The Recording of Fun, Fun, Fun and Don't Worry Baby

[guitarfool2002]

Since it was a theater, I'm trying to figure out how a band with a drum kit would be able to track on a sloping floor, never mind the acoustics. Sunset Sound was a former auto garage and had somewhat of an angled floor too, but nothing like a theater.

[adamghost]

Since it was a theater, I'm trying to figure out how a band with a drum kit would be able to track on a sloping floor, never mind the acoustics. Sunset Sound was a former auto garage and had somewhat of an angled floor too, but nothing like a theater.

I'm an old theater buff, and it was always standard operating procedure when converting a theater to other use to level the floor of the auditorium.  I assume this would have taken place in this case as well.

[adamghost]

CMan -

Dave Marks, when he was here, claimed (I don't think for the first time, I think this was also in Stebbins' book) that he did the guitar break on "Don't Worry Baby."  His story is that with the band on tour Brian called him in to do the overdub, even though he was out of the band at that point.  The fact that it's on a discrete overdub track on a bounce of the basic (and presumably done at a later date), and that the only other person recording on the bounce overdub reel (presumably around the same time) is Brian, would tend to back up this story.  Any thoughts on this?  Do we have a confirmation that it was Carl and not David?

Would be good to know, since this is (in my opinion), one of the great guitar "solos" in rock 'n' roll history.  

[adamghost]

Do we know the name of the theater that was converted to the studio?  I can research this; it's my bailiwick.  I might be able to get it from the address, too.

[adamghost]

Actually, the article posted upthread explicitly says they leveled the floor of the theater.

[adamghost]

I tried to do a little bit of research on the theater at 6000 Sunset, and I am a bit puzzled.  All articles about Western refer to it having been the "Radio Center Theater," but cinematreasures (the go-to website for this stuff) has no record of it, and there's really nothing on the 'net about such a place either.  There was a large building two blocks away (on Vine) called the Radio Center Market.  The building still stands, though greatly altered.

Curiously, the only record I've been able to find of the building's use prior to its conversion is as - some sort of a recording studio.  This website (http://randsesotericotr.podbean.com/) has a picture of an acetate disc done in 1947 for a voice reel.  The place that did the acetate is "6000 Sunset Radio Center".  The label of the acetate clearly identifies them as "broadcast and recording studios" - not a theater.

I'm wondering if this wasn't some kind of a complex that wasn't a movie theater per se but a place where live radio (and TV?) broadcasts with a studio audience and such could be done.  The name itself implies that.  Looking at the structure of the building, it looks much more like a film studio building than a traditional movie or stage theater.  It was unusual for movie theaters to have that kind of a sloping roof....likewise, there's no real space in the front of a building for a marquee, and almost every theater in operation after 1935 or so had one, and the building was clearly built after that time.

[c-man]

I tried to do a little bit of research on the theater at 6000 Sunset, and I am a bit puzzled.  All articles about Western refer to it having been the "Radio Center Theater," but cinematreasures (the go-to website for this stuff) has no record of it, and there's really nothing on the 'net about such a place either.  There was a large building two blocks away (on Vine) called the Radio Center Market.  The building still stands, though greatly altered.

Curiously, the only record I've been able to find of the building's use prior to its conversion is as - some sort of a recording studio.  This website (http://randsesotericotr.podbean.com/) has a picture of an acetate disc done in 1947 for a voice reel.  The place that did the acetate is "6000 Sunset Radio Center".  The label of the acetate clearly identifies them as "broadcast and recording studios" - not a theater.

I'm wondering if this wasn't some kind of a complex that wasn't a movie theater per se but a place where live radio (and TV?) broadcasts with a studio audience and such could be done.  The name itself implies that.  Looking at the structure of the building, it looks much more like a film studio building than a traditional movie or stage theater.  It was unusual for movie theaters to have that kind of a sloping roof....likewise, there's no real space in the front of a building for a marquee, and almost every theater in operation after 1935 or so had one, and the building was clearly built after that time.

This matches up with what David said in his 1981 Trouser Press interview: aside from the fact that he incorrectly states "We recorded the Candix stuff at Western United Recorders on Sunset Boulevard", he describes Western as "a little radio soundstage that was used for radio shows." From what he goes on to say, he's clearly describing Studio 3 as "little", but perhaps the much larger Studio 1 was used as a theatre for live radio broadcasts that required an audience, hence the sloped floor for seating.

