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the captain
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« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2016, 10:00:58 AM »

I can see where--and I agree--inserting Trump / politics into seemingly every thread is annoying. Seems like we've had 2-3 Beach Boys-and-Trump threads in the BBs forum, for example. And that does suck.

But I can't imagine how a couple of political threads in the sandbox could possibly be such a big deal, whether the topics there are diverse and the people interesting, or the topics and people repetitive. Most threads on this board strike me as repetitive, boring, and annoying, so I don't bother with them. I can't imagine why others wouldn't be able to do the same thing, again, assuming people keep things where they belong and don't insert [whatever] into every thread.

Anyway, mods, please let us know if you're banning political convos in the sandbox. I hope you don't.
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« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2016, 10:35:09 AM »

@Emily. If I had to see Ernest Hemingway's name plastered on the homepage of this forum everyday for the next four, possibly eight years, I would find it utterly annoying (this is a beach boys forum ffs). And Hemingway isn't even a divisive character (though I'm sure some windbag here could talk ad nauseam about what a sexist, misogynistic, racist scumbag they think he was). Trump will do something people find to be highly idiotic EVERY DAY of his presidency. He tweets seemingly 20 times a day about this or that, and each of those tweets says something that will offend at least 50% of the world population. As we've seen for the last few months (probably more) these tweets and actions get discussed here on a daily basis. Yet this isn't a political forum.

This is a Beach Boys forum, and though it is nice to talk about the weather, our favorite movies, our favorite books - those topics aren't divisive to the point of telling someone to "f*** off" and they aren't talked about daily by the same couple people. And lest someone ridiculously claim that the people opposed to talking politics in the Sandbox can't take disagreement, I'll add that I do know of at least one person who doesn't even like Trump who stopped posting here because they were sick of seeing his name on this forum. Thankfully, I'm sure in part due to the sensitive nature of a couple people here, they didn't make a grand statement before they left (whew, dodged a bullet there).

Might I suggest the that people who admit they rarely post in on-topic discussion (yet post incessantly in off-topic threads) find a forum where they would feel more at home to discuss politics on a daily basis.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2016, 10:43:45 AM »

Might I suggest the that people who admit they rarely post in on-topic discussion (yet post incessantly in off-topic threads) find a forum where they would feel more at home to discuss politics on a daily basis.

Well, then.
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« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2016, 10:51:41 AM »

Might I suggest the that people who admit they rarely post in on-topic discussion (yet post incessantly in off-topic threads) find a forum where they would feel more at home to discuss politics on a daily basis.

Well, then.
That would be about 1/2 of the regular participants.
How about if we ban the word "Trump" from thread names?
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« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2016, 10:53:04 AM »

Politics in sandbox= ok
Politics in main forum- an abomination
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« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2016, 11:12:02 AM »

I agree with a ban on the political talk in the sandbox.

It's a constant stream of .

The Trump topic may seem as legit as cooking or reading to some people here. But if I post about how I made an exquisite chicken parmesan this past weekend I most likely won't be met with a "f*** YOU"
Exactly. I'm not trying to overly censor the board, not by any means. I'm just trying to say that right now, in particular, things are a bit to "hot", given the amount of people that strongly disagree with trump. It's way to easy for political discussion to turn into hateful insults and general bitterness. It's not worth losing board members over.
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« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2016, 11:28:27 AM »

Agreed to an extent. I really don't like seeing it in the main thread at all; the whole thing with Mike and Trump and all that...at first it was a legitimate topic, but now it's going round and round and round so much that every time I see it, I hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEFQTY4hjUk
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^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
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« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2016, 11:29:38 AM »

I am against all kinds of censorship on post content, as long it's civil. Obvious excesses, bullying and trolling are another thing, but the moderators have shown that they can handle that kind of problem.
If this board has survived years of Brian vs Mike, it can survive discussions about Trump, as long as they are in the aptly-named Sandbox.
If someone writes only (civil) political posts in the Sandbox, why shouldn't they be allowed to? One can simply skip over those.

