My most heretical take on SMiLE

[Zenobi]

I think that if SMiLE had been released in 1967, it would have fared about like BWPS.

It would have been critically acclaimed at first, then gradually abandoned as rock music became dominated by 12-minutes  guitar noodling and the like. It would have a moderate, not enormous, commercial success (Good Vibrations was lightning in a bottle, unrepeatable).

And... the most hardcore fans would hate it. Where is Look? Where is Holiday? Where is the 8/12/20 mins Heroes and Villains? Why is Elements so underwhelming? And OUR Wind Chimes? And OUR Wonderful? Name it.

And the fanmix industry, sooner or later, would have taken off anyway. There is too much music, too many ideas, too many modules, too many fragments. A 45 (at most) mins album would never satisfy the hardcore fans.

And no, just as Pet Sounds was not the second coming of Jesus, a completed SMiLE not have brought universal peace or anything like that. It would not even have brought peace among the Beach Boys...

[Lonely Summer]

Zenobi speaks the truth! Because, as we all know, once Hendrix and Cream etc took off, the only thing that mattered in rock music was HEAVY, 15 minutes of guitar shredding, someone screaming like a banshee, someone pounding on the drums, amps that go up to 11.

[FreakySmiley]

Zenobi speaks the truth! Because, as we all know, once Hendrix and Cream etc took off, the only thing that mattered in rock music was HEAVY, 15 minutes of guitar shredding, someone screaming like a banshee, someone pounding on the drums, amps that go up to 11.

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band would like a word... 
As would chart-topping, soft singer-songwriters like Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Neil Young (he could also get quite heavy as well, to be fair). And if those aren't "rock" enough for you, what about Poco, Elton John or even David Bowie? Not trying to argue, just point out that it's not so absolutely cut and dry...

[Zenobi]

Ok, but Sgt. Pepper was from 1967 itself, and they were the BEATLES. As I said, SMiLE would probably been critically acclaimed... in 1967. Later? Do you really think SMiLE in 1974 would be MUCH more respected than, say, Holland? I don't so. SMiLE would have been, let's say, too "subtle".

AND REMEMBER... SMILE HAD "MESSED" WITH THE FORMULA, BIG TIME!

[Zenobi]

Zenobi speaks the truth! Because, as we all know, once Hendrix and Cream etc took off, the only thing that mattered in rock music was HEAVY, 15 minutes of guitar shredding, someone screaming like a banshee, someone pounding on the drums, amps that go up to 11.

Well, thanks but this is surely exaggerated... don't understand whether it's sarcastic.

[BJL]

I think that if SMiLE had been released in 1967, it would have fared about like BWPS.

It would have been critically acclaimed at first, then gradually abandoned as rock music became dominated by 12-minutes  guitar noodling and the like. It would have a moderate, not enormous, commercial success (Good Vibrations was lightning in a bottle, unrepeatable).

And... the most hardcore fans would hate it. Where is Look? Where is Holiday? Where is the 8/12/20 mins Heroes and Villains? Why is Elements so underwhelming? And OUR Wind Chimes? And OUR Wonderful? Name it.

And the fanmix industry, sooner or later, would have taken off anyway. There is too much music, too many ideas, too many modules, too many fragments. A 45 (at most) mins album would never satisfy the hardcore fans.

And no, just as Pet Sounds was not the second coming of Jesus, a completed SMiLE not have brought universal peace or anything like that. It would not even have brought peace among the Beach Boys...

Absolutely couldn't disagree more. A finished Smile would have been a monumental creative accomplishment, would have been recognized as such, and would have fit right into the freak out 1967 psychedelic thing. It would be seen as emblematic of its time but also as a truly great achievement. It's reputation would be something like Pet Sounds crossed with Sgt. Pepper. It would have sold a *lot* of copies. It would have a very vocal band of detractors, naturally. The Beach Boys would be known for psychedelic music and surf music equally, just like how the Beatles are known for their mid-60s output AND Beatlemania. Good Vibrations was lightning in a bottle, sure, but it was lightning in a Smile-shaped bottle! It wouldn't be seen a stand-alone single, but as the lead single for the legendary album that followed close on its heals. Smile is not exactly imitable, so its hard to say what its impact on the sound of music would have been, but it almost certainly would have had one, if only because every music industry professional and musician in the world would have listened to it. The Beach Boys themselves would have inevitably recorded different albums in the latter part of the 60s, and its impossible to know how they would have been received because at that point the counterfactual is hopelessly far from reality.

And fans would think it was perfect and would debate whether Holidays should be on there exactly as much as they fight over whether Trombone Dixie belonged on Pet Sounds. 

