Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM?

[guitarfool2002]

I think the "overreaction to the perceived reaction" is causing things to get kind of skewed. Bringing up and discussing the shirts thing doesn't mean one is obsessed with it or that they think it's a huge blight on the band's history.

But, I think the most ridiculous attitude is throwing one's hands up in the air and saying "I don't see *anything* worth noting about those shirts *whatsoever*." These are probably the same people who thought Jeff Foskett jumping from Brian's to Mike's band in 2014 had *no* political implications.

In both cases, one can argue whether there were any divisive group politics involved in the actual events/decisions. What can't be argued against, in my opinion, is that if you're familiar with the band's history, these events have the APPEARANCE (even *I'm* tired of over-using the word "optics") of being charged/motivated/informed by group politics.

Foskett jumping to Mike's band? Absolute F-you to Melinda and Brian.

The two well-known and divided factions of Beach Boys showing up in the most visually loud different dress possible outside of Brian wearing a "Smile" shirt and Mike wearing a "Kokomo" shirt? Absolutely comes across as an awkward (or ironic, or embarrassing) visual to accompany the event.

That's all not even getting into whether they look like tools wearing such shirts (regardless of who designed them); I'm no fashion expert. I think once there are multiple members all wearing the same shirt, it certainly seems pretty dorky. I mean, even in the 80s and 90s they all wore *different* Hawaiian shirts, etc.

And that's also all separate from the shirts being Mike's brand. To me, the main potential issue on that count has more to do with the subtext of the event. Mike wasn't trying to "sell his shirts." It's more just an ironic aside that, much like wearing "Beach Boys" and "Mike Love" hats, Mike often seems to like branding himself with, um, himself. If it also turns out Brian and Al turned down the shirts, that would be an additional irony.

I mean, with all the "what about/what ifs", how about this one? Would Mike have worn a Brian Wilson-branded shirt with pics of Brian and Melinda in a warm embrace sewn into the lining?

The band is certainly at a weird place at this late stage in their career. Things are kind of simultaneously more strained/estranged and less so compared to, say, 10 or 15 years ago. There aren't any lawsuits, and they are making appearances together. That shows some level of or ability to put negative stuff aside. But they are also even *more firmly* entrenched into their "side" (apart from Dave, who is kind of a free floater though more often than not skewing towards Mike just in terms of appearing with him), with clearly less desire (at least on the part of Mike) to do any part of his job by committee or at the behest or decisions of anybody else. Also, while no lawsuits have flown between members post-C50, Mike's interviews and comments about Brian (and the Wilson brothers, and sometimes even Al) have become *more* inflammatory and potentially offensive and judgmental.

So, the group meeting is a cool thing to see and certainly isn't a *bad* sign; but I wouldn't assume anything more or anything more harmonious is in the immediate offing. I'm always open to being pleasantly surprised.

Nailed it.
+1

[Juice Brohnston]

Foskett jumping to Mike's band? Absolute F-you to Melinda and Brian.

You state this pretty definitively. Was this the case? Not questioning you, just asking. I remember Jeff saying he was completely burned out, presumably from the many hats he had to wear in Brian's employ. But he also said he loved Brian and hoped he understood. And since his most marketable skills (presumably) are playing Beach Boys songs, and also presuming the man needs to eat, taking a job in Mikes band, seems rational and not motivated by F$%^ing Brian. And Mike would be picking up a valuable asset to his crew, with whom he had spent time as part of the 2012 band, and who actually recruited Jeff way back when.

So I'm interested in how it was orchestrated as an absolute F-U to Brian. What info am I missing?

[NOLA BB Fan]

Al posted on FB re Town Hall:

 "... thanks to everyone involved - hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things!"

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Foskett jumping to Mike's band? Absolute F-you to Melinda and Brian.

