Still Cruisin'/Summer in Paradise Two-fer?

[Awesoman]

Honestly, instead of just remastering Still Cruisin', they could simply make a compilation of their 80's/90's material.  In addition to the Still Cruisin' stuff, they could add the following songs:

California Dreamin'
Problem Child
Chasin' The Sky
Crocodile Rock
Rock & Roll To The Rescue
Lady Liberty
Live version of "Runaway"
Happy Endings (with Little Richard!)
Don't Worry Baby (with the Everly Brothers)
California Girls (live)

Am I missing anything?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Honestly, instead of just remastering Still Cruisin', they could simply make a compilation of their 80's/90's material.  In addition to the Still Cruisin' stuff, they could add the following songs:

California Dreamin'
Problem Child
Chasin' The Sky
Crocodile Rock
Rock & Roll To The Rescue
Lady Liberty
Live version of "Runaway"
Happy Endings (with Little Richard!)
Don't Worry Baby (with the Everly Brothers)
California Girls (live)

Am I missing anything?

I'd buy that too!  I'd buy anything 'new'.

[Myk Luhv]

Of course there's good stuff after 1980. Gets hard to find at times, but there are good tracks on BB85, and Still Cruisin has "Somewhere Near Japan." SIP is pretty tough going, but Al has some nice moments, and the title track had a good live version in the late 90s.

I guess it comes down to -- basically -- if you like the BBs for their brilliant work alone. I think a lot of folks here -- myself included -- crossed a barrier when it comes to albums like Love You and some of 15BO, when you begin to love them for the whacked-out moments too. And it's a short distance from there to listening to "Problem Child."

See, the thing is that I can get behind Love You and Smiley Smile -- surely their most contentious albums -- and even Adult Child (and I do like BW88, but it's not a BBs album). I especially adore Love You, actually, for think it combines the freewheeling nature of the pre-Today! Beach Boys with the meticulous (more or less) studio-craft Beach Boys of '65-'67 remarkably well. Thing is: do people honestly think things like "Match Point of Our Love" or "She Believes in Love Again" or "Livin' with a Heartache" are good songs? I mean, sure it's odd to use tennis as an extended metaphor for a troubled relationship, for instance, but it's not done well nor is the song compelling in any way beyond the novelty value of that conceit -- and not much of a good novelty either; one which wears its welcome out pretty quickly. And I say this as someone whose first purchased Beach Boys album was Surf's Up (because it showed me that they were far more versatile than their imagine obviously suggested) while thinking "Take a Load off Your Feet" is an enjoyable song!

[As a side-note, I will mention how I am in awe that Brian Wilson appears to be having a third (fourth? fifth?) renaissance: the "product" has been at least compelling from Smile onwards...]

[the captain]

I think there's just a certain point in fandom when it stops being remotely objective. (Of course people can and do argue whether enjoyment of any art is ever objective. We'll skip that for now.) And so once "you're in," sometimes it's just grasping for what's there. My opinion is that's the case with Beach Boys fans and their lesser material. Because at the end of the day there's always that Carl Wilson vocal or that good-time, summer feeling that is enough to remind a listener about the better material through which s/he fell in love in the first place. I'd say most people on a board like this are guilty of that to some extent ... but some more than others. Count me in the camp that would not pay for a SC/SIP twofer.

[Wirestone]

Part of it is learning to ignore the lyrics. If you ever take latter-day BB lyrics (and this is from Pet Sounds on, really) seriously, you're listening to the wrong band. So on matchpoint, yeah, the lyrics are stupid. But hey -- Brian sounds great! And the little "matchpoint -- matchpoint" backing vox are killer.

But, you know, "Feel Flows" has really stupid lyrics too. As does "Long Promised Road." And any number of other BB classics. And try playing "Solar System" to anyone who's not a fan / doesn't know the story. They'll laugh at you.

And no, "She Believes in Love Again" is not a great song. But "Where I Belong" is excellent. And "Matchpoint" may fall short, but "My Diane" is awesome. And much of Still Cruisin is dreck, but I can't ignore SNJ, and I love hearing Carl sing on an late-80s BW track (In My Car) -- one can fantasize about him on BW88.

But yeah, it is interesting how much less cringe-worthy BW has been as a solo artist. He's really only put out one clunker (the dreaded GIOMH, although I've spent dozens of posts defending it). Most of his stuff has easily eclipsed those latter-day BB albums.

[Stegibo]

And much of Still Cruisin is dreck,(...)

I'm always surprised how many German words the English language has! 

