'72 Smile

[runnersdialzero]

Interesting that the order is roughly close to the reverse order of those songs' appearances on BWPS and TSS.

[TimmyC]

BWPS is the completed work.

BWPS was completed so they could play it live. I believe they were running out of ideas to keep Brian's live act alive. It was then recorded to make money.

Well that's a cynical way of looking at it.  I'm sure they wanted to make money but that doesn't mean there wasn't any artistic integrity in it.  I certainly think there was.  It's not like Brian was forced to do it against his will.  He was asked to do it, he agreed to do it, and he did it.  He did it with a lot of help but he did it.  And we should be glad he did.

I respect your opinion.

Would you have preferred if Brian left Smile alone rather than finish it?  Whatever happened behind the scenes, you can't deny that it sounds great.

I wish Brian would have left BWPS as a live performance. He/they did an incredible job with it in a concert setting.

To re-record the SMiLE songs, call it finished, and release it as such is a disgrace and a fraud. But that's a long story.

I do deny that it sounds great. While there are some parts of it that are good, especially parts of the second movement, I do not enjoy listening to it. Actually, I hardly ever listen to it.

I didn't preface each sentence with "In my opinion". It's understood.

SJS - you are my new favorite smiley smiler. I agree with your post 1000% and I truly admire your bravery in speaking truth to power (the truth being that BWPS is NOT a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination and the power being the herd menatality of brianistas who seem to think that BWPS is the greatest album ever made). Glad to know that there are BB fanatics out there who feel the same way I do about BWPS. Smile WITH the BEACH BOYS is the only way it should ever be heard on record, IMO of course.

[sockittome]

BWPS is the completed work.

BWPS was completed so they could play it live. I believe they were running out of ideas to keep Brian's live act alive. It was then recorded to make money.

Well that's a cynical way of looking at it.  I'm sure they wanted to make money but that doesn't mean there wasn't any artistic integrity in it.  I certainly think there was.  It's not like Brian was forced to do it against his will.  He was asked to do it, he agreed to do it, and he did it.  He did it with a lot of help but he did it.  And we should be glad he did.

I respect your opinion.

Would you have preferred if Brian left Smile alone rather than finish it?  Whatever happened behind the scenes, you can't deny that it sounds great.

I wish Brian would have left BWPS as a live performance. He/they did an incredible job with it in a concert setting.

To re-record the SMiLE songs, call it finished, and release it as such is a disgrace and a fraud. But that's a long story.

I do deny that it sounds great. While there are some parts of it that are good, especially parts of the second movement, I do not enjoy listening to it. Actually, I hardly ever listen to it.

I didn't preface each sentence with "In my opinion". It's understood.

SJS - you are my new favorite smiley smiler. I agree with your post 1000% and I truly admire your bravery in speaking truth to power (the truth being that BWPS is NOT a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination and the power being the herd menatality of brianistas who seem to think that BWPS is the greatest album ever made). Glad to know that there are BB fanatics out there who feel the same way I do about BWPS. Smile WITH the BEACH BOYS is the only way it should ever be heard on record, IMO of course.

If BWPS offends you so much, you can simply choose to     not     listen    to    it.   I think it's great that we have so many different forms of SMiLE to enjoy.  The real actual '66/'67 SMiLE never actually happened and never will.   I think that some people need to get over it and enjoy what we have.  End of story....

Btw, IMO, BWPS is not perfect in any way, but it is important.  Without it, things would have gone down quite differently.  Think about that.

[runnersdialzero]

No version of Smile is perfect. I'm not sure what's so offensive about Brian finishing Brian's work, but hay.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Is there any other album like SMiLE? Unfinished, but fans are able to make a multitude of versions with boots, etc for years? I'm not an expert on many bands, but I kind of doubt anything has taken on a life as this! 

[runnersdialzero]

Is there any other album like SMiLE? Unfinished, but fans are able to make a multitude of versions with boots, etc for years? I'm not an expert on many bands, but I kind of doubt anything has taken on a life as this! 

A lot of other bands have unfinished albums along these lines, but I can't think of any on the same scale as Smile. Still a fair amount of mystery surrounding what would have gone where and the real intent of some of the pieces, and I don't think we'll ever really know some of this stuff.

