Smile era stuff

[Roger Ryan]

His not wanting it released was entirely down to reasons of his own personal safety, as mentioned in a previous post, ergo he had no problem with it being released in countries where he was not living. But in the uk, where he did live, he didn't want the film on the market. Whether this was irrasional, eccentric, ridiculous etc is besides the point - that is what he wanted, and i just think they were a bit TOO hasty to so blatantly go against his wishes the second he'd snuffed it..

I guess they figured since he was deceased, Kubrick wouldn't be as concerned about his personal safety! 

thomasogg - it was not my intention to rile you up; the re-release of "Clockwork" in the U.K. was not news in the U.S. so I didn't understand your original reference to it. I'm a pretty big fan of the director, and was aware that he pulled the film for personal reasons back in '71 or '72, but did not realize he had not softened his stance nearly 30 years later. Welcome to the board and thank you for your posts!

[Dancing Bear]

That's life. If Brian passed away tomorrow, I bet my hat that 66/67 Smile would be released in some shape in 2008.

[thomasogg]

Then roll on Brian's death, eh? Eh?!!









That was a joke

[smile-holland]

Then roll on Brian's death, eh? Eh?!!


That was a joke

albeit not the best (and most sensitive) one I've heard lately ...

[Bill Barnyard]

Iggy and Alice Cooper refer to visiting Brian while he was remixing 'Pet Sounds'. Did Brian ever remix PS himself; for the Warner reissues of the early 70's perhaps?

 

[Roger Ryan]

Iggy and Alice Cooper refer to visiting Brian while he was remixing 'Pet Sounds'. Did Brian ever remix PS himself; for the Warner reissues of the early 70's perhaps?

 

I seriously doubt anyone was involved in remixing "Pet Sounds" (to mono again) in the early 70s, but it's likely Brian over saw a "remastering" of the album for release on Warners. That would fit the Cooper/Pop timeline better!

[Chris Moise]

What I don't understand is if BW was OK with 30 minutes of Smile stuff on the GV box why would he be so against other tracks from the sessions? Is CITFOTM or Old Master Painter somehow more disturbing to him than Do You Like Worms?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The 30 minutes was dictated by the rest of the box - the compilers would have loved to have had more Smile stuff, but there was a lot of other material to include. "Fire" was a a concious omission. It took some days and a lot of persuasion to get Brian to agree to have any Smile tracks on the box at all.

[peerke]

I wish they hadn't included 'Barabara Ann', then we could have had some more Smile instead.

That's the one track I always skip when I play the box set.

[Sheriff John Stone]

What I don't understand is if BW was OK with 30 minutes of Smile stuff on the GV box why would he be so against other tracks from the sessions? Is CITFOTM or Old Master Painter somehow more disturbing to him than Do You Like Worms?

Thank you for asking this question, Chris. That point is often forgotten in the re-telling of Brian's resuurection of SMiLE with BWPS. Brian actually consented to the release of the SMiLE material with the GV boxed set, more than ten years before BWPS, not to mention that most of the stuff had already been released on previous Beach Boys' albums! Was this mentioned in the BWPS DVD?

It was surprising at how little attention those 30 minutes of SMiLE material got, considering, with "Worms" and the "Heroes And Villains Sessions", it was some of the "druggier" SMiLE music...

[endofposts]

What I don't understand is if BW was OK with 30 minutes of Smile stuff on the GV box why would he be so against other tracks from the sessions? Is CITFOTM or Old Master Painter somehow more disturbing to him than Do You Like Worms?

Thank you for asking this question, Chris. That point is often forgotten in the re-telling of Brian's resuurection of SMiLE with BWPS. Brian actually consented to the release of the SMiLE material with the GV boxed set, more than ten years before BWPS, not to mention that most of the stuff had already been released on previous Beach Boys' albums! Was this mentioned in the BWPS DVD?

It was surprising at how little attention those 30 minutes of SMiLE material got, considering, with "Worms" and the "Heroes And Villains Sessions", it was some of the "druggier" SMiLE music...