You state this pretty definitively. Was this the case? Not questioning you, just asking. I remember Jeff saying he was completely burned out, presumably from the many hats he had to wear in Brian's employ. But he also said he loved Brian and hoped he understood. And since his most marketable skills (presumably) are playing Beach Boys songs, and also presuming the man needs to eat, taking a job in Mikes band, seems rational and not motivated by F$%^ing Brian. And Mike would be picking up a valuable asset to his crew, with whom he had spent time as part of the 2012 band, and who actually recruited Jeff way back when.

So I'm interested in how it was orchestrated as an absolute F-U to Brian. What info am I missing?

He was completely burned out so he left to join a band that played more dates.

[the captain]

I don’t think that’s quite fair, because he also went from being Brian’s main assistant/handler/whatever you want to call it to just being a band member. He mentioned in one interview how it was nice to be able to have more time to enjoy each city on his own as opposed to add’l obligations with Brian. I got the impression that was what he meant by burned out.

[Juice Brohnston]

I don’t think that’s quite fair, because he also went from being Brian’s main assistant/handler/whatever you want to call it to just being a band member. He mentioned in one interview how it was nice to be able to have more time to enjoy each city on his own as opposed to add’l obligations with Brian. I got the impression that was what he meant by burned out.

Exactly, I don't think it was the actual touring, but all the other responsibilities he had, whereas in The Beach Boys, he isn't doing as much heavy lifting, I assume.

[HeyJude]

Foskett jumping to Mike's band? Absolute F-you to Melinda and Brian.

You state this pretty definitively. Was this the case? Not questioning you, just asking. I remember Jeff saying he was completely burned out, presumably from the many hats he had to wear in Brian's employ. But he also said he loved Brian and hoped he understood. And since his most marketable skills (presumably) are playing Beach Boys songs, and also presuming the man needs to eat, taking a job in Mikes band, seems rational and not motivated by F$%^ing Brian. And Mike would be picking up a valuable asset to his crew, with whom he had spent time as part of the 2012 band, and who actually recruited Jeff way back when.

So I'm interested in how it was orchestrated as an absolute F-U to Brian. What info am I missing?

The point of my post was specifically to address *not* why things were orchestrated, but rather to address how things *appear*; the perception/impression they *undeniably* leave. *That's* the way in which I would argue Foskett jumping from Brian to Mike's band was *without question* a big F You to Melinda and Brian. I was referring to people pretending to be (or even more stunningly actually being) incredulous about someone pointing out how much of a political maneuver jumping between those two bands would *always* be, regardless of the intention.

Having said that, it's also true that Foskett's story didn't wash too much in my opinion. As Billy said, Jeff claimed to be stressed out and overworked, but jumped ship to a band that, especially pre-2016, was doing WAAAAY more dates than Brian was.

I have no reason to doubt things Jeff mentioned in the *one* interview he gave on the subject; I have no reason to doubt he was bummed missing out on sight-seeing in cities and not having to worry about anything but just playing and singing on stage. But the trade off was doing a TON more dates. Mike's tour is pretty close to a 12-month gig. There are gaps of a few weeks here and there, and in some years he has taken a full month or two off. But pre-2016, Brian was never doing anywhere near even 100 shows per year let alone the 150-175 that Mike does *every* year.

As was pointed out back then, back in 2013, neither Brian's studio sessions nor live dates were exactly excessive. He did a few dozen gigs that year, and Brian's sets on most of the 2013 dates were extra short sharing the bill with Beck.

Further, going back to Jeff's time with Brian, by *all* accounts, that was a role Jeff *sought out.* He totally wanted to be the guy you had to go through to get to Brian.

Pick up this thread from back in 2014 at this spot and then continue on afterwards; Howie Edelson offers some keen, and balanced and fair observations about Jeff jumping to Mike's band:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18293.msg476418.html#msg476418

So again, I was talking about the *optics* of Jeff's departure. But I also agree with Howie's posts from back then; I think jumping to Mike's band was conceived by both employer and employee as a deep belly wound to the other side (Brian/Melinda).

