What would Murry's reputation be like if he hadn't died young?

[CenturyDeprived]

I don't really have much of a concept of how vilified Murry was (publicly-speaking) in his lifetime, but what if he'd kept on living into the 1980s and 1990s? Might Murry still being around and living have caused a small fanbase to arise which would try to defend him and keep the sh*t-talking at bay?

Even Murry's own Wikipedia page lists him as a "domineering and manipulative man", which I think few people would argue with. Would legit sites/publications be as quick to label an elderly, living Murry as such? Or would the only reason they might avoid such labels be out of fear of legal retaliation?

Maybe Joe Jackson's current reputation might be a good parallel (amazing that he is still living!), but being as I am not a Michael Jackson superfan or member of the online MJ fan community, I can't really say if there now or were ever a group of hardcore Joe Jackson defenders.

[the captain]

History hasn't tended to be kind to the likes of Murry, authoritarian and abusive. However bad he seemed in the '70s, he seems double or trebly bad after. Presumably he'd be dead regardless by now (being 100). But I can't imagine his reputation getting better than it was. At best, people might cut him slack for being a relic of another time, a pathetic figure.

[Lonely Summer]

People might be more forgiving if they knew that he had been abused as a child, too. And he surely did love music, passed that love onto his sons. I imagine that if he had lived, he and Dennis might go out and pound the old Budweiser a few times.

[Willy Wilson]

People might be more forgiving if they knew that he had been abused as a child, too. And he surely did love music, passed that love onto his sons. I imagine that if he had lived, he and Dennis might go out and pound the old Budweiser a few times.

This. And folks can mellow as they get older. I would imagine all Wilson brothers would be very forgiving too.

[Lonely Summer]

People might be more forgiving if they knew that he had been abused as a child, too. And he surely did love music, passed that love onto his sons. I imagine that if he had lived, he and Dennis might go out and pound the old Budweiser a few times.

This. And folks can mellow as they get older. I would imagine all Wilson brothers would be very forgiving too.

My own father was a bit of a monster when he was younger, but he is much mellower now.

[DonnyL]

For all we know, had he lived, Murry may have made amends and apologized for past deeds. That goes a long way.

[Adult Child]

I think Carl and Dennis could've and would've forgiven him easily if he'd lived and mellowed out later on but whether Brian truly could've is a different story. Brian would've probably needed an answer he could never get.

[Needleinthehay]

Didnt dennis call and watch boxing with him over the phone in later years. Seems like Ive read multiple times that dennis and him had sort of gotten closer towards the end.

[Lonely Summer]

Didnt dennis call and watch boxing with him over the phone in later years. Seems like Ive read multiple times that dennis and him had sort of gotten closer towards the end.

I think that was mentioned in the David Leaf book. And it's possible that Murry would have eventually asked Brian for forgiveness. Probably a death bed plea, but better late than never. I have no doubt in my mind that Murry loved all of his sons, but he grew up in a time when men were supposed to be tough, hard, manly. He was like my dad. My dad has never told me he loves me. When he would come out to see my band play, he might say something complimentary about the other band members, but never me. I've never seen him cry. Cause you know, crying is for wussies.

[CenturyDeprived]

Didnt dennis call and watch boxing with him over the phone in later years. Seems like Ive read multiple times that dennis and him had sort of gotten closer towards the end.

I think that was mentioned in the David Leaf book. And it's possible that Murry would have eventually asked Brian for forgiveness. Probably a death bed plea, but better late than never. I have no doubt in my mind that Murry loved all of his sons, but he grew up in a time when men were supposed to be tough, hard, manly. He was like my dad. My dad has never told me he loves me. When he would come out to see my band play, he might say something complimentary about the other band members, but never me. I've never seen him cry. Cause you know, crying is for wussies.

Sorry man. I get that.

[Sound of Free]

I think Murry, Brian and Dennis all needed the same thing, a good psychiatrist. Murry was abused by his dad, and Brian and Dennis were abused by Murry.

