Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: "I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody."

[HeyJude]

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.  

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

But I think, when you're talking about the nature of this board and its members over the last year, the history of those other BB boards *does* add some context. A bunch of the people on both boards came from those boards, and the oldtimers know which of them have been saying the same stuff for all these years, as well as the few who drastically changed their tune for whatever reason, and all the in between.

As I've mentioned many times, I've been going back and forth with Cam for SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN YEARS now, in particular on his often inflammatory anti-Al Jardine tact as well as the "never admit you're wrong" tact when it comes to anything to do with Mike Love. This includes over a DECADE on this board. So when someone says alternate opinions aren't allowed, my tedious near twenty-year slog going back and forth with Cam tells me otherwise in a pretty strong way.

Others I disagree with post here. People ARE allowed to have any opinion they want. If they choose to leave, they choose to leave. If they're banned, it's not because of an opinion, but because some sort of rule was broken.

I've often said that Brian and BB fans can sometimes be too defensive and too forgiving. I think on occasion the defenses of Brian have become excessive and silly. I think on occasion the defense of Brian's concerts or, say, the NPP album, have been a bit over the top. But that's nothing in comparison to the ZILLION times Mike has come out of the woodwork to insult Brian and pretty much everybody else in the band outside of Bruce and Dave.

As a newer fan, you may not be aware that this anti-Brian tact on the part of Mike (and a few of his supporters) has, for whatever reason, been ratcheted up just in the last few years, post-C50. So the occasional overly-defensive attitudes when it comes to Brian do have some context. Some of those folks know what's going on behind the scenes to varying degrees. It's isn't just fans with opinions.

Read Mike's interviews last year about Brian and "Love & Mercy" and Brian's new album. That's a *campaign* against things in my opinion, not just opinions and statements. And I think at least a small segment of "fans", both knowingly and unknowingly, end up being a part of campaigns like that.

[KDS]

TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.

There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 

I'm guessing you never saw the "Cab Board", "Male Ego" board, "Shut Down", "The Smile Shop", etc in their heyday?

The myth that everyone got along and all was peace love and flowers until this board came along is a load of bull. Ask those who were there and maybe those who were banned from those forums too, KDS.

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

And your statement in bold is exactly what you're missing by making these overreaching comments about the boards. If you don't know the history, if you don't have the perspective or context, you don't know what preceded this board and who was involved (and banned) from some of those boards that you've never seen. Consider how many of the "conflicts" were the same actors doing and saying similar things a decade prior to you becoming a fan. It's a shame those boards collapsed and took their archives with them, it gave absolution and whitewash by default. Maybe you'd be able to see more of the background first before judging this or any other board as you've been doing.

It doesn't develop in a vacuum.

If those archives did exist, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and take a look at them.  

But, unfortunately, that's not the case.  There's only the here and now.  And, here and now, this forum isn't a pleasant place to be.  And unfortunately, the lack of certain posters who were banned hasn't changed that.  

I can only go by seeing posters get accused of being on Mike's payroll for not liking Brian's No Pier Pressure album.  Were all those posters were criticized NPP the same troublemakers you allude to?  

[KDS]

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.  

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

But I think, when you're talking about the nature of this board and its members over the last year, the history of those other BB boards *does* add some context. A bunch of the people on both boards came from those boards, and the oldtimers know which of them have been saying the same stuff for all these years, as well as the few who drastically changed their tune for whatever reason, and all the in between.

As I've mentioned many times, I've been going back and forth with Cam for SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN YEARS now, in particular on his often inflammatory anti-Al Jardine tact as well as the "never admit you're wrong" tact when it comes to anything to do with Mike Love. This includes over a DECADE on this board. So when someone says alternate opinions aren't allowed, my tedious near twenty-year slog going back and forth with Cam tells me otherwise in a pretty strong way.

Others I disagree with post here. People ARE allowed to have any opinion they want. If they choose to leave, they choose to leave. If they're banned, it's not because of an opinion, but because some sort of rule was broken.

I've often said that Brian and BB fans can sometimes be too defensive and too forgiving. I think on occasion the defense of Brian have become excessive and silly. I think on occasion the defense of Brian's concert or, say, the NPP album, have been noticeably over the top. But that's a separate issue from the ZILLION times Mike has come out of the woodwork to insult Brian and pretty much everybody else in the band outside of Bruce and Dave.

As a newer fan, you may not be aware that this anti-Brian tact on the part of Mike (and a few of his supporters) has, for whatever reason, been ratcheted up just in the last few years, post-C50. So the occasional overly-defensive attitudes when it comes to Brian do have some context. Some of those folks know what's going on behind the scenes to varying degrees. It's isn't just fans with opinions.

