? for Peter Carlin, Alan Boyd et all - Brian in concert 1981 -1982

[MBE]

Cool stories. Bruce has seemed to change over the years hasn't he.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

That's one way to put it :/

[petsite]

I think that Bruce has changed. He has become a lot "harder" and I think that comes with the territory of working with this group. Mike Love is the "evil" one, but, I don't think that an "evil" person could write the lyrics to "Warmth Of The Sun", "Let The Wind Blow", "Only With You" and others. Jeff Foskett said it best in an interview that Mike became wary of everyone around him and became more cynical. When ever I get pissed at Mike (which I do ALOT), especially when I think about him in terms of SMiLE, I have to remember how I would feel if I saw my cousin and bandmate indulging himself, pulling away from his family, and hanging with a group of "losers" like the people back then. I'd be pissed and cranky too when they would be around. The lawsuits? You write the words to California Girls and be told they you aren't getting paid for them and your co-writer is not busting his ass to make it right (of course the co-writer's father is the whole reason why).

And, I know that the 60's were suppose to be this magical time when all the "groovyness" was happening (If I have to read one more Priore rant about that, I am gonna puke). But, come on. You go back and look at the Beautiful Dreamer DVD. With the exception of Van Dyke and David Anderle (who I respect more and more as tiem goes on), is there any of those people in Brian's group (Loren, Paul Robbins, Vosse, etc) that didn't want to make you take a shower afterwards. Loren will ALWAYS be a slimeball in my book. Loren cares about Loren. No one else. The way he acts is ALMOST socio-pathic. Brian tells about taking LSD and really freaking and being scared. To Loren, Brian's fear is a punchline to an joke. THAT moment alone says more about Loren than anythign else Leaf could do. And while these people may be heroes to Leaf, Priore and others, they are just leaches lookign to suck off of the most truly gifted  and most naive artists of our times. So if Mike or Bruce or anyone changes, there is always a reason. But, the reason doesn't excuse Mike or Bruce from there own actions against Brian. All the wrongs back and forth don't make a write.

Bob

[MBE]

The sixties were a cool time, but Brian fell in with a bad crowd. What Leaf and Priore fall to understand is that it was those men and not the Beach Boys that created the real problems.. I don't mean to disparage Domenic as a person because he also has some major problems with Leaf and his outlooks. I just don't hate the other Beach Boys and think he let's how he feels color some of his otherwise excellent research.

Mike seems to be more of decent person then Bruce perhaps because he knew what is was like to be kicked out of his house, and have his parents loose a considerable amount of money to where they had to struggle. Mike's attitude is partially motivated by those trauma's. To have nothing at all, he craves fiscal security and has let his obsession with it take him down some questinable roads. Bruce had a silver spoon in his mouth and seems to be just shallow and greedy. Mike still seems to have a decent streak in him, but (not counting his justified songwriting claims) has been far too litigious. Bruce used to be known as being fairly nice to fans. He still can be, but over the years has seemed to developed a genuine split personality. From talking to people that have worked with, he seems to have real problems emotionally. David Marks' book tells us a lot about that.

[Ian]

Yes- I agree with some of what you've said...But..it was 1967 "The Summer of Love."  When discussing Brian and "his crowd" in isolation, it is easy to forget that this behavior didn't happen in a vacum.   Most bands of that time were experimenting with chemicals and losing interest in the "single" and concentrating on ambitious albums- The Beatles "Sgt Pepper," The Stones "Satanic Majesties," The Byrds "Younger Than Yesterday and Notorious Byrd Brothers," Small faces, Donovan, Kinks "Something Else" and Village Green. The Who "Who Sell Out" and "Tommy" . I think that the problem Brian had in 67 had someting to do with the fact that the rest of the group was not on the same trip at all....They still wanted to go out and have fun like 1965, but it was 1967.  The fact that the group became uhip overnight, had to do with their failure to change with the times-as Brian wanted to do.  The group was still touring in striped shirts in Oct 1967! They really failed to understand the politics and profound changes in young people that occurred from 66-69.  It was only by embracing these changes in late 1970 that they began to turn things around.  Van Dyke Parks and that crowd were far more in tune with the scene in 67-71 than Mike Love. 