Different is hijacking threads to turn them to politics: that should be a no-no.
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« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2016, 11:42:44 AM »

I've been on a few message boards where any and all discussions on politics and religion are strictly banned, simply because it's waaaaay to easy for somebody to say something to piss off or offend somebody else, thereby causing a thread to derail into name calling and profanity, thereby causing said person(s) to get a permanent ban that really wasn't necessary to begin with.
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« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2016, 11:49:45 AM »

I am against all kinds of censorship on post content, as long it's civil. Obvious excesses, bullying and trolling are another thing, but the moderators have shown that they can handle that kind of problem.
If this board has survived years of Brian vs Mike, it can survive discussions about Trump, as long as they are in the aptly-named Sandbox.
If someone writes only (civil) political posts in the Sandbox, why shouldn't they be allowed to? One can simply skip over those.

Different is hijacking threads to turn them to politics: that should be a no-no.

I guess my concern is that if you look at the 2016 Lame Duck thread there is nearly a new daily topic on something idiotic that Trump did that day, the previous day, or 30 years ago. I can see this continuing for the next 4 to possibly 8 years...because no doubt Trump will do something perceptively idiotic daily for the next 4 to possibly 8 years. And renaming any Trump topic threads "Happy Fun Rainbows thread" is a bandaid on a wound that doesn't even need to be here.

I was PMed by one of the above supporters a little over a year ago asking if I and others would be interested in the formation of a political/religious discussion forum that would be completely separate from Smiley Smile - reason being that the atmosphere here had the potential to breed controversy when discussing such topics....and such topics would possibly be better suited for a separate forum. I fully supported the idea then, and fully support it now. I'm not sure why this is all of a sudden an idea not worth considering.

This place isn't suited for such talk because we're not all here to discuss politics...especially extremely divisive politics.

And I'm not asking people to fully stop posting on this forum. I'm saying that there are forums better suited for political discussion and as long as these discussions continue to be a daily trend on Smiley Smile I don't see the harm in having a separate forum completely removed from Smiley Smile for such talk.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 11:50:56 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2016, 11:57:19 AM »

That was me. The reason for it was less about fear of it not fitting in around here or offending people, but that some of the people here who posted in those threads were really, really stupid and hard to ignore when they posted irrelevant or trollish crap. I never proceeded because it became obvious there wasn't sufficient interest to sustain a board. Why not use an existing forum with the small group of existing, interested people in a few threads in shadowy corners of the board? Seems that if someone doesn't want to talk politics, it would be easy for him or her to ignore the single thread going atm (in the Sandbox, no less) dedicated to it.
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« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2016, 12:02:49 PM »

So looking at the most recent comments at this moment:
1 Main topic
11 meta board matters
12 off-topic music
1 political sandbox.

The board isn't here really for any but the one on-topic post. The rest are because people have found connections here with whom they like to converse on other topics or because some people like to talk about what they think other people on the board should be doing. That latter is every bit as controversial but seems to be a constant presence. I don't suggest banning it. One of the best things about this board is that people can chat about whatever they like between chats about the often-dormant topic of The Beach Boys. If any off-topic conversation that irritated anyone was banned, this would be a ghost town.
Basically you're saying that other people are having a conversation that irritates you so they should stop having the conversation. Other conversations don't irritate you, so they can continue.
If one was king, that would be a basis for decision making, I guess.

Regarding the "f you" thing, that was in a non-sandbox thread and did not involve active participants from the sandbox threads. Should the sandbox thread participants, who are having a friendly conversation, be punished because things got rude in an on-topic thread?
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« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2016, 12:05:20 PM »

I agree with everything rab said above. I couldn't have said it better. I guess my thing is, somebody here is always inevitably going to compare or see a correlation between trump and Mike, and then the endless needless bickering continues for another 30 or so pages.
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« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2016, 12:51:48 PM »

I agree with everything rab said above. I couldn't have said it better. I guess my thing is, somebody here is always inevitably going to compare or see a correlation between trump and Mike, and then the endless needless bickering continues for another 30 or so pages.
Except rab is talking about Sandbox threads in which Mike has never, as far as I know, even brought up so the inevitability is nonexistent in those threads. You and rab are talking about different threads in different places with different people discussing different things in different manners.
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« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2016, 01:23:14 PM »

@Emily. Not sure what your point is listing the most recent comments on this forum. Logically, if one is trying to ascertain the amount of times Trump is mentioned on this forum daily they would come up with an average - not a convenient current snapshot that supports solely your viewpoint.

