Good Vibrations Success and Smile's Demise
Cam Mott:
Whoops, mis-post.
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard:
Quote from: filledeplage on January 08, 2016, 04:52:30 PM
Quote from: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 08, 2016, 12:17:12 PM
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on January 08, 2016, 11:22:40 AM
What I will clarify is that Jules' article could have had a much more pointed personal bias, or even a grudge against Brian Wilson, but to his credit as a journalist and writer he didn't make that a part of his account. For the most part, especially the firsthand details about the studio sessions, events like the dinner party and listening sessions, and other events, Jules' account is accurate and lines up with what other participants saw and described. And it's also backed up by the audio proof we got through the years with the sessions.
I say he could have added more of a negative tone than he did because Jules was for a time in the inner circle with Brian. He's in the airport photo, he's prominently featured in the GV promo film, and he's heard on some of the tapes. It's just like he described in the article, he was involved with a lot of the activities as he was doing his piece, and to him, he became more than a reporter getting the story.
What he hints at was something Michael Vosse described later, and clarified. Jules was the one who was barred from attending the recording sessions at some point, and it was Vosse who blocked him, with the excuse given that it was Jules' girlfriend giving off negative vibes. That, according to Vosse and reading between the lines, was more of a red herring and an excuse. Jules' personality began to grate on the circle of friends, not the least of which was Brian himself, and they just got tired of his attitude and wanted him out. I know it's only one snapshot in time, but some of that can be heard on the old bootleg track called "Smile Era Party" where Jules decides to start a game called Lifeboat and it has a weird, negative tone to the whole thing that brings the whole "skit" down.
Again, his observations and reporting of the majority of events he witnessed is actually accurate and detailed, confirmed by others there (and there were not many others there). And credit to Jules, considering he basically got dumped from the inner circle which Vosse confirmed was more to do with him rubbing people the wrong way and not as much to do with his girlfriend's vibes, he still produced an article which ultimately helped boost the legend around Brian and Smile during that time. He could have made it a slam piece on Brian and the others considering they shut him out at some point in time and he was cut off to the point of being barred from the studio. But he didn't.
Exactly. Anderle and Vosse couldve done the same since they were unceremoniously fired, but they kept their tones very reverent of Brian and were really in awe of what he was trying to do even a year later. That, to me, negates any accusations of bias. I mean, yes, everyone is biased in their accounts, but the point is these guys were no more or less than anyone else. The idea that Anderle was VDP's manager would lead me to believe his bias would be to make VDP look as good as possible--possibly at Brian's expense--but he doesnt. He says what their relationship was and what happened, and his account is backed up by Vosse, the parties themselves and later accounts. VDP and Brian both come off looking sympathetic and endearing. He couldve blamed it all on Mike too, especially if he heard of the CE incident. And while he acknowledges there was a lot of fighting, again, so does everyone including Vosse, Siegel, VDP and Brian themselves. But he goes out of his way to say he doesnt blame them, he understand why they didnt like what was happening, and makes them look sympathetic too. The only account that differs on these points it Mike, and hey, speaking of biases. Who has a clear Bias to make themselves out to look good? Especially considering how much praise SMiLE has gotten, and Brian has gotten along with empathy for his condition, he doesnt want to admit to being antagonistic.
Ugh, that Lifeboat tape. Thats the only PS skit Ive only listened to once and never again. I agree, there is a distinctly negative vibe about it. You can tell Brian was pissed/upset, and nobody was really having much fun. I always thought the voice on the recording doing the describing was really obnoxious sounding too--and thats not bias against Siegel because I had no idea who it was until later.
Mujan - from the article..."With that flank covered, Brian was ready to deal with some of the other problems of trying to become hip, the most important of which was how he was going to get in touch with some really hip people. In effect the dinner party at the house was the first social event, and the star of the evening, so far as Brian was concerned was Van Dyke Parks' manager David Anderle, who showed up with a whole group of very hip people.
Elegant, cool and impossibly cunning, Anderle was an artist who somehow found himself in the record business for MGM Records, where he had earned himself a reputation as a genius by purportedly think up the million dollar movie-TV-record offer that briefly lured Bob Dylan to MGM from Columbia until everybody had a change of heart and Dylan decided to go back home to Columbia."
So, everything I cited was directly from Jules' article. Word for word. I think it is from page four or five.
And, the whole issue of "primary sources." The Beach Boys: Brian, Dennis, Carl, Al, Mike, Bruce and David are "principals." They are the "primary" sources.
Others, who are eyewitnesses are "secondary" as far as I am concerned. Sorry to have omitted David in the earlier post. He is an original BB. :thewilsons
I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not doubting Anderle was VDP's manager or Brian wanted to be hip. What I don't agree with you on is this bullying narrative, where the hip crowd came in and forced Brian in a direction he didn't want. Maybe he changed his mind later, but SMiLE was his decision. It was his show all the way. And I'm saying for someone who'd have a vested interest in making VDP look amazing and Brian and/or the other beach boys bad, Anderle didn't. He's incredibly reverent to Brian and the project as well as sympathetic to the Beach Boys. It could've been a "VDP was responsible for everything good about SMiLE, Brian was a drug addled imbecile and the other BBs bullied us out of the picture" type hit piece--which the media would've loved. But it wasn't. I think you're taking this bias complex a bit far.
Also a primary subject in any topic is someone who witnessed something first-hand. So that absolutely means Vosse and Anderle. They were there with Brian on a daily basis watching the album unfold. They are eye witnesses. The other Beach Boys are not. They weren't there until what was it...Nov or Dec...possibly even Jan? I don't recall. But they weren't privy to the day to day operations, the creative process or the Wrecking Crew sessions. Brian didn't tell them his plans when they got back, he said "sing this part" and that's it. They're not good sources on SMiLE. Period. Their input has value, sure, but it's extremely limited because they weren't there for so much of the period. Also, you're neglecting that they have their own biases too. Itd be in their interests to downplay their antagonism and possibly even downplay how great the music was so they don't look like jerks who ruined (or, didn't help with) such an amazing album.
The principles here are Brian and to a lesser extent VDP. Both resent the album and being asked about it and one is a notoriously bad interview with a faulty memory.
Mitchell:
The Smile Party tape may warrant a more in-depth listening because (going on memory) it sounds like Brian is directing the negative vibes (similar to the Vegetables arguments). Like the Mike Love H&V narration, it may behoove further study to confirm Brian's intentions for the recording.
Emily:
Vosse Siegel never claimed Van Dyke Parks introduced Anderle. Guitarfool2002 was pointing out "inconsistencies and outright incorrect facts being posted in this thread," not in the Siegel article. That one of those errors of fact was born out of a misreading of Siegel's article does not discredit Siegel.
The only error pointed out so far in Siegel's story is that he mistakes Carol Kaye as a percussionist. Big deal(TM-RangeRoverA1).
Also, "primary source" and "secondary source" are terms of art with specific meanings. If one chooses to use them otherwise, that's of course their choice, but it might be confusing to their readers.
edit - in the original post I accidentally said "Vosse" every time I meant "Siegel"
Andrew G. Doe:
Quote from: filledeplage on January 09, 2016, 08:57:26 AM
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on January 09, 2016, 08:52:37 AM
Not Kaye: she only played guitar or bass.
OK - then is it known about whom Jules is speaking?
And if there was a female percussionist, would that mean that Hal Blaine was not there?
And this is the description of the actual (or an actual) percussionist?
Maybe non drummer, on bells, or whatever?
The personnel are listed online. It's possible Siegel is mistaking Kaye for someone else.
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