Read Mike's interviews last year about Brian and "Love & Mercy" and Brian's new album. That's a *campaign* against things in my opinion, not just opinions and statements. And I think at least small segment of "fans", both knowingly and unknowingly, end up being a part of campaigns like that.

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

[CenturyDeprived]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on.  

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me.  

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews.  
 

But while some Brian fans ABSOLUTELY unfairly and unjustly trying to diminish some of Mike's admittedly great contributions to the band, one doesn't see Brian himself ever doing it. This contrasts with Mike himself, who takes it upon himself to passive-aggressively put down Brian (with say, the Autotune comment, just to name a few - which of course, ironically, is something Mike himself is guilty of using in his own music!)

This difference in how the two men conduct themselves in public interviews is a major source of why people feel the way they do about Mike. That this is something difficult for anyone to understand or to admit (not referring to you, KDS) is baffling, and is at the center of why the BB camps are like the Middle East of rock and roll. Anyone who can't admit that Mike is being sh*tty and absolutely, laughably hypocritical with the Autotune comment is just his enabling crap behavior with fanboy drooling defense.

[HeyJude]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

[HeyJude]

This difference in how the two men conduct themselves in public interviews is a major source of why people feel the way they do about Mike.

Exactly. Some people just want to ignore the stuff Mike says (a few, very few, actually try and fail to defend his most inflammatory comments), and that's fine. But it's unfair to ignore (or dismiss or minimize) what Mike himself says, but then try to paint fans *commenting on his comments* as the ones who are the a-holes in this equation.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Speaking only for myself. I would NEVER diminish Mike's artistic contributions.  I just have an issue with how's he's been behaving recently

[Shady]

He's too thin skinned for this place.

[HeyJude]

He's too thin skinned for this place.

Perhaps, but I think that has the potential to paint this place as heavier than it actually is. I think of it more as a case (if we're talking about Mr. Lee) of "can dish it out but can't take it", or something along those lines.

[KDS]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

[KDS]

Speaking only for myself. I would NEVER diminish Mike's artistic contributions.  I just have an issue with how's he's been behaving recently

OK, some more common ground, Billy.  That's pretty much how I feel. 

[HeyJude]

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

By that point, though, the user had created a different user name to hide behind (breaking another forum rule in the process) and seemed to be doing little but trolling the place.

We all get pushed to various points reading all sorts of stuff here. The lack of restraint in posting something that vile is indicative not of anybody "pushing" that person, but rather is reflective of that person who posted it. There's no defense or explanation for it in that particular case.

[HeyJude]

I think there's really no more than one or two people who I would say are literally seemingly *incapable* of not exclusively diminishing Mike's artistic contribution to the history of the band.

The most intractable attitudes I've ever seen on this board have come from a select very small group of people who are *incapable* of ever admitting fault or blame in any way concerning Mike and Mike alone.

[guitarfool2002]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the problem, though, is that valid criticism in response to a specific issue (e.g. a Mike interview) is lumped in with "blind hatred."

I also think Mr. Lee doesn't come to such a conversation with much credibility, as he came on the board and egged on what he knew was such a divisive issue. He *starts* a thread about why people don't like Mike Love, and then complains about there being too many posters criticizing Mike? He *literally* asked for it!

That it eventually became obvious that he simply used the board to supplement an article he was writing (rather than doing actual research and reading the board's TEN YEARS of posts to learn more than anything he would ever need to know to write such an article) made the whole thing even more troubling.

A conversation about fan negativity is one worth having. But the guy who stoked the flames, then said pretty nasty stuff about the fan community, and then continued to post here, is *not* someone with credibility to speak to such a conversation.

Agreed.

[Debbie KL]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

[KDS]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

OK, so you are just going to pretend there's not a problem on this board?  I've tried to be civil.  Hey Jude, Debbie, CP, and Billy, I thank you for doing the same.  

Meanwhile, guitarfool, instead of participating in a dialog, you're just telling me to go elsewhere?  Am I reading that correctly?

[KDS]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

[Debbie KL]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

[Emily]

Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

[KDS]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

[JK]

Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

The voice of reason.

And yes, Mike's Beard has irrevocably blotted his copybook.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

Mostly,  as the problem people have left.  Case in point, the 'man' the original post was discussing.  As mentioned previously,  he made this video months ago and then stayed until recently.  Does anybody remember his very first post concerning Mike? Came across like was some kid doing a paper or something as opposed to the f-level wannabe radio punk he really is. He was trolling us the whole time and stirring sh*t the entire time. People like him, and Cam Mott, those are the bad elements.  
Someone wants to defend Mike, go head.  I don't see HOW the past few years are defendable  but whatever. Debate is fine. It's when people act like sh*t stains,  or start doing sh*t behind people's backs to cause sh*t,  well, f*** that noise

[Debbie KL]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

[KDS]

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 

I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.

Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.