Wrecking Crew Sighting (Bill Pitman content)

[Mark H.]

The latest issue of "The Fretboard Journal" had a relatively extensive interview will Bill Pitman.  He played a lot of guitar and Danelectro bass on Beach Boy sessions among others.  Lots of BB/BW content although general in it's nature.

Highlights:

"I did GV with the Beach Boys, and it took 3 months to do that one tune.......Brian would have his girl call and say 'Please be at Western at midnight and we'll pay double scale.'  And I'd already done 4 that day and was on my ass, but I'd go and do it because the money was good."


On playing Rock/Pop sessions: "Most of the time I paid them no attention at all.  Five minutes after I was out of the studio,  I couldn't even tell you what song we'd played or who the date was for.  I couldn't have cared less."

"It was strictly a matter of earning a living.  When I got a call for the Beach Boys, I tried to give them whatever they wanted and then got the hell out.....GV took 3 months...Brian kept coming in at midnight, then he'd get hungry and send out for food for all of us, and we'd sit there and eat until 2 a.m., and finally he'd say he was too tired to do anything.  He'd say, 'Barbara, pay the guys and give them double scale, and we'll do it again tomorrow.'  So I never took any of it seriously.  In the first place I didn't like the music very much.  There were few, if any, good changes."

Much more on Phil Spector (Pitman was hired by Phil's mother to teach him guitar in the 50s) and his dislike for playing on rock sessions.  Actually a facinating read.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Neat.  Awesome.  Thanks very much for posting this.  Bill is looking good.  Where is he living now?

I always have felt bad for the guys who didn't enjoy playing the pop sessions.  I'd gladly have switched places with Bill.  I understand his point of view very well, but sometimes I get the idea that he didn't even really try to like it.  Oh well. 

[Mark H.]

"Today, Pitman is enjoying retirement in Southern California, routinely shooting near-par golf and creating guitar arrangements that emulate pianist Bill Evans' unique approach to harmony."

Pitman played on a number of Howard Roberts' sessions and he gushes in recalling those.  It's really a matter of personal taste.  I remember an old thread where it was proposed that the fact that many of the musicians Brian used were so personally detached from the music imparted a unique quality to the finished product.

I too would love to have traded places with Pitman on a few selected sessions.  I wonder if he ate alot of Pioneer Chicken?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Barbara ?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

When he says "Barbara" he's probably thinking about some kind of contracting/union assistant?  I don't get how it all worked exactly, but it sounds like there were often times where the players were payed on the spot.  I don't know how that was covered.  Union presence, maybe?  Hal and others, like Knechtel have mentioned getting paid out of a cash box at the end of a date.

I remember an old thread where it was proposed that the fact that many of the musicians Brian used were so personally detached from the music imparted a unique quality to the finished product.

Yeah, it was probably me that proposed that, and I still think it's true.  There was a lot of nice, objective interpretation going on that seems crisper than an potentially over-emotional reading by somebody who's heavily invested in the performance.

[endofposts]

Maybe he meant a Rovell sister?  Wasn't Diane the person who contracted the session players?  Maybe he got her name mixed up with her younger sister (who probably was too young at the time to do that type of job).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Exactly my question - Diane was Brian's [koff] 'contractor'. I'm pretty sure Barbara was married or engaged by then (she was married for sure by fall 1966).

The only people paid on the spot were the ones not supposed to be there (cf the mystery drummer on "Surfin' USA").    Everyone else was invoiced as per the AFM sheet.

[Bicyclerider]

I personally find that kind of attitude distasteful - it's definitely an "I'm better than this" kind of attitude, pop music is not "real music."  Yeah, if you're so much better than that, why aren't you making a living playing "real music?"  Even if you're a jazz musician, you don't think it would be cool to be playing on a million selling, innovative, number one poprock record?  No, Bill's above all that.  Or so he thinks.

I much prefer Carol Kaye and Hal Blaine's approach to the music - yeah, it's a living and most of the pop music they were playing on was forgettable, but they could appreciate the genius of Brian or Jan Berry's arrangements, and invested more into their playing than apparently Bill Pittman.

[Amy B.]

 When I got a call for the Beach Boys, I tried to give them whatever they wanted and then got the hell out... In the first place I didn't like the music very much.  There were few, if any, good changes."

So I guess this means Bill won't be in the audience at the premiere of "That Lucky Old Sun." 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Maybe he meant a Rovell sister?  Wasn't Diane the person who contracted the session players?  Maybe he got her name mixed up with her younger sister (who probably was too young at the time to do that type of job).

Exactly my question - Diane was Brian's [koff] 'contractor'. I'm pretty sure Barbara was married or engaged by then (she was married for sure by fall 1966).

