Carl's illness

[mikeyj]

Is it possible that Carl had beaten the cancer if he hadn't toured?

I don't think that would have mattered one bit to be honest. Cancer is cancer and once you have it unless the chemo works or they can operate you and fix you then you're basically stuffed. I'm sure the doctors etc.. did everything they could to save him or atleast prolong his life as best they could.

[Fun Is In]

There are multiple types of lung cancer, most of which are very bad news.
Some respond to treatment, few if any are curable, unless found very early. 
Since symptoms don't often manifest "early", few are caught early. 
I'm guessing that by the time they found Carl's it was either too late for cure or an incurable type.

U.S. geezers like me may remember the early 1970s TV ads with John Wayne saying "I licked the Big C".....well, he had a good remission, but it licked him in the end.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The official statement said the diagnosis was lung cancer with secondaries in the brain. When you're diagnosed with secondaries (i.e. the cancer has spread to other parts of the body), it is effectively a death sentence.

[donutbandit]

The official statement said the diagnosis was lung cancer with secondaries in the brain. When you're diagnosed with secondaries (i.e. the cancer has spread to other parts of the body), it is effectively a death sentence.

Unless you are Lance Armstrong. But that is a very special case, and Armstrong was a young athlete in phenomenal physical condition. Carl didn't have that advantage.

[Jay]

I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure that most types of brain tumors aren't very treatable. I think Andrew was right to call it a virtual death sentence. So, Carl KNEW he was dying, but he still played for his audience. Musicians that are that dedicated to their fans are very rare.

[Fun Is In]

Fortunately for Lance Armstrong, he had a type of cancer that is highly responsive to treatment.
That was likely more important to his recovery than his physical condition.
I have several friends who have apparently been cured of testicular cancer at a similar age.

[donutbandit]

Yeah, but Lance had it everywhere - brain, lungs, liver. He was given a 0% chance of recovery.

It just goes to show that the phrase "mind over matter" really can and does work.

During my wife's battle, I, of course, did a lot of research. One idea that fascinated me was the technique of visualization. A strategy that was advanced was to picture the cancer cells as enemies, and use a mental visualization to eradicate them.  Such as a football team. I explained this to her, and she tried it.

A few days later, I asked if she had been doing it, and her reply was that her team was the Dallas Cowboys. She then added, "we have three teams!"

My mouth dropped open. My research had revealed the fact that there are three teams (or classes) of disease fighting defenses in the human body. I can't remember the details now, but the fact that she knew this instinctively indicated that the process could work. She gave up, though, and I could not understand why, until I tried it myself. It s an extrememly mentally demanding task. It almost seems as if you go into some kind of trance. I found the experience daunting and unpleasant.

Maybe a person could learn to channel their mind to make the experience not such a chore. Maybe this is similar to TM. I don't know.

[the captain]

Yeah, but Lance had it everywhere - brain, lungs, liver. He was given a 0% chance of recovery.

Are you sure?

The below is taken from http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/lance.html. It does not seem to indicate a 0% chance, but a 60-85% chance.

"Lance Armstrong Press Conference

"Statement - October 8, 1996 I would like to thank everyone for coming and for calling in to hear what I have to say today. I have some news regarding my health to share with you.
On Wednesday, October 2nd, I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. Prior to seeing my doctor last week, I had been experiencing swelling and pain in one of my testicles and had coughed up some blood. On Thursday, October 3rd, I underwent surgery at St. David's Hospital here in Austin to have the malignant testicle removed and the surgery was successful. A CT-Scan was also performed the same day. The CT-Scan revealed that my condition has spread into my lungs and abdomen. In terms of degrees of the disease, my condition is considered to be advanced and, thus, yesterday I began my first day of chemotherapy treatment.

"I will undergo chemotherapy for at least nine weeks and then, depending on how I respond to the treatment, may have to undergo more chemotherapy or other procedures to fight this disease. I have the utmost faith in all the doctors with whom I am working and I am determined to fight this disease and to prevail. I would like to say a special thank you to the staff at St. David's hospital for making my stay there as comfortable as possible and for protecting my privacy until I was prepared to share this news with the press.

"Due to this consideration, I have been able to speak with all of my sponsors, with Team Motorola, and with my new team, Team Cofidis, prior to this press conference.

"My oncologist, Dr. Dudley J. Youman, was unable to be here today. However, he has told me that the cure rate for testicular cancer in the advanced stage is between 60% and 85%. Further, if I do beat this disease I have been assured that there is no reason that I cannot make a full and complete recovery."

[donutbandit]

Maybe Fox News just lied to me.

[SloopJohnB]

Maybe Fox News just lied to me.

That wouldn't be the first time.

[Jay]

I had an aunt that died of the same thing Carl had.  She had lung cancer that spread to the brain. Once she was diagnosed with the brain tumor, she was given only four months to live. She died two weeks later. So that shows you just how dire Carl's condition was.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Given the recollections of those here who recall Carl looking unwell late 95/early 96 and the nature of the disease, it increasingly seems that the official announcement of his illness (April 1997) was made because the prognosis was terminal.

[Fun Is In]

I think you've hit the nail on the head AGD. That's how it seemed to me at the time.

As long as they can function at a reasonable level, many people don't want to spread the news about their having cancer. They'd rather maintain their position in the world as a person than become a "patient" or "victim" in the public eye. For some it may be denial but for most it's a desire to maintain their humanity, personhood and privacy.

[tpesky]

Which to me would also help explain why by 96, decisions were being made in the band more and more by Mike Love and Carl was taking a much more passive role (much to Al's chagrin) because he was already facing a huge battle in the cancer

[Emdeeh]

Here's the odd thing, tho. It's true that Carl didn't want to make his diagnosis public in '97, but had his hand tipped for him. A tabloid reporter was "following" his mother-in-law Jeanne Martin and found her at the hospital with Gina and Carl, and that's how the story leaked.

Carl was suffering from other conditions in '95 -- serious back pain and gout, that I know of. I sensed something was wrong with him in late '96, but he hadn't been diagnosed then and wasn't undergoing treatment. I don't see how he could have covered up his illness in public once it became obvious he was experiencing the side effects of chemo and radiation. If he had been treated for something serious earlier, it would have to be something where the treatment didn't show obvious side effects.