[Myk Luhv]

I think there's just a certain point in fandom when it stops being remotely objective. (Of course people can and do argue whether enjoyment of any art is ever objective. We'll skip that for now.) And so once "you're in," sometimes it's just grasping for what's there. My opinion is that's the case with Beach Boys fans and their lesser material. Because at the end of the day there's always that Carl Wilson vocal or that good-time, summer feeling that is enough to remind a listener about the better material through which s/he fell in love in the first place. I'd say most people on a board like this are guilty of that to some extent ... but some more than others. Count me in the camp that would not pay for a SC/SIP twofer.

Yeah, I get that aspect. Yet it seems to me that if you're listening to a song with scraps of "that Carl Wilson vocal" or a "good-time, summer feeling" which only serve to remind you of their songs where there are these qualities in abundance rather than in mere deposits... you could also just as well listen to the superior cuts by that band and forgo the stuff that is merely 'okay' if not worse.

Part of it is learning to ignore the lyrics. If you ever take latter-day BB lyrics (and this is from Pet Sounds on, really) seriously, you're listening to the wrong band. So on matchpoint, yeah, the lyrics are stupid. But hey -- Brian sounds great! And the little "matchpoint -- matchpoint" backing vox are killer.

But, you know, "Feel Flows" has really stupid lyrics too. As does "Long Promised Road." And any number of other BB classics. And try playing "Solar System" to anyone who's not a fan / doesn't know the story. They'll laugh at you.

And no, "She Believes in Love Again" is not a great song. But "Where I Belong" is excellent. And "Matchpoint" may fall short, but "My Diane" is awesome. And much of Still Cruisin is dreck, but I can't ignore SNJ, and I love hearing Carl sing on an late-80s BW track (In My Car) -- one can fantasize about him on BW88.

But yeah, it is interesting how much less cringe-worthy BW has been as a solo artist. He's really only put out one clunker (the dreaded GIOMH, although I've spent dozens of posts defending it). Most of his stuff has easily eclipsed those latter-day BB albums.

There are lyrics from any Beach Boys albums (1962-77) that are worthwhile even if they're not as on-point as Today! or Pet Sounds; you don't need to ignore the Beach Boys' lyrics to enjoy their music and I think for the most part they did a surprisingly good job with their words. Both of the songs you singled out from Surf's Up do have terrible lyrics, but "'Til I Die" and even, say, "Disney Girls" have fine lyrics. (Similarly, "The Night Was So Young" and "Airplane" on Love You have good lyrics.) Obviously, none of the BBs profess any particular affinity for lyrics, if they cared at all -- they were, after all, a pop group so the sound or "feel" was more important ultimately -- but they could write at least passable direct lyrics much of the time. My point, however, was more that there was something about songs the Beach Boys released that (for a time) made even their slightest material compelling, and that this was lacking from 1978 onwards. Sure, "Solar System" has bad lyrics, but they're at least ridiculous and married to a highly inventive and interesting rhythm + melody. The same cannot be said of "Match Point of Our Love", unfortunately...

[oldsurferdude]

Honestly, instead of just remastering Still Cruisin', they could simply make a compilation of their 80's/90's material.  In addition to the Still Cruisin' stuff, they could add the following songs:

California Dreamin'
Problem Child
Chasin' The Sky
Crocodile Rock
Rock & Roll To The Rescue
Lady Liberty
Live version of "Runaway"
Happy Endings (with Little Richard!)
Don't Worry Baby (with the Everly Brothers)
California Girls (live)

Am I missing anything?

No, good list but it would be better if RRTTR would self destruct immediately.

[Wirestone]

O -- you're doing a great job in distinguishing between a person who enjoys the Beach Boys for their good stuff and someone who is a diehard fan.

That is, between someone who is sane and well-adjusted and has genuine musical taste and standards and someone who seeks out alternate mixes of "Smart Girls."

The first group sounds like you, and that's fine. You will be a much happier and more fulfilled person. I, on the other hand, am going back to listen to the "Make it Big" sessions five-CD set.

[the captain]

I think there's just a certain point in fandom when it stops being remotely objective. (Of course people can and do argue whether enjoyment of any art is ever objective. We'll skip that for now.) And so once "you're in," sometimes it's just grasping for what's there. My opinion is that's the case with Beach Boys fans and their lesser material. Because at the end of the day there's always that Carl Wilson vocal or that good-time, summer feeling that is enough to remind a listener about the better material through which s/he fell in love in the first place. I'd say most people on a board like this are guilty of that to some extent ... but some more than others. Count me in the camp that would not pay for a SC/SIP twofer.