[Jukka]

Well, The Beatles and their Get Back -project is the closest thing, I guess... Hundreds of tapes, assemble your own. And what eventually came out was not what they originally intended. In fact, Get Back/Let It Be is like the polar opposite of Smile/Smiley Smile. They intended to make a warts and all -album, but ended up with quite a polished version.

[MBE]

If Brian would have participated Smile in the early seventies would have been cool because he and Dennis could still sing nearly the same. After that you have to loose something because their voices changed so much. Still the 2004 is a fun take on it but after the 2011 reissue I can't image playing the solo version again except on very rare occasions. The BD doc is pure garbage.

[runnersdialzero]

Well, The Beatles and their Get Back -project is the closest thing, I guess... Hundreds of tapes, assemble your own. And what eventually came out was not what they originally intended. In fact, Get Back/Let It Be is like the polar opposite of Smile/Smiley Smile. They intended to make a warts and all -album, but ended up with quite a polished version.

That's a bit more general, though - a lot of bands have had similar situations of unreleased albums coming out in altered form with the original intent being replaced by something totally different.

The thing that came to mind for me was Elliott Smith's From A Basement On The Hill album. He was working on it for about three years (amid some pretty gnarly drug addiction during the first two years) and died suddenly in late 2003 of what seemed to be a suicide. He spoke of it as a double album , seemed to hint at an "arc" approach (something about the songs slowly getting noisier and noisier) and possibly songs being linked together, and recorded well over 30 songs for it, most of which were fairly complete by the time of his death (one key piece is missing a lead vocal despite having a melody and lyrics written for it, sadly).

About a year after his death, a single disc album was put out featuring just 15 songs (one of which wasn't even his song or recording, by mistake) and much of the mixing and tracklist decisions were said to have been the work of his family and the people who were assembling the album instead of being his. A bunch of other songs from the sessions have leaked but have yet to see official release, and a number of them are kind of rambling instrumentals occasionally containing clear nods to other songs of his, and there are some other songs he played live in those years that are basically unaccounted for as far as studio recordings go (although he was known to be poor with keeping track of reels and documentation).

So yeah. There's a lot of mystery surrounding that album, but I wouldn't put it quite on par with Smile.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Ooh, nice to see there's another Elliott Smith fan on the board besides myself. 

[Jim V.]

Ooh, nice to see there's another Elliott Smith fan on the board besides myself. 

Another one right here too!

[I. Spaceman]

Big fan and acquaintance of Elliott.

[Alan Smith]

And another!

[Myk Luhv]

Me too! Now there's a guy who probably would've appreciated The BBs/BW's more melancholy moments...

[I. Spaceman]

Me too! Now there's a guy who probably would've appreciated The BBs/BW's more melancholy moments...

He did.

[Myk Luhv]

Oh, did he? I recall reading some interview with him where he mentions how he's never really liked The Beach Boys because he thought they were too upbeat or something. Guess he's not a fan of their early stuff!

[I. Spaceman]

He liked Pet Sounds.

[GhostyTMRS]

I wish I could remember where it came out and when but I know it was the early 70's. It was a typical hits compilation but to the best of my recollection, one side was:
1.Heroes & Villains (single)
2. Wonderful (Smiley Smile)
3. Our Prayer (20/20)
4. Cabinessence (20/20)
5. Surf's Up (Surf's Up) 

Thanks! You got it!

Anyone know what this is?

Sound like the Capitol Years box set.  Wikipedia refers to a CD edition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitol_Years_%28The_Beach_Boys_album%29 but I have a vinyl copy and looking online, it appears to be from 1980 (I can't check it properly as my copy is on the other side of the world).   The first side of disc 5 runs thusly:

1. Good Vibrations
2. Wind Chimes
3. Cabinessence
4. Vegetables
5. Wonderful
6. Our Prayer
7. Heroes And Villains

All the standard album versions (though I believe Cabinessence is collapsed to mono).  I'm sure the booklet explicitly states that it's an attempt to reproduce a Smile listening experience.

Thanks! You got it!

[Rocky Raccoon]

http://cwas.hinah.com/interview/?id=11

There seems to be a hint of the Beach Boys on Bled White and I Didn’t Understand. Any direct influence from them?
No, I didn’t think about the Beach Boys. I liked some songs on Pet Sounds but it took me a while to come around to them because of all their songs about cars and surfing. It’s a little too all-American for me. But they’re really musical. I like that.