As it turns out, it isn't just sour grapes in pointing out that Brian's band truly is better off now; Matt Jardine is the best falsetto guy Brian's band has ever had, and someone can go all the way back to 1999 to find me posting that I had wished Matt was in Brian's band. No knock on Foskett. Matt's just a better fit.

[HeyJude]

I don’t think that’s quite fair, because he also went from being Brian’s main assistant/handler/whatever you want to call it to just being a band member. He mentioned in one interview how it was nice to be able to have more time to enjoy each city on his own as opposed to add’l obligations with Brian. I got the impression that was what he meant by burned out.

Exactly, I don't think it was the actual touring, but all the other responsibilities he had, whereas in The Beach Boys, he isn't doing as much heavy lifting, I assume.

Even if we buy that idea (I'm skeptical; I don't think it's a complete fabrication or anything, but for the reasons mentioned in my previous post, I don't fully buy it), it doesn't address the political nature of Jeff jumping to Mike's band. Even if Jeff had no other motive than getting a new job (and as Howie mentioned in his posts from back then, a guy like Foskett doesn't exactly have a million similar job openings to choose from), I have no reason *not* to believe that Mike signed on Foskett as a big giant F-You to Melinda more than anybody else. Just my opinion. But again, going back to Howie's posts, Foskett jumping bands in 2014 was arguably the biggest political maneuver in the BB world since the band fired Brian in 1982 to get him into rehab/detox.

[HeyJude]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

[HeyJude]

Al posted on FB re Town Hall:

 "... thanks to everyone involved - hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things!"

Nice to read; but it's always worth remembering that Al has always been the most (almost obliviously) hopeful about such things. When I met him in 2005, he had just got out from under a bunch of lawsuit stuff and was finally able to call himself legally a "Beach Boy" again, and he was already talking (unprompted!) about reuniting with the other guys.

Even when it was *painfully obvious* Mike had one foot out the door before the reunion tour even ended in 2012, Al was at that Grammy Museum event in September *still* trying to talk Mike into continuing.

But yeah, I can't *not* hope it leads to something bigger and better.

[Juice Brohnston]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

Ok, so it's a hunch, not an absolute. Thanks for correcting.

[HeyJude]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

Ok, so it's a hunch, not an absolute. Thanks for correcting.

Nothing to correct. I think it's pretty darn implicit in characterizing an action as being "a giant F You" to someone that such a thing isn't provable. Short of Foskett giving an interview saying "yep, I felt it was the right moment to stick it to Brian and Melinda", there's no way to prove what the motive was.

My opinion is that any fan that actually knows the history of the band and these guys, and is honest with themselves and doesn't want to have, for lack of a better term, a sort of "mob wife" mentality about what actually goes on behind the scenes with these guys, would see that's it *painfully obvious* that Jeff leaving Brian and joining Mike has "political maneuver" written all over it. It doesn't mean there weren't other mitigating factors as well.

[CenturyDeprived]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

Ok, so it's a hunch, not an absolute. Thanks for correcting.

Here's a question, Juice Brohnston... do you think Melinda perhaps conceived having a larger quantity of actual Beach Boy members (Brian, Al, David, Blondie) on a Brian Wilson tour (when compared to the band touring as "The Beach Boys") as anything but a "F you" to Mike, or do you think that's farfetched?

I think with the bad blood that occurred around that time, it's not logical to think that the sides weren't doing things to intentionally "stick it" to the other. That goes for both sides. And if that wasn't the entire motivation for such maneuvers, it stands to reason that wasn't exactly something that would have *bothered* Melinda.

[HeyJude]

Yes, just to be clear, doing the 2013 "BAM" tour was *totally* also a salvo fired at the other side. It fizzled pretty fast for a variety of reasons (the Jeff Beck aspect I think being one), but it was certainly devised with some post-C50 group politics in mind. Not that I minded as a fan; they were essentially trying to keep the C50 tour going as much as they could.