[c-man]

Since it was a theater, I'm trying to figure out how a band with a drum kit would be able to track on a sloping floor, never mind the acoustics. Sunset Sound was a former auto garage and had somewhat of an angled floor too, but nothing like a theater.

If Studio 1 was in fact used for live big band radio broadcasts, the sloping floor probably ended with a stage and/or orchestra pit, where the band could set up. The acoustics could have been managed with baffles, gobos, and close mic-ing.

[c-man]

CMan -

Dave Marks, when he was here, claimed (I don't think for the first time, I think this was also in Stebbins' book) that he did the guitar break on "Don't Worry Baby."  His story is that with the band on tour Brian called him in to do the overdub, even though he was out of the band at that point.  The fact that it's on a discrete overdub track on a bounce of the basic (and presumably done at a later date), and that the only other person recording on the bounce overdub reel (presumably around the same time) is Brian, would tend to back up this story.  Any thoughts on this?  Do we have a confirmation that it was Carl and not David?

Would be good to know, since this is (in my opinion), one of the great guitar "solos" in rock 'n' roll history.  

Yes, the guitar intro, solo, and outro are "dropped-in" on the same track as Brian's first lead vocal. Do we know if the band toured without both Brian and David at this time? Either way, although there's no way to know for sure from the session tapes, there's enough circumstantial evidence IMO to warrant identifying David as the possible "lead" guitarist on "DWB".

[guitarfool2002]

Lot of info on this page so far - Have to go at them one at a time!

First - I think what we're missing is the timeline of when the construction on the Western studio rooms began, specifically studio 1.

The day the Beach Boys went there for the demos with Chuck, he could not set up a session in the live room of #3 because it was under construction and he deemed it unusable for a session since it wasn't finished. So we know on that exact date that the construction and renovation had put #3's live room out of commission, as of April 1962.

The UA newsletter I posted here states the full renovation of Studio 1 with details - yes, they leveled the floor and poured 'tons' of decomposed granite and concrete in order to do so, along with gutting the entire room down to the bare walls and rebuilding a modern system of acoustic paneling that could be controlled by the engineer.

The question is - In April 1962, had those renovations already been started or was it still basically sitting there as it was when Bill Putnam purchased it from Don Blake?

If we can pinpoint when the renovations were started on Studio 1, and determine if they were already underway as of April 1962, it would help erase the doubts at least I still have about the ability to do a session in such a room. If it were under construction to the degree of renovations described in the newsletter in April 1962, it wouldn't be logical to have a live rock band in there.

If it were still in the state it was in the 50's - with a stage perhaps - then it would make more sense.

I think pinpointing when the full renovations started on Studio 1 would solve this one with more definitive proof. We know Studio 3 was under construction in April '62 to the point where Chuck couldn't use it to record a band...we need to know when the work on Studio 1 was begun.

[LeeDempsey]

If you only have 3 studios, it would make logical sense to keep two of them in some form of operational state at all times, and renovate one at a time.  But of course the variable here is that Putnam also owned United right across the street, and he could route business over there while Western was being renovated.  But I like where this is heading -- that Studio 1 may not have been "under construction" in April of '62 -- just in a state of disrepair, but somewhat usable by a young band, their cost-conscious manager, and their resourceful engineer.  Hopefully we can locate a trade article or other documentation that would confirm this.

Lee

[guitarfool2002]

If you only have 3 studios, it would make logical sense to keep two of them in some form of operational state at all times, and renovate one at a time.  But of course the variable here is that Putnam also owned United right across the street, and he could route business over there while Western was being renovated.  But I like where this is heading -- that Studio 1 may not have been "under construction" in April of '62 -- just in a state of disrepair, but somewhat usable by a young band, their cost-conscious manager, and their resourceful engineer.  Hopefully we can locate a trade article or other documentation that would confirm this.

Lee

That's what I'm hoping too. Unfortunately I think the available UA company newsletters start in 1964. If a date for when the work on Studio 1 was started - and by all accounts posted above and elsewhere it was a massive construction job as a full tear-down and renovation - it would at least be more evidence that Chuck could have set the band up in Studio 1 before the full renovations were started.

