How much did the public know about Mike's credit snubbing back in the day?

[CenturyDeprived]

I empathize with Mike for being snubbed out of all the credits for songs that he legitimately co-wrote, such as California Girls. I can only imagine if it had actually hit #1 in the US in 1965 how that would have made him go bananas inside even moreso than he probably was.

My questions are:

- Back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, pre-songwriting lawsuit... how much was it public knowledge that Mike co-wrote a good number of major hit songs, but wasn't credited?  Did this information stay an industry secret, and/or a secret just among the band and family members for decades?

- Over the course of decades, how much did (or didn't) Mike make a public stink about his dissatisfaction over these snubs, and why? I was under the impression Mike didn't say a public peep whatsoever about it until the lawsuit, though I may be totally mistaken. Was this due to some lawyers' advice or something?

- What did the other BBs think of the snubbing during the many years prior to the songwriting credits being corrected? Why did they stay silent?

[felipe]

delete

[c-man]

Somewhere there's a quote from 1983 (I think) - Bob Greene's column, I believe - in which Mike discusses "Be True To Your School". He mentions how it was recorded at Gold Star, and says that Brian wrote most of it, but that he (Mike) wrote the "When some loud bragger" part.

In his 1992 Goldmine interview with Ken Sharp, Mike claims that Al would testify to his having written the lyrics to "I Get Around".

Oh, and I was told back around that same time by someone in the know that Brian readily admitted that Mike had written the lyrics to "California Girls".

That's all I know of.

[CenturyDeprived]

Somewhere there's a quote from 1983 (I think) - Bob Greene's column, I believe - in which Mike discusses "Be True To Your School". He mentions how it was recorded at Gold Star, and says that Brian wrote most of it, but that he (Mike) wrote the "When some loud bragger" part.

In his 1992 Goldmine interview with Ken Sharp, Mike claims that Al would testify to his having written the lyrics to "I Get Around".

Oh, and I was told back around that same time by someone in the know that Brian readily admitted that Mike had written the lyrics to "California Girls".

That's all I know of.

Thanks for the info, c-man. It does baffle me how this information was seemingly hardly known by anybody.

While I don't necessarily think history would have been altered all that much, I do think that Mike would possibly have been thought publicly of at least somewhat differently, more positively, and with a little more respect, had his full proper credits been known at the time over the years. I'll bet Mike thinks so too.

That's why it seems odd that there weren't more hints publicly dropped over the years, especially if he was seemingly privately stewing over it. He sure doesn't seem private about what bugs him these days.

[Autotune]

Somewhere there's a quote from 1983 (I think) - Bob Greene's column, I believe - in which Mike discusses "Be True To Your School". He mentions how it was recorded at Gold Star, and says that Brian wrote most of it, but that he (Mike) wrote the "When some loud bragger" part.

In his 1992 Goldmine interview with Ken Sharp, Mike claims that Al would testify to his having written the lyrics to "I Get Around".

Oh, and I was told back around that same time by someone in the know that Brian readily admitted that Mike had written the lyrics to "California Girls".

That's all I know of.

The Cal Girls thing is in the WIBN book also. And the Wilson Project.

[c-man]

Maybe Mike preferred not to air too much inter-band dirty laundry publicly (OK, I know how inane that comment just sounded - these are the friggin' BEACH BOYS, for cryin' out loud! - when did that ever stop 'em before?!). 

[CenturyDeprived]

Maybe Mike preferred not to air too much inter-band dirty laundry publicly (OK, I know how inane that comment just sounded - these are the friggin' BEACH BOYS, for cryin' out loud! - when did that ever stop 'em before?!).  

I could maybe understand that mindset of keeping dirty laundry private for the first decade of the band... but after that, there were still 2 full decades of time during which MUCH dirty laundry was known, and Mike must have felt under appreciated publicly and in the industry, at least to some degree, during that time. Doesn't it seem that he would want people to have known his contributions?

The contradictory thing in that, is that it seems that only ever SINCE the credit lawsuit, which Mike won, which told the world that Mike did in fact contribute to all sorts of songs he got shortchanged on... once that became known, *that's* when he publicly started harping about it, and not before, when one would think he'd be much more irked about nobody actually knowing.  Not that anything makes sense in BB land, but I suspect there must be reasons for this. These are just some random theories, which may be totally off-base, or possibly partially correct, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks:


- Maybe Mike didn't know how to approach mentioning it in interviews pre-lawsuit (in a manner that he felt the public would believe).