[Juice Brohnston]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

Ok, so it's a hunch, not an absolute. Thanks for correcting.

Here's a question, Juice Brohnston... do you think Melinda perhaps conceived having a larger quantity of actual Beach Boy members (Brian, Al, David, Blondie) on a Brian Wilson tour (when compared to the band touring as "The Beach Boys") as anything but a "F you" to Mike, or do you think that's farfetched?

I think with the bad blood that occurred around that time, it's not logical to think that the sides weren't doing things to intentionally "stick it" to the other. That goes for both sides. And if that wasn't the entire motivation for such maneuvers, it stands to reason that wasn't exactly something that would have *bothered* Melinda.

Personally, the thought has never occurred to me. Al was going to stick with Brian. Bringing Blondie in was a cool move, especially when it makes sense to divvy up the vocals in that band. Dave seems to move around pretty freely.

[Juice Brohnston]

Also, as I've said a few times, separately from anything to do with why or how Foskett jumped bands, my *opinion* based on my own deductions and talking to some other folks is that Foskett may just be angling to take over the "Beach Boys" license once Mike is no longer able or willing to tour. Don't know how likely that would ever be to happen, and a lot would depend on who is still around and the circumstances of such a succession of events.

But it's worth noting that Foskett didn't just join as another dude in Mike's band. Check out Mike's Facebook page; Jeff basically became somewhat of a Bruce/Stamos status stand-in. Numerous events where there are only two members of the touring band present: Mike and Jeff.

Also, and again this is only *my opinion/hunch*, I find it interesting that Mike's negative rhetoric towards Brian and Brian's "camp" seemed to amp up after Jeff joined Mike's band.

Ok, so it's a hunch, not an absolute. Thanks for correcting.

Nothing to correct. I think it's pretty darn implicit in characterizing an action as being "a giant F You" to someone that such a thing isn't provable. Short of Foskett giving an interview saying "yep, I felt it was the right moment to stick it to Brian and Melinda", there's no way to prove what the motive was.

My opinion is that any fan that actually knows the history of the band and these guys, and is honest with themselves and doesn't want to have, for lack of a better term, a sort of "mob wife" mentality about what actually goes on behind the scenes with these guys, would see that's it *painfully obvious* that Jeff leaving Brian and joining Mike has "political maneuver" written all over it. It doesn't mean there weren't other mitigating factors as well.

Well your absolute isn't an absolute. I think that is 100% absolute.
You may feel strongly that his actions were politically motivated, I'm not sure to what end. The guy seems to have really worked hard with Brian to get him back to a permorming artist. And it is not a huge leap to believe that, Jeff acted in what could be called an extra-ordinary capacity to Brian, and that that type of work could burn you out after 15-20 years, and maybe he just wanted a change but wanted to keep playing music. And Mike offered him a job. I'm not saying that's absolutely the way it went down, but it's certainly plausible.

You can't say with 100% certainty that Jeff joining Mikes band was an absolute f-u to Brian. That's all. I thought maybe you had some definitive proof which is why I raised the question.

[B.E.]

Al posted on FB re Town Hall:

 "... thanks to everyone involved - hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things!"

Whoa, awesome! Thanks for posting.

[HeyJude]

Personally, the thought has never occurred to me. Al was going to stick with Brian. Bringing Blondie in was a cool move, especially when it makes sense to divvy up the vocals in that band. Dave seems to move around pretty freely.

You really saw nothing political about Brian, who pre-C50 had been touring *on his own*, had only done about a dozen dates in 2006/07 with Al that, supposedly, didn't end too well, and had never toured with Dave or Blondie, all of a sudden in 2013 taking *three to four* Beach Boys out on tour?

If some fans want to keep the blinders on about any of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, that's totally one's prerogative. But then you're probably going to meet a lot of confusion and corrections from other fans/experts if you remain incredulous but insist on actually delving into the topic of political maneuvering and band names and band lineups and all of that.

