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Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Topic: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...' (Read 44555 times)
Emily
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #225 on:
March 26, 2016, 08:44:45 AM »
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on March 26, 2016, 08:40:25 AM
I'd also consider in all seriousness sharing that video "LGA" with some musician friends, preferably flautists or arrangers/composers who have written for flute, and ask them what they think that initial sound heard in the video could be. If I remove myself from it I probably wouldn't say "alto flute" as the first impression.
I think that's a good idea. I think the smooth bend is done with the breath, as you can hear someone doing in the video I posted, but I also hear a tap in there. Just toward the end of the measure.
Edit: Should have relistened just before posting. The tap seems to be toward the beginning of the first measure.
Edit again: so I think what you are considering a smooth bend, I'm considering a very light quick tap. What I'm considering a very slight bend comes after that.
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Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 08:50:24 AM by Emily
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mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #226 on:
March 26, 2016, 08:50:20 AM »
I think it would be really interesting to see what some non BBs musicians think of it but also engineers as I think they are more used to the bleeds/FX etc that recordings can have.
I'd expect any musician to be highly impressed with the track, esp the fade-out, its stunning.
Quote from: Emily on March 26, 2016, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on March 26, 2016, 08:40:25 AM
I'd also consider in all seriousness sharing that video "LGA" with some musician friends, preferably flautists or arrangers/composers who have written for flute, and ask them what they think that initial sound heard in the video could be. If I remove myself from it I probably wouldn't say "alto flute" as the first impression.
I think that's a good idea. I think the smooth bend is done with the breath, as you can hear someone doing in the video I posted, but I also hear a tap in there. Just toward the end of the measure.
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guitarfool2002
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"Barba non facit aliam historici"
Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #227 on:
March 26, 2016, 08:54:35 AM »
Engage some trained ears that exist outside the Beach Boys fan universe, play that specific sound in the LGA video for them, and ask what it is they're hearing...or what is producing that sound. It would go a long way toward stepping outside the bubble and getting some totally fresh ears on it.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #228 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:06:41 AM »
aha - at 1:51 I just noticed what could be a part of the 'voice' in the percussion - can anyone else hear what could be part of the plosive (is that the right word..?) the 'd' there..?
Or is there some string plucking..? Or percussion + strings..?
I can't hear it on the backing track which would mean its from day 2..?
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You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered
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spoons rattling
Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #229 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:14:51 AM »
This is the most fascinatingly dumb thread. I feel like I've learned both something and absolutely nothing from it at the same time.
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guitarfool2002
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"Barba non facit aliam historici"
Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #230 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:20:17 AM »
Quote from: BachelorsDegreeInBullets on March 26, 2016, 10:14:51 AM
This is the most fascinatingly dumb thread. I feel like I've learned both something and absolutely nothing from it at the same time.
If something leads me to revisit a track with a different perspective, perhaps try to hear something new in the familiar, or to step into another person's perspective and try to hear something a different way, I'd consider it worthwhile, to a degree.
And you got to hear perhaps more alto flute examples here in the past 24 hours than perhaps anywhere online besides a flute players' forum.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #231 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:26:36 AM »
hehe - I think its interesting but then if something interests me I can explore it to the nth degree.
I wouldn't sit talking to myself though - if other people stop posting the thread will drop off.
Quote from: BachelorsDegreeInBullets on March 26, 2016, 10:14:51 AM
This is the most fascinatingly dumb thread. I feel like I've learned both something and absolutely nothing from it at the same time.
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SMiLE Brian
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #232 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:27:36 AM »
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on March 26, 2016, 10:20:17 AM
Quote from: BachelorsDegreeInBullets on March 26, 2016, 10:14:51 AM
This is the most fascinatingly dumb thread. I feel like I've learned both something and absolutely nothing from it at the same time.
If something leads me to revisit a track with a different perspective, perhaps try to hear something new in the familiar, or to step into another person's perspective and try to hear something a different way, I'd consider it worthwhile, to a degree.
And you got to hear perhaps more alto flute examples here in the past 24 hours than perhaps anywhere online besides a flute players' forum.
Are you flutefool2002 on there?
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
guitarfool2002
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #233 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:30:15 AM »
Quote from: SMiLE Brian on March 26, 2016, 10:27:36 AM
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on March 26, 2016, 10:20:17 AM
Quote from: BachelorsDegreeInBullets on March 26, 2016, 10:14:51 AM
This is the most fascinatingly dumb thread. I feel like I've learned both something and absolutely nothing from it at the same time.
If something leads me to revisit a track with a different perspective, perhaps try to hear something new in the familiar, or to step into another person's perspective and try to hear something a different way, I'd consider it worthwhile, to a degree.
