What's this ?

[the captain]

As performing musicians, I almost completely disagree. I think Brian's current band is filled with better singers and players than the basic Beach Boys group (meaning not counting touring musicians, just brothers, cousin, friend and, if you want, Bruce). I know nobody else tends to agree with that, so whatever. Rant away. This is where that talk of that "certain indefinable magic" and "brotherly blend" comes up, but I call that nostalgia or mythology more than fact.

I'm not saying anyone in his current band could create music that was the equal of Dennis' best, or even the others' best (although I like a lot of the 'mints' music). But as for performing what has already been created, for me it's hands down.

Who would you rather have singing lead vocals in Brian's band today, Brian or Jeff Foskett?

Both, and almost everyone else besides. While I like Brian's ragged vocals on some parts, there are others that are simply embarrassing. I'd prefer--and I've been saying this for years--that Brian dole out parts the way he did with the Beach Boys. Let the best voice for each song (or verse, or phrase, or whatever) take the lead. Now, I'd take Brian circa 65 or 66 over anyone, but those days are long gone.

Luther, I totally agree with you on this one too. And I'll take it a step further. I wish that Brian would dole out parts the way he used to - ON HIS UPCOMING SOLO ALBUM BY DOLING OUT PARTS TO MIKE, AL, BRUCE, AND DAVID! And bring along Jeff Foskett for the background vocals...

Now that I can't agree with.

[Wyndham]

Brian's current band has a very muddy, thick sound which I don't really like. True, they recreate studio vocals live far better than the Beach Boys, but thats because there's about 11 of them or something. I truly find some of their voices quite annoying, whoever sings the second low God Only Knows tag part on Pet Sounds live, Jeff Foskett's falsetto really grates after a while. Singing isn't just about the ability to learn a part and stay in tune, its about the tone and expression in your voice.

Tell me that the Beach Boys who recorded the vocals to Wouldn't It Be Nice were not as technically good as Brian's band. Yeah they're better musicians, but I really can't believe that these guys are better vocalists than the Beach Boys, widely regarded as one of the greatest vocal groups of all time.

[Dave in KC]

I believe the folks are referring to the current Beach Boys, right? Otherwise what's the point?  Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys. However, if you go to a concert, Brian's people make Mike's sound like, well, like a tribute band. But a good one though.  When I saw the Mike and Bruce show early this month, WIBN was butchered by the lead vocalist. Others with me said the same thing. He's trying WAY to hard, whatever his name is.

[the captain]

I believe the folks are refering to the current Beach Boys, right? Otherwise what's the point?  Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys

Yes, the original Beach Boys. But the beginning of the last sentence I left in the quote above is exactly what I think is incorrect. "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"...why not? I think that's nostalgia talking, not reason. Something can be. Some things are.

[Dancing Bear]

I believe the folks are refering to the current Beach Boys, right? Otherwise what's the point?  Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys

Yes, the original Beach Boys. But the beginning of the last sentence I left in the quote above is exactly what I think is incorrect. "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"...why not? I think that's nostalgia talking, not reason. Something can be. Some things are.

What's wrong with "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"? It's as good a opinion as "Nothing was ever as good as Brian's band".

Speaking for myself, I'd rather watch any live configuration of the Beach Boys between 1961 and 1977, and that's just my opinion. It's just my taste, not nostalgia.

[the captain]

What's wrong with "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"? It's as good a opinion as "Nothing was ever as good as Brian's band".

What's wrong with it is that it's taking everything else out of consideration (at least as stated). It's saying it doesn't matter what else there is or will be, because the best has already been acvhieved. (BTW, I never said, nor ever would say, that nothing was ever as good as Brian's band.) I think once a mind is so firmly made up as to make musical taste almost religious conviction, it just gets...weird. (I guess posting that thought on a BB message board of which I'm a member might not be the best place...)

[Dancing Bear]

What's wrong with it is that it's taking everything else out of consideration (at least as stated). It's saying it doesn't matter what else there is or will be, because the best has already been acvhieved. (BTW, I never said, nor ever would say, that nothing was ever as good as Brian's band.) I think once a mind is so firmly made up as to make musical taste almost religious conviction, it just gets...weird. (I guess posting that thought on a BB message board of which I'm a member might not be the best place...)

I think we have a problem here with the meaning of the word "opinion".

[the captain]

I don't know. It is always an opinion how anyone feels about some music. Different people will have different ones. I don't have a problem with that. It's the closing off of one's mind to the potential for change in the future that bothers me. I can have an opinion that Brian Wilson had the best falsetto ever and I think that's fine. But if I think Brian Wilson had a better falsetto than anyone else will ever have, that is an entirely different thing and I'd consider myself a closed-minded fool if I said that. To do so is stopping your potential for development of taste, ignoring current and future music, etc. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I'm saying that to determine something past is better than anything that could ever come lends itself to just shutting down.

[Dancing Bear]

I don't know. It is always an opinion how anyone feels about some music. Different people will have different ones. I don't have a problem with that. It's the closing off of one's mind to the potential for change in the future that bothers me. I can have an opinion that Brian Wilson had the best falsetto ever and I think that's fine. But if I think Brian Wilson had a better falsetto than anyone else will ever have, that is an entirely different thing and I'd consider myself a closed-minded fool if I said that. To do so is stopping your potential for development of taste, ignoring current and future music, etc. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I'm saying that to determine something past is better than anything that could ever come lends itself to just shutting down.