And discussing matters that pertain to the topics allowed on this forum (and off topic music - as this is a music related forum) is not at all comparable to a discussing ad nauseam a president who is so divisive that one supportive post gets a person banned from this forum by a mod. Keeping in mind I don't at all disagree with what Billy did, but it's an example for how divisive this topic is and how easily people are bothered by it. And yeah, that and the "f*** you" posts were made in the general comments section; But obviously I'm pointing out that it is an extremely "hot" subject as Ringo mentioned. Just because your conversations are 'civil' doesn't mean that they (and the topic titles) aren't bothering the hell out of people who are for or against Trump.

I'll go back to my Hemingway example: If I conversed with fellow poster about Hemingway daily here for the next four years, no doubt people would have every right to get pissed off. Why not move the conversation to a forum that is specifically meant for Ernest Hemingway fans? What is so illogical about that? I started a thread about space/telescopes in the sandbox last year and it was great that I found other people here with the same interest. But I belong to another online community that deals solely with space/telescopes because that is the courteous thing to do. I don't clog up this forum talking about reflecting vs refracting telescopes or what company makes the best moon filter on a daily basis. And telescopes and Hemingway are far less likely to piss people off enough to say "f*** off" at any given time.

It's an extremely divisive topic and there are forums better suited for such talk.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:24:19 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2016, 01:33:46 PM »

I can not imagine getting pissed off because some people wanted to argue in the sandbox about Hemingway for four years. Why would that affect me in any way?
Regarding the recent posts - your problem as stated is anchored on people seeing recent posts and that you find the frequency of recent posts related to Trump irksome. Thus a snapshot of recent posts is pertinent. In the last month there's probably an average of 1 a day in the Sandbox on the topic, so that supports my point as well. There are more on average of "favorites" and "at the moment" posts. I find the frequency of meta-commentary irksome. I also find the "favorites" and "at the moment" threads tiresome. Shall I call for banning the topics?

I won't. I have no desire to control what other people do on the board.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:34:36 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2016, 01:51:38 PM »

In the last month there's probably an average of 1 a day in the Sandbox on the topic, so that supports my point as well.

You've got to be kidding me. Between November 28 and December 28 a total of at least 150 posts on the subject have been made in the sandbox....and that is a very conservative estimate only from the 2016 Lame Duck thread. This doesn't count all the threads that were moved over to the sandbox relating to Donald Trump and other politically related threads where Trump was mentioned. So actually this doesn't support your point at all.

edit: did the math, a total of 198 posts were made in the past month in the Lame Duck thread, making an average of 6 political/Trump posts made a day for the past month, just in that thread alone.

2,022 posts were made in the 2016 election thread alone (this stemmed back to April 2015, but one can't ignore that politics take up a huge swath of posting in the Sandbox).

And given your stance on this issue I don't expect you to understand why daily posting of the same off-topic subject would get on people's nerves. Again, there are forums that are specifically designed for ANY given subject - people should utilize such forums. It's why I don't head over to the most popular Beatles board and start bitching about Mike Love in their sandbox. It doesn't make any sense.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:54:58 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2016, 01:54:35 PM »

Seems that if someone doesn't want to talk politics, it would be easy for him or her to ignore the single thread going atm (in the Sandbox, no less) dedicated to it.

This!

Ye gods. I would have thought that this simple fact was staring everyone in the face...
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« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2016, 02:18:34 PM »

Seems that if someone doesn't want to talk politics, it would be easy for him or her to ignore the single thread going atm (in the Sandbox, no less) dedicated to it.

This!

Ye gods. I would have thought that this simple fact was staring everyone in the face...

Agreed...as long as it stays there.
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^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
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« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2016, 02:42:12 PM »

In the last month there's probably an average of 1 a day in the Sandbox on the topic, so that supports my point as well.