Do you also think there was nothing political about Dennis's 1977 "Pacific Ocean Blue" tour being kiboshed?

Do you think there was nothing political about a big hunk of the touring band being let go in 1977/78?

Do you think there was nothing political about BRI supposedly sending people to Al's gigs in 1999 "searching" for fans who were "confused"?

Do you think it's a total coincidence during the band's 1980 Good Morning America interview that some of the other members look like they want to either strangle Dennis or run away as far as possible?

Do you think there was anything political about Jeff Foskett leaving the touring band in 1990, or do you just think it was a normal case of moving on to something else? Oh yeah, that's right, Foskett himself in the mid-90s gave an interview explaining in stunning detail why he was let go from the band.

I'm all for taking a step back and not immediately thinking the worst of these guys or jumping to elaborate theories. But it's also silly to assume there's no context to anything to do with this band's history outside of what they choose to say or not say publically.

[HeyJude]

Well your absolute isn't an absolute. I think that is 100% absolute.
You may feel strongly that his actions were politically motivated, I'm not sure to what end. The guy seems to have really worked hard with Brian to get him back to a permorming artist. And it is not a huge leap to believe that, Jeff acted in what could be called an extra-ordinary capacity to Brian, and that that type of work could burn you out after 15-20 years, and maybe he just wanted a change but wanted to keep playing music. And Mike offered him a job. I'm not saying that's absolutely the way it went down, but it's certainly plausible.

You can't say with 100% certainty that Jeff joining Mikes band was an absolute f-u to Brian. That's all. I thought maybe you had some definitive proof which is why I raised the question.

With all due respect, thinking there would ever be a way to *prove* that an action is a "giant F you" to someone is more of a head-scratcher than not believing it's a giant F-you in the first place. It's a totally colloquial term; outside of Jeff actually holding a press conference in 2014 announcing joining Mike's band and then saying out loud "F--k you Melinda and Brian!", such a thing OBVIOUSLY isn't provable.

Again, let me repeat: I believe it's a 100% absolute that Jeff leaving Brian and joining Mike GIVES THE APPEARANCE of a giant F-you to Mike given the band's history, and I would tend to not heavily trust or weigh the opinion of any fan or proclaimed "expert" who refused to acknowledge as such.

What can NEVER be said to be an absolute is the ACTUAL MOTIVE for the move, on either side. That part of it is opinion/educated guesses/deduction, etc.

[Debbie KL]

If even mainstream media outlets are picking up on the "Beach Boys 101" nature of the questions, it's probably good to temper our expectations regarding the actual Q&A itself. I already have, but even I'm surprised how basic some of the questions were.

But such is the nature of these events. I didn't expect someone to ask about the C50 tour.  

Well, Rob Reiner is obviously a fan, but he's more interested in his own https://twitter.com/InvestigateRU...There's so much going on right now that we all need breaks and Brian's creations heal...But I'm glad that there are BB/BW experts who enjoy debating all the musical/history details and adding their comments here...

As far as all the Foskett commentary, does anyone know exactly how much time he actually spent as Brian's assistant in the last years and how much time he was spending planning his future and courting core BB fans with his time and free tickets? Just curious. I wasn't there, clearly...

[Juice Brohnston]

Personally, the thought has never occurred to me. Al was going to stick with Brian. Bringing Blondie in was a cool move, especially when it makes sense to divvy up the vocals in that band. Dave seems to move around pretty freely.

You really saw nothing political about Brian, who pre-C50 had been touring *on his own*, had only done about a dozen dates in 2006/07 with Al that, supposedly, didn't end too well, and had never toured with Dave or Blondie, all of a sudden in 2013 taking *three to four* Beach Boys out on tour?

If some fans want to keep the blinders on about any of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, that's totally one's prerogative. But then you're probably going to meet a lot of confusion and corrections from other fans/experts if you remain incredulous but insist on actually delving into the topic of political maneuvering and band names and band lineups and all of that.