What you're saying now has nothing to do with your initial post:

As performing musicians, I almost completely disagree. I think Brian's current band is filled with better singers and players than the basic Beach Boys group (meaning not counting touring musicians, just brothers, cousin, friend and, if you want, Bruce). I know nobody else tends to agree with that, so whatever. Rant away. This is where that talk of that "certain indefinable magic" and "brotherly blend" comes up, but I call that nostalgia or mythology more than fact.

[the captain]

No it doesn't.

My opinion on which band is better is Brian Wilson's current band. Nobody agrees. I believe that many people say that the Beach Boys are better purely out of nostalgia.

The latter posts aren't about which of two bands is better, but the statement that "nobody will ever top..." the Beach Boys (or anyone else). That is wholly different.

If someone prefers the Beach Boys to BW's band because they think they were a better group, fine. My initial posts only had to do with letting the legend or mystique get in the way. My latter posts weren't about preference between the two, but shutting off one's mind to the possibility of some band (in this case, the BBS) ever being topped.

Those aren't contradictory--they're different topics. I changed my point after the phrase "nobody will ever top" (or whatever it was--I'm not going to go digging for it) came up.
 

[Jason]

Brian Wilson had a better falsetto than anyone else will ever have

Ever listen to King Diamond? His falsetto is INSANE!

[the captain]

Brian Wilson had a better falsetto than anyone else will ever have

Ever listen to King Diamond? His falsetto is INSANE!

No, but I saw his pic in metal magazines I used to buy as a young teenager. That reminds me, I had awful taste as a teenager.

[Dancing Bear]

I believe that many people say that the Beach Boys are better purely out of nostalgia.

Everybody believes lots of things, but usually we restrain ourselves and pretend to respect other people's opinions. 

[Daniel S.]

The Beach Boys played their instruments just fine. Just listen to one of their live albums, there's a power and energy there that is missing from Brian's current band. Obviously one of the reasons the Beach Boys were succesful is the chemistry they had together, they're not just hired hands like Brian's current band.

Also, it's important to remember that the Beach Boys were not trying to recreate Brian's sound in the studio, they were adapting his songs to a live rock concert setting, and played the songs in that fashion. Especially during the early 70's.

[MBE]

I was born in 76 and didn't even see the group really until about 1985. Became a fan in 1988. It's not nostalgia for me I just happen to like the sound of music recorded from about 51-71 better then anything else. The way it was recorded, the trends, etc. appeal to me more then anything done since. I happen to like the Beach Boys of the 60s and early 70s better then any other group. Is there a slim chance I will one day like someone more? Sure I discover "new" music all the time. It just so happens though that most of it was recorded in the era I mentioned. I am way more open to different things then I used to be, but 90 percent of what I truly LOVE is from that era. That said, Brian's band is fine and they sound great for what they do, but I am not a Wondermints "fan". I like them in the context of what they do with Brian, but I am listening because I like Brian.  As much as I like any given song, it's more how it was performed that interests me. The Beach Boys simply were great performers and had charisma that made up for anything technical. Do I like Dennis Wilson better then any given Jazz great? I can easily say yes. Btw I do actually respect everyone's opinion. What I wrote here is simply me sharing what I personally think.

[the captain]

I'm not, and wasn't, saying it isn't a valid opinion to prefer the Beach Boys to Brian's band. And I respect people's opinions, and their right to have opinions. I've never said otherwise. I don't say otherwise now. All I ever did was GUESS at what might be behind SOME people's opinions. That's it.

Well, no, later on I said it seems narrow minded to say nothing in the future will ever be able to top something that's past.

Anyway, everyone, have opinions. Enjoy your opinions. I'm not judging you. I wasn't judging you. I don't even know you. It doesn't matter. Clear? I hope so. Jesus...

(BTW, MBE, I was going to note that your preference still could be based more on "legend" than fact. You know, like deep in my heart I will always have a bias toward Hendrix on guitar and Freddie Mercury on vocals just because of stories I heard, books I read, etc. A person could do that--be so steeped in the mystique of a band so as to build an aura that makes a person closed off to anything else. But I don't want to note that anymore because it seems like too much work, I'll be interpreted as having somehow said everyone who was born in 1976 is stupid and doesn't respect opinions [or something, and by the way, I was born in 1976 and am just fucking around, so don't be offended by that] and have to explain all over again. Oh yeah, and I already did say it.  Right here. In this paragraph. But to reiterate, I don't know why you prefer them, or care. I come in peace. I go in peace.]

[Dancing Bear]

I'm not, and wasn't, saying it isn't a valid opinion to prefer the Beach Boys to Brian's band. And I respect people's opinions, and their right to have opinions. I've never said otherwise. I don't say otherwise now. All I ever did was GUESS at what might be behind SOME people's opinions. That's it.

Luther, I'm terribly sorry for misunderstading your words.

By the way, I guess you prefer Brian's band because he's your idol. That said, I respect your opinion.

[the captain]

Actually, no. I think he's the worst one in the band. By far. (Although I also don't much like Mertens' solos.) I prefer them because I think Wondermints and Jeff and Scott and Taylor sing brilliantly together, and Probyn (in particular, although also the others) is remarkably versatile and talented. That's why.

And I respect my fucking opinion, too.

[Dancing Bear]

 

[the captain]

Remind me not to come around here.

[MBE]

Luther thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I just like the actual sound on the music recorded during the Beach Boys prime. I also like the styles etc. Your point is well taken but there are many people who are proclaimed as great, considered legends, that I don't like. Also there are plenty of people dismissed by critics who I love. I am sure your theory is valid for many. Don't be discouraged to post because I for one like to have the chance to think about how (or why) I enjoy someone over someone else.

[Aegir]

Celebration.. now that was a good band, yesiree.