What prospects did the original double-sided '15 Big Ones' album have?

[ash]

There is a big problem with the arranging. Funnily enough, Break Away has a slightly bizarre vocal arrangement - Bruce once commented that they sound like old men which i can hear. Still a stunner though.
On 15BO Mike's voice is more nasal by this point (actually irritating is the word i'm looking for) and only Carl and Al could sing like they used to. Brian and Dennis are rasping croakers. Maybe that left too many voices in the upper mid range and lower making the whole thing cluttered and leaving the top lines exposed. Quality vocal arranging is quite an art form. These guys hadn't sung much together as a 5 piece for a while and the top line singer's voice is gone. Swapping parts alone changes the vocal blend significantly - these could all be factors. Of course the arrangements could just be plain bad like the rest of the album (except the Had To Phone You backing track !!!) .

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

On 15BO Mike's voice is more nasal by this point (actually irritating is the word i'm looking for) and only Carl and Al could sing like they used to. Brian and Dennis are rasping croakers.

Dennis's voice was harsh when he shouted, but there's a richness to his voice which if anything, would have worked better in a decent vocal arrangement than in the sixties. Thing of the 'little baby go to sleep' at the end of I wanna pick you up. Carl had lost some of his smoothness...was he in his 'booze' vocal period at this point?

I think the main problem is that Brian seemed to have lost the ability to sing softly- almost like he had to shout to hit the notes, and it sounds like the rest of the band are trying to match him. And back to the arrangements- there seem to be few points where say Carl and Al are holding some 'oohs' whilst Dennis is runweooing and Mike is bipping. There are just way too many moments where it feels like they are all shouting the same thing, at the same time.

[Cabinessenceking]

There is a big problem with the arranging. Funnily enough, Break Away has a slightly bizarre vocal arrangement - Bruce once commented that they sound like old men which i can hear. Still a stunner though.
On 15BO Mike's voice is more nasal by this point (actually irritating is the word i'm looking for) and only Carl and Al could sing like they used to. Brian and Dennis are rasping croakers. Maybe that left too many voices in the upper mid range and lower making the whole thing cluttered and leaving the top lines exposed. Quality vocal arranging is quite an art form. These guys hadn't sung much together as a 5 piece for a while and the top line singer's voice is gone. Swapping parts alone changes the vocal blend significantly - these could all be factors. Of course the arrangements could just be plain bad like the rest of the album (except the Had To Phone You backing track !!!) .

Actually I think they tried to keep Brian doing his classic falsetto parts. All the falsetto parts on 15BO are Brian's (Chapel Of Love, In The Still Of The Night). But there are some weird vocal overdubs by Brian which are horrendous and sound like he's trying to add some gospel-like  oooh's and yeeaaah's (Back Home, That Same Song and Chapel Of Love in particular). Absolute crap. It almost sounds like they don't respect their audience anymore. Many must've thought "oh so they record some quick covers to cash in?". This is probably closer to the truth than anything else.

[Phoenix]

And keeping things on topic, the version I have includes the bit where the DJ refers to it as "an exclusive preview from the Beach Boys unreleased double album."  Does anyone know when that broadcast originally aired?  I'm curious to know how far along the plans changed for the mix of the song and the length of the album.

Nevermind.  The tracklisting on the back says the announcement, and the interview with Carl that precedes, were broadcast in spring of 1976.  Since 15 Big Ones came out in June, the album (which the DJ says was still untitled at the time) was still slated to be a double until very late in the game.

[drbeachboy]

There is a big problem with the arranging. Funnily enough, Break Away has a slightly bizarre vocal arrangement - Bruce once commented that they sound like old men which i can hear. Still a stunner though.
On 15BO Mike's voice is more nasal by this point (actually irritating is the word i'm looking for) and only Carl and Al could sing like they used to. Brian and Dennis are rasping croakers. Maybe that left too many voices in the upper mid range and lower making the whole thing cluttered and leaving the top lines exposed. Quality vocal arranging is quite an art form. These guys hadn't sung much together as a 5 piece for a while and the top line singer's voice is gone. Swapping parts alone changes the vocal blend significantly - these could all be factors. Of course the arrangements could just be plain bad like the rest of the album (except the Had To Phone You backing track !!!) .