Do you also think there was nothing political about Dennis's 1977 "Pacific Ocean Blue" tour being kiboshed?

Do you think there was nothing political about a big hunk of the touring band being let go in 1977/78?

Do you think there was nothing political about BRI supposedly sending people to Al's gigs in 1999 "searching" for fans who were "confused"?

Do you think it's a total coincidence during the band's 1980 Good Morning America interview that some of the other members look like they want to either strangle Dennis or run away as far as possible?

Do you think there was anything political about Jeff Foskett leaving the touring band in 1990, or do you just think it was a normal case of moving on to something else? Oh yeah, that's right, Foskett himself in the mid-90s gave an interview explaining in stunning detail why he was let go from the band.

I'm all for taking a step back and not immediately thinking the worst of these guys or jumping to elaborate theories. But it's also silly to assume there's no context to anything to do with this band's history outside of what they choose to say or not say publically.

Honestly, no. Maybe I think more of Brian and Al then you do, but I think the real motivation was that they were stoked about C50 and wanted to keep going, so they primarily were motivated by wanting to play together. I don't think the deciding factor was, let's stick it to Mike. "I'd rather be at the Deli, AL, but I'll suck it up and do 80 shows, just to piss Mike off"

No blinders here, I love a salacious gossipy tale of backstabbing and revenge. And several of the events you go on to itemize surely had those qualities.

What I wanted to know was what proof you had to say Absolutely, that Jeff going over to Mike's band was a FU to Brian. Ya didn't have any. That's ok. I was just curious to hear it if it existed.

BTW it's been a while since I read the interview about Jeff leaving back in the day..but I seem to remember it was brutally honest and not real sugar coated, which might leave me to believe him when he discussed his departure from Brian's group.

[Debbie KL]

Personally, the thought has never occurred to me. Al was going to stick with Brian. Bringing Blondie in was a cool move, especially when it makes sense to divvy up the vocals in that band. Dave seems to move around pretty freely.

You really saw nothing political about Brian, who pre-C50 had been touring *on his own*, had only done about a dozen dates in 2006/07 with Al that, supposedly, didn't end too well, and had never toured with Dave or Blondie, all of a sudden in 2013 taking *three to four* Beach Boys out on tour?

If some fans want to keep the blinders on about any of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, that's totally one's prerogative. But then you're probably going to meet a lot of confusion and corrections from other fans/experts if you remain incredulous but insist on actually delving into the topic of political maneuvering and band names and band lineups and all of that.

Do you also think there was nothing political about Dennis's 1977 "Pacific Ocean Blue" tour being kiboshed?

Do you think there was nothing political about a big hunk of the touring band being let go in 1977/78?

Do you think there was nothing political about BRI supposedly sending people to Al's gigs in 1999 "searching" for fans who were "confused"?

Do you think it's a total coincidence during the band's 1980 Good Morning America interview that some of the other members look like they want to either strangle Dennis or run away as far as possible?

Do you think there was anything political about Jeff Foskett leaving the touring band in 1990, or do you just think it was a normal case of moving on to something else? Oh yeah, that's right, Foskett himself in the mid-90s gave an interview explaining in stunning detail why he was let go from the band.

I'm all for taking a step back and not immediately thinking the worst of these guys or jumping to elaborate theories. But it's also silly to assume there's no context to anything to do with this band's history outside of what they choose to say or not say publically.

Honestly, no. Maybe I think more of Brian and Al then you do, but I think the real motivation was that they were stoked about C50 and wanted to keep going, so they primarily were motivated by wanting to play together. I don't think the deciding factor was, let's stick it to Mike. "I'd rather be at the Deli, AL, but I'll suck it up and do 80 shows, just to piss Mike off"

No blinders here, I love a salacious gossipy tale of backstabbing and revenge. And several of the events you go on to itemize surely had those qualities.

