Never Learn Not to Love - lyrical rewriting by Denny

[CenturyDeprived]

Did Denny rewrite the song's lyrics entirely on his own? Or did any uncredited (non-Manson) cowriters possibly assist? I could easily see any other people who might have been associated with that song not wanting to have been credited.

I've always found the double negative in the song's title fascinating and clever, yet quite odd. I think the lyrics sound a bit better perhaps, than the concurrently-released Be With Me.  

I'm certain if this song had no Manson connection, we'd have had vocals-only and instrumental-only versions officially released by now on compilations, MIC, etc. It's *such* a solid track, a great effort by Denny, that it deserves to be better appreciated by the band from an archiving/alternate versions standpoint, yet I of course totally understand why the Manson factor undoubtedly must hinder that.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Very likely, seeing as the released version isn't very much different from the Manson original.

[CenturyDeprived]

Very likely, seeing as the released version isn't very much different from the Manson original.

Embarrassed to say I hadn't looked back at the Manson original Cease to Exist lyrics when I originally posted the question; I was going from memory. I thought more tweaking had been done to NLNTL, but I guess it is pretty darn close to CTE now that I went back to check.

Pretty girl, pretty, pretty girl
Cease to Exist
Just come and say you love me
Give up your world
C'mon you can see
I'm your kind, I'm your kind
You can see
Walk on, walk on
I love you pretty girl
My life is yours and
You can have my world
Never had a lesson
I ever learned
But I know we all get our turn
I love you
Submission is a gift
Go on, give it to your brother
Love and understanding is for one another
I'm your kind, I'm your kind
I'm your mind
I'm your brother
I never had a lesson I ever learned
But I know we all get our turn
And I love you
Never learned not to love you
I never learned

I wonder if Brian may have given an assist in vocal arranging to the track. Wouldn't surprise me, as Brian gave Denny an uncredited assist on Little Bird.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Re: "Little Bird"... wasn't it the other way around  ?

[The_Beach]

i thought dennis only changed a word and the melody! Here is Charles Manson singing Cease to Exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuMydGEaYoY

Sounds pretty much the same to me.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

NLNTL is an incredible production by Dennis - just an awesome sounding track. It's such a shame that it doesn't - and likely never will - receive the recognition it deserves in that respect. Adam Webb got it right in Dumb Angel when he said that the artistic triple whammy of NLNTL/Our Prayer/Cabinessence at the end of 20/20 demonstrated the direction that the BB's music could and should have gone in...

[CenturyDeprived]

NLNTL is an incredible production by Dennis - just an awesome sounding track. It's such a shame that it doesn't - and likely never will - receive the recognition it deserves in that respect. Adam Webb got it right in Dumb Angel when he said that the artistic triple whammy of NLNTL/Our Prayer/Cabinessence at the end of 20/20 demonstrated the direction that the BB's music could and should have gone in...

Totally agreed.

When did it become public knowledge that this track had a very infamous uncredited co-writer? I have to imagine that pre-internet, it was something of a big secret to most people for a good number of years. I can't imagine what it must have been like back then for Denny fans to discover it was cowritten by Manson.

I remember reading that Be With Me may have also been an uncredited Manson co-write... was that theory totally debunked?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The jury's still out on "Be With Me". My take is, could well be. It was once similarly rumoured that "All I Want To Do" was a Manson song, but Stevie K. soon put me straight on that score.

I was aware  "NLNTL" was a Manson song by the late seventies.

[KDS]

NLNTL is an incredible production by Dennis - just an awesome sounding track. It's such a shame that it doesn't - and likely never will - receive the recognition it deserves in that respect. Adam Webb got it right in Dumb Angel when he said that the artistic triple whammy of NLNTL/Our Prayer/Cabinessence at the end of 20/20 demonstrated the direction that the BB's music could and should have gone in...

Unfortunately, this can be said of a lot of the music The Beach Boys released from 1967-1973.  They released so much great music during this time period and there was stuff left in the vaults that would've been singles on later albums. 

[CenturyDeprived]

The jury's still out on "Be With Me". My take is, could well be. 

That's interesting to hear. May I ask, if it is something that can be revealed publicly... what evidence/reason is there that anyone has to suspect Manson songwriting involvement on Be With Me? When/where did this being a possibility originate?

[The_Beach]

The jury's still out on "Be With Me". My take is, could well be. 

That's interesting to hear. May I ask, if it is something that can be revealed publicly... what evidence/reason is there that anyone has to suspect Manson songwriting involvement on Be With Me? When/where did this being a possibility originate?

That is a good question how did that song get in the mix of Manson possibly wrote some lyrics to that song?