The fact all studios had undergone renovations when Putnam bought Western backs up Chuck's memory that Studio 3 wasn't available to use due to construction not being complete.

The wild card is Studio 2. It wasn't as big as Studio 1, but it was a large room.

[adamghost]

CMan -

Dave Marks, when he was here, claimed (I don't think for the first time, I think this was also in Stebbins' book) that he did the guitar break on "Don't Worry Baby."  His story is that with the band on tour Brian called him in to do the overdub, even though he was out of the band at that point.  The fact that it's on a discrete overdub track on a bounce of the basic (and presumably done at a later date), and that the only other person recording on the bounce overdub reel (presumably around the same time) is Brian, would tend to back up this story.  Any thoughts on this?  Do we have a confirmation that it was Carl and not David?

Would be good to know, since this is (in my opinion), one of the great guitar "solos" in rock 'n' roll history.  

Yes, the guitar intro, solo, and outro are "dropped-in" on the same track as Brian's first lead vocal. Do we know if the band toured without both Brian and David at this time? Either way, although there's no way to know for sure from the session tapes, there's enough circumstantial evidence IMO to warrant identifying David as the possible "lead" guitarist on "DWB".

You know, as I think about it, it's also stylistically not the kind of thing Carl would do on lead guitar.  Brian of course could have specified the part, but I could also visualize Carl balking at just playing two chords over and over as the solo.  Brian may not have wanted to even go there.  Might have been easier all 'round just to have David punch in the part if Carl was gone, rather than wait and possibly have a conflict over the part. 

[c-man]

CMan -

Dave Marks, when he was here, claimed (I don't think for the first time, I think this was also in Stebbins' book) that he did the guitar break on "Don't Worry Baby."  His story is that with the band on tour Brian called him in to do the overdub, even though he was out of the band at that point.  The fact that it's on a discrete overdub track on a bounce of the basic (and presumably done at a later date), and that the only other person recording on the bounce overdub reel (presumably around the same time) is Brian, would tend to back up this story.  Any thoughts on this?  Do we have a confirmation that it was Carl and not David?

Would be good to know, since this is (in my opinion), one of the great guitar "solos" in rock 'n' roll history.  

Yes, the guitar intro, solo, and outro are "dropped-in" on the same track as Brian's first lead vocal. Do we know if the band toured without both Brian and David at this time? Either way, although there's no way to know for sure from the session tapes, there's enough circumstantial evidence IMO to warrant identifying David as the possible "lead" guitarist on "DWB".

You know, as I think about it, it's also stylistically not the kind of thing Carl would do on lead guitar.  Brian of course could have specified the part, but I could also visualize Carl balking at just playing two chords over and over as the solo.  Brian may not have wanted to even go there.  Might have been easier all 'round just to have David punch in the part if Carl was gone, rather than wait and possibly have a conflict over the part. 

Also, this is a "solo" that Al played live just about as much as Carl over the years, even when Carl was present - implying this is one Carl didn't mind giving away - kind of like he gave the "Surfin' Safari" solo to Jeff for many years, and he gave the "Barbara Ann" and "Help Me, Rhonda" solos to Ed Carter and others for many years.

[c-man]

If you only have 3 studios, it would make logical sense to keep two of them in some form of operational state at all times, and renovate one at a time.  But of course the variable here is that Putnam also owned United right across the street, and he could route business over there while Western was being renovated.  But I like where this is heading -- that Studio 1 may not have been "under construction" in April of '62 -- just in a state of disrepair, but somewhat usable by a young band, their cost-conscious manager, and their resourceful engineer.  Hopefully we can locate a trade article or other documentation that would confirm this.

Lee

That's what I'm hoping too. Unfortunately I think the available UA company newsletters start in 1964. If a date for when the work on Studio 1 was started - and by all accounts posted above and elsewhere it was a massive construction job as a full tear-down and renovation - it would at least be more evidence that Chuck could have set the band up in Studio 1 before the full renovations were started.

The fact all studios had undergone renovations when Putnam bought Western backs up Chuck's memory that Studio 3 wasn't available to use due to construction not being complete.