[GhostyTMRS]

Is there any other album like SMiLE? Unfinished, but fans are able to make a multitude of versions with boots, etc for years? I'm not an expert on many bands, but I kind of doubt anything has taken on a life as this! 

A lot of other bands have unfinished albums along these lines, but I can't think of any on the same scale as Smile. Still a fair amount of mystery surrounding what would have gone where and the real intent of some of the pieces, and I don't think we'll ever really know some of this stuff.

In terms of a "lost" album that fans have pieced together from bootlegs and then a record label eventually cobbled together themselves, SMiLE's closest rival is Jimi Hendrix's "First Rays Of The New Morning Sun". At one time, this was a much more famous lost album than SMiLE was (SMiLE-mania really kicked off in the 80's). The songs that were to be on "First Rays..." were scattered across myriad posthumous compilations and bootlegs and an entire cult built up around the album, with fans trying to piece together what Jimi may have had in mind. Eventually an "official" version came out (much like TSS) but it's still hotly debated as to whether this was Jimi's vision for the album.

We're lucky we had Brian around at all in 2004 to revive SMiLE. Any bitching about it is juvenile nonsense.

[GhostyTMRS]

For more info (and a bit of deja vu) check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Rays_of_the_New_Rising_Sun

[Julia]

If it sounded good, didn't significantly alter the track pool from 66-67 material (no time to get alone or country air for me, no Cant Wait Too Long as a replacement for WC, keep Heroes on even if it was already released, etc) and more or less followed Brian's wishes with his approval, I would. There'd probably be some "Carl-isms" and "Reilly-isms" that rub me the wrong way, like Im not the biggest fan of '71 Surf's Up especially the fade, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if the "polishing" didn't call attention to itself.

The reason I don't hold BWPS in the same regard is because the production and vocals are SO different it just doesn't have the same vibe. It's the equivalent of a remake or reboot. Even by the same director with the same script and storyboards, it's gonna look and therefore feel different. It's not the same. I think 1973 or so was their last chance to do it right, so none but the uber-fans would even notice it'd been worked on in two different time frames. By 1988 it was already too late, much less anytime after that.

[BJL]

If it sounded good, didn't significantly alter the track pool from 66-67 material (no time to get alone or country air for me, no Cant Wait Too Long as a replacement for WC, keep Heroes on even if it was already released, etc) and more or less followed Brian's wishes with his approval, I would. There'd probably be some "Carl-isms" and "Reilly-isms" that rub me the wrong way, like Im not the biggest fan of '71 Surf's Up especially the fade, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if the "polishing" didn't call attention to itself.

The reason I don't hold BWPS in the same regard is because the production and vocals are SO different it just doesn't have the same vibe. It's the equivalent of a remake or reboot. Even by the same director with the same script and storyboards, it's gonna look and therefore feel different. It's not the same. I think 1973 or so was their last chance to do it right, so none but the uber-fans would even notice it'd been worked on in two different time frames. By 1988 it was already too late, much less anytime after that.

I've said it before, but I think the fact that they didn't assemble and sing Worms at any point before Carl died (I know they were considering it in the late 70s) is tragic, because that would be another Cabinessence. But no one but Brian could have finished the record as a whole, and Brian wasn't capable of finishing the record as a younger version of himself. So if he'd finished it in 1973, it would have been finished by 1973 Brian. It was finished in 2004, so it was finished by 2004 Brian. And even 1968 Brian wouldn't have done it the way he would have in 66. So much had changed in music and the world and his own mind and life even by then.

I agree with what you said in another thread, though. I think of Brian Wilson Presents Smile as a remake. I love it. But it's not the original. And it's not really trying to be, which is the great thing about it. They're not really trying to sound like the Beach Boys vocally. Even the art and title screams that this is something different, something new.

[rasmus skotte]

Like I've claimed during the past 20 years, there WAS a "72 SMiLE": Mt. Vernon & Fairway (fairytale) as mapped out by Brian himself...

We/THEY just needed to fill in the blanks/connect the dots and fit in the hinted~at SMiLE songs like in some kind of musical  jigsaw puzzle !?  (like we tried on "Dimb Angel Fairy Tale")!

[Zenobi]

Worms (Roll Plymouth Rock) is the real gem in BWPS. I actually prefer it to the great Cabin Essence.

And Worms in Dae Lims' SMiLE AI, with the so-called "vintage" melody from the SMiLE Sessions, is even better.