What I wanted to know was what proof you had to say Absolutely, that Jeff going over to Mike's band was a FU to Brian. Ya didn't have any. That's ok. I was just curious to hear it if it existed.

BTW it's been a while since I read the interview about Jeff leaving back in the day..but I seem to remember it was brutally honest and not real sugar coated, which might leave me to believe him when he discussed his departure from Brian's group.

It's a little tough to separate "brutally honest" from "self-serving" maybe? Have you heard the comments since? I have no idea if it was an FU to Brian. I doubt Jeff is thinking about anything aside from his career. Fair enough, and more reasonable.

[Juice Brohnston]

I believe it's a 100% absolute that Jeff leaving Brian and joining Mike GIVES THE APPEARANCE of a giant F-you

Getting closer  

[HeyJude]

Honestly, no. Maybe I think more of Brian and Al then you do, but I think the real motivation was that they were stoked about C50 and wanted to keep going, so they primarily were motivated by wanting to play together. I don't think the deciding factor was, let's stick it to Mike. "I'd rather be at the Deli, AL, but I'll suck it up and do 80 shows, just to piss Mike off"

No blinders here, I love a salacious gossipy tale of backstabbing and revenge. And several of the events you go on to itemize surely had those qualities.

What I wanted to know was what proof you had to say Absolutely, that Jeff going over to Mike's band was a FU to Brian. Ya didn't have any. That's ok. I was just curious to hear it if it existed.

BTW it's been a while since I read the interview about Jeff leaving back in the day..but I seem to remember it was brutally honest and not real sugar coated, which might leave me to believe him when he discussed his departure from Brian's group.

I think as highly of Brian and Al as anyone. I also believe they're human, and I also actually pay close attention to the history of the band, and talk to fans, scholars, insiders, and so on.

I'm *almost* jealous of a fan that can exist in blissful ignorance as to any of the myriad of post-C50 political maneuvers/comments from both sides (and after 2013 mostly just Mike).

But my thing is, if you want to not pay attention to it and feel that everything they do or don't do should get seven thumbs up, then cool. But it's going to be very difficult to then delve into discussions like this that *specifically* entail various amounts of backroom politics.

And again, the "giant F you" thing, I have no idea why anyone would ever think such a thing would be provable. I'm amazed someone asked and didn't immediately understand the nature of such a characterization.

It's not too dissimilar to the possibly-apocryphal "Don't f**k with the formula" line. Like many of his supporters, Mike tries to glom on to the idea that the specific quote is technically incorrect, that he never uttered those exact words. But that's OBVIOUSLY not the point. I'm all for historical accuracy and it's always important to *not* actually offer that as a confirmed quote if it can't be confirmed. But the overarching point is that that totally has been a fair summation/approximation of the sentiment Mike has expressed many times in interviews.

Similarly, I've never contended Jeff Foskett actually said "F--k you, I'm leaving you for Mike" to Melinda or Brian.

Regarding Jeff's mid-90s interview versus his 2014 interview, it's ALL ABOUT CONTEXT. For his 2014 interview, he was currently employed by Mike and obviously wanted to keep his job. In the mid-90s, he was not employed by anybody related to the Beach Boys, was a few years out from having been fired, and there was no prospect for any solo tours to rejoin. It was far easier for him to be much more forthcoming and not leave anything out in that mid-90s interview. I appreciate his honesty in that mid-90s interview. I don't believe his 2014 interview was nearly as forthcoming and seemed to have large gaps. I don't think what *was* there in that 2014 interview could be characterized as lying in any way. I just think the whole thing smelled like an incomplete story, and we've laid out a bunch of his head-scratching stated reasoning in recent posts.

[HeyJude]

I believe it's a 100% absolute that Jeff leaving Brian and joining Mike GIVES THE APPEARANCE of a giant F-you

Getting closer  

You're getting closer to reading and understanding what I've been writing this entire time? I hope. Otherwise, it's getting into troll-ish territory. "In my opinion" of course.