The wild card is Studio 2. It wasn't as big as Studio 1, but it was a large room.

Yes, the premier issue (Vol. 1, No. 1) of the United Affiliates Newsletter is dated September '64. It states "The job of renovating is 75% completed with only the large 'Studio One' to be finished. Work is proceeding on this big studio and is scheduled for completion in the fall of '64." Assuming that last bit isn't a typo, this means that work on Studio 1 took a year longer than expected, since it wasn't finished until November '65. I can't imagine them working on it from late '61, or even early '62, through to late '65 - that's an awfully long time - and, since we know they were taking a multi-staged approach to the renovations, and that Studio 3 was not yet fully "ready" when the Boys came knocking in April '62, it's easy to conclude (without knowing with absolute certainty) that the tear-down and build-up of the Studio 1 room didn't commence until sometime after work on Studio 3 was fully completed - meaning, it was probably intact in its "theatre" configuration at the time of the Boys' maiden sessions there.  

https://studioelectronics.biz/newsletters/64sep.pdf

[Micha]

CMan -

Dave Marks, when he was here, claimed (I don't think for the first time, I think this was also in Stebbins' book) that he did the guitar break on "Don't Worry Baby."  His story is that with the band on tour Brian called him in to do the overdub, even though he was out of the band at that point.  The fact that it's on a discrete overdub track on a bounce of the basic (and presumably done at a later date), and that the only other person recording on the bounce overdub reel (presumably around the same time) is Brian, would tend to back up this story.  Any thoughts on this?  Do we have a confirmation that it was Carl and not David?

Would be good to know, since this is (in my opinion), one of the great guitar "solos" in rock 'n' roll history.  

Yes, the guitar intro, solo, and outro are "dropped-in" on the same track as Brian's first lead vocal. Do we know if the band toured without both Brian and David at this time? Either way, although there's no way to know for sure from the session tapes, there's enough circumstantial evidence IMO to warrant identifying David as the possible "lead" guitarist on "DWB".

You know, as I think about it, it's also stylistically not the kind of thing Carl would do on lead guitar.  Brian of course could have specified the part, but I could also visualize Carl balking at just playing two chords over and over as the solo.  Brian may not have wanted to even go there.  Might have been easier all 'round just to have David punch in the part if Carl was gone, rather than wait and possibly have a conflict over the part. 

That "solo" is so basic that Brian could just as well have played it himself had he wanted to.

[the professor]

Yes, I asked this question several pages ago, & I am very happy to see it addressed here however inconclusively. Dave plays that in concert during the reunion shows and it sounds so authentic. Dave says that he played it and I wonder if it can be confirmed.

[c-man]

Yes, I asked this question several pages ago, & I am very happy to see it addressed here however inconclusively. Dave plays that in concert during the reunion shows and it sounds so authentic. Dave says that he played it and I wonder if it can be confirmed.

Not unless someone else in the band (Brian, for instance) confirms it. Due to the nature of that particular overdub, there's no way to tell from the extant tapes. And I've been told that Dave is not absolutely 100% sure of this, but strongly believes it based on his memories of attending the session that included the recording of "Denny's Drums" (Jan. 7th - same day as the recording of the "DWB" basic track), and of being alone in the studio for a guitar overdub with Brian - and thinking, "Brian finally gives me a lead, and that's it?" So, as I said, there's enough circumstantial evidence to warrant it a "strong possibility", or even "likelihood", so that's how I'm crediting it in the sessionography - for now. One other participant backing it up would seal the deal for me. 

[adamghost]

I can imagine any guitar player being disappointed by being given that lead, but seriously - very few guitar breaks tug at the heartstrings more than that one.  Imagine what it would have been like with a "proper" solo - would have totally blown the vibe.  Sometimes less really is more.

[the professor]

I'll bet that's the way Dave feels about it now.

[NHC]

I can imagine any guitar player being disappointed by being given that lead, but seriously - very few guitar breaks tug at the heartstrings more than that one.  Imagine what it would have been like with a "proper" solo - would have totally blown the vibe.  Sometimes less really is more.

Good point. I've played that on stage and it just as powerful as the break on Surfing' Safari that I'd played a couple of tunes earlier.