Did the BBs ever acknowledge Brian's mental illness?

[Amy B.]

As we all know, Brian has been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. If you look it up online, it explains a lot of Brian's behavior from the 60s through to today. Interestingly, although Brian's depression is mentioned in various BBs documentaries, I don't know of one that actually names his illness.

My question is, have the BBs and others who were around Brian when his bizarre behavior begin (Marilyn, for instance) ever acknowledged this latter-day diagnosis as a way of explaining some of Brian's behavior? It seems to me that they usually blame the drugs or just shrug their shoulders, like, "Oh, Brian wouldn't finish the track. Who knows why?" or "Brian suddenly became uninterested in working on the albums..." I know Mike has mentioned in several interviews, even now, that "My cousin Brian is schizophrenic," which is just plain inaccurate. It seems to me that Brian's behavior is a major part of many of the docs and discussions, but the actual illness behind it is not.

[TheLazenby]

What do you mean?  Brian IS schizophrenic... or at least, was.  He discusses it himself in the "Smile" documentary, about how he kept hearing voices threatening to kill him and stuff.

[Amy B.]

It's actually schizoaffective disorder, which is different from schizophrenia.
From Larry King Live, 2004:

****M. WILSON: That's the thing that's amazing. Right now when he goes out on tour I can look at him and I say to myself: "Oh my God, I can tell just by his face he's hearing voices."

KING: You still hear them.

B. WILSON: Oh yes. I still hear them.

M. WILSON: And yet he continues to do the concerts. It's amazing.

KING: Is that a form of schizophrenia?

M. WILSON: There is a very -- it's a schizo-affective disorder is what they call it actually. And there's a very fine line between depression, schizophrenia, bipolar. It's a degree.****

There's a description of schizoaffective disorder here:
http://www.npi.ucla.edu/ssg/schizoaffective.htm
But anyway, I didn't mean to get sidetracked on the difference between the two. I was wondering about the BBs' views on Brian's behavior and his later diagnosis.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brian was briefly institutionalized as early as 1968, so there was at least a  little acknowledgement that his problem stemmed from more than just drugs.

From Wikipedia...

DSM IV-TR Criteria

To be diagnosed with schizophrenia, a person must display:[16]

    * Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a one-month period (or less, if successfully treated)
          o delusions
          o hallucinations
          o disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence; speaking in abstracts). See thought disorder.
          o grossly disorganized behavior (e.g. dressing inappropriately, crying frequently) or catatonic behavior
          o negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia (lack or decline in speech), or avolition (lack or decline in motivation).

    Note: Only one of these symptoms is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of hearing one voice participating in a running commentary of the patient's actions or of hearing two or more voices conversing with each other.

    * Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset.

    * Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least six months. This six-month period must include at least one month of symptoms (or less, if successfully treated).

Additional criteria are also given that exclude the diagnosis; thus schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed if symptoms of mood disorder or pervasive developmental disorder are present, or the symptoms are the direct result of a substance (e.g., abuse of a drug, medication) or a general medical condition.
The following are the criteria for a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV):

A. Two (or more) of the following symptoms are present for the majority of a one-month period:

    * delusions
    * hallucinations
    * disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
    * grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
    * negative symptoms (i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition)

Note: Only one of these symptoms is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.

AND at some time there is either a

    * major depressive episode
    * manic episode
    * mixed episode

B. During the same period of illness, there have been delusions or hallucinations for at least two weeks in the absence of prominent mood symptoms.

C. Symptoms that meet criteria for a mood episode are present for a substantial portion of the total duration of the active and residual periods of the illness.

D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.

[edit] Subtypes

Two subtypes of Schizoaffective Disorder may be noted based on the mood component of the disorder:

[edit] Bipolar Type

if the disturbance includes

    * manic episode
    * mixed episode
    * manic and major depressive episodes
    * mixed and major depressive episode

This subtype applies if a manic episode or mixed episode is part of the presentation. Major Depressive Episodes may also occur.

[edit] Depressive Type

if the disturbance includes major depressive episodes exclusively.

This subtype applies if only Major Depressive Episodes are part of the presentation.

The drugs made them worse (esp. speed and cocaine, as schizophrenia does involve increased levels of dopamine, and both drugs increase dopamine), but he was hearing voices long before that.

The two disorders do get confused often.

Here's something interesting...

Cannabis

In addition to pharmaceutical medications, some who suffer from schizoaffective disorder have claimed to benefit from medicinal marijuana (cannabis). This claim, however, has not been substantiated by clinical trials and there is no available clinical literature on effective dosage levels.[2] Additionally, psychiatrists report that with patients who are heavy cannabis users, it is often difficult to separate the symptoms of the disorder from those due to the cannabis.[3]

Some cases of schizophrenia are linked to cannabis use during teen years, when the brain is still developing and the limbic system is more susceptible to permanent changes. [4] It is unclear whether all disorders on the schizophrenic spectrum are also correlated with the usage of cannabis during this time.