Yeah, I get that aspect. Yet it seems to me that if you're listening to a song with scraps of "that Carl Wilson vocal" or a "good-time, summer feeling" which only serve to remind you of their songs where there are these qualities in abundance rather than in mere deposits... you could also just as well listen to the superior cuts by that band and forgo the stuff that is merely 'okay' if not worse.

Hey, I'm more or less with you on this. But for a certain type of fan, what's there is never enough: people want there to be more, so once they've consumed Pet Sounds, they don't necessarily want to listen to Pet Sounds again--they want there to be Pet Sounds in another album. (Actually this was the genesis of my Beach Boys fan experience, starting from PS/Smile material and expanding in both directions, first to find the hints or leftovers of those, but later appreciating what quality I found elsewhere for its own sake.) And so every new release, every newly exposed unreleased track, is going to be THE ONE.

[Myk Luhv]

O -- you're doing a great job in distinguishing between a person who enjoys the Beach Boys for their good stuff and someone who is a diehard fan.

That is, between someone who is sane and well-adjusted and has genuine musical taste and standards and someone who seeks out alternate mixes of "Smart Girls."

The first group sounds like you, and that's fine. You will be a much happier and more fulfilled person. I, on the other hand, am going back to listen to the "Make it Big" sessions five-CD set.

Pfft, everyone knows the only worthwhile version of "Smart Girls" is the one with sampling in it.

Hey, I'm more or less with you on this. But for a certain type of fan, what's there is never enough: people want there to be more, so once they've consumed Pet Sounds, they don't necessarily want to listen to Pet Sounds again--they want there to be Pet Sounds in another album. (Actually this was the genesis of my Beach Boys fan experience, starting from PS/Smile material and expanding in both directions, first to find the hints or leftovers of those, but later appreciating what quality I found elsewhere for its own sake.) And so every new release, every newly exposed unreleased track, is going to be THE ONE.

I get this -- I do, after all, still listen to stuff released both before and after Pet Sounds. Holland, for instance, has virtually no Pet Sounds/Smile vibe to it but it is still an excellent album. I think that is part of the problem with the Beach Boys, however: there will not be another Pet Sounds, ever, and when people keep measuring everything up to that one album (to say nothing of the mythos surrounding Brian Wilson), it is to an extent pernicious for the artist(s). I think it is safe to say that there were an innumerable number of conditions which all obtained at the same moment that produced this beautiful work which cannot be separated analytically (completely and also) profitably (this is born out by, e.g., the tomes dedicated to the history of the music of this group, let alone just Brian Wilson, as well as forums like this one). Such conditions will not obtain again, I also reckon. Though there might be glimmers of this in both pre- and post-Pet Sounds material (including Smile) but to pine for something that might attain the nigh-perfection of that album after 1966-67 seems misguided and belies a grasp of the historical record. Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin might be the best thing since Pet Sounds, but no one is saying it is equivalent to it, and I think that is telling.

I feel, however, that I should remind y'all that I do still care about things like the unreleased (c. 1969?) recording "Won't You Tell Me?" because has a wonderfully gauzy feel to it that manages to make an otherwise slight song quite compelling and an interesting listen. Essentially, my point is something roughly like this: I think Pet Sounds and Smile are wonderful and Brian Wilson surely proved his gargantuan, genius talent with these projects but I also, at the same time, appreciate that he is no longer completely capable of equalling them but can still make extremely good music even if it is not perfect in the same way -- things might come close, but there will never be "another Pet Sounds". I don't think this is bad, however, and frankly I think Brian would probably like it if people stopped bringing that mythology of his former self up too.

[the captain]

frankly I think Brian would probably like it if people stopped bringing that mythology of his former self up too.

But his management wouldn't. It's harder to sell records without it.

[Wirestone]

I think artists that are Brian's age tend to succeed best when they do something that is quite distinct from their youthful work -- Dylan really set the mold with his 90s-00s albums, which are great but totally different from his 60s LPs. Tom Waits, though somewhat younger, has also reinvented himself as ancient avant-gardist.

Brian has just never had the interest (or concentration) to move into something entirely different. His personal struggles probably influenced this, but he's still largely interested in the sounds and forms of music from the 60s. This means he interacts with his old work all the time -- but it's an older, sicker dude doing it. And that's tough. The Gershwin thing -- for the first time -- has him really working with music from another time, with different stylistic requirements. It might be why it engaged him so much.

[doc smiley]

Would like to hear a version of Happy Endings without Little Richard on it.....

wonder if there's a version in the archives like that?  Still not a great song but uggh, can't stand Little Richards voice on that one..

[mtaber]

Summer in Paradise with bonus tracks would be like going to the dentist to have all your teeth pulled and then finding out you actually have 8 extra teeth you never knew about...