I think a lot of Brian and Dennis' downward spirals were because they never resolved their issues with Murry. Needleinthehay is right that Dennis tried to make peace, but I don't think they got there before Murry died, and supposedly during Dennis' last few months, he kept talking about Murray and the things he died.

Brian and Dennis skipping their dad's funeral showed the depth of their issues with him, even though I firmly believe they loved him, and he loved them. If Brian and Dennis had gone to a good psychiatrist after Murry's death and dealt with their daddy issues, I think things would have turned out much differently for them.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It's funny that this is being posted now, as I just had a discussion with a friend discussing what might have happened if Murry had been alive during the Landy years (either first or second period)

[Lonely Summer]

It's funny that this is being posted now, as I just had a discussion with a friend discussing what might have happened if Murry had been alive during the Landy years (either first or second period)

Or what if Dennis had been around in the later years of the second Landy? I think he would have pummeled the diminutive shrink!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Oh yeah, he would've beat the holy hell out of him

[Willy Wilson]

I bet Murry would've been over the moon to see The Many Moods of Murry Wilson available on iTunes, with digital booklet too.

"You're not the only genius available through Apple's media management software, Brian."

[Jay]

It's funny that this is being posted now, as I just had a discussion with a friend discussing what might have happened if Murry had been alive during the Landy years (either first or second period)

I was just about to post this very question.  What would Murry have done about Landry? I think it's plausible that Murry might have gotten on landy's side during the first "era", once he saw improvements in Brian. If Murray had lived into the 1980's or early 1990's, I think it would have been awesome had Murry been a "papa lion", so to speak, and personally gone to put the fear of God into Landy if he didn't skip town and never go near his son again. 

[joshferrell]

He would have joined the Beach Boys in the late 70's  just after "Love You' would have been their producer until Brian left Landy's care then he would go solo...lol

[CenturyDeprived]

He would have joined the Beach Boys in the late 70's  just after "Love You' would have been their producer until Brian left Landy's care then he would go solo...lol

Geez, that is indeed a weird alternate universe. Murry somehow getting to cowrite or coproduce a BB song again in the late 70s.  Maybe it could have happened. After all, Brian tinkered around with (and eventually released) a heavy rewrite of a Murry tune as a solo tune years later.

[guitarfool2002]

Murry came from a different universe in terms of what was expected of a man and how a man was expected to act. Showing outward emotion was showing weakness, talking out problems wasn't done as it is today, rather spending time with a bottle of hooch or a case of beer would often be the psychotherapy, and even in the post-war late 40's and 50's when it was badly needed, psychoanalysis was simply not addressing the problems faced by millions of vets and their families, often to great personal tragedy. There was no PTSD - If a guy would get the shakes after a car on the block backfired, he was having "shell shock" and someone might suggest giving him a few belts of whiskey to calm down. My dad told me stories about guys he knew who came home from WW2 like that, sad stuff. There wasn't enough treatment available or even known so it could be dispensed accordingly.

Murry's code came from the "buck up" attitude where you didn't go to a therapist to talk, but rather worked harder and kept your mouth shut in public as an expected behavior. As much as the guy provided for his family, and he did legitimately work his ass off when work was work where you came home dirty and exhausted as a general rule, he really could have benefited from anything like the kinds of therapy and family oriented therapy which is available in more modern times. Back when Murry was in his 20's, psychotherapy was akin to going to the funny farm dragged kicking and yelling by guys in white uniforms. There was a stigma to it on so many levels, I don't think Murry would have seen any value to what he might consider "New Age" therapy and would have rejected it. That was just not how he grew up in his world.

What would his rep be today? Nothing excuses slapping around and punishing your sons to the levels he did. It would probably be where it is right now, unchanged, with maybe less details known if he had lived longer.

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

I would hope that Murry's reputation, real and imagined, will always include the fact that the Beach Boys simply would not exist without him, in many, many ways. For that I will always thank him.