Whether the Beach Boys were seen as part of the move towards heavier music would depend a lot on how Fire and a few other songs were mixed in the end, but most people would probably see them as in dialogue with what artists like Hendrix and Clapton were doing, rather than a path not taken, because that's the truth. The Beach Boys music was getting heavier, albeit in an idiosyncratic way. All that fuzz bass!

Just my two cents

[BJL]

Also I recognize that this is the heretical takes thread! Just couldn't resist defending one of my most deeply held beliefs, which is that the album Brian Wilson was actually recording up until about Christmas, 1966, if finished according to the principles and methods thus far, would have been one of the greatest achievements in global art history, and that because of a perfect storm of cultural experimentation hitting the mainstream and Good Vibrations being Good Vibrations, it would have been in the hands of millions of people virtually overnight.

[Julia]

Brian and Anderle are more responsible for the failure to finish than Mike or VDP.

The Elements was only ever a half-baked idea relatively late in the '66 sessions. I genuinely think the whole concept started as part of the Veggies/fitness kick Brian got on (which came after the American Gothic trip / innocence-adolescence leftovers from Pet Sounds) which explains the Frank Holmes connection there. Brian was like "yeah people need the elements / clean air and hydration and veggies to be healthy!" Then work on this new 4-segment track started with Veggies but eventually, I suspect, Brian then thought "that's too good and too conventional a song for this 4-part audio experiment." I don't know if the "4 part instrumental" framework we've been told really stands up anymore after looking at the sources and what we have on tape, but it's clear from Fire, the Nov 4 chants, Vosse's water recordings and Veggies getting taken out, that these 4 segments were meant to eschew traditional song structure--no verses, no choruses etc. There may be vocalizations, just no words. With the SMiLE project, Brian was experimenting how far he could take modular editing to mash unrelated "feels" together to form a cohesive whole--this was that to the next level, 4 disparate vibes that'd somehow have to work as one complete song.

With that in mind, I'm thinking the Elements might've been like one part recreating "non music sounds" with traditional instruments (that's Fire). For some reason, this one lacks a fitness undercurrent said to have permeated the whole track's MO. Anyway, another piece might involve recreating atmospheric sounds with chants alone (this could be Water or Air, both the Nov 4 demos sound promising). At least one could've been had sampled audio verite recordings spliced into a melody (Vosse's water sounds used as instrumentation for Dada/CCW probably). Then the new post-Veggies Earth might've been the same--using "found sounds" in a music concrete collage, IE workshop or some other Vosse mission that never got off the ground. If there were new, unique melodies or harmonies for any of these pieces that we haven't heard, then I say they were never written and perhaps weren't even conceptualized in Brian's mind. I'm leaning towards Dada's melody getting repurposed for water and/or air around the turn of the year--and new-Earth was either Workshop or nothing at all. Regardless of Brian's intent, I think the best thing we can do to rescue the concept with what's available is use Mrs OLeary's Cow (including Workshop) as Fire/Earth and Second Day/Dada as Water/Air, split up over the two sides and linking them together, as BWPS should've done.

Despite the popular minor misconception, Beach Boy albums tended to place the singles as the first and last songs on Side A before the first song on Side B (it's still the third most common spot)--I counted. So with this in mind, the most likely configuration of a '67 album would be GV/Heroes/Veggies jumbled between those 3 spots. If we go by Pet Sounds' example, it'd be A1 Heroes, A6 GV, B1 Veggies but musically I think A1 Heroes, A6 Veggies and B1 GV works best. Once again, I took a lot of flak for saying Veggies makes the most sense closing Side A over CE but it's actually the more likely scenario going by past conventions. And considering Veggies and Surf are the only two songs with corresponding comedy skits recorded by Wrecking Crew members, they always made sense to me as the obvious side-enders. I think YW and Prayer beginning sides while quick highlight reels of these half-improvised humor bits serve as the finales is a good way to organize SMiLE. That's all the major slots filled right there, leaving the rest of the tracks in obvious thematic groupings with their exact order kind of irrelevant and arbitrary -- just go with the flow of the music at that point.

Half the people who played gatekeeper 10 years ago and accused me of trolling because my ideas were too ridiculous to be put forth in good faith never even read the books they told me would change my mind, or forgot what they said, or only saw what they wanted to see. Maybe I sound like a jerk bringing it up so often but it really bugs me how rude and undeservedly authoritative some people acted back in the day...

[Zenobi]

Also I recognize that this is the heretical takes thread! Just couldn't resist defending one of my most deeply held beliefs, which is that the album Brian Wilson was actually recording up until about Christmas, 1966, if finished according to the principles and methods thus far, would have been one of the greatest achievements in global art history, and that because of a perfect storm of cultural experimentation hitting the mainstream and Good Vibrations being Good Vibrations, it would have been in the hands of millions of people virtually overnight.