[mtaber]

...and no, I still have never actually listened to SIP...

[Myk Luhv]

I think artists that are Brian's age tend to succeed best when they do something that is quite distinct from their youthful work -- Dylan really set the mold with his 90s-00s albums, which are great but totally different from his 60s LPs. Tom Waits, though somewhat younger, has also reinvented himself as ancient avant-gardist.

Brian has just never had the interest (or concentration) to move into something entirely different. His personal struggles probably influenced this, but he's still largely interested in the sounds and forms of music from the 60s. This means he interacts with his old work all the time -- but it's an older, sicker dude doing it. And that's tough. The Gershwin thing -- for the first time -- has him really working with music from another time, with different stylistic requirements. It might be why it engaged him so much.

This right here is a sensible post (especially the bit about Gershwin's music and its effects on Brian). I had got the impression about Brian though that he was perfectly willing to work within the constraints of '60s pop because, honestly, that's what he does best. At the same time, however, he would presumably like it more if people were concerned about That Lucky Old Sun -- or, now, Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin -- than how he wrote "Surfer Girl" in his car on the way to the studio to work with THE BEACH BOYS. Then again, we saw how well Howlin' Wolf and Bo Diddley "adapted" to funk and psych rock music; at least Brian's management isn't making him do something analogous!

[the captain]

He has already done "something analogous": BW88.

[Jon Stebbins]

Summer in Paradise with bonus tracks would be like going to the dentist to have all your teeth pulled and then finding out you actually have 8 extra teeth you never knew about...

word

[Wirestone]

Oh, I think he does the 60s thing best too. But you see in Smile and immediately after a searching for something different, structure wise. And some of the 80s material -- at times -- seems to be stretching in a different direction (I always wonder about songs like "Walkin' the Line" and "In My Car" -- they sound impossibly ambitious and driving yet stupid at the same time, and I wonder if Brian didn't have something great in him in that style).

But if the current day Brian ultimately makes music that is comfortable and familiar, then it means writers ask about the earlier music it resembles. And it's partly his fault -- I personally interviewed the man and tried to get him to talk about his work of the 90s and 2000s. He refused. Not interested. You can see it in his interview about TLOS with Scott Bennett -- Scott talks about all the inspiration of "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl," and Brian just says: "It's about how I still love my wife." And that's it.

[Myk Luhv]

Oh, I think he does the 60s thing best too. But you see in Smile and immediately after a searching for something different, structure wise. And some of the 80s material -- at times -- seems to be stretching in a different direction (I always wonder about songs like "Walkin' the Line" and "In My Car" -- they sound impossibly ambitious and driving yet stupid at the same time, and I wonder if Brian didn't have something great in him in that style).

But if the current day Brian ultimately makes music that is comfortable and familiar, then it means writers ask about the earlier music it resembles. And it's partly his fault -- I personally interviewed the man and tried to get him to talk about his work of the 90s and 2000s. He refused. Not interested. You can see it in his interview about TLOS with Scott Bennett -- Scott talks about all the inspiration of "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl," and Brian just says: "It's about how I still love my wife." And that's it.

Hmm, guess I need to do more research before runnin' my mouth, haha. If he didn't want to talk about his new stuff or his "reawakening" stuff... what does he like to talk about, his-own-music-wise? Surely not The Beach Boys for the rest of his life?

[the captain]

Norbitt.

[Wirestone]

I don't think he's especially verbal about music to begin with, and writers -- because we have to write something -- will use what we can. And sometimes he says more than other times -- he talked quite a bit about certain aspects of TLOS, but never in the detail that fans would appreciate.

But yeah. I thought I would do a different kind of interview, with different kinds of questions. And so I asked him about his recent work. I asked which of his recent songs were his favorites. He said none, he liked them all. I asked what had inspired him to be so creatively active in recent years, and he said, and I quote: "My keyboard sounds so good it makes me write good songs."

(That being said, he's far more aware than people think. I remember an interview he did with All Music in the early 2000s, and he talked about BW88 and said "I know some people think I sabotaged my voice on that album, but I did the best I could" -- and I was like, "Wait. That's pretty self-aware, Mr. Wilson. Have you been sneaking off and reading reviews of your work online or something?")

[runnersdialzero]

But, you know, "Feel Flows" has really stupid lyrics too. As does "Long Promised Road."

How do either of those songs have "stupid lyrics"? Unremarkable, maybe, if it's not the style you're into. But stupid???

[Myk Luhv]

If you actually think "Feel Flows" or "Long Promised Road" have lyrics that are not just meant to sound cool together with the music at best or are psychobabble at worst... well, you just might be a true fan!