frost TV show, Philadelphia PA
  8 - University of Bridgeport CT
  9 - State University of New York, Plattsburgh NY
11 - Berrigan Brothers Benefit, Manley Field House, Syracuse NY

[mikeyj]

Ian's been doing sterling work, and has unearthed some new dates for the Surf's Up, CATP and Holland albums. Not that this is his fault, but a few are dubious as they clash with live shows, but no-one ever said that AFM sheets were holy writ, did they (well, I can think of one person...)

Well isn't it possible that they recorded and played a live show in the same day?

Session in LA, gig in CT.

Haha, okay maby not. Unless Brian or Carl or whoever wasn't at the gig and he was doing something in the studio while the other guys were touring? I know it's pretty unlikely but I'm just trying to think of POSSIBLE scenarios. As you say though, sadly the AFM sheets aren't always accurate.

[Ian]

One prime example- I have a copy of the AFM for Be Still and it is indeed dated April 13 1968.  Keith Badman assumed that this date must be correct (logical enough) and therefore created a tortured scenario in which Dennis flew home from Florida during a tour and then returned a few days later. This scenario had one problem- The Apr 13 Sarasota and Tampa concerts which he assumed were canceled actually were not. I have the concert review from the next days Sarasota paper to prove it, so clearly it is the AFM sheet that is wrong. Since there a number of such examples-it is fair to suggest that occasionly paperwork was created after the fact so musicians could get paid and the wrong date was inserted

[Aegir]

Urgh, why does Badman make up so many things up?

[mikeyj]

Urgh, why does Badman make up so many things up?

I know!! So frustrating. I don't think he realised that their would be people like AGD and Ian to prove him wrong

[Ian]

Honestly-He did a pretty good job-it is a good book- don't be too hard on him.  I like the book-has a lot of good info and cool photos

[mikeyj]

Honestly-He did a pretty good job-it is a good book- don't be too hard on him.  I like the book-has a lot of good info and cool photos

Yeah I still do like the book. I think the best things are the photos and the interview & article snippets. They are really great to read. And if you just forget about a lot of the concert dates that are wrong then you can still enjoy the info that is there.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Urgh, why does Badman make up so many things up?

Don't think he actually fabricated stuff wholesale (hey, all of my stuff  that turned up wasn't !  ), rather had very poor researchers, misread some articles and interviews and drew some spurious conclusions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Honestly-He did a pretty good job-it is a good book- don't be too hard on him.  I like the book-has a lot of good info and cool photos

A quote from Dr. Johnson irreverently springs to mind:

"Your book is both good and original - but that which is good is not original, and that which is origianl is not good".

[smile-holland]

Ian, I just happened to read your question on the BrianWilson-Fans messageboard on BB-concert dates in the Netherlands 1965-1970. Did you get info on that already? If not, I'd like to try and find out a bit if I have the possibility...not sure if I can find anything, but you never know...

[Mr. Wilson]

Has Badman ever commented publicly or privately about ian"s work + correcting Badmans errors..??

[Ian]

Smile Holland- Obviously I'd appreciate any effort on your part to check those dates the BBs played the Netherlands in 68, 69, 70 and 72- any articles you find- I'd love copies.

[smile-holland]

Smile Holland- Obviously I'd appreciate any effort on your part to check those dates the BBs played the Netherlands in 68, 69, 70 and 72- any articles you find- I'd love copies.

Ian, I'll try to do some research for you. As for 1972, I'm a 100% sure I have a copy of a Dutch pop-magazine in which both the Groningen and Rotterdam concert are announced. And although I wasn't there, I'm also a 100% sure that the Rotterdam concert took place. I'll get back on it later this week. To be continued...

[Mr. Wilson]

NOticed i never got a response ..What does Badman think of ALL this research..!!

[mikeyj]

NOticed i never got a response ..What does Badman think of ALL this research..!!

Well maby because nobody knows. I seriously doubt he would comment publicly about it. And even if he commented privately, somebody on this board would have to know him (highly unlikely). There's a good chance that he hasn't even checked around on message boards to see what people have been saying about his book (I mean maby he is sick of the history of The Beach Boys by now? I don't know). Besides I'm pretty sure it says in the back of the book to contact him with any corrections, so unless Ian etc.. have contacted him, I doubt he would know about any of these corrections.

[Smilin Ed H]

Well, he obviously checked the message boards when he was writing it!  Or was it his researchers?

[Ian]

I personally wrote to him but he never replied.  He may be a BB fan but he writes books about many topics- Two similar books on the Beatles (which I own), etc... He wrote an article for a magazine on film this month-which I saw. It is highly unlikely that he would create an updated edition...but we will perhaps.  Irrelevant anyways.  If you know about how history is written-then you don't consider our corrections as attacks that require refuting.  Later books and research always build on past researchers.  So nobody is denying that Badman's book was very helpful-he set up the basic framework that I use to find additional info.  In the grand scheme of things-only BB fanatics care about this subject anyways. 

[Competition Clutch]

i believe Badman popped up on a message board after the book was published to decry people drawing attention to the social security numbers printed in the book.  He wanted to lock the barn door there after the horse had got out.