The only people paid on the spot were the ones not supposed to be there (cf the mystery drummer on "Surfin' USA").    Everyone else was invoiced as per the AFM sheet.

You guys heard the man.  He didn't like being there, you really think he remembers the name of one of Brian's in-laws? 

Clearly, there were times legitimate AFM approved players were payed at sessions, I've heard of it happening to too many honest players for it not to have happened, and clearly Bill is remembering being paid on the spot.  Unless by "Pay them, Barbara" he means, "write out the invoice, Barbara."

It would certainly be interesting to get to the bottom of this.

[c-man]

These excerpt sound pretty much verbatim to an interview I came across online a few years ago:  the article was called "Junior Salt Speaks", the interview with Pitman was done by Jim Carlton, and it appeared in the Nov. 15, 2002 issue of "Classic Jazz Guitar".  I wonder if it's a reprint, or if Bill just says the exact same thing evertime he's interviewed?  Last I looked, that interview was no longer online, but someone can try a search and see what they come up with.  I remember he said the only "cool" pop group he ever heard was Steely Dan...I don't remember if he said he did any sessions for them, but I know his name is not on any of their album credits (which doesn't mean he didn't play for them, 'cause they're known to have lots of outtakes, just like the Beach Boys).  I always wondered why Pitman wasn't interviewed for the "Pet Sounds Sessions" box set, but after reading that interview, I kinda knew why. 

Billy Strange recalls being paid in cash for playing an overdub on "Sloop John B." (as well as also getting a free guitar and amp out of it), but there IS union paperwork for that session, so the cash may have been a bonus (like the guitar & amp). 

[Mark H.]

I assume this is a relatively recent interview...there were 4 or 5 photos of Bill at home.  There is a whole page on Specter who he treats very kindly in a personal way...he considered Phil a "good businessman" and not musically important.  The magazine is at home but basically he considers rock/pop "simple minded".  That does not take away from his abilities as a musician.  He stated that he tried to deliver the goods as requested by the client and obviously he did because he played on lots and lots of sessions.

No specific mention that I recall of Steely Dan but he did say that he likes Larry Carlton which is close.  I imagine the guy's opinions have been relatively consistant.  And I took the "Barbara" to be a generic reference to a female assistant that was in fact Dianne Rovell.

Buy the magazine or read it at the bookstore....BB King is on the cover.

[Cam Mott]

Maybe the cash was the "double" above scale reported to AFM?

[c-man]

Maybe the cash was the "double" above scale reported to AFM?

I'm thinking not...the way I understand it, when the AFM paperwork was filed, the musicians were then paid through the union, which I assume then billed the record company.   I haven't listened to it in awhile, but there is a session tape for "Do You Remember" (an exceprt that was NOT included on SOT, btw), where the Boys themselves were discussing how they had some checks sitting down at the union hat they needed to pick up.

My guess is, for the "Sloop" overdub session, because it was on a Sunday (according to Billy Strange's recollection), and because it was a last-minute thing where Mr. Strange was called away from spending time with his son (he was divorced from the boy's mother and probably only got to seem him on weekends), Brian wanted to compensate him more, by giving him a wad of cash, a new guitar & amp, AND double above scale through the AFM (which also contributed to his pension).

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Do you think that sometimes the Union had representatives with cash or checks that went to the bigger sessions and paid out the musicians right away?

[c-man]

Do you think that sometimes the Union had representatives with cash or checks that went to the bigger sessions and paid out the musicians right away?

Could be...someone with access should contact one of the Wrecking Crew and ask them.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Well, there's always carolkaye.com...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just don't mention any one of about 30-odd names or you'll be banned so fast your head will spin. 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, well, it's for that reason that I can't go over and ask her myself.  Anybody who's not on Carol's blacklist is welcome to go over there...

[c-man]

Yeah, well, it's for that reason that I can't go over and ask her myself.  Anybody who's not on Carol's blacklist is welcome to go over there...

...and risk getting put on the blacklist now... 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, well, if anybody is game just praise her playing on I was Made to Love Her and all the Motown things, and maybe tell her she did a good job playing guitar on Surfin' USA or something, and then ask her if they were ever officially  paid "night of."

[Andrew G. Doe]

I've had it put to me (no names, no pack drill...) that being barred from Carol's forum confers  a degree of validity in the historic accuracy department. 

[Cam Mott]

Could be, if as the producer, Brian got to set AFM's scale for Capitol. On the other hand, the single scale authorized by AFM and expected by Capitol could be reported and paid with pension deductions and the "double" promised by Brian could be paid in cash with no deductions for pension, or taxes, but who knows.