The SMiLE created by a "perfect favourable storm" would have been one of the greatest achievements of human art, of course. In fact SMiLE, event in this fragmented state, maybe IS STILL one of the greatest achievements of human art.

But remember, the realistic 1967 SMiLE would not have been the album of our dreams. It would have been the result of many compromises.

Think Heroes and Villains: it WAS released in 1967, and I like it a lot, but I think we can agree that it is not one of the greatest achievements etc. But the "ideal" H & V, the never relased 8/12/20 mins one of dreams, the Far West mini rock opera one, would probably have been.

[BJL]

The SMiLE created by a "perfect favourable storm" would have been one of the greatest achievements of human art, of course. In fact SMiLE, event in this fragmented state, maybe IS STILL one of the greatest achievements of human art.

But remember, the realistic 1967 SMiLE would not have been the album of our dreams. It would have been the result of many compromises.

Think Heroes and Villains: it WAS released in 1967, and I like it a lot, but I think we can agree that it is not one of the greatest achievements etc. But the "ideal" H & V, the never relased 8/12/20 mins one of dreams, the Far West mini rock opera one, would probably have been.

I actually disagree pretty fundamentally with your logic here, too (sorry!)

The way I see it, Brian didn't need a perfect storm to finish Smile in late '66 early '67, he needed *not* to have a perfect (sh*t)storm of derailing factors. My read of the evidence we have is that Brian was on track to finish the record in relatively short order until the misguided (and fundamentally business-side-created) Heroes quest sent him spinning out in January and February. Given the problems with the band, problems with Parks, problems with the record label, mental health problems, all together it took a "perfect storm" to knock him off course.

I believe that the only reasonable scenario where Smile comes out is one in which Brian Wilson finishes the record he started without compromising. A world where Brian is making compromises and struggling and trying to put together the sessions in the summer of 1967 without the clear vision for the project he so obviously had the previous November... that, in my view, is a world where Smile doesn't come out at all. If only because it's basically the world we live in. (And the compromise Smile *did* come out, I suppose, it's called Smiley Smile!)

The most realistic scenario for finishing the album by far, in my view, is one where Brian maintains full control of the project and wraps it up with a productive slate of sessions in January, 1967 (instead of recording Jasper Daily and a million Heroes variations...). A scenario where Brian cobbles together a compromise Smile in the summer of 67 doesn't seem very realistic to me at all.

[Julia]

I actually disagree pretty fundamentally with your logic here, too (sorry!)

The way I see it, Brian didn't need a perfect storm to finish Smile in late '66 early '67, he needed *not* to have a perfect (sh*t)storm of derailing factors. My read of the evidence we have is that Brian was on track to finish the record in relatively short order until the misguided (and fundamentally business-side-created) Heroes quest sent him spinning out in January and February. Given the problems with the band, problems with Parks, problems with the record label, mental health problems, all together it took a "perfect storm" to knock him off course.

I believe that the only reasonable scenario where Smile comes out is one in which Brian Wilson finishes the record he started without compromising. A world where Brian is making compromises and struggling and trying to put together the sessions in the summer of 1967 without the clear vision for the project he so obviously had the previous November... that, in my view, is a world where Smile doesn't come out at all. If only because it's basically the world we live in. (And the compromise Smile *did* come out, I suppose, it's called Smiley Smile!)

The most realistic scenario for finishing the album by far, in my view, is one where Brian maintains full control of the project and wraps it up with a productive slate of sessions in January, 1967 (instead of recording Jasper Daily and a million Heroes variations...). A scenario where Brian cobbles together a compromise Smile in the summer of 67 doesn't seem very realistic to me at all.

Yeah this is probably the biggest revelation of my research over the summer. The biggest factor was the well-meaning Anderle letting business get in the way of creativity. He wanted to use the album and single as bargaining chips to negotiate a better deal with Capitol but he should've realized a) we should have a FINISHED album to bargain with first and b) Brian takes forever to finish a single now, as he himself saw with the ridiculous GV sessions, so DONT encourage him to go down that road again. Let him finish the ALBUM first then tell him "pick the best cut off it to use as a single" or "take something off the cutting room floor and pretend it's golden to bluff Capitol."

I don't hold any ill will towards Anderle or anything but yeah he unknowingly killed SMiLE by putting the idea in Brian's head that he needed another GV asap. I always wondered what the hurry was to put the album on hold for another single when GV was still on the charts, now I know. And this isn't me speculating, even Anderle himself and VDP say this was a big if not THE biggest factor. Mike certainly didn't help, but Brian ignored him before with Pet Sounds and would've ignored him again if the behind the scenes stuff hadn't been getting in the way.