Actually I think they tried to keep Brian doing his classic falsetto parts. All the falsetto parts on 15BO are Brian's (Chapel Of Love, In The Still Of The Night). But there are some weird vocal overdubs by Brian which are horrendous and sound like he's trying to add some gospel-like  oooh's and yeeaaah's (Back Home, That Same Song and Chapel Of Love in particular). Absolute crap. It almost sounds like they don't respect their audience anymore. Many must've thought "oh so they record some quick covers to cash in?". This is probably closer to the truth than anything else.

Back in 1976, the old original fans that I knew loved this album. To them the type of music was more to their liking. I don't remember too much complaining about their singing, except expressing shock over the change in Brian's voice. sh*t, even I was shocked at that too.

[Sound of Free]

I've said it before here, but I'll say it agin, a perfect song for 15 Big Ones would have been San Miguel.

At a time when people were looking for "fun in the sun" songs after Endless Summer, San Miguel would have perfect and it was all set to release "as is." Sure, it wasn't new, buy neither was Susie Cincinnati.

Put San Miguel on and have Carl fix his vocal flub on Soulful Old Man Sunshine and out those in place of two of the covers and the album is a lot stronger. Plus SOMS gives another Brian credit for the "Brian's Back" campaign, even if the song was more Rick Henn than Brian.

[ash]

I've said it before here, but I'll say it agin, a perfect song for 15 Big Ones would have been San Miguel.

At a time when people were looking for "fun in the sun" songs after Endless Summer, San Miguel would have perfect and it was all set to release "as is." Sure, it wasn't new, buy neither was Susie Cincinnati.

Put San Miguel on and have Carl fix his vocal flub on Soulful Old Man Sunshine and out those in place of two of the covers and the album is a lot stronger. Plus SOMS gives another Brian credit for the "Brian's Back" campaign, even if the song was more Rick Henn than Brian.

I think you're on the right track. First we burn the 15BO master tape and in it's place we have
Side 1
Soulful Old Man Sunshine/ San Miguel/ Susie Cincinnati/ Loop de Loop/ Had To Phone Ya (instrumental)/ Do You Like Worms (with Al dubbing on the lead vocal)/ Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again/ol man river

See label for correct playing order.
I'll leave side 2 to the rest of you but looking at what we have so far, i'm telling you Brian's back.
BTW don't let Torrance anywhere near the artwork.

[Phoenix]

I've said it before here, but I'll say it agin, a perfect song for 15 Big Ones would have been San Miguel.

At a time when people were looking for "fun in the sun" songs after Endless Summer, San Miguel would have perfect and it was all set to release "as is." Sure, it wasn't new, buy neither was Susie Cincinnati.

Put San Miguel on and have Carl fix his vocal flub on Soulful Old Man Sunshine and out those in place of two of the covers and the album is a lot stronger. Plus SOMS gives another Brian credit for the "Brian's Back" campaign, even if the song was more Rick Henn than Brian.

That's some seriously smart thinking!  Where were you in 1976!? 

[Fro]

I think the best way to make this work would be to use the album flip as a divider, with "River Song" kicking off the 2nd half.

The 1st side would have songs like "It's Ok" and "Good Timin'" with the more traditional Beach Boys sound.

[Smile4ever]

So is the consensus that 15 Big Ones actually ruined their career? (Instead of saved it as they hoped)

[Wirestone]

So is the consensus that 15 Big Ones actually ruined their career? (Instead of saved it as they hoped)

The one-two-three punch of 15 BO, followed by the inscrutable (at the time) Love You and the bland M.I.U. certainly didn't help them. The hype got them a hit record, but at the cost of artistic credibility. And Love You has to be one of the strangest records ever released by a classic rock band.

By the time they got their act together, however momentarily, with L.A., it was too late.