- Maybe Mike felt more emboldened to repeatedly remind people of his cowriting contributions after the lawsuit proved his silent anguish had merit

- Maybe Mike consulted with a few lawyers over the decades who said "wait" before mentioning it (or making any sort of public stink) in the event his case would have more merit if first made public in a courtroom.

- Maybe Mike thought Brian would actually correct the error on his own, without a courtroom or lawyers, and that the best way that could happen would be to keep publicly quiet about it, as to not piss off the emotionally challenged guy who had promised to correct things. I do wonder how much Mike believed that Brian would actually, on his own volition, ever fix the error, and how much Brian actually ever thought about doing such.

- Could Mike's silence have been a way of protecting Brian from the public potentially thinking that Brian had screwed up big time by allowing such an injustice to occur? While I think Mike has acted in not a good manner in numerous times over the years, I don't think he's the big bad wolf where it's impossible to conceive he'd ever have such motivations during Brian's darker periods. And maybe that protective feeling evaporated as soon as the WIBN book came out, thus leading to the lawsuit not long thereafter.


All of those theories still don't quite explain how Mike almost completely consistently fought off the urge to make it known (if only for the sake of people knowing the extent of his contributions, and thus granting him more public/industry respect, which he seems to very much crave). I would think that urge alone would have proved insatiable over a period of decades, given his track record for bringing up things like his Back in the USSR contribution ad naseum in recent years/decades, for example. Mike could have made it known, and also gone out of his way to assign blame to Murry and not Brian, thus saving Brian from bad press, if that was stopping Mike from talking about it in every interview he could.

I can't imagine that, pre-lawsuit, Mike didn't have a chip on his shoulder about it (understandably), and I would think that his bandmates would have been fully aware of that chip as well, so I wonder what they thought about the issue, and thought about the unusual silence over it (both their own and Mike's own). Was everyone just afraid to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole? It's a major subject that I cannot imagine was thought of as inconsequential by any BB member.

[Beachlad]

It was pretty common place in the industry in the 50's and 60's not to get credit so maybe that was part of it.  Who know maybe Murray had a side deal with him<I doubt it>, or Maybe after Murray sold Se of Tunes he didn't think the royalties were worth much.

[KDS]

It was pretty common place in the industry in the 50's and 60's not to get credit so maybe that was part of it.  Who know maybe Murray had a side deal with him<I doubt it>, or Maybe after Murray sold Se of Tunes he didn't think the royalties were worth much.

Or in the case of The Beatles, Paul or John would get credit for a song they had little to nothing to do with. 

Had Brian not worked with other writers (ie Usher, Christian), he can Mike could've worked out a songwriting credit deal like Lennon / McCartney. 

[filledeplage]

I empathize with Mike for being snubbed out of all the credits for songs that he legitimately co-wrote, such as California Girls. I can only imagine if it had actually hit #1 in the US in 1965 how that would have made him go bananas inside even moreso than he probably was.

My questions are:

- Back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, pre-songwriting lawsuit... how much was it public knowledge that Mike co-wrote a good number of major hit songs, but wasn't credited?  Did this information stay an industry secret, and/or a secret just among the band and family members for decades?

- Over the course of decades, how much did (or didn't) Mike make a public stink about his dissatisfaction over these snubs, and why? I was under the impression Mike didn't say a public peep whatsoever about it until the lawsuit, though I may be totally mistaken. Was this due to some lawyers' advice or something?

- What did the other BBs think of the snubbing during the many years prior to the songwriting credits being corrected? Why did they stay silent?

CD - It is not a simple answer.  When they started out, they were teenagers, and reportedly the age of contract was 21.  And, it was easier for a stranger as opposed to family get credit.  The family factor is very complicated.  

It seems that fans knew pretty quickly that Mike was the primary lyricist.  That is an easy one.  It would be in-your-face on a 45 rpm single.  People would buy singles until a whole album would be released.  It was not, as it is now, that there is a download you cannot hold in your hot-little-hands.  

And, Murry was not so stupid, not to give a "outsider" lyric credit and royalties.  He had to have known the risk of suit and he was able to muzzle his own family to keep up appearances. Murry made himself a player in the industry, and a force to be reckoned with, albeit through theft, deception and fraud, but that was a pretty corrupt industry, as industries go.  

If you had asked most early 1st and 2nd generation BB fans, who bought 45s, they would probably tell you that it was a Brian Wilson-Mike Love writing operation.  Brian composed the notes and Mike composed the lyrics.  Their names were  on the "swirl."  It was unquestioned as to whom the A-team was.

They did not have to look for the fine print on an LP or not look at all at a digital download.