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Author Topic: Lyricists...  (Read 4569 times)
Jonas
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« on: August 20, 2007, 12:57:39 PM »

Ive got 4 songs written for an EP and pretty much everything is done except I dont have lyrics. (I have the vocal melodies/harmonies down...)

Every time I try to write lyrics they come out so trite and lame...what are some pointers from the lyricists on this board?

I could really use some help!

thanks
-J
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the captain
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 02:00:43 PM »

I can only speak for myself, and I know that while most people who like my music say the primary reason for it is the lyrics, many others think my lyrics are stupid. So you have to take my point of view with a grain of salt.

The main part of my lyrical style is to write lyrics that I might just say in conversation, or write as a letter. I try not to write them as lyrics, necessarily.

Saying anything other than what I actually want to say is, in my opinion, one of the biggest sins. (I'm far more verbose in posts here than in songs.) Even if the words you intend the song to get across are simple, I say leave it simple. Forcing ambitious wordplay, forcing grand scope or melodrama, or forcing thoughts into any lyrical cliche are things I try hard to avoid.

I also try pretty hard not to use much slang--even substituting "ya" for "you," for example--unless it's something that would really be a part of my speech. I think that trying to sound cool, or sound like a songwriter/lyricsist, can make you a worse lyricist than (as I said earlier) just saying it.

Regarding rhyming, I think it's better to not rhyme something than to force a rhyme that sounds awkward. I find that people stress the incorrect syllables of words just to make rhymes fit, and I definitely would avoid that.

There you have it, my general thoughts. Good luck.
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 02:03:52 PM »

Thanks Luther! You gave me some ideas!!

When you write it in a letter/conversation form, do you listen to the music while doing it? Or do you just write it out and go from there?

take care
-J
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We would like to record under an atmosphere of calmness. - Brian Wilson
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1IgXT3xFdU
the captain
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 02:34:37 PM »


When you write it in a letter/conversation form, do you listen to the music while doing it? Or do you just write it out and go from there?


Often it comes about with a specific lyric that seems to naturally fit a specific piece of music--we'll call that "inspiration" (for lack of a better word, not because I in any way think I've got divine intervention going on in my songs). Either while playing a progression, vamp, etc., or listening to an older segment of music, I think of something that just fits. Generally, though, it would be just a fragment. Then once I have that, I think about that word or line and do the rest of the music. I very rarely would consider a piece of music done until I have finished both lyrics and music, as I don't like to have to cram either one to fit the other. I am more likely to get that first "inspired" combination of music and lyrics, and then build the song around that using any number of possibilities.

For example, I once did a Latin-tinged chord progression that went as below, with each chord lasting four beats and particular emphasis on 2 and the and of 3:

iii-7 ... V13/ii ... Vmaj7/V ... v-7/V ... V13 ... Imaj7

As I played that relatively slowly--actually thinking about Queen's "Who Needs You," which sounds nothing like what ended up happening--I decided I wanted to write a song that was sort of filled with some mock bragadoccio--Freddie Mercury, you know, always going off at the mouth but tongue-in-cheek. So I ended up singing the line:

"Nobody believes me that my old girlfriend was a beauty queen, but she was. Well, she was."

That was my in. I knew now I would be sort of passive-aggressively bragging to my audience that I had dated a beauty queen, and yet come across as pathetic, as any listener would think, "well, even if that's true, who cares? You aren't anymore, and yet here you're obsessing about it!"

So with that idea, I repeated that chord progression while coming up with other possible lines. These would be verses (although plenty got thrown away). I decided I only needed one other musical segment to this song because it was kind of a one-joke song. I didn't want to belabor it. So I did the words to a refrain, then music to match. But if I would've had music done on that latter segment, I would've first thought, 'what do I want this segment to do?' I might even have written it without considering the music, or even necessarily writing real lyrics--just the point of it. Then I'd pay attention to the music again and decide whether I could say what I meant, or even certain words and phrases that were evocative of the idea.

Anyway, summary and directly answering the question: yes, I'd listen to the part that really initially hooked me and write around that. Then I'd take it away and write based on the lyric, then return to the musical ideas and see if I could make it all work together. But I'd try not to force it--I'd rather change the lyrics or music than smash them together.
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Jonas
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 02:40:44 PM »

Right on, Luther. Thanks for the input!
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