[clack]

So is the consensus that 15 Big Ones actually ruined their career? (Instead of saved it as they hoped)

The one-two-three punch of 15 BO, followed by the inscrutable (at the time) Love You and the bland M.I.U. certainly didn't help them. The hype got them a hit record, but at the cost of artistic credibility. And Love You has to be one of the strangest records ever released by a classic rock band.

By the time they got their act together, however momentarily, with L.A., it was too late.

This "one-two-three punch" didn't help matters, for sure, but even if '15 Big Ones' had garnered artistic credibility up the wazoo, the fact is larger factors were at work in the late 70's rock scene that would have marginalized  the Beach Boys in any case : namely, the rise of punk and New Wave.

Lots of big name acts got caught on the wrong side of the New Wave/"Dinosaur" divide of the late 70's early 80's -- Paul McCartney, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Peter Frampton, the Moody Blues, etc. etc. Out with the old, in with the new : that's the story of pop music. It was like 1964 or 1967 all over again.

[Julia]

What prospects did the original double-sided '15 Big Ones' album have?
None. It's so sad to watch a sweet thing die.
I can't think of anything positive to say about this album in any configuration. Even if Brian had been persuaded to resurrect the Smile material it would have been a disaster. I honestly believe they had no idea what a good record was and would have ruined pretty much anything they tried to record and did.
Only Dennis seemed to have any record making skills by this time and Brian was clearly very badly messed up and in no position to be in charge of a recording project even for as long as his concentration lasted. Allegedly less time than it took you to read this far.
The choice of material is bad, the production is bad,the singing is bad, the sleeve is bad, the rock 'n'roll music single is unspeakably dreadful. It's isn't rock'n' roll or music in the slightest.
The only good thing i can think of to say about this record is that i have no idea where my copy is. I cannot believe i own it on cd as well. I must be more stupid than the label that agreed to release it.
They would have been better off producing an archival release - I have often wondered how the great tracks we heard on Endless Harmony,Hawthorne,Good Vibrations box etc.  stayed in the can. Was Carl really too worried till he died about the flubbed "shunshine" to allow Old Man Sunshine to be released. If that's true i'd be interested in hearing his justification for every Beach Boys album from 15 big ones to Summer In Paradise.
I can't believe the other oldies being touted - Shake rattle and roll, peggy sue, school days. Why ?  Did they honestly think they could add anything to those or even think their versions were "rockin' " or "pretty neat". Clearly meditation is as dangerous as marijuana and meth or whatever drug(s) of choice the Wilsons were using.
It also strikes me that the guys were pretty much unable to agree on anything at this point. In one band meeting the proposal that the sky is generally blue was voted down 3 against 2.*
Maybe the overall dysfunctional problems within the band from rivalries,band divisions/politics thru drugs and drink, faded creativity and mental illness had finally caught up with them. Never the prettiest of bands, god they look like absolute **** and seriously creepy on the cover. Double yikes.
Does anyone think they ever recovered from this musical misstep ? It was their last chance and they blew it off pretty much forever.
When i've been in the USA over the last 25 years many people i've met (when the conversation turns to music) are gob smacked when i say i like the Beach Boys. They're a joke band with a mental guy (that's Brian btw not Mike).
I think this attitude stems largely (but not entirely) from this period.  Perhaps only last years reunion really began to repair any of the damage but as soon as  the tour finished  they ended up sparring in the press again just like the old days.
At least following 15 Big Ones things cpouldn't get worse for the band......oh they did ? Damn.

Please feel free to delete this post if it's too much.
I'm gonna listen to Bob Dylan's Self Portrait in an effort to calm down.
I'm just so angry thinking about this album and everything it represents. Actually maybe i should listen to Friends..yep feelin better already.

*ok i exaggerate

Congratulations, he who has not posted in 10 years, for penning one of my top ~5 favorite posts in all of SmileySmile  This is dead-on accurate and brutally honest in a way that makes me feel justified in my own blunt opinions.

A second chance of a lifetime, and they deliver the worst album of their career so far. There are lots of fascinating "what if's" in the BB's story, but 15 Bog Ones is just plain sad one.