[Mr. Wilson]

Im gonna come at this from different perspective..EXCEPT i generally agree with MOST statements...I grew up in those times and experienced the whole hippie love + peace thing + drugs..I didnt read about it ..I DID it...!! What bothers me about Loren is this:..When BW was wiggin out on  LSD + went in bedroom + buried his face in pillow + cried....NOT the time for BW to be alone.. He is LUCKY he is STILL here with us...Loren is an ASS..I used ALL the mind altering stuff from that period...EXcuse me..BW should not have been alone.. When your on a bum trip you need support + SOMETHING to bring U down..Alcohol Or downers...What scares u is the trip is runnin in your mind at 78.. When you started on 33 1/3.. It becomes overwelming...!!! Your engulfed..!! Thats why so many people killed themselves or became very different afterward..Examples..Syd Barrett..Peter Green..Jeremy Spencer..Danny Kirwain...BW..Pete Townsend.. Just off the top off my head.. The list is MUCH longer.. Loren may have been trippin but he still knew what was goin on...He blew BW off..When i saw that in BD.. I realized.. Loren is partially to blame..He wasnt there for BW.. And he laughs about it now..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..Bw may have took it himself but loren wasnt there for him...Not the kind of friends Id want.. The one time i had a bad trip..I NEVER took it again..EVER..BW should have never takin it again...Thats HIS fault..And as far as all his friends bein losers..NAH.. Friends havin a good time + usin him to pay for the highs.. I think they did help  him expanded musically... See beyond Hawthorne.. There is picture in Leaf book of BW in book store on hollywood blvd.. Take a good look at the books in his hands + on shelves..BW was reading amazing stuff and i think he was becoming a heavyweight..But something happened.. And he changed..I could post more  but ill wait for response.. This is a sore subject to me..What was.. what is..What it could have been..

[petsite]

My point exactly. I didn't do ANY drugs at all. Even though all around me seemed to be. I was a straight!. But, I met many, many, many people like Loren when I was growing up as a teen in the 70s. That kind of arrogant "I know all, see all,take this to expand your mind" kinda guys. And then they would have fun at the person's exerpience when they were high.

I do have to relate one story that still makes me smile to this day. I was at a party in '76 (I was 17) and everyoen was higher than SkyLab at the time. And some of the guys were hitting on my girlfirend, hoping to get her stoned so they could....you know. Any way, I asked if I could put on some BB music. As they were making a comeback at this time, everyone said yeah!!!! Could I turn out the lights? Yeah!!! So I proceed to put on my own mix of Cool Cool Water.  The opening part went find and everyone was grooving. Then the water chant hit. I expanded out the Water Chant section to about 2 mins at the radio station studio I was interning at. With the lights out, the stoners were coming unglued. "Bob, Bob, what is this?? I am freaking out!!! Bob........" I flipped on the light as the "Cool Cool cooling me" started, saying an inocent "What? Whats wrong. Its the BB for gosh sakes!"

Everyone was shook for the rest of the evening. Everyone but my girlfriend and me.

Bob

[Wilsonista]

Great story, Bob!

Mr. Wilson: I think I can agree with your assesment. I wasn't even born in the 60's, but I think when discussing the effects of drugs and the culture on Brian, I think it's better to defer to someone who was actually young during the 60's and who actually participated in the culture to provide an understanding for the figures that seem now to be "undesirables".  Just dismissing the Posse outright (and using them as THE SOLE example for the counterculture) is the same as not giving that era a fair trial.  Someone like our friend Bob Hanes could and has posted about the clash of the Hawthorne/60's Sunset Strip cultures.