[Lonely Summer]

I would hope that Murry's reputation, real and imagined, will always include the fact that the Beach Boys simply would not exist without him, in many, many ways. For that I will always thank him.

Amen.

[Kid Presentable]

Didnt dennis call and watch boxing with him over the phone in later years. Seems like Ive read multiple times that dennis and him had sort of gotten closer towards the end.

I think that was mentioned in the David Leaf book. And it's possible that Murry would have eventually asked Brian for forgiveness. Probably a death bed plea, but better late than never. I have no doubt in my mind that Murry loved all of his sons, but he grew up in a time when men were supposed to be tough, hard, manly. He was like my dad. My dad has never told me he loves me. When he would come out to see my band play, he might say something complimentary about the other band members, but never me. I've never seen him cry. Cause you know, crying is for wussies.

This post really, really hits home with me.  Same.

[Lonely Summer]

Didnt dennis call and watch boxing with him over the phone in later years. Seems like Ive read multiple times that dennis and him had sort of gotten closer towards the end.

I think that was mentioned in the David Leaf book. And it's possible that Murry would have eventually asked Brian for forgiveness. Probably a death bed plea, but better late than never. I have no doubt in my mind that Murry loved all of his sons, but he grew up in a time when men were supposed to be tough, hard, manly. He was like my dad. My dad has never told me he loves me. When he would come out to see my band play, he might say something complimentary about the other band members, but never me. I've never seen him cry. Cause you know, crying is for wussies.

This post really, really hits home with me.  Same.

Yeah, it was dad's of a certain generation, certain personality type. Thankfully, my mom is a lot like Audree. Easy to talk to, accepting, loving unconditionally.

[Julia]

My dad was nowhere near Murry, not abusive per se but could be really hard on me sometimes and it hurt me. Just stuff like pushing his interests on me, shitting on mine, teasing me, volun-tolding me for stuff, making me get other people a beer or give up my seat at parties, stuff like that. I dont think my dad's a bad person just misguided and flawed.

Now that Im nearly as old as he was when he had me I kinda get it. I couldn't imagine raising a kid and not screwing them up in some way. Also, like Dennis, we've rebuilt our relationship lately as he's mellowed out, recentered his world view and learned to take an interest in what's important to me. Beach Boy music is one of the things we bond over.

I think a lot of people have dad issues to varying degrees, especially men, because the dad's trying to make you as strong as he knows you have to be to make it in a cruel world but it's traumatic to varying degrees to kids growing up, having a parent have to be hard on you. At least that's my interpretation, I'm not a psychologist. I can't help but feel sympathy for Murry despite his serious flaws, and find warmth in the stories of him and Dennis reconnecting later in life. I think Murry was a deeply wounded man from his own upbringing, serious injury, artistic frustration, getting "rejected" (fired) by his own kids, and I can't help but see an overgrown kid who needed love.

I think people are too tough on his compositions too. Im not gonna lie and say I listen to the Colonels Song in my spare time, or that Many Moods is one of my favorite albums, but he was at least a competent songwriter if not particularly gifted. If he were the guy down the street into music showing off these tunes we'd say "hey that's pretty good!" but because it's the abusive father of our heroes, compared to his genius son who's arguably the best American composer of our time, everyone piles on the exaggerated ridicule. That bothers me--I've always had sympathy for the dedicated but lesser artists like Murry and Ed Wood and the like. In general, I think a lot of people let "the crowd" form their opinions for them and once a consensus has been set, it becomes a contest of who can profess the canonical perspective in the snarkiest/funniest way. It's important every now and then to take a step back and say "ok, it's no Citizen Kane or Pet Sounds but it's not THAT bad. If you heard this with no context of who wrote it, you wouldn't be THAT dismissive."

[JK]

This episode of Sail On: The Beach Boys Podcast is devoted to Murry:

https://podcasts.apple.com/se/podcast/7-murry-wilson/id1312969389?i=1000399381294&l=en-GB

PS: Episodes 44-52 are devoted to SMiLE...