And you got to hear perhaps more alto flute examples here in the past 24 hours than perhaps anywhere online besides a flute players' forum.
Are you flutefool2002 on there?
I've been exposed!
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
SMiLE Brian
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #234 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:36:23 AM »
This thread spilled the beans!
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
Andrew G. Doe
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The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #235 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:49:11 AM »
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 08:20:39 AM
OK H I may sound pedantic to you but its not for the sake of it.
In these kinds of discussions I've seen it repeated over and over again that logs aren't 100% reliable. Someone could be booked but dropped out of the arrangement - I'm not saying that happened here but its an obvious thing that could happen, no mystery.
I stand to be corrected, but I've always assumed the AFM contracts were drawn up after the session (or possibly during), not before. Thus, if you're on the sheet, chances are you were there.
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guitarfool2002
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"Barba non facit aliam historici"
Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #236 on:
March 26, 2016, 10:55:40 AM »
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on February 13, 2016, 02:04:53 PM
Quote
COMMENT: As I have stated many times c-man, and will again make the statement again. AFM contracts cannot be trusted to be what they claim to represent.
~swd
Quote
Perhaps so...but in
my
research experience, the
majority
of Beach Boys-related AFM contracts that I've uncovered match up perfectly with session tapes that I've been allowed to hear. There are some quite obvious exceptions where a contract was created after-the-fact just to have something to submit, but those are the exceptions, and they're blatantly obvious. In the case of the early '80s stuff I speak of here, interesting assortments of musicians were apparently booked for studio sessions with Brian, under song titles such as "Fly", "Candlesticks", "Up Again", "Why Don't You Tell Me Why" and "Cry Like A Baby". Whether these sessions actually took place or actually resulted in anything being committed to tape, I cannot say, as the tapes apparently do not reside in the Brother vaults as one would expect them to.
COMMENT: Let me phrase this another way . . . You can't construct accurate history of recording sessions by looking at AFM contract sheets.
. . . Anymore than you could figure out what Brian had for his dinner last night by looking at last week's grocery bills of the Wilson household.
~swd
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #237 on:
March 26, 2016, 11:08:27 AM »
So what's that at 1:51 just before the 'voice' comes in..?
Its not on the pad so could it be plucked strings..?
Its sounds a bit percussiony to me bu no percussion on day 2..?
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orange22
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #238 on:
March 26, 2016, 11:34:35 AM »
I'm liking this thread! My thoughts:
The earlier "bend" sound: I'm in agreement with guitarfool that the style of the bend is reminiscent of a guitar in its smoothness, but of course it doesn't sound like a guitar. Is it possible that this is the oboe and the reverb is boosted just for this bit and not the other oboe parts? In either case, the reverb is the main thing here, it's so thick and making the instrument sound so other-worldly that it's nearly impossible to tell what it actually is.
The outro doubled instrument: I'm hearing a woodwind doubled by a string instrument (viola?).
«
Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 11:35:42 AM by orange22
»
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mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #239 on:
March 26, 2016, 11:42:48 AM »
my producer buddy and one or two others thinks strings in the outro - could there be a bit of plucking..?
Quote from: orange22 on March 26, 2016, 11:34:35 AM
I'm liking this thread! My thoughts:
The earlier "bend" sound: I'm in agreement with guitarfool that the style of the bend is reminiscent of a guitar in its smoothness, but of course it doesn't sound like a guitar. Is it possible that this is the oboe and the reverb is boosted just for this bit and not the other oboe parts? In either case, the reverb is the main thing here, it's so thick and making the instrument sound so other-worldly that it's nearly impossible to tell what it actually is.
The outro doubled instrument: I'm hearing a woodwind doubled by a string instrument (viola?).
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orange22
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #240 on:
March 26, 2016, 11:51:16 AM »
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
my producer buddy and one or two others thinks strings in the outro - could there be a bit of plucking..?
There are a few pizzicato/plucked notes before the melody comes in, but I'm hearing bowed/sustained notes on the melody.
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LostArt
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #241 on:
March 26, 2016, 11:59:38 AM »
Quote from: orange22 on March 26, 2016, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
my producer buddy and one or two others thinks strings in the outro - could there be a bit of plucking..?
There are a few pizzicato/plucked notes before the melody comes in, but I'm hearing bowed/sustained notes on the melody.
That's what I'm hearing, too.
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mike moseley
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #242 on:
March 26, 2016, 12:00:22 PM »
yeah but could be plucked in there too in the melody - not clearly audible but adding to presence..? just a thought as I don't think the plucks have been mentioned till now
errr just listened again and not sure
Quote from: orange22 on March 26, 2016, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
my producer buddy and one or two others thinks strings in the outro - could there be a bit of plucking..?
There are a few pizzicato/plucked notes before the melody comes in, but I'm hearing bowed/sustained notes on the melody.