[Mr. Wilson]

Interesting.. Stoners flip out on CCW..??!!..LOL..!!..That song should cool you out not wig out...Also back then Surfs Up + Holland were COOl Lp's to smoke herb to..Very Common in those days...And i totally agree with Ian about what he posted
We were INNOCENT back then..We were breaking new ground..NO LIMITS... I kinda miss those times..Exciting..Brave new world..BUT..The hard drugs gotta go..Look what we got now..In the world.. Yea Bob Hanes is good dude..talked to him on phone couple of times..Played me some stuff..A few yrs ago..He made me aware that Little Bird has BW uncredited co writer + there are snippets of SMILE in mid section i believe....Great to be posting on this board again..!!..Its been 4 1/2 yrs..Peace to all..Paul

[MBE]

Yes- I agree with some of what you've said...But..it was 1967 "The Summer of Love."  When discussing Brian and "his crowd" in isolation, it is easy to forget that this behavior didn't happen in a vacuum.   Most bands of that time were experimenting with chemicals and losing interest in the "single" and concentrating on ambitious albums- The Beatles "Sgt Pepper," The Stones "Satanic Majesties," The Byrds "Younger Than Yesterday and Notorious Byrd Brothers," Small faces, Donovan, Kinks "Something Else" and Village Green. The Who "Who Sell Out" and "Tommy" . I think that the problem Brian had in 67 had someting to do with the fact that the rest of the group was not on the same trip at all....They still wanted to go out and have fun like 1965, but it was 1967.  The fact that the group became uhip overnight, had to do with their failure to change with the times-as Brian wanted to do.  The group was still touring in striped shirts in Oct 1967! They really failed to understand the politics and profound changes in young people that occurred from 66-69.  It was only by embracing these changes in late 1970 that they began to turn things around.  Van Dyke Parks and that crowd were far more in tune with the scene in 67-71 than Mike Love. 

I think Mr. Wilson pointed some of this out but I think it's partially  the environment in which Brian experimented as opposed to the experimenting itself. Most of these guys jumped on Brian's bandwagon without giving much back. Loren is the worst expample easily. People like Van Dyke were a different story as they worked hard to keep Brian on track.

The Beach Boys belong in the positive category because they also worked very hard. Brian sometimes wore hip clothes as did all the group, but mainly he wore tee shirts and white slacks. If you notice in 1970-72 he is the one that has changed the least as far as his appearance. He was wearing the stripped shirts right along with them in  1967 in Hawaii so I don't really think he was any more in tune with the times then they were or any less. Brian was just in tune with himself and what was going on in his head was very advanced. Some of it went over the Beach Boys head, but they did fall back in sync with each other soon enough. Much of what they did in the late sixties as a group (one that still included Brian in a key role) was also ahead of it's time. Brian himself told me that it was a very good time for the group creatively.

Listening to interviews with Mike and the rest from the late sixties he was and the rest were very in tune with the times. They just didn't change enough externally, and didn't want to jump on any trends that weren't true to themselves.  All those albums you mentioned are great though I would argue that Something Else and Sell Out are pop in the best possible sense of the word and both had hit singles. Among this group, I don't think Wild Honey or Friends was out of place at all, it was simply the American market not willing to let the Beach Boys to expand. Remember they were seen as cutting edge in the rest of the world at this time. What happened in late 1970 is that they played up to the hippie market more, but their music had stayed advanced the whole time.

[Mr. Wilson]

LOL..!! Everyone was higher than Skylab...JEEZ..Thats FUNNY...!!!

[Aegir]

Bruce had a silver spoon in his mouth and seems to be just shallow and greedy.[...]Bruce used to be known as being fairly nice to fans. He still can be, but over the years has seemed to developed a genuine split personality. From talking to people that have worked with, he seems to have real problems emotionally. David Marks' book tells us a lot about that.

I haven't read the David Marks book (plan to eventually) or talked to anyone "in the know" but Bruce never seemed like a bad person to me. Sure, he was born into money but he's never seemed all that bad to me in any videos or anything. But I guess I just don't know as much. What has he done?