You've got to be kidding me. Between November 28 and December 28 a total of at least 150 posts on the subject have been made in the sandbox....and that is a very conservative estimate only from the 2016 Lame Duck thread. This doesn't count all the threads that were moved over to the sandbox relating to Donald Trump and other politically related threads where Trump was mentioned. So actually this doesn't support your point at all.

edit: did the math, a total of 198 posts were made in the past month in the Lame Duck thread, making an average of 6 political/Trump posts made a day for the past month, just in that thread alone.

2,022 posts were made in the 2016 election thread alone (this stemmed back to April 2015, but one can't ignore that politics take up a huge swath of posting in the Sandbox).

And given your stance on this issue I don't expect you to understand why daily posting of the same off-topic subject would get on people's nerves. Again, there are forums that are specifically designed for ANY given subject - people should utilize such forums. It's why I don't head over to the most popular Beatles board and start bitching about Mike Love in their sandbox. It doesn't make any sense.
So your math indicates there's a lot of interest on this board to posting on politics. So why deny such a popular interest?
I don't think anyone initially came to this board to post about politics, but they enjoy the political discussion they found and it's part of what keeps some people here. Some people stick around to chat about food. Or Beatles. Or other music.
If you were at a Beatles board and two people were talking about Mike Love in a sandbox thread would that be a problem? Trust me, there's been plenty on this board that I find annoying. But I don't feel I am in a position to force other people to only have conversations that don't annoy me.

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« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2016, 02:59:52 PM »

So your initial math, which was completely wrong, indicated that the posts were such low volume that it shouldn't bother anyone. Now that 60 seconds of math proved that the volume is much higher than you claimed, the political posts should stay because there is a lot of interest Huh

A quick scan of the 2016 Lame Duck thread shows that you and Captain are nearly the only two consistently posting about Trump (and at a much higher rate than anyone else). So the interest lies with basically 2 people constantly agreeing with one another about nearly the same issue every day. As for the Mike Love talk on a Beatles forum; if two people there posted about Mike Love 6 times a day every day it would be excruciatingly annoying (especially if their home-page was set up like ours where you can see every post that has recently been made), and I'm sure most on that forum would agree that such talk would need to end.

My point, which I have made painfully obvious in previous posts, is that this Trump talk is a daily constant here...and given the divisiveness of the (off)topic I feel it could find a much better home on another forum.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2016, 03:17:54 PM »

In the last month there's probably an average of 1 a day in the Sandbox on the topic, so that supports my point as well.

You've got to be kidding me. Between November 28 and December 28 a total of at least 150 posts on the subject have been made in the sandbox....and that is a very conservative estimate only from the 2016 Lame Duck thread. This doesn't count all the threads that were moved over to the sandbox relating to Donald Trump and other politically related threads where Trump was mentioned. So actually this doesn't support your point at all.

edit: did the math, a total of 198 posts were made in the past month in the Lame Duck thread, making an average of 6 political/Trump posts made a day for the past month, just in that thread alone.

2,022 posts were made in the 2016 election thread alone (this stemmed back to April 2015, but one can't ignore that politics take up a huge swath of posting in the Sandbox).

And given your stance on this issue I don't expect you to understand why daily posting of the same off-topic subject would get on people's nerves. Again, there are forums that are specifically designed for ANY given subject - people should utilize such forums. It's why I don't head over to the most popular Beatles board and start bitching about Mike Love in their sandbox. It doesn't make any sense.


  We have just emerged from a highly contentious election. Of course activity on the political threads has been high. What goes up will come down. Just ignore if it bothers you.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 03:49:00 PM by Moon Dawg » Logged
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« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2016, 03:25:05 PM »

In the last month there's probably an average of 1 a day in the Sandbox on the topic, so that supports my point as well.

You've got to be kidding me. Between November 28 and December 28 a total of at least 150 posts on the subject have been made in the sandbox....and that is a very conservative estimate only from the 2016 Lame Duck thread. This doesn't count all the threads that were moved over to the sandbox relating to Donald Trump and other politically related threads where Trump was mentioned. So actually this doesn't support your point at all.

edit: did the math, a total of 198 posts were made in the past month in the Lame Duck thread, making an average of 6 political/Trump posts made a day for the past month, just in that thread alone.