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c-man
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #243 on:
March 26, 2016, 03:20:24 PM »
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 12:00:22 PM
yeah but could be plucked in there too in the melody - not clearly audible but adding to presence..? just a thought as I don't think the plucks have been mentioned till now
errr just listened again and not sure
Quote from: orange22 on March 26, 2016, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: mike moseley on March 26, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
my producer buddy and one or two others thinks strings in the outro - could there be a bit of plucking..?
There are a few pizzicato/plucked notes before the melody comes in, but I'm hearing bowed/sustained notes on the melody.
The strings - at least some of them - are definitely being plucked in the outro. Prior to that, when you hear strings, they are being bowed. And they have nothing to do with the mystery sound that spawned this epic thread.
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c-man
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #244 on:
March 26, 2016, 03:33:06 PM »
guitarfool2000 wrote:
"Reminds me too of the famous WIBN guitar intro. What was it? How was it played? etc. There were discussions about that part being played on a detuned 12-string guitar...to which I objected because not only do I play and own electric 12-string guitars but I also know that detuning a 12-string electric guitar then playing it on either the 15th or 16th fret position versus having it standard tuned and hitting the pattern on the 14th fret...just consider detuning it would be pointless and would actually do more harm to the sound than good because the intonation on those slackened strings would be shot.
Lo and behold, it turns out the part was played by Barney Kessel on that 12-string electric mandolin as pictured in the original PS Sessions booklet, plugged direct into the board as we already knew and treated to Gold Star's heavenly echo chambers.
Why was there instead a Danelectro Bellzouki shown in the L&M studio scene? Simply because a Gibson hybrid electric mandolin like Barney played on the session was not able to be found...and after Barney's family was consulted, it was clear Barney did play that Gibson mandolin on the actual date. But why the Bellzouki? I'll save that for another time and discussion lest I be accused again of derailing threads."
Guess I missed this revelation on whatever thread it appeared - other Craig (or someone else), would you care to point me to it?
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Emily
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #245 on:
March 26, 2016, 05:54:37 PM »
the top two videos on this page show flutes with notes tapped lightly enough that the tap is inaudible:
http://www.altoflute.co.uk/02-pitch/trills-and-tremolos.html
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Cristian Kiper
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
«
Reply #246 on:
March 26, 2016, 09:42:57 PM »
This article mentions how Brian introduced the song at his latest concert:
http://13thfloor.co.nz/reviews/concert-reviews/brian-wilson-civic-theatre-march-26-2016/
”Here’s a song with no voices, just instruments”, he announced preceding the instrumental, Let’s Go Away For Awhile
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c-man
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #247 on:
March 29, 2016, 04:34:41 AM »
Emily - have you had a chance yet to consider the clarinet as the mystery instrument, due to the somewhat sax-like line late in the song? The parts at 1:58 and 2:06...
«
Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 04:35:46 AM by c-man
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c-man
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #248 on:
April 03, 2016, 06:56:01 AM »
I'm sure everyone is sick to death of this thread by now...which is why no new replies have been posted for days...but I'm still hoping for replies to questions I had posed to two of the contributors:
Emily - have you had a chance to decide if you think the "mystery sound" at 1:58 and at 2:06 in the song possibly sounds more like clarinet than alto flute?
guitarfool2000 - where was it determined unequivocally that Barney Kessel played a Gibson hybrid guitar-mandolin rather than a Danelectro Bellzouki on WIBN? It that was in a separate thread, I've been unable to find it with the search function, and would very much like to see it.
Thanks in advance to both of you!
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Scott
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Re: Backing Vox 'Let's go away...'
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Reply #249 on:
April 03, 2016, 07:58:59 AM »
C-man and Guitarfool = I remember the discussions from years ago about the intro to WIBN. It might have been me that mentioned that guys used to detune their acoustic 12's to relieve the neck pressure. I don't know or even think electric 12s needed to do that. But the intro to WIBN sounds like it has very flexible strings, looser than what I would expect on an electric 12. You can hear that in the outtakes where the left hand finger pressure easily pulls the guitar sharp. So it could be a shorter-than-normal scale. What is the scale of a bellzouki? 24.5 inches I believe, which is the same as a Gibson - not exactly short-scale. Or maybe the guitar had high action. I don't own one but I played one briefly at a vintage store and after doing so I thought it
might
be the guitar used.
The hybrid instrument theory was refuted by someone who noted that there doesn't seem to be a pickup on it in the picture from the PS box set. OTOH, I don't know why Mr. Kessel would order a specially made instrument for session work that didn't have a pickup! I've tried to find alternate pictures of him holding that mando but with no success.
I still don't know what guitar/instrument it was
Scott.
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