Brian wasn't that happy with the inclusion of Smile material on those earlier BB albums, "Surf's Up" in particular.  But they went ahead and did it anyways.  Just like I'm sure he had his arm twisted a little to put things out on the boxed set.  His dislike of Smile (at least the original sessions) is something that's been very consistent over the years.  It doesn't change the way some of his other opinions do.  I'm sure the way they got him to do BWPS is by presenting it as cover versions, not the originals.  Even at that, he wound up in an emergency room with a panic attack when they started to do it.   He probably had little to do with picking out the stuff that did wind up on the boxed set, as AGD pointed out.  The selections probably had more to do with what the compilers liked, and space was limited.

[Sheriff John Stone]

He probably had little to do with picking out the stuff that did wind up on the boxed set

Yes! Agreed! That's the point.

But he WOULD have a problem, 15-20 years later, with the same stuff being chosen for another boxed set, a SMiLE boxed set? Why?

[donald]

I'm glad somebody brought up the topic of the SMILE material being released.

I bought a vinyl copy of an updated SOT version of SMILE  a couple of weeks ago.  Had some unreleased stuff along with some 93 box stuff and some other misc pieces.

Once again, listening to this new acquisition, I began to wish for a complete, official release of the entire SMILE archives.

Seems like I'm still discovering bits and pieces I haven't heard.

By the way, I bought this record at Amoeba records on Haight St. in San Francisco.   They had half a dozen copies.

Almost worth it just for the cover.

[Dancing Bear]

He probably had little to do with picking out the stuff that did wind up on the boxed set

Yes! Agreed! That's the point.

But he WOULD have a problem, 15-20 years later, with the same stuff being chosen for another boxed set, a SMiLE boxed set? Why?

For the same reason he hears voices in his head. merda happens.

Someone told here what happened in 1993. Fom memory: Brian's then circle prepared this half-hour of Smile tracks and convinced Brian that it would be presented in the context of the box set, like "Ruby Baby" and "Still I Dream of It". It wasn't meant as a SMILE RELEASE. Then they made sure that he wouldn't give interviews aftewards claiming that the Smile tracks were included against his will. Fire was left out of the deal because they didn't want to blow it.

[Roger Ryan]

Brian's attitude towards the sessions as well as that period of time is different from his attitude toward the songs themselves. He has usually been relatively forthcoming about the songs when addressed out-of-context, but as soon as a discussion turns towards the "SMiLE" album itself, he clams up.

I'll retell one of my favorite Brian interview stories: In 1998, Brian did an on-line interview (streaming audio) with some oldies DJ-type who knew little of the Beach Boys catalog beyond the hits. One embarassing moment came when the interviewer asked Brian if he was proud of writing the hit "Kokomo" so late in his career! Brian responded that he was happy the song was successful by that he neither wrote it nor performed on the single. Later in the interview, Brian was asked if he felt he couldn't compete with the Beatles' more progressive material ("Sgt. Pepper", etc.) since the Beach Boys' strength was simpler songs. Brian was audibly irritated by the question and retorted that he had come up with songs like "Heroes & Villains" and "Surf's Up" which were his attempts to be "more arty".

I've often thought since hearing that interview that maybe the best way to get Brian to respond beyond the usual pat answers is to state outright falsehoods or put him into a position where he's forced to defend his career!

[Andrew G. Doe]

The criteria for inclusion on the 1993 were as follows:

1 - top 40 hits (hence "Barbara-fucking-Ann"
2 - classic non-hits and album tracks
3 - as much quality unreleased stuff as could be unearthed.
4 - tracks culled from lists requested by the compilers from fans worldwide through the fanzines of the time.

This only applied to the 4 main discs: all the tracks on the 5th CD crop up somewhere else on the set and are thus covered by the mechanical liscense. A clever dodge.

[XY]

But don't forget: "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" aka "Fire" was already released in 1984 on An American Band, along with "Bicycle Rider". Didn't Brian have to agree back then? And he was even there for the premiere of the film. Too bad there wasn't a soundtrack album with all the studio outtakes and live songs.

[Mahalo]

Too bad there wasn't a soundtrack album with all the studio outtakes and live songs.

amen to that......