And come to think of it... They tried to shoot down quite a few of Brian's ambitious ideas during the wilderness years ('Til I Die, Fairytale, Old Man River...) but when he clearly had no ambitions or ideas left, THAT'S when they decided to give him free rein?

Carl and Dennis should have stood up and voice their opinions loud and clear well before anything was released.

Great post. A huge missed opportunity and a very poor album that I can't help but love! It's hard to fathom how anyone went along with the release of this album (band mates, management, record label etc). Something of reasonable quality could easily have led to a renewed interest in new Beach Boys music, but also to what they'd done in the previous 6-7 years. Instead we got an album light on new compositions and heavy on bizarre covers. Dennis probably lacked some of skills needed to lead the group, but it's a huge shame the group couldn't do something more with his material. I'm fairly sure he had an albums worth of very good songs available (based on what I think was written by this point) and half-decent recordings of those would have easily surpassed 15 BO. A missed opportunity.

I love putting together alternate track lists for Beach Boys albums (and I know some people find this an odd thing to do), but I struggle to get anything cohesive together for this era. Dennis' stuff is so well written, produced and performed that it clashes heavily with Brian's work from this period (which can be sloppy). Listening to something like Rainbows alongside something like Back Home is quite jarring to my ears, but I love them both. In an ideal world, I'd have one album compiled from the best original material from 15BO and Love You, with a bonus album of covers (including 'Sea Cruise' and possibly others) and then put something together using Dennis' material and the better stuff from MIU/LA. I'm useless at doing this though, so I'm never satisfied!

^These two comments are very accurate as well. 15BO was their first truly awful, unsalvageable album. I can now definitively say that as I finally got around to listening to everything in their discography. Every other release, even if they're not always my cup of tea, have some great songs and competent musicianship/production as well as GREAT vocals. Even the ones I don't particularly care for, like SD(SN) and Friends, have one or two all-time great songs to justify themselves. Even SU has Til I Die, the premiere of the title track to the record buying public, and meant something to the kids that bought it in '72. 15BO has...Had to Phone Ya. Not only was there far from an album's worth of material here but even if they scoured the vaults for Dennis' rejected songs, CWTL, SMiLE...it just wouldn't fit with the aesthetic Brian was recording in nor would it have gelled as a cohesive whole.

In a perfect world, they keep Blondie and Ricky, keep on in the Holland direction, use more of Dennis' material (imagine a POB with BB harmonies!) and leave Brian alone. Let him bring them material as it comes naturally--which would've happened with LY a year later had they only been patient. If Brian doesn't want to do the whole "studio maestro" thing, let him write the melodies and you guys figure out which instrument would best suit each part--it'll be good practice for you! Just feels like these guys needed a good leader. I know Jack Reilley had his issues but he seemed to do a good job keeping the band relatively cool, keeping their lame impulses in check and churning out good product. I think letting him go was a big mistake in hindsight.

Weren't there earlier mixes/versions of the 15 Big Ones material attempted by Brian? I recall someone saying Boyd found them more idiosyncratic and ballsier than what was eventually released. It's entirely possible Brian's apathy toward the final mixes stemmed from the rejection of the earlier approach he was taking.

If that's really true, it's staggering. This is by far the most frustrating aspect of the band--they needed Brian, they felt entitled to him, prevented him from branching out, and yet beginning with arguably Pet Sounds they always complained or denigrated what he brought them. From SMiLE to Til I Die to Mt Vernon to LY and A/C on through the Paley sessions. So ungrateful, so misguided, so detrimental to both him and the band in the long run. They just couldn't get out of their own way--they wanted Brian to keep writing music that sounded like 1965 forever when music was constantly changing and Brian was almost always on the ball of where to go. (A/C I think would've been seen as a weird misstep but probably reappraised same as Smiley over the decades.) They seriously needed to either take what Brian offered and be grateful or let him produce other artists without guilt. I do think David Leaf is wrong in never letting the other guys speak their peace in his books/movie but it's not hard to see where he got the "Brian and the 5 assholes" narrative from, if it's an oversimplification it's at least borne of truth.