Without the shift in focus, I predict SMiLE gets done by March--maybe not in its "fully realized proto-Zappa best possible assembly we can imagine" but in the sense that there are 12 tracks that work, Brian can sing all the parts if the guys refuse. Then Anderle or someone says "pick your favorite track off it--I recommend CE or SU--and a lesser cut or Look/Holidays from the vault and there's your single." Then it just edges Pepper in the release schedule and even if it isn't immediately hailed as the superior work, it's at least part of the same conversation "the year the world's two biggest bands heralded in the psychedelic summer" and, I suspect over time, its reputation eclipses Pepper, which is not nearly so thematically ambitious.

Ah well. We live in the shitty timeline, if no one could tell by now.

[BJL]

Yeah this is probably the biggest revelation of my research over the summer. The biggest factor was the well-meaning Anderle letting business get in the way of creativity. He wanted to use the album and single as bargaining chips to negotiate a better deal with Capitol but he should've realized a) we should have a FINISHED album to bargain with first and b) Brian takes forever to finish a single now, as he himself saw with the ridiculous GV sessions, so DONT encourage him to go down that road again. Let him finish the ALBUM first then tell him "pick the best cut off it to use as a single" or "take something off the cutting room floor and pretend it's golden to bluff Capitol."

I don't hold any ill will towards Anderle or anything but yeah he unknowingly killed SMiLE by putting the idea in Brian's head that he needed another GV asap. I always wondered what the hurry was to put the album on hold for another single when GV was still on the charts, now I know. And this isn't me speculating, even Anderle himself and VDP say this was a big if not THE biggest factor. Mike certainly didn't help, but Brian ignored him before with Pet Sounds and would've ignored him again if the behind the scenes stuff hadn't been getting in the way.

Without the shift in focus, I predict SMiLE gets done by March--maybe not in its "fully realized proto-Zappa best possible assembly we can imagine" but in the sense that there are 12 tracks that work, Brian can sing all the parts if the guys refuse. Then Anderle or someone says "pick your favorite track off it--I recommend CE or SU--and a lesser cut or Look/Holidays from the vault and there's your single." Then it just edges Pepper in the release schedule and even if it isn't immediately hailed as the superior work, it's at least part of the same conversation "the year the world's two biggest bands heralded in the psychedelic summer" and, I suspect over time, its reputation eclipses Pepper, which is not nearly so thematically ambitious.

Ah well. We live in the shitty timeline, if no one could tell by now.

I agree with all of this. Though I think there's no universe in which the Beach Boys don't actually sing whatever Brian asks them to sing. Certainly, I think not dying on the hill of a Heroes single seems blazingly obvious in retrospect.

Personally, I think part of the problem was a sort of divide in Brian Wilson's personality and professional persona that was getting wider and wider in the mid-60s, and shaping how people interacted with him. On the one hand, we have someone who is, by many, many first hand accounts, impulsive, sensitive, childish, perhaps fragile, certainly eccentric. The Brian Wilson Tony Asher described leaving huge checks lying around and spending hours watching flipper or whatever. The Brian Wilson who put his piano in a sandbox. On the other hand, we have an experienced professional, one of the leading producers in Los Angeles; respected, experienced, competent, professional, admired. The "Stalin of the studio". Also, you know, the Brian Wilson who was the quarterback of his High School football team.

These two aspects of Brian's professional persona were both in play in the mid-60s, which I think helps us understand what happened with Smile. Because who would hesitate to tell the latter Brian that it would make business sense to release another single! Professional Brian would either write and record hit single number 27 or whatever, or he would say, actually, I don't think that makes sense, I'm going to focus on the album for now and get back to you. Instead, Brian the neuro-divergent genius or whatever becomes obsessed with Heroes and Villains and stops working on the album that's supposed to come out last month almost completely...

[Zenobi]

Well, I knew nobody would agree with me on this. This is exactly why I titled it my "most heretical take ".

Indeed, I would be disappointed if somebody actually AGREED with me about SMiLE, because that would prove my title wrong.

[BJL]

Well, I knew nobody would agree with me on this. This is exactly why I titled it my "most heretical take ".

Indeed, I would be disappointed if somebody actually AGREED with me about SMiLE, because that would prove my title wrong.

As I said in my first post, I do know what thread I'm in It takes two points of view to have a conversation!

[FreakySmiley]

Ok, but Sgt. Pepper was from 1967 itself, and they were the BEATLES. As I said, SMiLE would probably been critically acclaimed... in 1967. Later? Do you really think SMiLE in 1974 would be MUCH more respected than, say, Holland? I don't so. SMiLE would have been, let's say, too "subtle".

AND REMEMBER... SMILE HAD "MESSED" WITH THE FORMULA, BIG TIME!

Your initial post referred to "once Hendrix Cream etc took off" which would be 1966 at the earliest, no later than 1967 since both had chart-topping LPs released that year, and since Cream had disbanded by 1968... Just considering the examples you have already mentioned.