Anyway, on a side note, unless a plethora of tapes containing instrumentals and vocal takes appear, there would never be a feasible "SMiLE 66-67" release....maybe a box set, but nothing of an album that could compare to BWPS. I know, I know....but before you attack me I just want to point out that BWPS, (among other things), has smooth structure and flow, highlighted by the second movement; it has a clean sound compared to the relatively muddy sounds from 66- 67; and there are great lyrics to the songs that were either never given lyrics or they were forgotten. I know a lot of you can't stand the vocals, but I would have to disagree....but that is just a matter of opinion. Personally, I love them, especially Taylors vocals...the album benefits from her voice.

I would love to see a SMiLE era box set, and would even pay a ridiculous amount of money for one, but I don't think a SMiLE 66-67 album is possible...it's a nice thought, though.

[Amy B.]

He probably had little to do with picking out the stuff that did wind up on the boxed set

Yes! Agreed! That's the point.

But he WOULD have a problem, 15-20 years later, with the same stuff being chosen for another boxed set, a SMiLE boxed set? Why?

I think he was involved in picking out tracks for the boxed set...Hence the exclusion of "Let him Run Wild." As far as the SMiLE boxed set goes, releasing original Smile tracks post-2004 could undermine the importance of BWPS. That might be his thinking.

[Bicyclerider]

My understanding is that Brian did not pick out tracks for the 93 box set, but rather had veto power which he exercised over Let Him Run Wild.   The Smile tracks were picked by Leaf and Linnett with input from Priore and others (fan based request lists)

[Andrew G. Doe]

He probably had little to do with picking out the stuff that did wind up on the boxed set

Yes! Agreed! That's the point.

But he WOULD have a problem, 15-20 years later, with the same stuff being chosen for another boxed set, a SMiLE boxed set? Why?

I think he was involved in picking out tracks for the boxed set...Hence the exclusion of "Let him Run Wild." As far as the SMiLE boxed set goes, releasing original Smile tracks post-2004 could undermine the importance of BWPS. That might be his thinking.

Y'know... sometime I wonder why I waste my time posting here. Three posts below this one, I listed the criteria for inclusion on the 1993 box in order of importance as told to me at the time by David Leaf, but no, someone 'thinks' Brian was involved because "LHRW" wasn't on there. Brian made two executive decisions regarding the box - he vetoed "LHRW" and, after considerable arm-twisting, agreed to let Smile tracks be included. That was  the extent of his involvement, again, as related to me by David and also by Mark & Andy in seperate conversations. 

[Amy B.]

I think he was involved in picking out tracks for the boxed set...Hence the exclusion of "Let him Run Wild." As far as the SMiLE boxed set goes, releasing original Smile tracks post-2004 could undermine the importance of BWPS. That might be his thinking.

Y'know... sometime I wonder why I waste my time posting here. Three posts below this one, I listed the criteria for inclusion on the 1993 box in order of importance as told to me at the time by David Leaf, but no, someone 'thinks' Brian was involved because "LHRW" wasn't on there. Brian made two executive decisions regarding the box - he vetoed "LHRW" and, after considerable arm-twisting, agreed to let Smile tracks be included. That was  the extent of his involvement, again, as related to me by David and also by Mark & Andy in seperate conversations. 

Jeez. 
I apologize, Andrew. I hadn't gotten through reading the whole thread (I'm at work, so my mind is in several places at once and I read here to take breaks). I jumped the gun. Relax, I was wrong. We all appreciate you.     I guess I don't take my fandom seriously enough.   

[Jonas]

Y'know... sometime I wonder why I waste my time posting here. Three posts below this one, I listed the criteria for inclusion on the 1993 box in order of importance as told to me at the time by David Leaf, but no, someone 'thinks' Brian was involved because "LHRW" wasn't on there. Brian made two executive decisions regarding the box - he vetoed "LHRW" and, after considerable arm-twisting, agreed to let Smile tracks be included. That was  the extent of his involvement, again, as related to me by David and also by Mark & Andy in seperate conversations. 

Awww, cry us a river!

 

[Sheriff John Stone]

As far as the SMiLE boxed set goes, releasing original Smile tracks post-2004 could undermine the importance of BWPS.

No argument here.

[thomasogg]

Gee, Andrew's got his knickers in a twist somewhat hasn't he? What's that all about? Sorry oh enlightened one, we all bow before you with your superior knowledge of all things Beach Boys, for we are mere mortals who probably don't even know who played bass on 'Pitter Patter'. etc.