2,022 posts were made in the 2016 election thread alone (this stemmed back to April 2015, but one can't ignore that politics take up a huge swath of posting in the Sandbox).

And given your stance on this issue I don't expect you to understand why daily posting of the same off-topic subject would get on people's nerves. Again, there are forums that are specifically designed for ANY given subject - people should utilize such forums. It's why I don't head over to the most popular Beatles board and start bitching about Mike Love in their sandbox. It doesn't make any sense.


  We have just emerged from a highly contentious election. Of course activity on the political threads has been high. What goes up will come down. Just ignore it it bothers you.

A lot of what is being talked about here in the past month is policy. Which is kinda my point: controversial policy will keep rolling out and incessant discussion will just continue. Again, it's like my interest in astronomy: I rarely post here about it, but I belong to an astronomy forum where I'm free to talk about the subject with like-minded people so I don't clog up a forum that has nothing to do with astronomy. I'm beating a very dead horse at this point, so I'll leave it at that.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2016, 03:29:20 PM »


A quick scan of the 2016 Lame Duck thread shows that you and Captain are nearly the only two consistently posting about Trump (and at a much higher rate than anyone else). So the interest lies with basically 2 people constantly agreeing with one another about nearly the same issue every day.

If it's troublesome that Emily and I agree often (which I'd actually want to argue, but I'll just go with it) while talking politics in the politics thread of the Sandbox, why not just not read that thread? (I don't think your characterization of our posts is fair, but whatever.) That's the part that makes no sense to me. I've not started a single political thread in a non-political forum of this board. I've posted in the ones that others started, but usually relatively briefly and not to stir controversy (e.g. Trump's inauguration and whether the BBs played it, where I said basically who gives a f***). There is a Sandbox dedicated to topics irrelevant to the Beach Boys or music. Why do you care who posts what there? If, as Billy suggested, political posting in BBs threads or the BBs forum is to be banned, what's the difference? I'm sorry that I appear to cause you so much grief. I can't imagine why you'd care at all.
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Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Emily
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« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2016, 03:30:45 PM »

So your initial math, which was completely wrong, indicated that the posts were such low volume that it shouldn't bother anyone. Now that 60 seconds of math proved that the volume is much higher than you claimed, the political posts should stay because there is a lot of interest Huh

A quick scan of the 2016 Lame Duck thread shows that you and Captain are nearly the only two consistently posting about Trump (and at a much higher rate than anyone else). So the interest lies with basically 2 people constantly agreeing with one another about nearly the same issue every day. As for the Mike Love talk on a Beatles forum; if two people there posted about Mike Love 6 times a day every day it would be excruciatingly annoying (especially if their home-page was set up like ours where you can see every post that has recently been made), and I'm sure most on that forum would agree that such talk would need to end.

My point, which I have made painfully obvious in previous posts, is that this Trump talk is a daily constant here...and given the divisiveness of the (off)topic I feel it could find a much better home on another forum.
The "favorite" and "at the moment" talk is also a daily thing.
My "initial math" wasn't math. It was a guess based on how much activity I remembered recently. And yeah, either way, it shouldn't be an issue. If it's not many posts, the premise that it's sooooo many posts is wrong - which, 6 posts a day is still not very many. If it's a lot of posts, then there's interest. But either way - why should you care so much what other people are talking about and why should you think you should exert control over it?

I disagree that most people on a Beatle forum with a sandbox in which there was much talk about Mike Love would "agree that such talk would need to end".  Even, listen to yourself. "Such talk would need to end"?  I guess I assume people are more like me and don't think they need to control other people's off-topic talk in off-topic sections and you assume people are like you. We'll never know.
I find calls for banning, which are a constant here, extremely irritating. I've never done it. And I don't call for banning people calling for banning. I just don't have the urge to control people in that way.
But I'm done with this. You want to make the rules, start a board or become a mod. In the meantime, if the mods here ban political discussion, I'll come around when there's some unusual Beach Boys event, but the off-topic talk is why most people who are regularly here are regularly here.  It's in the sandbox and no one has to read it if they don't want.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 03:33:08 PM by Emily » Logged
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