That right there is a difference between the two.
 A personal note:
Years ago, I  was diagnosed as borderline schizoaffective, and am supposed to be on meds. I was at one point, and honestly... the medication I was on messed me up worse. I became lethargic, all my creative energy was gone (I went from writing an average of around 10 songs a week to not being able to write anything for several months), those close to me said I seemed almost like a zombie (I have little memory of this time period). I quit taking them cold turkey and tried to just "tough it out". I then started smoking weed for the first time in quite a while, but not to excess. That actually helped me. I still do on occasion, but only when I'm heading toward a "down" phase.

I wonder what would've happened if Brian had just stuck to that, and not taken speed, coke,acid, ect...

[MBE]

I don't know what would have happened to Brian if he didn't take hard drugs but to me pot wasn't good for him because of him having scattered or paranoid tendances anyway. I think with any drug legal or illegal some will have a good effect one one person but will have a bad one on another.

[Bicyclerider]

Well although Mike's "diagnosis" is wrong, I don't think it's necessary for him to understand the differences between schizoaffective and schizophrenic - he is still acknowledging that Brian has a serious mental illness. 

[Amy B.]

It wasn't my intention to make this a pick-on-Mike thread, although it annoys me that he sometimes uses Brian's mental illness to argue that Brian doesn't know what he's doing and is being taken advantage of and then proceeds to get said illness wrong. Like, if you don't even know what Brian has, how can you claim knowledge about Brian's ability or lack of ability to make his own decisions?

But anyway. I was thinking more of whether the BBs and their associates have ever looked back and said, "At the time, we just thought Brian was drugged up, but now it's clear that had psychological issues beyond his control," instead of just saying, "He used to act so odd," or even Ginger Blake saying sadly, "The Brian of today... that's not the real Brian," which seems a bit dismissive of the cause of Brian's behavior. I don't know... maybe I'm not giving them enough credit. It just seems like there's still this mystique over Brian's behavior in the past, perpetuated by stories told in books and documentaries, and his diagnosis explains a lot. On the other hand, maybe they feel that talking about Brian's mental illness should fall to Brian and is no longer really their business.

[Fun Is In]

I suspect that for most people who grew up in Hawthorne (and much of the US) in the post-war years, the only thing that most people knew about mental illness was that it should be hushed up and covered up. Otherwise, they might not even recognize it because it just wasn't discussed in polite company.

Back in those days, and to some extent up to today, many people think "schizophrenia" is multiple personality disorder. They don't know about thought disorders and haven't encountered anyone who is truly "crazy".  Brian's family and friends probably would not have known schizoaffective disorder unless it bit them in the bank account. And when it did seem to be biting them in the bank account, their level of understanding probably made ascribing ALL of his weirdness to the effects of drugs the most sensible thing based on their knowledge and experience. 

Average people didn't and don't know much about serious mental illness.
What were they to think when he denied access to a session to someone who "is a witch who is messing with my mind"? There had to be an explanation for that, and being organically crazy was not among the choices known to most of them. And what are you going to tell the public? Sorry SMiLE isn't coming cuz Brian is crazy"? Unlikely.

His doctors don't seem to have done him a lot of favors back in the 60s either, though the therapeutic options were much more limited back then (Freudianism would be  a dismal failure with schizoaffective disorder) and Thorazine is rought stuff.

Brian's family and friends apparently weren't able to get him effective help,  if it even was available.

[Amy B.]

Maybe I should clarify...
I'm talking about the way they discuss it now, in retrospect.

[endofposts]

Van Dyke Parks has also referred to Brian as a schizophrenic in at least one interview that I recall either reading or seeing.  And it was in the past five years, after Brian's newer diagnosis.  Brian supposedly wasn't give the bipolar with schizoaffective disorder diagnosis until he visited UCLA psychiatrists in the mid-'90s.

[MBE]

I don't think they are making fun of him or being mean. I think there have been multiple diagnoses through the years that leave me wondering just what he suffers from or even if it is just one thing. The point I think that Mike is making is that drugs didn't help Brian. I think Ginger is just being honest because the Brian he was until his dad died is gone. The  Brian of today is just not the same man in a fundamental way. Sure there are still things about his old self that he can show flashes of, but everyone else around the situation is saying "oh yeah Brian is fine now". People like Mike and Ginger are just stating the obvious which is that he's not "fine". Still, he is certainly better then he was twenty five years ago.

[carlydenise]

I think they knew had some kind of problems, but didn't know what it was at the time.
Carl, in an interview a few years ago, said that they knew something was up with Brian, but didn't know what was going on, and didn't know how to help him.  Was it the drugs?  I don't think so; Brian is a very nervous and very sensitive person by nature, to constantly put him in front of an audience, to try and turn an introvert into an extrovert, to be under constant pressure to put out music can't be good on a man who was nervous around people to begin with, and it probably took its toll on his nerves.